Incline OSR Games - Official thread

[nikolokolus]

RuneQuest is not a set of design principles I can say I subscribe to, though. I do agree it's better suited to the flavor and power level of heroes in the fiction but it's far too cumbersome for my taste.

That's why Ken St. Andre invented Stormbringer.

 

[Curratum]

RuneQuest is not a set of design principles I can say I subscribe to, though. I do agree it's better suited to the flavor and power level of heroes in the fiction but it's far too cumbersome for my taste.

That's why Ken St. Andre invented Stormbringer.

I could never get my hands on Stormbringer, and I keep hearing nothing but lavish praise for it.

 

[nikolokolus]

RuneQuest is not a set of design principles I can say I subscribe to, though. I do agree it's better suited to the flavor and power level of heroes in the fiction but it's far too cumbersome for my taste.

That's why Ken St. Andre invented Stormbringer.

I could never get my hands on Stormbringer, and I keep hearing nothing but lavish praise for it.

It's great. If you don't need the Moorcock-specific content, then there's Magic World from Chaosium that is basically Elric!/Stormbringer 5th ed. and Bronze Grimoire. Still in print, available on PDF, no hit locations, can be played as low magic S&S or high magic; close to Call of Cthulhu in complexity and style.

 

[Cael]

If basic math is beyond you, you really shouldn't be playing RPGs beyond White Wolf stuff because even ODnD had math (THAC0!!!).

The beauty of 3.5 was the versatility of the system. You can be what you want to be, subject to DM approval. For every Pun Pun, we had a Thief-Acrobat. For every splatbook overpowered!!!! complaint, we have a Dust of Sneezing and Choking (best weapon ever!) or Shapechange or Gate or Polymorph Any Other or Cleric or Druid or Wizard or... you get the idea.

Complaints of munchkinism is a cop out because you munchkin only as much as you are allowed to by the DM. That is a table problem, not a system problem. The problem with 4th was arrogant and hopelessly bad marketing by WotC for a product that was basically tabletop Diablo. No, thanks. I'd play Diablo with friends on a computer if that's the system I want to play. And WotC can take their arrogance for go fuck themselves.

 

[Melan]

The original 1st edition Lankhmar book is quite good - it works well with the AD&D rules (after all, AD&D is closest in tone to Leiber's stories), the city map is good, and the background information is succinct and well written. I just pulled the book off my shelf to take another look at it. :D The modules and later additions are considered terrible, although I only base this on second-hand information.

Lots of it is retarded. Why Mouser and Fafhrd are level 20+ characters is not justified. In the DCC there's three "levels" of character power. Weaker ones if you want to use them when they were new, medium ones for the Rat Plague story, and older ones when they moved off to that one island and got married. I mean, they aren't portrayed as superheroes in the stories...

Not going to argue with that - TSR's statting of literary characters was pants-on retarded, and full of inane snowflakeism. Even Gary Gygax was guilty of this, and pretty much only Bill Seligman got it right. Looking at the Lankhmar book, it doesn't even make sense. The majority of NPCs described in the supplement are low-to-mid level, with the odd outlier.

 

[Curratum]

If basic math is beyond you, you really shouldn't be playing RPGs beyond White Wolf stuff because even ODnD had math (THAC0!!!).

The beauty of 3.5 was the versatility of the system. You can be what you want to be, subject to DM approval. For every Pun Pun, we had a Thief-Acrobat. For every splatbook overpowered!!!! complaint, we have a Dust of Sneezing and Choking (best weapon ever!) or Shapechange or Gate or Polymorph Any Other or Cleric or Druid or Wizard or... you get the idea.

I can't stand story-heavy RPGs. THAC0 can go suck a cock. This is exactly why I'm making my own system. 4 attributes, dropping charisma and wisdom, one caster class only, you can pick all the healing and turn undead spells you want. Skill checks are "roll under your stat on a d20", advantage and disadvantage only, no +1 bullshit. Monsters have AC and a single SKILL value. Skill is used for both combat rolls and saving throws. AC in combat is baked in the low end of the roll - if you want to hit a troll with 4 AC, you need to roll below your STR, but ABOVE 4.

