Gothic Oblivion vs Gothic 3: which is worse and why? DISCUSS!!

[TheSecondRanger]

Gothic 3 was an okay generic fantasy action RPG. The mechanics were okay and so were the quests. Ranged combat was okay, magic was surprisingly fun, but melee combat was clunky. However, it was a bad Gothic not worthy of its name.

Oblivion on the other hand had level scaling. That alone makes it an atrocity of a game.

The setting is a matter of taste. Gothic 3 is european fantasy, Oblivion is american fantasy. I hate the latter.

 

[Robber Baron]

Gothic 3 with mods is a very good and fun game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmOz5NDqadQ

Oblivion with mods is enjoyable to a degree, depends on the desire to roleplay in your head
I vote Oblivion because I hate closing gates gimmick to this very day

 

[deama]

Gothic 3 with mods is a very good and fun game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmOz5NDqadQ

Oblivion with mods is enjoyable to a degree, depends on the desire to roleplay in your head
I vote Oblivion because I hate closing gates gimmick to this very day

They need to redo that shit in gothic 2 engine instead of wasting time making gothic 3 mods trying to fix a pile of shit.

 

[Deadyawn]

Oblivion is worse. Gothic 3 is pretty bad, but the world map is cool.

 

[GaelicVigil]

Bump because there are already a dozen G3 threads...

I hadn't played this game in at least a decade so I thought I'd give it another shot with the most recent fixes, mods, etc. Have to say, the game is really awesome now. Most of the criticisms have been outright fixed or addressed to a great degree.

• "Performance sucks, bugs galore."
  • Game runs pretty damn smooth now with the parallel patch mod. In the dozens of hours of play so far I never once experienced a crash and only experienced a few minor slow-downs.
  • Years of bug-fixing has stamped most of them out. Nothing problematic jumped out at me, though I'm sure they are still there.
• "Combat is shit."
  • Combat is still not going to blow you away, but brand new movement and animations make it MUCH smoother and more cinematic. Magic and ranged are still more satisfying to play than melee, but melee has come a long way.
• "World feels empty and lifeless."
  • This couldn't be further from the truth now. With the Questpack and the ImmersiveWorld mods, you can't run for more than a minute before running into interesting things to discover. In fact, I just went back and played Gothic 1&2 after playing G3 and found those two games lacked much more in interesting content than G3 as of now.
• "Quests are garbage fetch quests."
  • There are still some of those, however, there are some pretty damn good ones too. There are many quests which chain into longer overarching adventure stories. A simple "get me 15 sacks of grain" quest, for example, turns into a diplomatic encounter with some bandits, and an adventure into a cave which leads to an undead fortress. Another early quest has you assassinating an orc leader who killed a villagers wife for some armor, OR you can join the orc instead to kill the husband and get a very good helmet early on.
  • Not to mention the fact that every quest helps your reputation which pushes you toward creating interesting conflicts, wars and consequences down the line.
• "Story is non-existent."
  • Yeah, that hasn't changed at all, BUT IMO the real "story" here (and the reason you should play) is the interesting faction on faction interactions and conflict. NO other game in the Piranha Bytes library lets you actually go to war with other factions and completely wipe them out. There is something truly satisfying gathering a horde of orcs to run over a human town, slaughtering all of the assholes who gave you a hard time earlier.

My last point is probably the best reason to play Gothic 3. The world interaction is unparalleled. There is something therapeutic and "final" about wiping out entire villages in a game and ending whole quest chains simply because you CAN. It's honestly hard to go back to a game like Oblivion again where I know most NPCs are simply untouchable and/or will simply just respawn again the next time I enter their cell. You can make a real impact on the game world and the sense of immersion beats most other RPGs here. Hate to say it, but with this modded version, I think this is the best game in the trilogy now. Yeah, heresy, but as I said above, I went back and played the other two games and they just felt flat and inferior to me. This is a far superior game to the one that released way back in 2006.

