Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[ga♥]

guyz, i feel muh party is weak as shit.
Current composition:
Valerie (stalwart def 2 - Tower shield specialist 7) - melee
Amiri (9 barb) - melee
Jaethal (9 inq) - melee
Harrim (9 cleric) - melee
Octavia (4 arcane trickster - 2 rogue - 3 wiz) - ranged
me (9 wiz - conjurer) - ranged

I have to spell buff basically everyfight, and without death's door (aka noob mode) i would still be liv2 trying to kill mites and kobolds.

How do I make Jaethal AND Harrim better at staying alive? Someone already told me to try getting Dazzling display on Jaethal, but I am not sure...also does Mixing fighter levels on Harrim make sense??

Any advise on Amiri too as well plz. She's a paper tiger too.

 

[hell bovine]

My personal observation, though so far I've tried only normal and challenging (before it got hotfixed) is that just like in Baldur's Gate you don't want too many melee guys. Pathfinding isn't as bad, but sometimes they would get stuck in the 'should I go right or left' dance, wasting time when they should be fighting. So just drop either the barbarian or the undead elf, and get mr. ranger danger or a hireling archer. You could even swap both for archers.

Edit: You could even drop both and get an alchemist. Mine was not very optimized, but still very useful because:
a) the infusion feat lets you cast their spells on other party members,
b) precise bomb turns their bombs into party friendly aoes.

Btw, someone on reddit reported that if you use (communal) delay poison, it makes your party immune to stinking cloud and cloudkill - can anyone confirm?

 

[Luckmann]

You can also turn Linzi into BARBARIAN

Spoiler

I mean, she has enough DEX for TWF & Finesse right and there are enough Agile weapons in game to use.

I'm sorry, you seem to have spelled Armored Hulk wrong.

 

[Shadenuat]

I say Mad Dog - Linzi riding little mammoth casting spells from its back would be best thing.

.....I want mount combat rules now

 

[Gregz]

.....I want mount combat rules now

Poor bastards still have 2 years worth of bugs to squash, maybe after that an heroic mod team will introduce this feature.

 

[panda]

What do you make of this Linzi build? https://fextralife.com/pathfinder-kingmaker-builds-linzi-the-bard/

Cool site, they recomend trip for 9 INT fighter with 14 base STR.

Any advise on Amiri too as well plz. She's a paper tiger too.

Just replace Amiri with negro. He deals 3 times more damage and stays alive in process.

 

[Shadenuat]

Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
my mother was a drow and my father was werewolf
hurr

 

[Yosharian]

Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
hurr

Wizard: I have 200 spells in my spellbook, most of them are useless and I don't have the right one memorized for this situation that I couldn't predict would happen

Sorcerer: I picked all the best spells from every level and I have more of them per day, and I get to apply metamagic on the fly

 

[Shadenuat]

Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something

 

[Yosharian]

Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something

Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Anyway with the limited spell count that the game has Sorc is even better than it normally is

I mean, there's like 5 level 9 spells to choose from and half of them are bad

 

[J1M]

Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something

Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Anyway with the limited spell count that the game has Sorc is even better than it normally is

I mean, there's like 5 level 9 spells to choose from and half of them are bad

Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.

 

[Yosharian]

Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something

Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Anyway with the limited spell count that the game has Sorc is even better than it normally is

I mean, there's like 5 level 9 spells to choose from and half of them are bad

Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.

Arcane Trickster?

Hmmm. Maybe. But probably not, Rogue gets nothing from Charisma.

 

[Urthor]

I mean if you are on your third playthrough and you know *exactly* which of the spells you want to pick for Sorcerer then sorcerer is probably slightly better than wizard.


Considering this game leaves out a bunch of spells from tabletop, some skills are dramatically more or less useful or different (Stoneskin for example is 10x as good because there's way more gold per level to fund diamond dusts) doing a utility sorceror (blaster sorc is diff) on your first playthrough sounds rubbsih.

 

[Ruchy]

Is a two weapon Paladin worth it? or should they either be sword and board or two handers

 

[hell bovine]

Nope, wizords are best

And sorcerers are fairytail anime trash
lol look at me 20 subclasses I can have claws ears tails and wings
hurr

I don't have the right one memorized for this situation that I couldn't predict would happen

To be fair, playing early game I haven't had this happen with Octavia, leveling is slow enough that you notice when spells become obsolete as you go. Blasting at low levels seemed inefficient compared to alchemist's aoe spam anyway.

What was problematic was scroll availability, but it wouldn't surprise me if that was yet again content to be "patched in". That, and the bugs, especially in some sorcerer bloodlines.

 

[Shadenuat]

Lol, "best spells"
You play MMO or something

Nani

There's clearly good and bad spells

Best spells are those carefully fine tuned for particular encounter

Sorcerers

Bleh

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.

I only played over the weekend (finished ch1 with a 2h fighter) but from what I've seen so far - if you want to make a "pure" wizard who will not only buff/summon but also nuke stuff without having to go "nova" and then rest afterwards I'd do the following:
Lvl 1 alchemist, vivisectionist
You gain: free +4dex, +2dodge AC mutagen for 10min, both effects stack with everything else and 1d6 sneak dice, take accomplished sneakattacker for another 1d6 and you have enough sneak dice to qualify for Arcane Trickster, add to that a bunch of lvl1 spell slots where you can shove some stuff where caster level doesn't matter like True Strike for instance. Then take 5 Wizard levels until you qualify for AT.

