Incline OSR Games - Official thread

[Morblot]

Way to go, r/OSR:

Announcement: starting now, there will be a ban on promoting any Zak S content.

Spoiler

Folks,

The circumstances which led me to ban Zak Smith/Zak Sabbath/Zak S from this subreddit now impel me to enact a ban on mentioning his works. I had (perhaps naïvely) believed that a user ban would be enough, but it seems like he has enough sock puppet accounts or minions to keep his presence alive here, especially as he continues to produce new content. Therefore, posts promoting him or his products will be removed; repeat posters will be banned. Comments mentioning him will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but may be removed and might also result in a user ban.

To be clear: I do not know for a fact that the allegations of abuse against him are true, but they come from multiple sources, and to my knowledge not all of them have been refuted (lawsuits notwithstanding). Even if they had all been disproven, though, the toxic manner of interaction which he and others allied with him employ on other fora is not welcome here.

Also to be clear: this is not censorship. This is the exercise of editorial control. Anyone who is upset by this decision is free to post elsewhere, perhaps in a subreddit of their own making. I made this one, and wish to promote a healthier style of interaction between members.

I do not like taking this action. I don't like restricting discussion, and I don't like singling out one person for censure. But I believe, in the end, it will be best for this community, and if the allegations are true, it is the only respectful decision I can make for the women involved.

This post will be locked, as the decision is not up for discussion.

Be good people.

Redditors gonna reddit.

 

[Curratum]

OSRIC, more like Old School Reunion of Intolerable Cucks.

No wonder, though. I had relatively close interactions with a couple of other OSR game authors, both of them were flaming, horrible, insufferable SJW fucks.

However, I am able to distinguish between the person and their work, and can say that both of them produced some of the finest rule modifications and ideas I've seen in tabletop.

 

[Casual Hero]

Is the single book OSE compilation worth it?

Single best RPG book I have ever read, for the best RPG system I have ever played.

 

[catfood]

I had relatively close interactions with a couple of other OSR game authors, both of them were flaming, horrible, insufferable SJW fucks.

Who?

 

[Curratum]

I had relatively close interactions with a couple of other OSR game authors, both of them were flaming, horrible, insufferable SJW fucks.

Who?

Would rather not mention names. They're not huge and particularly popular anyway.

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Way to go, r/OSR:

Announcement: starting now, there will be a ban on promoting any Zak S content.

Spoiler

Folks,

The circumstances which led me to ban Zak Smith/Zak Sabbath/Zak S from this subreddit now impel me to enact a ban on mentioning his works. I had (perhaps naïvely) believed that a user ban would be enough, but it seems like he has enough sock puppet accounts or minions to keep his presence alive here, especially as he continues to produce new content. Therefore, posts promoting him or his products will be removed; repeat posters will be banned. Comments mentioning him will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but may be removed and might also result in a user ban.

To be clear: I do not know for a fact that the allegations of abuse against him are true, but they come from multiple sources, and to my knowledge not all of them have been refuted (lawsuits notwithstanding). Even if they had all been disproven, though, the toxic manner of interaction which he and others allied with him employ on other fora is not welcome here.

Also to be clear: this is not censorship. This is the exercise of editorial control. Anyone who is upset by this decision is free to post elsewhere, perhaps in a subreddit of their own making. I made this one, and wish to promote a healthier style of interaction between members.

I do not like taking this action. I don't like restricting discussion, and I don't like singling out one person for censure. But I believe, in the end, it will be best for this community, and if the allegations are true, it is the only respectful decision I can make for the women involved.

This post will be locked, as the decision is not up for discussion.

Be good people.

Redditors gonna reddit.

aka "I'm not censoring but I'm censoring". After I read that I checked and found no definition of censoring that didn't fit this. If you have power over a community or it's expression and you shut it down, it's censorship, not some semantics.

Worst thing is I think all of Zak Smith product are horrible and I'm not interested in e-drama. But this attitude is also horrible.

 

[Curratum]

I actually think Zak S produces some of the most inspired, most wildly entertaining gonzo weird fantasy I've ever read. I am not 100% onboard with all his ideas and flavor but damn if he doesn't produce some nice weird fantasy.

 

[Morblot]

Vornheim at least is useful for probably the majority of DMs. Worth getting and at least a flip-through.

 

[Sacibengala]

Way to go, r/OSR:

Announcement: starting now, there will be a ban on promoting any Zak S content.

