Oblivion first time modded or vanilla

[Valdetiosi]

Modding Oblivion again (it's been a couple of years and I have a problem) and I'm just going to use this thread as a spot to throw out some thoughts about various mods for anyone interested in doing the same.

Actually going through same progress, but if anything just to record and post all the features of Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul. Been using it ever since it was released 2012 and tbh every other overhaul or gameplay mod I have ignored because of it.

Want to give your thoughts about it? I think the biggest sell for me is due to how configurable it is compared to many other overhauls, and just by simple way of editing few lines of text.

 

[BruceVC]

Modding Oblivion again (it's been a couple of years and I have a problem) and I'm just going to use this thread as a spot to throw out some thoughts about various mods for anyone interested in doing the same.

Actually going through same progress, but if anything just to record and post all the features of Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul. Been using it ever since it was released 2012 and tbh every other overhaul or gameplay mod I have ignored because of it.

Want to give your thoughts about it? I think the biggest sell for me is due to how configurable it is compared to many other overhauls, and just by simple way of editing few lines of text.

What guide do you use for editing Maskar, do you use the official PDF or something else ?

And can you share the changes you make for playing Oblivion just from a high level perspective?

 

[Valdetiosi]

What guide do you use for editing Maskar, do you use the official PDF or something else ?

I just edit what I feel like editing. The ini has reads out what values does what.

And can you share the changes you make for playing Oblivion just from a high level perspective?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

 

[BruceVC]

What guide do you use for editing Maskar, do you use the official PDF or something else ?

I just edit what I feel like editing. The ini has reads out what values does what.

And can you share the changes you make for playing Oblivion just from a high level perspective?

I don't understand what you mean by this.

Oh sorry, I wasnt clear. What changes do you make using Maskar, for example in OOO you can slowdown your level advancement which makes the game more challenging because level advancement is harder
Im just want to understand how Maskar changes the game in a better way?

 

[Valdetiosi]

for example in OOO you can slowdown your level advancement which makes the game more challenging because level advancement is harder

You can do that in Maskar's Overhaul, too.

But as for what changes, I disable spider spawns, make faction invasion speed slightly faster, unlevel container and merchant inventory, allow player to climb walls, disable crafting and skill based equipment restriction. I also set maximum levels for most actors so my player character ends up over leveling them in the end when I do end up maxing out all my skills.

 

[Funposter]

I was using Vortex Mod Manager but I switched to Wyre Bash, OBMM and I used TES4EDIT to clean my mods

What mod manager do you use for Oblivion? I really experimented and tried different mod managers but what I am doing is the following

• I use LOOT for the load order and to report on mods that need to be cleaned I used TES4EDIT
• I use Wyre Bash as my main mod manager and I used OBMM to run archive validation checks

But what is your advice around how to manage my Oblivion mod experience and I dont know if you know Wyre Bash but what is the advantage of creating a Bashed Patch? When I did create one and ran the game from within Wyre Bash the game crashed straight away on the Bethesda logo on startup so I stopped trying to use it

mastroego and other Codex members recommended MO2 but that was for Skyrim and Im not sure how applicable it is for Oblivion ?

I'm using Mod Organiser 2 as my primary mod manager, and then running the various .exe files for Wrye Bash (bashed patch and editing masters), BOSS (load order) and TES4LODGEN from within MO2. I've just used Wyre Bash before, which also works very well, but MO2 has a nice user interface so it edges out Wrye Bash for being the thing you'll spend most of your time looking at. I haven't touched OBMM since I'm avoiding mods that use that format, although there's not really any that you need to use now since they probably have modern replacements.

Creating a bashed patch has two primary advantages. The first is that you're able to merge records such as edits to NPCs and Levelled Lists from different mods so that they all play nicely. Say you have a mod that adds Daedric armour to a character, and then another that adds a Daedric Longsword, whichever is loaded last will have its effects applied. The bashed patch ensures the inventories are merged. This is also very important if you're using Oblivion Character Overhaul, so that you can ensure characters keep their updated appearance if you make any other edits to them. Mixaa77's Radiant AI mod is a good example of something that touches a huge amount of NPCs, so you'd use a bashed patch for that and OCOv2.

