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On the shoulders of giants: a new multiple choices LP!
- Thread starter Curufinwe
- Start date
exe
Augur
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
- Messages
- 361
Obsidian Embers ended because Codex first gave the guy his gem and then, when he unsurprisingly came back with an invincible army of Fire Elementals, decided to tell him to fuck off. I.e. Codex flip-flopping too much and not being consistent in their votings (as always).
Maybe I shouldn't have called it most interesting, but most sensible. A was go into caves full of monsters (which just killed a small volunteer army), B was check out some other caves that might not be full of monsters and C was do nothing.
When will you guys get that it wasn't inconsistency? Virtually everyone voted who voted to resist the Wielder (I am not one of them) did so believing that it would create a memory of resistance and see the Council martyred. Some (who hated the Wielder) hoped this would inspire later generations to revolt while more moderate types who voted for it just wanted it as a memory in case the Wielder proved incompetent.
Expecting it to be a 'lol game over' would be like getting a game over if Hitler and the Nazis replace the Weimar Republic or the French execute Louis XVI. Absolutely no one thought that if the Council members died we would get a game over.
Expecting it to be a 'lol game over' would be like getting a game over if Hitler and the Nazis replace the Weimar Republic or the French execute Louis XVI. Absolutely no one thought that if the Council members died we would get a game over.
newcomer
Learned
- Joined
- May 23, 2012
- Messages
- 919
Curufinwe
Maybe you would like to define who are we playing as to avoid lol game over again, such as whether we are playing as Saras's dynasty (and so any dynasty change will be game over), or is a more flexible throne inheritance or change in political model such as a change from kingdom to democracy allowed. And maybe state which ones are NPCs and will end our rule (well, you did tell us that the Wielder is an NPC...)
Maybe you would like to define who are we playing as to avoid lol game over again, such as whether we are playing as Saras's dynasty (and so any dynasty change will be game over), or is a more flexible throne inheritance or change in political model such as a change from kingdom to democracy allowed. And maybe state which ones are NPCs and will end our rule (well, you did tell us that the Wielder is an NPC...)
My personal opinion is rather simple. The wielder of fire was an NPC. That was clear, he was never under our control. We represented the tribe, he was under OTHER influences, he had his own plans.
In the last update we chose to support the losing side. Since we did, and we were all killed, there was nobody in the tribe that was under our control. It most likely was not a matter of elder council or not, I think.
What Vernydar said. It wasn't about the council being killed off, I couldn't care less about that. It was about you siding with the side that was completely wiped out, no survivors. Hell, the council probably would have met with unfortunate accidents even with the 'bow down' option. It was about your intentions, not the people you played, since you didn't really play anyone.
Forgive me if I gave the wrong impression.
Forgive me if I gave the wrong impression.
No, because the Wielder was an NPC and we've switched to a different group.
Our collective support fell behind the faction that resisted, and for a normal choice that wouldn't have mattered, since whether we go for bear cavalry or making bows and arrows we would have had a sizable section of our group surviving. In this instance, we were wiped out to a man for our mistake in so openly opposing the Wielder, so there was no going past that.
Our collective support fell behind the faction that resisted, and for a normal choice that wouldn't have mattered, since whether we go for bear cavalry or making bows and arrows we would have had a sizable section of our group surviving. In this instance, we were wiped out to a man for our mistake in so openly opposing the Wielder, so there was no going past that.
Basically you never controlled and never would have the Wielder. You could influence him, limit him etc but not directly decide what he would do. The game over was caused by the fact that by siding with the slaughtered faction you lost all possibilities of control. Again, not about specific characters being killed off, but about you losing all your influence over the tribe's direction.
AstralStorm
Educated
Remember that we were in the ancient times and that the victors write the history; also the tribe was quite small.
All history was oral, since no writing was mentioned.
Where is your memory now? This last stand working was a real dumb assumption.
--
As for the LP proper, I think both move options are about as risky, since we can lose scouts relatively easily (the retinue is not that large, you know), while otherwise we could stumble blindly into a literal dead end.
However, since we need more information, I'd say moving slowly with scouting is a decent idea. At least we won't get outmaneuvered - but we might still end up surrounded.