You end up with plenty of sneak dice that you can apply per ray of frost cantrip all day long, when you need bigger cannons, scorching ray, empowered scorching ray, hellfire ray etc (basically every spell with touch attack) can apply sneak dice and deal additional damages to vital organs, Sense Vitals lvl2 spell can add another 5d6 sneak eventually. As far as I can tell you can sneak attack even Undead in this game.
The first feats should be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to make your rays hit.

As far as sorcerers go, I assume a similar strategy can work with Sorcs too, although vivisectionist synergizes better with INT based casters (though there is a INT based Sorc too). One level of Vivisectionist gives you better things than 1 lvl of Rogue imo.
I guess draconic bloodlines offer some good bonuses so even a CHA based Sorc can work well, either take INT 11 or 12 or ignore INT for you don't need those alchemist spells anyway.

 

[Yosharian]

Good enough that you'd make an arcane trickster with a sorc template? The Rogue1/Wizard19 route looks pretty good.

I only played over the weekend (finished ch1 with a 2h fighter) but from what I've seen so far - if you want to make a "pure" wizard who will not only buff/summon but also nuke stuff without having to go "nova" and then rest afterwards I'd do the following:
Lvl 1 alchemist, vivisectionist
You gain: free +4dex, +2dodge AC mutagen for 10min, both effects stack with everything else and 1d6 sneak dice, take accomplished sneakattacker for another 1d6 and you have enough sneak dice to qualify for Arcane Trickster, add to that a bunch of lvl1 spell slots where you can shove some stuff where caster level doesn't matter like True Strike for instance. Then take 5 Wizard levels until you qualify for AT.

You end up with plenty of sneak dice that you can apply per ray of frost cantrip all day long, when you need bigger cannons, scorching ray, empowered scorching ray, hellfire ray etc (basically every spell with touch attack) can apply sneak dice and deal additional damages to vital organs, Sense Vitals lvl2 spell can add another 5d6 sneak eventually. As far as I can tell you can sneak attack even Undead in this game.
The first feats should be Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot to make your rays hit.

As far as sorcerers go, I assume a similar strategy can work with Sorcs too, although vivisectionist synergizes better with INT based casters (though there is a INT based Sorc too). One level of Vivisectionist gives you better things than 1 lvl of Rogue imo.
I guess draconic bloodlines offer some good bonuses so even a CHA based Sorc can work well, either take INT 11 or 12 or ignore INT for you don't need those alchemist spells anyway.

Bear in mind that the Natural AC bonus you get from Mutagen isn't supposed to stack with other Natural AC bonuses you can get from spells. It is stacking right now, though.

Also a level 1 Alchemist's Mutagen only last ten minutes. Meh. Also, the ability score penalty from Mutagen interferes with your casting, if it reduces your main casting score.

 

[Shadenuat]

except that +4 dex mutagen lowers your WIS

you going to beat those 3 assassins in prologue soon?

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Also a level 1 Alchemist's Mutagen only last ten minutes. Meh.

10 min is a plenty for any boss fight or for a number of difficult encounters. And it's still better than anything the first level of Rogue gives you unless you require Weapon Finesse for a melee char.
1 level vivisectionist seems to me like a no-brainer class dip for pretty much any melee char or ranged char who doesn't require WIS, especially at low levels that buff is huge.

Also, the ability score penalty from Mutagen interferes with your casting, if it reduces your main casting score.

The DEX mutagen doesn't reduce your casting stat which is INT.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

you going to beat those 3 assassins in prologue soon?

Any tips for making it thru the prologue with a wizard featuring the FULL POWER of the 3 spells you got memorized?
2h fighter was not an issue because typically I just clicked on something and one Great Cleve later they were all dead.

 

[Shadenuat]

I was actually asking our lovely theorycrafter there

I would actually say as a spellcaster it is a lot easier, because you do not depend on RNG. At least for me on Hard it felt simplier, as our trio of master Daze'rs of me, Linzi and purple toad could reliably turn off multiple enemies, and magic missiles/force missiles (Evoker gets what, 8 of them?) do not depend on RNG/armor class.

I have a separate Unfair playthrough as paladin dwarf just for when I want to actually feel miserable (fucking Smite, does it ever work? even banditos are all NOT evil); on the other hand Wizard (especially Controller) is a god early game.

FULL POWER of the 3 spells

pick Bonded Object for +1 spell.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

pick Bonded Object for +1 spell.

You think bonded object is better than familiar in the long run? Yeah, changing your spellbook and immediately recalling the new spell, or recalling any valuable high level spell seems to get more and more worthwhile the higher level you become.

 

[Shadenuat]

I like it more for sure.

Also, it effectively means every spell you memorize has a copy. You did not memorize fireball and confusion, you memorized possible 2 fireballs and 1 confusion, or 1 fireball and 2 confusions.

I find it just very handy.

 

[Smashing Axe]

Bear in mind that the Natural AC bonus you get from Mutagen isn't supposed to stack with other Natural AC bonuses you can get from spells. It is stacking right now, though.

Actually, if you go by PnP rules, the alchemist's natural armour bonus does stack with the natural AC bonuses you receive from spells and items. The distinction is that spells and items give a natural armour enhancement bonus, where the alchemist's mutagen ability just gives a natural armour bonus.