Spoiler

Folks,

The circumstances which led me to ban Zak Smith/Zak Sabbath/Zak S from this subreddit now impel me to enact a ban on mentioning his works. I had (perhaps naïvely) believed that a user ban would be enough, but it seems like he has enough sock puppet accounts or minions to keep his presence alive here, especially as he continues to produce new content. Therefore, posts promoting him or his products will be removed; repeat posters will be banned. Comments mentioning him will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis, but may be removed and might also result in a user ban.

To be clear: I do not know for a fact that the allegations of abuse against him are true, but they come from multiple sources, and to my knowledge not all of them have been refuted (lawsuits notwithstanding). Even if they had all been disproven, though, the toxic manner of interaction which he and others allied with him employ on other fora is not welcome here.

Also to be clear: this is not censorship. This is the exercise of editorial control. Anyone who is upset by this decision is free to post elsewhere, perhaps in a subreddit of their own making. I made this one, and wish to promote a healthier style of interaction between members.

I do not like taking this action. I don't like restricting discussion, and I don't like singling out one person for censure. But I believe, in the end, it will be best for this community, and if the allegations are true, it is the only respectful decision I can make for the women involved.

This post will be locked, as the decision is not up for discussion.

Be good people.

Redditors gonna reddit.

I've been following this drama for a while. i am really a fan of the work of zak s. As was mentioned above, the guy is extremely talented, there's no denying in it. I have several of his RPG products and would probably invest more in it, if possible. Maze of the blue medusa is spectacular, the best megadungeon I’ve ever seem. But also, there is no denying that he is an extremely unpleasant person online and I do not doubt that he has some kind of psychiatric disorder, maybe, I don’t know, but that is absolutely not my problem, and of anyone else on the internet. It is also not my problem whether the abuse charges against him are real or not (which is quite possible to be, just as it is possible not to be. He at least got witnesses to sign it on his favor, they literally signed documents in his favor, unlike his ex. Wife Witnesses, whose just posted on twitter or some blog), So, it is something to be resolved by the Justice system. The big problem that I see, however, is the atroucious and absurd censorship that has been taking place and the culture of cancellation around this case. Raggi (from the lamentations label) is not the smartest guy in the world, but he is authentic in his choices (some unfortunate, like every human being) and seems to be an honest guy. But the horde of hate are doing everything in their power to end his brand, trying to boycott and spread absurdities on the internet against the guy and the people who chooses to work with him. They got him to lose a fortune with deals in physical stores, to lose a lot of futures projects because the authors don’t want the backlash for being working with him, all because of these absurdity, all because they do not accept that something they do not like exists. This in itself is trash and must be combated with all forces. And any form of censorship don’t needs to be on a right side, it is wrong by itself to exist, period.

 

[Sacibengala]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzoUrxFbS4k&feature=youtu.be

Here is a recent interview with Zak S. It got banned in all the forums I’m aware of, so maybe it is worth of view.

 

[Bara]

So has anyone ever checked out the fan made B/X Companion product for what if Moldvay got to write rules going up to level 36?

Worthy addition to collect and use? Or at that point just play BECMI instead?

 

[Corvinus]

I've been following this drama for a while. i am really a fan of the work of zak s.

What did he do to become an outcast? What's the

version?

 

[Curratum]

I think he got #metoo-d at some point and he's, quite honestly, a bit of a cunt in a lot of his interactions with people.

 

[Sacibengala]

I've been following this drama for a while. i am really a fan of the work of zak s.

What did he do to become an outcast? What's the

version?

"Due to allegations of abuse and rape by several women including his ex-girlfriend, Morbid, Wizards of the Coast announced they would be removing all references to Smith from the print and digital editions of Dungeons & Dragons fifth edition.[14][15][16][17][18][19] Kenneth Hite, a former RPG collaborator, apologized to the women and said he would donate the proceeds from their upcoming book to a non-profit addressing domestic violence. OneBookShelf announced it would no longer work with Smith and would donate revenue generated from existing titles with Smith to the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network. Smith was also banned from attending Gen Con.[14] Smith denied the accusations and filed a defamation lawsuit against Morbid."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zak_Smith

By "several" I remember of one or two.

 

[Corvinus]

I knew that

DnD had eaten the woke frankfurter a long time ago, but to see them donating money to a network dedicated to Rape, Abuse and Incest is a bit much, even in 2020. Is it for those that can't get it from an uncle or in an alley somewhere?

Spoiler

He seems like a degenerate, but the wrong kind of degenerate for WoTC apparently. I wish we could return to simpler times, when it was all about the product and the names behind it were just that alone.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network.

the what now

 

[Morblot]

So has anyone ever checked out the fan made B/X Companion product for what if Moldvay got to write rules going up to level 36?