Alright, seems the majority of the voters approve of Vernydar's plan. Scout slowly and carefully, keep the main force in one piece to avoid ambushes and crap like that. Had a busy week, today's the first free day I get to write an update. On a more general note, I'll update when I can, trying my very best to keep it at least once a week (more often of course when I can):
A dark, dark labyrinth
.... thus, the young king, standing in front of his father's pyre, swore: "My father, your noble Choice led you to a king's death, a warrior's death. The ghastly beasts took your life, but your legacy will endure. I here swear, in front of the nation and our ancestors, to hunt down your killers, to keep our people safe, to exact vengeance..."
(Taken from 'Life and Deeds of King Saras the First')
Days of planning, arguments and counterarguments led the military to elaborate a preliminary plan regarding the coming campaign.
Heavy use of scouts was approved, since the army could not, would not risk being ambushed, pinned down or, worse, taken in the rear by circling enemies.
Each tunnel would have to be scouted, small guard posts erected at each ramification until the surrounding tunnels could be explored and declared safe. A slow, methodical mapping effort would be taken on. The beasts' location, where they came from, had to be found, so we could finally confront the threat head on.
At first the main army camp was erected at the site of the massacre. Rudimentary fortifications were built, allowing the passage of just one person (or beast) at a time from the many tunnels leading to the cave.
Scouting parties were sent forward, five men each, to explore the tunnels and report back their findings to the officers.
Days passed, uneventful days, while our knowledge of the tunnel system slowly increased. Slabs of stones were brought to the camp, ready to be chiseled with maps. For the first time in the kingdom's history the tunnels were finally being explored.
Many further ramifications were found, many dead ends were chalked off, many tunnels were declared safe. All were empty, devoid of life, dry, dusty and unremarkable.
No sign of the fate of the disappeared Chosen was found, yet.
Then, after a week of fruitless searching, two events happened during the same day. In the same tunnel.
This tunnel, a few miles east of base camp, was just as unremarkable as any other... except for the disappearing of a scouting team inside it, without a trace.
The five men had departed during the start of their shift and were expected to report back within two hours. Three hours passed, then five, until the officer in charge of that section of the tunnels decided to send a greater force down the tunnel to investigate.
The twenty men proceeded down a straight corridor for more than a mile, finding no trace of the scouting team. What they found was different. A scrap of paper, with writing on it.
The men who found the paper, who couldn't read, brought it back to the officer. He gave it a glance, grew pale and immediately told his second to take charge.
He personally brought it back to central command, who forwarded it to the capital and the king. Any paper scrap had to be old, very old, from the days of the legendary escape underground or immediately after that. There were no ways to craft paper in the caves, so the few books that our people brought with them were carefully kept by the priest caste in the Temple of the Chosen.
The officer was introduced in the presence of king Saras, who listened to his report then held out his hand.
He received the paper and started reading...
(illegible due to faded ink)....free choice my ass. There's jack squat in these tunnels. Those assholes back at the main cave just sent us here to die. We would head back, but first, we are completely lost, those monsters didn't even let us take light on this 'pilgrimage'; second, we all remember very well what happened to those poor sods who tried to come back last year. So here we are, trying to make our way back to the surface, even if.... (torn scrap) .... but we need to find something to eat. Food is going to run out in the next week... (page ends).
The king frowned, then asked the officer: "Did you read this, lieutenant?"
The officer, kneeling in front of the throne, nodded: "Yes, my king. But I couldn't understand many of the words. I could read them, but they made no sense. The only thing I understood is that some people, ancient people, were sent on an unwilling pilgrimage and could not come back."
The king nodded, then said: "Did anyone else read this?"
The officer answered: "No, my king. Due to the antiquity of the item and its importance, I thought it would be best to bring it to your attention immediately."
The king nodded again: "Smart. Go back to your post, captain, and don't mention the find to anyone."
The officer blinked, then bowed: "Thanks, my king."
Saras nodded to the captain of his guard: "Escort the captain back to the cave entrance. Inform the general of his promotion. I have to think about this."
The king closeted himself in his rooms for the rest of the day, consulting the few ancient texts that were in the crown's small library. Then he summoned the high priest.
The priest arrived within an hour in the king's chambers. He knelt: "You have summoned me, my king. I am here. How can the Temple be of service?"
King Saras handed him the piece of paper: "Read."
The priest took the scrap and started reading. Saras carefully observed his reactions, noticing the man grew considerably paler.
"What do you make of this, high priest?"
The priest took a deep breath, steadying himself: "It appears to be a very old document. Possibly from the days immediately following our escape underground."