I followed this guide with a couple differences: I enabled Questpaket (DO NOT play without this), Smart Texture Pack (appropriately dark Gothic theme), and CNQArenas (optional, but makes for slightly improved arena setup), and CNQMagicWeapons (also optional, but adds a lot more depth to item enchantments). I also recommend using some of the older monster skins, I think most looked a lot better in earlier games.

 

[Spike]

Bump because there are already a dozen G3 threads...

I hadn't played this game in at least a decade so I thought I'd give it another shot with the most recent fixes, mods, etc. Have to say, the game is really awesome now. Most of the criticisms have been outright fixed or addressed to a great degree.

• "Performance sucks, bugs galore."
  • Game runs pretty damn smooth now with the parallel patch mod. In the dozens of hours of play so far I never once experienced a crash and only experienced a few minor slow-downs.
  • Years of bug-fixing has stamped most of them out. Nothing problematic jumped out at me, though I'm sure they are still there.
• "Combat is shit."
  • Combat is still not going to blow you away, but brand new movement and animations make it MUCH smoother and more cinematic. Magic and ranged are still more satisfying to play than melee, but melee has come a long way.
• "World feels empty and lifeless."
  • This couldn't be further from the truth now. With the Questpack and the ImmersiveWorld mods, you can't run for more than a minute before running into interesting things to discover. In fact, I just went back and played Gothic 1&2 after playing G3 and found those two games lacked much more in interesting content than G3 as of now.
• "Quests are garbage fetch quests."
  • There are still some of those, however, there are some pretty damn good ones too. There are many quests which chain into longer overarching adventure stories. A simple "get me 15 sacks of grain" quest, for example, turns into a diplomatic encounter with some bandits, and an adventure into a cave which leads to an undead fortress. Another early quest has you assassinating an orc leader who killed a villagers wife for some armor, OR you can join the orc instead to kill the husband and get a very good helmet early on.
  • Not to mention the fact that every quest helps your reputation which pushes you toward creating interesting conflicts, wars and consequences down the line.
• "Story is non-existent."
  • Yeah, that hasn't changed at all, BUT IMO the real "story" here (and the reason you should play) is the interesting faction on faction interactions and conflict. NO other game in the Piranha Bytes library lets you actually go to war with other factions and completely wipe them out. There is something truly satisfying gathering a horde of orcs to run over a human town, slaughtering all of the assholes who gave you a hard time earlier.

My last point is probably the best reason to play Gothic 3. The world interaction is unparalleled. There is something therapeutic and "final" about wiping out entire villages in a game and ending whole quest chains simply because you CAN. It's honestly hard to go back to a game like Oblivion again where I know most NPCs are simply untouchable and/or will simply just respawn again the next time I enter their cell. You can make a real impact on the game world and the sense of immersion beats most other RPGs here. Hate to say it, but with this modded version, I think this is the best game in the trilogy now. Yeah, heresy, but as I said above, I went back and played the other two games and they just felt flat and inferior to me. This is a far superior game to the one that released way back in 2006.

I followed this guide with a couple differences: I enabled Questpaket (DO NOT play without this), Smart Texture Pack (appropriately dark Gothic theme), and CNQArenas (optional, but makes for slightly improved arena setup), and CNQMagicWeapons (also optional, but adds a lot more depth to item enchantments). I also recommend using some of the older monster skins, I think most looked a lot better in earlier games.

You have completely convinced me. I am so glad I fell off with 3 back in 2020 after I played 1 and 2 (masterpieces). I was only 9 hours in. Now I can truly play it the best way and actually enjoy it rather than get killed instantly by a wolf. This and BG 1 will be my "break" games. Can't wait. Cheers!

 

[Laz Sundays]

The opinion that Oblivion is a bad game is just fucking shallow. Especially if reasons for it include lvl scaling and other bullshit - if you are playing Bethesda games unmodded you're the problem. Everyone knows that their greatest value comes from community effort. Oblivion's story and setting is not bad at all.

But Gothic 3 's complete deviation from what Gothic IS, is simply not redeemable. Story's garbage too. And I started the series with G3.

 

[Bruno]

Gothic 3 with community patch is ok. The world building is good.