No addition and subtraction and assorted bullshit for bonuses and maluses. All player-facing saving throws are "roll under your relevant stat", because why would you want to keep separate scores for saves when you already have DEX and CON?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So, help me understand, what constitutes OSR, and how you tell them apart. Far as I can tell, one of the things is that, if you were to search for traps, you declare where you're looking for traps in OSR, and if you succeed the roll AND look in the right place you succeed, whereas, in non-OSR you roll to win?
I mean, that's the rough gist of what I read from one of those what is old-school articles.

 

[Cael]

If basic math is beyond you, you really shouldn't be playing RPGs beyond White Wolf stuff because even ODnD had math (THAC0!!!).

The beauty of 3.5 was the versatility of the system. You can be what you want to be, subject to DM approval. For every Pun Pun, we had a Thief-Acrobat. For every splatbook overpowered!!!! complaint, we have a Dust of Sneezing and Choking (best weapon ever!) or Shapechange or Gate or Polymorph Any Other or Cleric or Druid or Wizard or... you get the idea.

I can't stand story-heavy RPGs. THAC0 can go suck a cock. This is exactly why I'm making my own system. 4 attributes, dropping charisma and wisdom, one caster class only, you can pick all the healing and turn undead spells you want. Skill checks are "roll under your stat on a d20", advantage and disadvantage only, no +1 bullshit. Monsters have AC and a single SKILL value. Skill is used for both combat rolls and saving throws. AC in combat is baked in the low end of the roll - if you want to hit a troll with 4 AC, you need to roll below your STR, but ABOVE 4.

No addition and subtraction and assorted bullshit for bonuses and maluses. All player-facing saving throws are "roll under your relevant stat", because why would you want to keep separate scores for saves when you already have DEX and CON?

May I introduce you to a system called Fighting Fantasy? :D

 

[Curratum]

May I introduce you to a system called Fighting Fantasy? :D

I have the 2E PDFs and played the gamebooks as a kid! :D It's almost that, yes, but I just wanted to pare it down even more and just have you roll against attributes without bothering with discrete skills with points in them.

I should have also explained that I'm primarily making this system for my kid to play with him. I find it serviceable for a game with adults, if you're in for some quick fun.

 

[Alex]

So, help me understand, what constitutes OSR, and how you tell them apart. Far as I can tell, one of the things is that, if you were to search for traps, you declare where you're looking for traps in OSR, and if you succeed the roll AND look in the right place you succeed, whereas, in non-OSR you roll to win?
I mean, that's the rough gist of what I read from one of those what is old-school articles.

The trap thing varies. I like having the trap find chance be a safety net. So, either you search the right place or, if you are a thief, you make your roll. If you pass the roll, you spot the trap even if you hadn't thought of checking for them.

 

[Cael]

May I introduce you to a system called Fighting Fantasy? :D

I have the 2E PDFs and played the gamebooks as a kid! :D It's almost that, yes, but I just wanted to pare it down even more and just have you roll against attributes without bothering with discrete skills with points in them.

I should have also explained that I'm primarily making this system for my kid to play with him. I find it serviceable for a game with adults, if you're in for some quick fun.

It was pretty obvious where you got the inspiration from

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So, help me understand, what constitutes OSR, and how you tell them apart. Far as I can tell, one of the things is that, if you were to search for traps, you declare where you're looking for traps in OSR, and if you succeed the roll AND look in the right place you succeed, whereas, in non-OSR you roll to win?
I mean, that's the rough gist of what I read from one of those what is old-school articles.

The trap thing varies. I like having the trap find chance be a safety net. So, either you search the right place or, if you are a thief, you make your roll. If you pass the roll, you spot the trap even if you hadn't thought of checking for them.

So what does differentiate OSR from the rest?

 

[7h30n]

So, help me understand, what constitutes OSR, and how you tell them apart. Far as I can tell, one of the things is that, if you were to search for traps, you declare where you're looking for traps in OSR, and if you succeed the roll AND look in the right place you succeed, whereas, in non-OSR you roll to win?
I mean, that's the rough gist of what I read from one of those what is old-school articles.