"I never read anything like this. The phrasing is... weird. It is our language, but used in a way I have never witnessed before. It is very different from the ancient religious texts that are in the crown's keeping. Have you ever seen anything like it?"
The priest hesitated a moment, then answered, somewhat shakily: "No, my king. It is the first time I see something like this as well."
The king nodded. The head priest wasn't a good liar. Now he just had to decide how to proceed:
A. Let the matter drop. Although an interesting nugget of ancient history, he had greater concerns at the moment, there was a military campaign going on.
B. Press the priest further, he was obviously hiding something. He was a bad liar and a sicophant, with just the right amount of pressure he would spill what he knew.
C. Have the guards seize the priest and force him to talk. The Temple would not like it, but something about the discovery nagged at him and he wanted to find out all that could be found out.
A dark, dark labyrinth
.... thus, the young king, standing in front of his father's pyre, swore: "My father, your noble Choice led you to a king's death, a warrior's death. The ghastly beasts took your life, but your legacy will endure. I here swear, in front of the nation and our ancestors, to hunt down your killers, to keep our people safe, to exact vengeance..."
(Taken from 'Life and Deeds of King Saras the First')
Days of planning, arguments and counterarguments led the military to elaborate a preliminary plan regarding the coming campaign.
Heavy use of scouts was approved, since the army could not, would not risk being ambushed, pinned down or, worse, taken in the rear by circling enemies.
Each tunnel would have to be scouted, small guard posts erected at each ramification until the surrounding tunnels could be explored and declared safe. A slow, methodical mapping effort would be taken on. The beasts' location, where they came from, had to be found, so we could finally confront the threat head on.
At first the main army camp was erected at the site of the massacre. Rudimentary fortifications were built, allowing the passage of just one person (or beast) at a time from the many tunnels leading to the cave.
Scouting parties were sent forward, five men each, to explore the tunnels and report back their findings to the officers.
Days passed, uneventful days, while our knowledge of the tunnel system slowly increased. Slabs of stones were brought to the camp, ready to be chiseled with maps. For the first time in the kingdom's history the tunnels were finally being explored.
Many further ramifications were found, many dead ends were chalked off, many tunnels were declared safe. All were empty, devoid of life, dry, dusty and unremarkable.
No sign of the fate of the disappeared Chosen was found, yet.
Then, after a week of fruitless searching, two events happened during the same day. In the same tunnel.
This tunnel, a few miles east of base camp, was just as unremarkable as any other... except for the disappearing of a scouting team inside it, without a trace.
The five men had departed during the start of their shift and were expected to report back within two hours. Three hours passed, then five, until the officer in charge of that section of the tunnels decided to send a greater force down the tunnel to investigate.
The twenty men proceeded down a straight corridor for more than a mile, finding no trace of the scouting team. What they found was different. A scrap of paper, with writing on it.
The men who found the paper, who couldn't read, brought it back to the officer. He gave it a glance, grew pale and immediately told his second to take charge.
He personally brought it back to central command, who forwarded it to the capital and the king. Any paper scrap had to be old, very old, from the days of the legendary escape underground or immediately after that. There were no ways to craft paper in the caves, so the few books that our people brought with them were carefully kept by the priest caste in the Temple of the Chosen.
The officer was introduced in the presence of king Saras, who listened to his report then held out his hand.
He received the paper and started reading...
(illegible due to faded ink)....free choice my ass. There's jack squat in these tunnels. Those assholes back at the main cave just sent us here to die. We would head back, but first, we are completely lost, those monsters didn't even let us take light on this 'pilgrimage'; second, we all remember very well what happened to those poor sods who tried to come back last year. So here we are, trying to make our way back to the surface, even if.... (torn scrap) .... but we need to find something to eat. Food is going to run out in the next week... (page ends).
The king frowned, then asked the officer: "Did you read this, lieutenant?"
The officer, kneeling in front of the throne, nodded: "Yes, my king. But I couldn't understand many of the words. I could read them, but they made no sense. The only thing I understood is that some people, ancient people, were sent on an unwilling pilgrimage and could not come back."
The king nodded, then said: "Did anyone else read this?"
The officer answered: "No, my king. Due to the antiquity of the item and its importance, I thought it would be best to bring it to your attention immediately."
The king nodded again: "Smart. Go back to your post, captain, and don't mention the find to anyone."
The officer blinked, then bowed: "Thanks, my king."
Saras nodded to the captain of his guard: "Escort the captain back to the cave entrance. Inform the general of his promotion. I have to think about this."