The bashed patch also lets you merge patches into it, reducing the amount of active plugins. Wrye Bash usually knows what it's doing, so unless a patch has specific directions about whether or not to merge, you're usually safe to just click Yes through the wizard and you'll find yourself with a reduced load order.

I am using about 120 mods that include OOO and Martigens Monster Mod, do you suspect any potential conflicts later on? I did loads of research of these mod managers but their is so much information out their its hard to find the best mod manager to troubleshoot mods and which one is the best for Oblivion ?

My modlist is VERY vanilla at the moment, since I've been focusing on overhauling graphics and was messing around with Unique Landscapes for a couple of days. I have less than 40 plugins active after creating a bashed patch (and that was mainly to import water heights for some UL stuff). OOO was the standard Oblivion overhaul for a long time but it just isn't stable because of how script heavy it is, and I dislike a lot of the assets it uses. Martigen's Monster Mod is even worse. It's extremely low quality and I would never recommend it to anyone. A modern Oblivion install should stick with Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul (very overhauled) or Ascension (vanilla+). You could stick with OOO if you want, but it does have compatibility issues and you'll need to build your load order around it.

There's still some debate about which mod manager is BEST for Oblivion due to how janky everything is. I've found MO2 to work perfectly this time around, which wasn't the case a few years ago.

 

[Funposter]

Modding Oblivion again (it's been a couple of years and I have a problem) and I'm just going to use this thread as a spot to throw out some thoughts about various mods for anyone interested in doing the same.

Actually going through same progress, but if anything just to record and post all the features of Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul. Been using it ever since it was released 2012 and tbh every other overhaul or gameplay mod I have ignored because of it.

Want to give your thoughts about it? I think the biggest sell for me is due to how configurable it is compared to many other overhauls, and just by simple way of editing few lines of text.

I like MOO because, as you said, it's extremely customizable. There's a large host of features that I'm not particularly interested in (faction invasions, randomly generated dungeons, animal taming, most of the crafting) but you can just disable those and get access to the parts of the mod I want. Those being the overhaul fix to the levelled lists so Oblivion is less static, new creature spawns, smithing (crafting I actually enjoy), non-levelled quest rewards (or making them level with you) and as mentioned in a previous post, I really like the concept of Slayer damage and hope it gets updated.

The one big bone I have to pick with MOO is due to how algorithmic it is, you see wonky stuff happen sometimes. Dungeon difficulty is determined by how close a dungeon is to a city, which is great for making some random Ayleid ruin up in the Colovian Highlands really dangerous, but it can have unintended consequences. There's a monster cave on the road to Skingrad (like, RIGHT ON THE ROAD) which is considered far enough away from civilisation to spawn Land Dreughs etc. which will rape you if you decide to walk there. Just an example of how it can be wonky and why a handplaced approach would work better.

Overall, a great mod though. Read the documentation and figure out which stuff you want!

 

[BruceVC]

I was using Vortex Mod Manager but I switched to Wyre Bash, OBMM and I used TES4EDIT to clean my mods

What mod manager do you use for Oblivion? I really experimented and tried different mod managers but what I am doing is the following

• I use LOOT for the load order and to report on mods that need to be cleaned I used TES4EDIT
• I use Wyre Bash as my main mod manager and I used OBMM to run archive validation checks

But what is your advice around how to manage my Oblivion mod experience and I dont know if you know Wyre Bash but what is the advantage of creating a Bashed Patch? When I did create one and ran the game from within Wyre Bash the game crashed straight away on the Bethesda logo on startup so I stopped trying to use it

mastroego and other Codex members recommended MO2 but that was for Skyrim and Im not sure how applicable it is for Oblivion ?