Worthy addition to collect and use? Or at that point just play BECMI instead?

I have it, but I haven't really read through it. The only thing I can say for certain is that it has some cool new monsters. Especially the 2 HD "black orc" should be a big hit in these sensitive times. :D

It also has new spells, as you'd expect, all the way up to level 9 at least for the magic-user. The 36th level MU is a beast, I think he gets 81 spells per day! Didn't really read the spells thorougly, though.

Also, the progression past expert levels for demihumans is kludgy. I don't remember the specifics and I don't have the book handy ATM, but it left me wishing he'd just simply increased their level cap. Then again, BECMI fucked it up as well from what I remember.

Maybe I'll get back to this over the weekend if I remember to peruse the book more.

 

[Sacibengala]

I knew that

DnD had eaten the woke frankfurter a long time ago, but to see them donating money to a network dedicated to Rape, Abuse and Incest is a bit much, even in 2020. Is it for those that can't get it from an uncle or in an alley somewhere?

Spoiler

He seems like a degenerate, but the wrong kind of degenerate for WoTC apparently. I wish we could return to simpler times, when it was all about the product and the names behind it were just that alone.

WOTC came after Mentzer for much less than that.

 

[Corvinus]

WOTC came after Mentzer for much less than that.

What did they do?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

WOTC came after Mentzer for much less than that.

What did they do?

I heard they forced him to play D&D 4E

 

[Bara]

WOTC came after Mentzer for much less than that.

What did they do?

I don't know if it was wotc involved or not and I may be misinformed but in 2017 he apparently got accused for harrasing people when drunk at piazocon and sending provocative private messages to women apparently.

Essentially the same shit as Avellone but no getting other people drunk along with himself.

This was around the time his kickstarter failed and was kicked off the dragonsfoot forms for some really bad posts which I haven't read myself.

He later claims some one hacked his account on dragonsfoot and blames the websites staff for not properly investigating.

Worse yet couple years Luke Gygax removes him as a Guest of Honor from Garycon stateing stuff about ensuring people feel safe or some stuff.

Yet at the same time Luke says he's not banned from the con and is free to attend so he's trying to satiate the mob while not totally throwing his father's old friend and friend of the family under the bus.

How accurate this post is I dont know as this was a while ago and these same type of accusations keep popping up from the same people around the same time every year or so it all gets drowned out even if it's true or not.

 

[Sacibengala]

WOTC came after Mentzer for much less than that.

What did they do?

I don't know if it was wotc involved or not and I may be misinformed but in 2017 he apparently got accused for harrasing people when drunk at piazocon and sending provocative private messages to women apparently.

Essentially the same shit as Avellone but no getting other people drunk along with himself.

This was around the time his kickstarter failed and was kicked off the dragonsfoot forms for some really bad posts which I haven't read myself.

He later claims some one hacked his account on dragonsfoot and blames the websites staff for not properly investigating.

Worse yet couple years Luke Gygax removes him as a Guest of Honor from Garycon stateing stuff about ensuring people feel safe or some stuff.

Yet at the same time Luke says he's not banned from the con and is free to attend so he's trying to satiate the mob while not totally throwing his father's old friend and friend of the family under the bus.

How accurate this post is I dont know as this was a while ago and these same type of accusations keep popping up from the same people around the same time every year or so it all gets drowned out even if it's true or not.

These messages? I can’t see the problem, really. And this chick got a lot worse after that. She became news after she quit or was fired, I don’t know, after she fucked up at ArenaNET. She was a writer in there, I believe.

https://mobile.twitter.com/delafina777/status/920489843821486080?lang=en

EDIT: And like, right now, she is rambling about Paizo and protecting WOTC.

 

[Bara]

EDIT: And like, right now, she is rambling about Paizo and protecting WOTC.

Yeah because wotc the one currently paying her bills. That new Greek adventure book coming out for 5e she's listed on the credits.

They ever end up firing her or just not renewing her contract she'll rag on her old bosses just like she did with anet after piazo.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I don’t know, after she fucked up at ArenaNET

What is it with this company and attracting insane women

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

So has anyone ever checked out the fan made B/X Companion product for what if Moldvay got to write rules going up to level 36?

Worthy addition to collect and use? Or at that point just play BECMI instead?

Seems to be a compressed version of the BECMI Companion Set (plus some info from the Master Set), so, even if you wanted to use B/X rules rather than BECMI, you would likely be better off adapting the higher level rules from BECMI yourself.