The king closeted himself in his rooms for the rest of the day, consulting the few ancient texts that were in the crown's small library. Then he summoned the high priest.
The priest arrived within an hour in the king's chambers. He knelt: "You have summoned me, my king. I am here. How can the Temple be of service?"
King Saras handed him the piece of paper: "Read."
The priest took the scrap and started reading. Saras carefully observed his reactions, noticing the man grew considerably paler.
"What do you make of this, high priest?"
The priest took a deep breath, steadying himself: "It appears to be a very old document. Possibly from the days immediately following our escape underground."
"I never read anything like this. The phrasing is... weird. It is our language, but used in a way I have never witnessed before. It is very different from the ancient religious texts that are in the crown's keeping. Have you ever seen anything like it?"
The priest hesitated a moment, then answered, somewhat shakily: "No, my king. It is the first time I see something like this as well."
The king nodded. The head priest wasn't a good liar. Now he just had to decide how to proceed:
A. Let the matter drop. Although an interesting nugget of ancient history, he had greater concerns at the moment, there was a military campaign going on.
B. Press the priest further, he was obviously hiding something. He was a bad liar and a sicophant, with just the right amount of pressure he would spill what he knew.
C. Have the guards seize the priest and force him to talk. The Temple would not like it, but something about the discovery nagged at him and he wanted to find out all that could be found out.
I am currently undecided between B and C. Previous experiences have left me distrustful of religious people. Let me state this:
- The priests are hiding something
- It seems to be more of the shameful knowledge type rather than the dangerous type, but who knows
- We WILL get to the bottom of this. I want to know, even if we have to impale every priest of our kingdom in the central cave. Before the entire population.
I am just undecided about what choice would give us better results between B and C, thus I will think a bit more before voting.
- The priests are hiding something
- It seems to be more of the shameful knowledge type rather than the dangerous type, but who knows
- We WILL get to the bottom of this. I want to know, even if we have to impale every priest of our kingdom in the central cave. Before the entire population.
I am just undecided about what choice would give us better results between B and C, thus I will think a bit more before voting.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,835
B for now, C would be heavy-handed at present.
Esquilax
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2010
- Messages
- 4,833
Curufinwe, the Temple is the priestly caste, I'm assuming. How much influence/power do they exert on our society?
As for the choice, I am feeling a little EXTREME. Five men are already missing and the expedition is too important to start pussyfooting around with people like this. It might have ramifications and result in some political intrigue (maybe the Temple might try to assassinate our King), but this asshole is wasting our time.
C
As for the choice, I am feeling a little EXTREME. Five men are already missing and the expedition is too important to start pussyfooting around with people like this. It might have ramifications and result in some political intrigue (maybe the Temple might try to assassinate our King), but this asshole is wasting our time.
C
Yep, priestly caste indeed. About power/influence, they do not have much temporal power per se, there's only a small detachment of ceremonial guards at their orders (fifty or so people) who are the guys who 'help' the people along during the Choice if they aren't compliant. Influence is another matter: the Choice and the cult of the past/ancestors is completely in their hands. In recorded history, which is not much, there has been no instance of contrasts between the king and the Temple. Religion isn't a great driving force in this society though (right now), no fanatics that you know of, so it's not likely to face riots/civil wars over such a contrast.
The real problem is that if the king is seen as going against religion a lot of people will start questioning your current situation. Your whole society is kept together by the Choice thing. People go along with it because of the moral condemnation that's associated with refusing it. If the king is seen as fighting religion openly, you're likely to be facing social unrest long term, basically. And the food situation is still the same, the cave cannot sustain a normal demographical curve.
Even a few years without Choice would be hell on food stocks, with foreseeable consequences.
The real problem is that if the king is seen as going against religion a lot of people will start questioning your current situation. Your whole society is kept together by the Choice thing. People go along with it because of the moral condemnation that's associated with refusing it. If the king is seen as fighting religion openly, you're likely to be facing social unrest long term, basically. And the food situation is still the same, the cave cannot sustain a normal demographical curve.
Even a few years without Choice would be hell on food stocks, with foreseeable consequences.
Stygian Lurker
Liturgist
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 577
B
Collage
Educated
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 59
B. We shouldn't openly refute the temple, but wear it down over time. If we are going to survive in the caves we must innovate. This means expanding, finding other sources of food or breaching the surface. I admit the religious laws have served us well, but to grow as a people we must move forward.
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