I'm using Mod Organiser 2 as my primary mod manager, and then running the various .exe files for Wrye Bash (bashed patch and editing masters), BOSS (load order) and TES4LODGEN from within MO2. I've just used Wyre Bash before, which also works very well, but MO2 has a nice user interface so it edges out Wrye Bash for being the thing you'll spend most of your time looking at. I haven't touched OBMM since I'm avoiding mods that use that format, although there's not really any that you need to use now since they probably have modern replacements.

Creating a bashed patch has two primary advantages. The first is that you're able to merge records such as edits to NPCs and Levelled Lists from different mods so that they all play nicely. Say you have a mod that adds Daedric armour to a character, and then another that adds a Daedric Longsword, whichever is loaded last will have its effects applied. The bashed patch ensures the inventories are merged. This is also very important if you're using Oblivion Character Overhaul, so that you can ensure characters keep their updated appearance if you make any other edits to them. Mixaa77's Radiant AI mod is a good example of something that touches a huge amount of NPCs, so you'd use a bashed patch for that and OCOv2.

The bashed patch also lets you merge patches into it, reducing the amount of active plugins. Wrye Bash usually knows what it's doing, so unless a patch has specific directions about whether or not to merge, you're usually safe to just click Yes through the wizard and you'll find yourself with a reduced load order.

I am using about 120 mods that include OOO and Martigens Monster Mod, do you suspect any potential conflicts later on? I did loads of research of these mod managers but their is so much information out their its hard to find the best mod manager to troubleshoot mods and which one is the best for Oblivion ?

My modlist is VERY vanilla at the moment, since I've been focusing on overhauling graphics and was messing around with Unique Landscapes for a couple of days. I have less than 40 plugins active after creating a bashed patch (and that was mainly to import water heights for some UL stuff). OOO was the standard Oblivion overhaul for a long time but it just isn't stable because of how script heavy it is, and I dislike a lot of the assets it uses. Martigen's Monster Mod is even worse. It's extremely low quality and I would never recommend it to anyone. A modern Oblivion install should stick with Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul (very overhauled) or Ascension (vanilla+). You could stick with OOO if you want, but it does have compatibility issues and you'll need to build your load order around it.

There's still some debate about which mod manager is BEST for Oblivion due to how janky everything is. I've found MO2 to work perfectly this time around, which wasn't the case a few years ago.

Thanks for the feedback, its been very useful. I have a couple more questions if you dont mind

Mod managers like LOOT have an auto-loading feature so if for example I keep using OOO would it automatically " fix " my load order or must I do it manually? I just want to clarify what you mean by " build your load order around it " because load order seems automated?

And then if you use a Bashed Patch in Wyre and you run the game with Wyre would it only include the mods that are part of the Patch because I noticed when I was creating different patches I would sometimes get a warning that said something like " these mods must be disabled to be part of Patch " ( or something similar )

And then can you add mods during the game or should you start a new game when you want to add new mods. I realize you should never remove mods in the middle of the a game because that can definitely crash\corrupt your save games

And lastly Wyre Bach has a Plugin Checker tool that I use as a troubleshooter. Would you recommend it from a reporting perspective ?

 

[Funposter]

Thanks for the feedback, its been very useful. I have a couple more questions if you dont mind

Mod managers like LOOT have an auto-loading feature so if for example I keep using OOO would it automatically " fix " my load order or must I do it manually? I just want to clarify what you mean by " build your load order around it " because load order seems automated?

When I say "build your load order around", what I mean is that OOO is a massive overhaul and it touches quite a lot of aspects of the game, so it requires a lot of compatibility patches. This means that you'll either have loads of plugins just to make OOO play nice with other mods, or that you'll need to forgo interesting/quality mods because they conflict with OOO in some way. I'm not sure how up-to-date the Loot masterlist is (or BOSS, for that matter) but running it should be enough to sort out basic load order and then I always just give it a quick look to make sure anything that should be sitting at the top is there.

