Pathfinder 2e vs. D&D 5e

[deuxhero]

SRD is up. This system is a mess.
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx

 

[Morblot]

This system is a mess.

What a shock.

 

[nikolokolus]

 

[Andhaira]

Yeah, everything ascends every level, and that's without including the bonuses from proficiency.

So a level 20 fighter with 14 DEX in peasant clothes has AC of 40 (10+ 2 Dex + 20 level + 8 proficiency in unarmored). Note this is before taking into account magic armor, items, spells, etc.

 

[Morblot]

I wonder if they changed anything worth mentioning from the playtest. Which, as I've said countless times, was a fucking disaster.

 

[Tacgnol]

I wonder if they changed anything worth mentioning from the playtest. Which, as I've said countless times, was a fucking disaster.

The designers had an extremely unhelpful attitude towards feedback shared from the playtest, so I'd be shocked if they've actually improved many things.

One minor improvement I've noticed, they dropped the dumb barbarian rage 2 rounds in, 1 round out. They just made it a flat one minute rage and then can't rage again for a minute after.

 

[Andhaira]

The art is pure shit. Does not hold up to any other AAA companies artwork in the least.

It still shocks me after the whole debacle with D&D4e how much influence they took from it. Its uncanny.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

I really wish Dreamscarred Press picks up DnD 3.75e (aka Pathfinder 1e) and builds it own robust system. It would be a blast to have a cRPG with that.

 

[deuxhero]

Yeah, everything ascends every level, and that's without including the bonuses from proficiency.

So a level 20 fighter with 14 DEX in peasant clothes has AC of 40 (10+ 2 Dex + 20 level + 8 proficiency in unarmored). Note this is before taking into account magic armor, items, spells, etc.

Honestly that's the least of the problems. I have no problem believing a legendary fighter can dodge really well. Being able to dodge better and make attacks that are more efficient/better aimed at vitals as you level up is no weirder than getting more accurate as you level up.

I really wish Dreamscarred Press picks up DnD 3.75e (aka Pathfinder 1e) and builds it own robust system. It would be a blast to have a cRPG with that.

Purple Duck Games already has.

 

[Night Goat]

I've acquired the core book, and...this thing is almost 650 pages long. It's an overly complex monstrosity, such that the even the thought of reading enough to just make a character is exhausting. I have no idea how someone could have looked at the first edition of Pathfinder and thought, "this needs to be made vastly more complicated", but that's what happened.

 

[Raghar]

See? More complicated, would change into even more complicated. Until they would scream kobolds are the same as ogres, and dance together around baked body of some halfling.

Frankly they don't even try to simulate different species, and from what I seen they try to pretend that different behavior between species doesn't exist. Original RPG concept was about simulation by few simple rules. They are trying to do a franchise derived from another franchise.

 

[deuxhero]

Dropping Take Ten is the biggest sign they have no fucking clue what they're doing.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

deuxhero
whhich is?

 

[deuxhero]

The ability to assume a roll of ten if doing a task without significant pressure (read: out of combat). It saves everyone's time, prevents failures that make no sense and adds consistency. There's not a single reason to remove it.

 

[Norfleet]

Honestly that's the least of the problems. I have no problem believing a legendary fighter can dodge really well. Being able to dodge better and make attacks that are more efficient/better aimed at vitals as you level up is no weirder than getting more accurate as you level up.

Dodge really well, survive orbital HANO insertion, withstand an antitank missile to the face...

 

[deuxhero]

That's more an issue with HP than anything. d20 Modern's "massive damage is your con score" and Saga Edition's wound threshold system (take more than 10+fort save in one hit and you get a wound) both show there are ways of addressing that without rewriting the whole thing.

 

[catfood]

I'm so glad I jumped off the Paizo boat early in PF's life cycle. Thank God for OSR.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Where the fuck are races... wait... ancestry...

Is this a PC term for "race"?

 

[Raghar]

Where the fuck are races... wait... ancestry...

Is this a PC term for "race"?

From what I seen, main author thinks races are too racist. From what I heard from him when he streamed at Twitch, he's bit scared of idea of different species fighting between each other for territory and other stuff.

Then I seen the Twitch launch discussion, where there were everyone in blue shirts, and with a woman with one half of head had hair shaved off. And I'm not sure about technical skills of main team.

 

[Arrowgrab]

The ability to assume a roll of ten if doing a task without significant pressure (read: out of combat). It saves everyone's time, prevents failures that make no sense and adds consistency. There's not a single reason to remove it.

See, this sort of logic is the problem with 3rd edition. (Mind you, deuxhero, I'm not picking a fight, just using this particular point to demonstrate the issue.)

If there's a situation where failure doesn't make sense, then the DM should simply not ask for a roll, and should just say "okay, you succeed, because that's what makes sense". But since WotC was married to the idea of making everything as complicated and roll-heavy as possible, they couldn't have that. No, instead of cutting out a nonsensical roll, they kept it in, and just added yet another unnecessary rule to somehow still make it work.

 

[Scroo]

Gender and Pronouns
Source Core Rulebook pg. 29
Characters of all genders are equally likely to become adventurers. Record your character’s gender, if applicable, and their pronouns on the third page of the character sheet.

Their... their pronouns? Has the great xirring of our time arrived Pen and Paper?! What is this

 

[Azalin]

What did you expect,when leftard sjw propaganda is in everything these days pnp wasn't going to stay unaffected,expect adventures where the villains are all white males while heroes and npcs are only non human non binary characters and fight razism if that isn't the case already

 

[deuxhero]

The ability to assume a roll of ten if doing a task without significant pressure (read: out of combat). It saves everyone's time, prevents failures that make no sense and adds consistency. There's not a single reason to remove it.

See, this sort of logic is the problem with 3rd edition. (Mind you, deuxhero, I'm not picking a fight, just using this particular point to demonstrate the issue.)

If there's a situation where failure doesn't make sense, then the DM should simply not ask for a roll, and should just say "okay, you succeed, because that's what makes sense". But since WotC was married to the idea of making everything as complicated and roll-heavy as possible, they couldn't have that. No, instead of cutting out a nonsensical roll, they kept it in, and just added yet another unnecessary rule to somehow still make it work.

The problem is the DM needs some way of knowing what is a trivial check, which take ten accomplishes by saying its any less than or equal to 10+your modifiers, and there's often scaling results (knowledge checks often come a format where they give extra info every 5 you beat the base check by).

 

[Arrowgrab]

The problem is the DM needs some way of knowing what is a trivial check, which take ten accomplishes by saying its any less than or equal to 10+your modifiers, and there's often scaling results (knowledge checks often come a format where they give extra info every 5 you beat the base check by).

Yes, but there's already a way for the DM to know what counts as trivial difficulty: being at least a little bit intelligent and learned.

Well, and genre-savvy. Quickly climbing up a ladder while carrying a heavy load is NOT trivial in a gritty survival horror game when you have a horde of zombies below you. It IS trivial in a wire-fu wuxia game where running on a lake's surface and kicking a dozen flying arrows off target is the "usual" challenge.

The thing is, if a DM is not smart and genre-savvy enough to know what should count as trivial within the internal logic of the genre/game, than he won't be able to run an enjoyable game, not even if the rulebook holds his hand and tells him this one particular thing.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What did you expect,when leftard sjw propaganda is in everything these days pnp wasn't going to stay unaffected,expect adventures where the villains are all white males while heroes and npcs are only non human non binary characters and fight razism if that isn't the case already

pnp has been this way for a long time, have you people been living under a rock?