The trap thing varies. I like having the trap find chance be a safety net. So, either you search the right place or, if you are a thief, you make your roll. If you pass the roll, you spot the trap even if you hadn't thought of checking for them.

So what does differentiate OSR from the rest?

I have not been playing PnP RPGs in the old era. I only started with SW d20 (which is pretty much prototype for what became D&D 3ed), so I can give you materials which I've used to add more old school elements to my (current) D&D 5ed sessions. Perhaps that will help you understand what OSR is about.

A Quick Primer on Old School Gaming seems to be the number one thing which at least in some way explains what OSR should be and how it is different from non-OSR. Unfortunately, it seems to me like OSR has become a bit of a muddied term in recent years. I've also read the rulebook for Swords & Wizardry as well as old modules for OD&D (mostly Gygax ones), then compare that to non-OSR RPG of choice.

Additionally, Hack & Slash blog has some good stuff, especially topics regarding Tricks and Traps, though I don't always agree with everything written.

 

[Alex]

So, help me understand, what constitutes OSR, and how you tell them apart. Far as I can tell, one of the things is that, if you were to search for traps, you declare where you're looking for traps in OSR, and if you succeed the roll AND look in the right place you succeed, whereas, in non-OSR you roll to win?
I mean, that's the rough gist of what I read from one of those what is old-school articles.

The trap thing varies. I like having the trap find chance be a safety net. So, either you search the right place or, if you are a thief, you make your roll. If you pass the roll, you spot the trap even if you hadn't thought of checking for them.

So what does differentiate OSR from the rest?

OSR is more about about its community rather than an actual set of principles or specific rules. That said, there are elements that are mostly common among people who are part of the renaissance:

1. Simplicity. Most people in this movement show a dislike for complex rules systems. What constitute a complex rules system differs from person to person, though. I think most people would find Shadowrun 3e or GURPS way too complex. Some might find AD&D 1e too complex as well, though. This characteristic is sometimes predicated. That is rather than liking simplicity by itself, some old school people like it because it allows the DM to decide things by rulings more freely.
2. DM Power. OSR is mostly adverse to "new school" games that change how DMing work. Usually they aren't so much adverse against having the player, for instance, determine some aspects of the game world. For instance, maybe a player can come up with an faction of magic users when coming up with his background or something like that. However, spending a token to determine what happened in the gameworld's past or passing a lore skill to say what the meaning of a rune is (rather than having the DM tell you) would usually be frowned upon. In particular, having the system say how things should be decided, say like in Burning Wheel, rather than allowing the DM to deal with it as he sees fit, would be seen as bad.
   
3. Challenge Centered Campaign. Rather than centering the game around a specific story the GM came up with. Instead, the campaigns usually center around a challenge or problem which the players need to solve or interact with. The most obvious example is the "mega-dungeon", where you have an enormous dungeon that must be explored. Hex-crawl games are similar, except they focus in exploring an open location rather than an enclosed dungeon. Note that it is usually a good thing thing if the challenge is open ended. That is, if rather than accomplishing something specific (like get to the bottom of the dungeon and kill evil boss man), the challenge can allow the players to come up with their own objective (so, if the player find the interplanetary portal on level 4 of the dungeon, they might decide to bring the technology they find on the other side to conquer their own world).

There are a lot of other things as well. For instance, most OSR games don't treat the PCs as protagonists, at least right off the bat. Instead, PCs can die easily and party wipes are not very rare. Most games I know also have a greater focus on making the rules seem more like what you would find in a pulp fantasy story. They don't worry as much about game balance, being more concerned with giving each player some kind of interesting tool rather than if they are all equivalent.

I hope this helps clarify things. I have actually been out of the loop for a while, so maybe things have changed in the last three or four years, but that is how I found the scene.

 

[Curratum]

It was pretty obvious where you got the inspiration from

Strictly speaking, the two main sources of inspiration were Black Hack and White Hack.

 

[Curratum]

Whew, just wrapping up the bestiary section of the OSR homebrew fantasy heartbreaker book, almost done, just need to flesh out the full spell texts.