And then if you use a Bashed Patch in Wyre and you run the game with Wyre would it only include the mods that are part of the Patch because I noticed when I was creating different patches I would sometimes get a warning that said something like " these mods must be disabled to be part of Patch " ( or something similar )

The disabled plugins become a part of the patch and then are disabled so that you cut down on the plugin limit. So, suppose my load order is.

1. Oblivion.esm
2. DLCShiveringIsles.esp
3. Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp
4. Kart Hair Replace 01.esp
5. NPC Hair Matches Beard.esp

If I run the bashed patch, what would happen is that the hair and beard mods get deactivated and merged into the bashed patch. My load order is now:

1. Oblivion.esm
2. DLCShiveringIsles.esp
3. Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp
x. Kart Hair Replace 01.esp
x. NPC Hair Matches Beard.esp
4. Bashed Patch.esp

I've cut down my number of plugins from 5 to 4, and running the game through Wrye Bash, MO2 etc. it plays normally with the activated plugins.

And then can you add mods during the game or should you start a new game when you want to add new mods. I realize you should never remove mods in the middle of the a game because that can definitely crash\corrupt your save games

Adding mods is usually safe during the middle of a playthrough unless they're some sort of massive overhaul to an area, town, etc. that might disrupt the behaviour of NPCs who were present. Installing a mod that edits a quest you're currently in the middle of doing would probably be a bad idea too. Other than that, it's usually fine. Uninstalling mods mid-playthrough is usually a bad idea because they can leave behind scripts, fuck with door markers, or otherwise change information in the game that then doesn't get changed back when the plugin is removed. My advice is to 100% sort out your load order and test is properly before you start a playthrough, but if you see something good (maybe a new mod that wasn't released before your playthrough started) adding it is usually fine.

And lastly Wyre Bach has a Plugin Checker tool that I use as a troubleshooter. Would you recommend it from a reporting perspective ?

Haven't used it lol

 

[BruceVC]

Thanks for the feedback, its been very useful. I have a couple more questions if you dont mind

Mod managers like LOOT have an auto-loading feature so if for example I keep using OOO would it automatically " fix " my load order or must I do it manually? I just want to clarify what you mean by " build your load order around it " because load order seems automated?

When I say "build your load order around", what I mean is that OOO is a massive overhaul and it touches quite a lot of aspects of the game, so it requires a lot of compatibility patches. This means that you'll either have loads of plugins just to make OOO play nice with other mods, or that you'll need to forgo interesting/quality mods because they conflict with OOO in some way. I'm not sure how up-to-date the Loot masterlist is (or BOSS, for that matter) but running it should be enough to sort out basic load order and then I always just give it a quick look to make sure anything that should be sitting at the top is there.

And then if you use a Bashed Patch in Wyre and you run the game with Wyre would it only include the mods that are part of the Patch because I noticed when I was creating different patches I would sometimes get a warning that said something like " these mods must be disabled to be part of Patch " ( or something similar )

The disabled plugins become a part of the patch and then are disabled so that you cut down on the plugin limit. So, suppose my load order is.

1. Oblivion.esm
2. DLCShiveringIsles.esp
3. Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp
4. Kart Hair Replace 01.esp
5. NPC Hair Matches Beard.esp

If I run the bashed patch, what would happen is that the hair and beard mods get deactivated and merged into the bashed patch. My load order is now:

1. Oblivion.esm
2. DLCShiveringIsles.esp
3. Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp
x. Kart Hair Replace 01.esp
x. NPC Hair Matches Beard.esp
4. Bashed Patch.esp

I've cut down my number of plugins from 5 to 4, and running the game through Wrye Bash, MO2 etc. it plays normally with the activated plugins.

And then can you add mods during the game or should you start a new game when you want to add new mods. I realize you should never remove mods in the middle of the a game because that can definitely crash\corrupt your save games

Adding mods is usually safe during the middle of a playthrough unless they're some sort of massive overhaul to an area, town, etc. that might disrupt the behaviour of NPCs who were present. Installing a mod that edits a quest you're currently in the middle of doing would probably be a bad idea too. Other than that, it's usually fine. Uninstalling mods mid-playthrough is usually a bad idea because they can leave behind scripts, fuck with door markers, or otherwise change information in the game that then doesn't get changed back when the plugin is removed. My advice is to 100% sort out your load order and test is properly before you start a playthrough, but if you see something good (maybe a new mod that wasn't released before your playthrough started) adding it is usually fine.