Oblivions level scaling kills the atmosphere.

 

[thesecret1]

Oblivion was worse, honestly, but Gothic 3 disappointed me far more, so I voted for that.

 

[Necrensha]

Oblivion is much dumber and less fun, but at least you could fix much of it's stupidity with mods.
Gothic 3 was easily 20 times more disappointing, kinda like seeing your father start to forget your name.

 

[Vic]

Gothic 3 was easily 20 times more disappointing, kinda like seeing your father start to forget your name.

Oddly specific.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Gothic 3 genuinely hurt.

 

[anvi]

I hate both but it's not even close... Oblivion has spell crafting and lots of quests and shit. It is at least a basic action RPG albeit a bad one. Gothic 3 however.... Omg. It is one of the worst games I've ever played.

 

[Sweeper]

The people voting for Oblivion are
I get it, we hate Bethesda, "even the shittiest Gothic installment is better than Oblivion" schtick, but come on guys... come on.

 

[Butter]

Oblivion had (a very profoundly negative) influence. Gothic 3 had none. Oblivion is worse.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Gothic 3 with community patch is ok. The world building is good.

"If I add some spices to this pile of shit without actually replacing anything in the core dish its perfectly edible guys!!!"

 

[Wasteland]

At first I couldn't understand why people in this thread were shitting on Oblivion. Then I realized that for some reason I had read the word "Morrowind" instead of Oblivion. Memories rushed back, and it all suddenly made sense.

That's how completely I'd erased Oblivion from my awareness. Any reference to the game skips through my brain to its much more competent predecessor. I recommend this approach for Gothic 3, too.

 

[Sweeper]

Oblivion had (a very profoundly negative) influence.

Where?

 

[Butter]

Oblivion had (a very profoundly negative) influence.

Where?

Do you remember a world before Horse Armor?

 

[Vic]

That's right, Oblivion was the game that "invented" microtransactions.

 

[Sweeper]

Oblivion had (a very profoundly negative) influence.

Where?

Do you remember a world before Horse Armor?

Yeah, but tbh I think not only was the influence of that little DLC vastly exaggerated, loot boxes turned out to be far more insidious, whilst DLCs became pretty consumer friendly, perhaps not as much as expansion packs but whatever.
In terms of actual gameplay Oblivion was a straight downgrade from Morrowind in many aspects, but it didn't do anything particularly noteworthy to have an influence over RPGs as a whole.
And yet, there was still enjoyment to be found there. The spellmaking is alright, poisons are fun, the magic system as a whole isn't that much worse than Morrowind. And you know what? Fuck it, I'll just say it. The need to min-max attributes, endurance in particular, in order to stay ahead of the curve is actually a net positive. I'd rather a game force me to be autistic than for it to be braindead easy. I still remember the pen and paper attribute tracking from my formative years, and I don't regret it one bit.
Everything you hoity toity, monocle wearing, fancy pants niggers throw at Oblivion fits Skyrim, much, much better.
Gothic 3 by comparison was and is, all bad, from start to finish, even without taking into account how great Gothic 2 is. It was a much greater fall than Morrowind to Oblivion.

 

[SixDead]

Obblivon had Nehrim and nude mods

 

[markec]

No matter how bad Gothic 3 is its still better then Oblivion.

 

[Drowed]

I've never played Gothic 3 without the Community Patch, so I can't really say how bad it really was. I've never finished it, but I think I put something like 20 to 30 hours total, adding all the times I tried to play it. I wouldn't say it's a good game, just kinda bland. The combat feels bad, but somehow I like the world, so I end up exploring it a bit until I get bored and decide that's enough.

But Oblivion is a game that, to this day, I've never played more than 2 or 3 hours. I get out of the sewer tutorial and play around for a bit, but I'm so mind-numbingly bored that I end up not playing anymore. And when I remember that I installed it, I just uninstall and forget about it. It's so bad that I don't even have motivation to search for mods for it. Years ago I found some mod pack that installed some visual and gameplay mods all at once, but it still looked bad anyways.