Here's the rules, horribly machine-translated by Google. I edited the chapter headings for clarity. Should not be too much of a pain to read and understand.

https://www.docdroid.net/ObAfK0B/dee-and-dee.pdf

 

[Morblot]

"At a new level of experience, the scout throws twice for KILLING." What?
Scouts get "toe fingers" twice.
If you need ideas for scout's level 10 power, how about some sort of assassination attack?
What are Cock Archery Arrows, and how many of them are there in a bundle?
Since each item weighs the same, can I buy several horses to eat instead of rations?
What kind of weapons are Monsters, etc?
I don't understand how initiative works. What if some of our guys succeed and some don't, and also some of the opponents succeed and some don't?
How come 2/3 of the races get good hearing, but scouts don't?
I like the magic system, but where are the spells? In old D&D books, I assume?

All in all, I like it. I'd throw a few bucks your way if you put a cleaned up version of this for sale on DriveThruRPG.

 

[Curratum]

Scout rolls twice to see if DEX increases.
"cock archery arrows" is a "quiver of arrows", we have the same word for bolts and arrows, so yeah. Not sure whether to use Black Hack's usage die or count consumables yet.
Items weigh the same as long as you can fit them in a backpack or carry it on your belt / person.
The "monster" in weapons is mace, really...

Initiative is dead simple. All PCs test DEX. All PCs who succeed, act before ALL monsters, all PCs who fail act after ALL monsters.
Listening at doors is lifted 100% as it appears in B/X, I believe. How well you hear depends on your race and body, not your training.
Spells are in an excel sheet that I haven't completed yet, it's mostly D&D staples in 5 circles of power.

Can I even publish this to DTRPG? It's essentially a compilation of rules from other systems! :D

 

[Morblot]

Can I even publish this to DTRPG? It's essentially a compilation of rules from other systems! :D

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/246226/B-X-Essentials-PDF-Bundle-BUNDLE

Aren't they all?

 

[Curratum]

If I could be bothered to actually register a company / legal entity, I might. But then again, the 30 bucks I'd make off it wouldn't be worth the bother. It's basically really freeform D&D where ability checks are "roll under stat" and combat is "roll under stat but over enemy's AC that is in the 1-6 range".

 

[Dwemer Puzzle Box]

If I could be bothered to actually register a company / legal entity, I might. But then again, the 30 bucks I'd make off it wouldn't be worth the bother. It's basically really freeform D&D where ability checks are "roll under stat" and combat is "roll under stat but over enemy's AC that is in the 1-6 range".

I would do it anyway - you'd be surprised how stupid some shit on dtrpg can be (artwork packs, convoluted rules, whatever you want).

Hell, I'll probably publish my crossbreed between OSR and Apocalypse World rules soon just for the funzies, input, and MAYBE some money:

• few class ("archetype") options with different themes and focus;
• generally low-level - dying around level 7 doesn't suddenly make you a burden for your group. Sure, you will miss some juicy, juicy character options, but the leveling process is extremely quick and intuitive (no reason not to be);
• 2d6+stat mod as your main mechanic - I simply love it way too much, I guess, it makes much more sense in my brain, and allows you to actually be competent at your job right from the get go (unless you roll your stats in the shittiest way possible, but who says you can't reroll your character?);
• as for OSR, I focused mostly on combat lethality, random tables (and randomness in general), generating dungeons on the fly, and so on. So far, it works way better than I ever imagined.

The whole thing started because I wanted to "fix" all the things that I disliked about Numenera rpg, only to evolve into something between Morrowind's weirdness, forbidden archeology, dungeon delving, all wrapped up in quasi-ancient setting. You know, something between and

 

[Morblot]

artwork packs

Tell me about it. I actually bought a couple

Your game sounds cool. Do tell if you put it up somewhere.

 

[Morblot]

Pretty sure everybody's seen this already, but apparently Zak S is a bit of a dick according to his ex-girlfriend.

Can't say I'm shocked.

 

[Curratum]

You need only look at a photo of Zak and you can pretty much pinpoint exactly what kind of person he is.

 

[Melan]

How could this guy turn out to be a colossal douchebag?