And lastly Wyre Bach has a Plugin Checker tool that I use as a troubleshooter. Would you recommend it from a reporting perspective ?

Haven't used it lol

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, I have learnt a lot from your insights

I am flying back to Cpt today because of rising Covid cases in my family after our Easter holiday together so I should be playing Oblivion later today

 

[Ryzer]

I should be playing Oblivion later today

My condolences.

 

[BruceVC]

I should be playing Oblivion later today

My condolences.

I realize many Codex members dont like Oblivion but its an acquired taste but once you enjoy it you love it for life

As Funposter said exploring the vastness of the game world and its intrinsic beauty and challengers from monsters makes Oblivion a worthwhile gaming journey

 

[Funposter]

I should be playing Oblivion later today

My condolences.

I realize many Codex members dont like Oblivion but its an acquired taste but once you enjoy it you love it for life

As Funposter said exploring the vastness of the game world and its intrinsic beauty and challengers from monsters makes Oblivion a worthwhile gaming journey

I don't know if I'd go as far to say that it's "worthwhile". I like modding Oblivion because I played it as a thirteen year old, so it's like a warm, comfy blanket. I like returning to it every now and then due to nostalgia, even though I played it at the time with a feeling of disappointment due to seeing it as a massive downgrade from Morrowind. The vastness of the game world is a big part of it though, especially with the Jeremy Soule soundtrack and the sort of "fairytale" aesthetic to not just the visuals, but all of the writing and quests as well. It's a bright, colourful world in which there is pretty much no ethnic, political or religious strife, which is in stark contrast to both Morrowind and Skyrim. For better or worse, that gives the game its own unique identity within the series and the wider RPG genre as a whole.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Oblivion krew represent

 

[Funposter]

A quick rundown of NewCity series of mods by a team of Russians post under the tag 'Tbldra'.

Did I mention that these were Russian modders? That should give you a clue as to how they do things, because I usually associate Russian TES modding with excess. Take a look at The Symphony to see what I mean. Anyway, these overhaul Leyawiin, Bravil, Anvil and the IC Waterfront at the moment, with English translations by the Unique Landscapes custodian, Vorians. These are definitely not lightweight mods, and should be viewed as an alternative to the absolutely bonkers Better Cities, which is infamous for being a lore-unfriendly, poorly voice acting, performance-raping catastrophe that people like because they have bad taste and it's BIG. The bigness of Better Cities is extraordinary, and NewCity fortunately shows a bit more restraint. Anyway, I'll go over the positives and negatives of the collection as a whole, firstly, and then provide some quick notes about the individual plugins.