Then I guess I have to say that Oblivion is, indeed, worse. Gothic 3 may not be a good game, but it just cannot be that bad in comparison.

 

[Spike]

Gothic 3 with community patch is ok. The world building is good.

"If I add some spices to this pile of shit without actually replacing anything in the core dish its perfectly edible guys!!!"

Unfair. I don't think you are aware of just how much better the game could be today after 18 years of autistic fan patches (including quests, etc). I cannot personally attest yet, but I will be diving in this Christmas break (I am in professional school).

The opinion that Oblivion is a bad game is just fucking shallow. Especially if reasons for it include lvl scaling and other bullshit - if you are playing Bethesda games unmodded you're the problem. Everyone knows that their greatest value comes from community effort. Oblivion's story and setting is not bad at all.

But Gothic 3 's complete deviation from what Gothic IS, is simply not redeemable. Story's garbage too. And I started the series with G3.

This is simply not true. Oblivion is enjoyable up until you realize level scaling. Yes, it really is THAT bad. The quests are fun. It is fun to explore. But it's fun to explore G3 as well. Literally whenever I think of replaying Oblivion (which I never beat after 80 hours during Christmas break in 8th grade - sorry to make you grognards feel old), I instantly recoil and perish the thought because of that crime-against-humanity of phrases: level-scaling. Yes, it is really that bad. It ruins the ENTIRE roleplaying experience. Progression is ruined and thus the GAME part of the role-playing GAME is ruined. This illusion cannot be undone once it is realized. It's like being told God isn't real except it's actually true. Or Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas is a real person - so take that, Muslim kid from 3rd grade). In fact it is truth that is built into the frickin game by the devs themselves! It isn't some bug! If we are playing the "you gotta play it modded, bro" approach then fine. Gothic 3 is an actually fun video game with the fan changes over 18 years! Oblivion still blows giant chunks unless you play Nehrim which is a completely different game. The GAME of Gothic 3 is SAVED by community patches. I suppose you can save Oblivion by un-doing the level-scaling. This could provide for a fun rpg. Well at that point, it would actually be a decent romp probably, and the game could be salvaged. But, I would even say, in their unmodded states, Gothic 3 is STILL BETTER than Oblivion because despite its many sins and crimes, it still did not have the holocaust that is level-scaling. Hey, do you want your RPG to be...not an RPG? Boy do we have the system for you! The entire point of a video game is that you are essentially having a grand magic trick, an illusion if you will, being played on you. For the illusion to work, you need to feel a sense of "permanence" to the danger. This level 10 lizard bandit guy killed me because he is in a dangerous part of the world. Not because the game said it was time to adjust his stats precisely to my level so I get the proper drive-thru role-playing "experience". This illusion works until you start seeing glass-everything from random ass bandits in the forest. It's horrible. Gothic 3's death wolves are abysmal and probably caused an abortion somewhere, but Oblivion's ruining of its OWN systems caused a gaming holocaust. No, I am not freaking kidding. Mainstream RPGs have been so decline or at best have had decline tendencies because of this game and almost exclusively because of this game. Despite this, I love Oblivion. I love the ridiculous way the NPCs move, how they greet you and talk with you, I love how awkward everything about it is. But man, do I recoil at the thought of actually playing it again. The game is perfect for baby's first rpg (which it was for me). But nothing else. Every single thing I have played since is pretty much superior because of the expected rpg systems. It is unconscionable that a leveled-world has been a retro feature in rpgs for 16 years and counting. That should not be something you put on the box! It should be implied! We should all be playing by the same rules and assumptions! If I was a nerd in the 1980s or 1990s growing up and someone told me about level-scaling and its future prominence, I think I might actually kill myself to save myself from such a wretched future. Gothic 3 vanilla is a disappointment but its systems are sort of there and can be enjoyed. Oblivion completely breaks and the illusion is completely ruined (once again, the preservation of that illusion is the entire point of playing a game) the moment you realize what is going on. And you just sort of give up forever and end up playing Divinity II, or Dragon's Dogma, or Outward, or anything but this.