• The cardinal sin of visual clutter rears its ugly head. Not all of it is of the idiotic statue variety, and I'd say that a good 90% of it is actually appropriate and looks really good. The problem is that the devs are either assuming that people are playing unmodded Oblivion in 2022 (lmao) or that people will be happy trudging through Anvil at 9 fps while using Oblivion Reloaded's exterior shadows. There's a lot of containers piled up in waterfront areas in logical ways, some nice windows dressing props (mudcrabs with axes inside them, hanging slaughterfish etc.) but the Oblivion engine just cannot handle the sheer density of meshes. You have market stalls which feature dozens of vegetable models, and in terms of performance, it all starts to add up.
• Fucking doors that don't lead anywhere. It's not that big of a deal, since it mostly occurs with things like ships (which may as well be props) but it breaks from the vanilla conventions of how these things are handled.
• Naming conventions get thrown out the window for "generic" NPCs who get names like 'Blacksmith' or 'Sailor'. You don't need to name NPCs after their occupation, I can tell that by where they hang out, what they wear or what they're doing during the day. TES name generators have been around for like 20 years. Maybe it's a Russian thing, in this case, since idk how well TES naming conventions translate to Cyrillic. There are also interiors named simply "hut" or something similar, rather than being named after the NPC who inhabits them. This is especially confusing because it's not consistent. Some things are named correctly, others aren't.
• Minor use of non-vanilla assets, which is annoying, but the positive here is that they are mostly vanilla assets so your texture replacers will work.
• The changes or additions to locations are, by and large, logical according to what the town either has as its prescribed theme (Bravil is a shithole, Anvil is a port city) or what it should be doing (Leyawiin SHOULD be a port city).
• Slightly related to visual clutter of the statue variety, but the small graveyard in Bravil uses a scaled down Nocturnal statue as its centrepiece. I really dislike this sort of thing, because it's means the mod author said "oh yeah, crows go with a graveyard!" instead of even thinking about it for two seconds. A statue of Nocturnal does not belong in the graveyard of a cathedral of Mara, and if a Daedra were to be associated with death, it would surely be Namira. This sort of things is really indicative of where the mod author's head is at.
• Inclusion of non-vanilla services that feel out of place, such as banks. Gold has no weight, so banks are un-needed. Yes, Cyrodiil should logically have banks, but we're not dealing with reality. Stop trying to turn the game into something it's not.

For some more specific notes:

• Leyawiin: Feels like the city is too opulent due to the canals, lots of bare grass, immediately accosted by a quest as you enter the city. It all just feels too up-market for a city built on top of a swamp. Some statue clutter at the cathedral.
• Anvil: This first complaint is very autistic, but the mod tries to make Anvil more "seaside" by introducing palm trees, while simultaneously planting Cupressus sempervirens alongside them. Not only do these not match one another aesthetically, but they don't occur naturally together in the real world. It's either Hammerfell (palms) or real-world Italy (cypress), not both. Dockside is extra cluttered which becomes a nightmare, because this is already one of the most intensive areas in the vanilla game due to the amount of AI packages in an exterior zone.
• Bravil: Less specific complaints here, but again we get buildings whose only reason to exist is for the mod author's quest idea. Why would Bravil have a building housing six NPCs simply called 'Mercenary', especially if the town has a Fighter's Guild branch. The Fighter's Guild quest is literally about the competition between a rival mercenary group. This mod doesn't care. There's also a Colovian Traders outside of Colovia for some reason. Presumably the mod author did not know why it was named as such.
• IC Waterfront: Probably the least objectionable of the lot, but it doesn't really do anything that Redbag's less intensive overhaul to the IC Waterfront doesn't do just as well. Has a tavern with looping tavern ambience in the background. Again, not my thing. Another instance of 'Colovian Traders' in Nibenay. An NPC at an added Chapel of Kynareth uses the 'Reverend' title, which doesn't appear anywhere in the vanilla game although that could be a translation issue on Vorians' behalf (I'd bet the Russian translates to Father).

I'd describe it as a series of mods which thinks Oblivion can be turned into The Witcher 3, if that makes sense. The tavern ambience, the generic-ness of many of the NPCs, the huge amount of clutter serving as window dressing. It all makes it feel like you're wandering around Novigrad in The Witcher 3, but in an engine that was never designed to handle it. Sadly, I'd say you should avoid these, and that means we're still missing sensible extensions to, or overhauls of, the vanilla cities.

 

[TedNugent]

I played it with OOO IIRC the first time I played and it was still an unholy broken mess. Just fucking don't.

There is atmosphere there, and a certain peacefulness that I can appreciate. I just stay the fuck away from BethSoft, all because I played this game first. First and last.

I hear people talk about "Fallout" 3 and 4 and just roll my eyes.

The only reason to play one of these games is to sandbox it. That's it. If you're not doing that, just stop what you're doing.

 

[Valdetiosi]

snip

Agreed. My main appeal is that it adds a lot more to unpredictability of spawns, something which other overhauls can't really do justice. Using OOO I know that one cave will always have bandits of appropriate level, never changing. Fransesco's is more or less same as vanilla, but lacks the stuff Maskar's mod does.
Think I did this funny comparison with 2 characters, both high and low level on one fort.

Spoiler

 

[Funposter]

Region Revive - Lake Rumare aka finally a good fucking settlement mod.

Expands Weye from being a single building to about six or seven, making it a proper village at the entrance to the Imperial Isle instead of an inn and a home housing a quest-giver. Also dots small farms and hamlets around the City Isle similar to the Unique Landscapes plugin but they're located in better positions. No more farmers getting attacked by the bandits at Sinkhole Cave. There are also farms on the outer shores of Lake Rumare with a couple of simple quests for the player to do, stuff like farmers being concerned about wolves killing their sheep. I like this kind of thing, since it's what low level players should logically be doing around the Imperial City when they first start the game, rather than storming into an Oblivion Gate at Kvatch. There's also a priory added to the eastern side of the City Isle with a couple of chapel-y quests for you to do, one of which is fairly high level (or it was level-scaled, idk lol, tested on Level 16 character). Oh, and the quests don't have quest markers for people who like that sort of thing. I can happily recommend this one. It doesn't have too many big landscape edits and it uses entirely vanilla assets, so it's way less performance intensive than UL.

Redbag's Imperial City - 2020 Edition

14 new homes with interiors, 24 new NPCs and a decent amount of clutter added to the IC and Waterfront without overloading your system. For this reason it works very well with a heavily modded setup. The best additions are to the IC Waterfront, adding a couple of new ships (one of which has a functioning interior, hooray!) and six new homes which help to make the Waterfront feel more slummy. Adds a few tombstones to the little peninsula (if that's an apt description) where NewCity - IC Waterfront added an entire chapel, to give you an idea of how lowkey the changes are, in comparison. Many of the new Waterfront NPCs actually peddle their wares at newly added stalls in the Market District, so it also have more of a "market" feel now, instead of just being a collection of established stores. Minor conflict with Imperial City Canal Overhaul due to some landscape edits and a couple of barrels being placed on a bridge whose shape changes. Advice, load Canal overhaul above Redbag's mod, create bashed patch to fix a "tear" in the water, and just disable the two offending barrels. You now have a very nice Imperial City.

Bravil Waterfront

Another modern mod that does what so many mods from a decade ago failed to do satisfactorily. Small waterfront added to Bravil with 10 new NPCs and some edits to vanilla NPC's schedules. Also has some neat changes to AI packages to reflect changes to the world, like a character who starts equipping their armour once the Oblivion Crisis properly begins, and sailors who stop drinking and start sparring for the duration that the Bravil Oblivion Gate is open. Can be a bit of a performance drain with a modded setup since the interior of the lighthouse isn't an interior cell, so you have a lot of objects being loaded. The little sailing boats that get added in a few spots can also fit through Bravil's canal, so it's all pretty logical.

SupreMe Overhaul

Less of an "overhaul" and more of a modular collection of gameplay edits/additions and QoL features. Fixes guards to be less psychic, introduces lock bashing with power attacks that will steadily degrade lock quality, resisting arrest will now lead to guards knocking you out and taking you to jail if they strike the "killing" blow, infinite combat is fixed by setting enemies to an MGS-style 'Alert' phase if you can avoid line-of-sight for 10 seconds, Persuasion is fixed somewhat in the style of many other mods (no more wheel, select logical options, Taunt added back as an option etc.) and it also fixes the vanilla levelled list problem by allowing ALL gear and creatures to spawn, rather than just those which are 8 levels or less below the player (this is why Iron gear all but disappears by Level 10 and so on). Can turn features on and off using the ini file. A nice alternative to a more wide-reaching overhaul like Maskar's or OOO, since it does a bit less and is therefore very compatible.

 

[BruceVC]

A quick rundown of NewCity series of mods by a team of Russians post under the tag 'Tbldra'.

Did I mention that these were Russian modders? That should give you a clue as to how they do things, because I usually associate Russian TES modding with excess. Take a look at The Symphony to see what I mean. Anyway, these overhaul Leyawiin, Bravil, Anvil and the IC Waterfront at the moment, with English translations by the Unique Landscapes custodian, Vorians. These are definitely not lightweight mods, and should be viewed as an alternative to the absolutely bonkers Better Cities, which is infamous for being a lore-unfriendly, poorly voice acting, performance-raping catastrophe that people like because they have bad taste and it's BIG. The bigness of Better Cities is extraordinary, and NewCity fortunately shows a bit more restraint. Anyway, I'll go over the positives and negatives of the collection as a whole, firstly, and then provide some quick notes about the individual plugins.

• The cardinal sin of visual clutter rears its ugly head. Not all of it is of the idiotic statue variety, and I'd say that a good 90% of it is actually appropriate and looks really good. The problem is that the devs are either assuming that people are playing unmodded Oblivion in 2022 (lmao) or that people will be happy trudging through Anvil at 9 fps while using Oblivion Reloaded's exterior shadows. There's a lot of containers piled up in waterfront areas in logical ways, some nice windows dressing props (mudcrabs with axes inside them, hanging slaughterfish etc.) but the Oblivion engine just cannot handle the sheer density of meshes. You have market stalls which feature dozens of vegetable models, and in terms of performance, it all starts to add up.
• Fucking doors that don't lead anywhere. It's not that big of a deal, since it mostly occurs with things like ships (which may as well be props) but it breaks from the vanilla conventions of how these things are handled.
• Naming conventions get thrown out the window for "generic" NPCs who get names like 'Blacksmith' or 'Sailor'. You don't need to name NPCs after their occupation, I can tell that by where they hang out, what they wear or what they're doing during the day. TES name generators have been around for like 20 years. Maybe it's a Russian thing, in this case, since idk how well TES naming conventions translate to Cyrillic. There are also interiors named simply "hut" or something similar, rather than being named after the NPC who inhabits them. This is especially confusing because it's not consistent. Some things are named correctly, others aren't.
• Minor use of non-vanilla assets, which is annoying, but the positive here is that they are mostly vanilla assets so your texture replacers will work.
• The changes or additions to locations are, by and large, logical according to what the town either has as its prescribed theme (Bravil is a shithole, Anvil is a port city) or what it should be doing (Leyawiin SHOULD be a port city).
• Slightly related to visual clutter of the statue variety, but the small graveyard in Bravil uses a scaled down Nocturnal statue as its centrepiece. I really dislike this sort of thing, because it's means the mod author said "oh yeah, crows go with a graveyard!" instead of even thinking about it for two seconds. A statue of Nocturnal does not belong in the graveyard of a cathedral of Mara, and if a Daedra were to be associated with death, it would surely be Namira. This sort of things is really indicative of where the mod author's head is at.
• Inclusion of non-vanilla services that feel out of place, such as banks. Gold has no weight, so banks are un-needed. Yes, Cyrodiil should logically have banks, but we're not dealing with reality. Stop trying to turn the game into something it's not.

For some more specific notes:

• Leyawiin: Feels like the city is too opulent due to the canals, lots of bare grass, immediately accosted by a quest as you enter the city. It all just feels too up-market for a city built on top of a swamp. Some statue clutter at the cathedral.
• Anvil: This first complaint is very autistic, but the mod tries to make Anvil more "seaside" by introducing palm trees, while simultaneously planting Cupressus sempervirens alongside them. Not only do these not match one another aesthetically, but they don't occur naturally together in the real world. It's either Hammerfell (palms) or real-world Italy (cypress), not both. Dockside is extra cluttered which becomes a nightmare, because this is already one of the most intensive areas in the vanilla game due to the amount of AI packages in an exterior zone.
• Bravil: Less specific complaints here, but again we get buildings whose only reason to exist is for the mod author's quest idea. Why would Bravil have a building housing six NPCs simply called 'Mercenary', especially if the town has a Fighter's Guild branch. The Fighter's Guild quest is literally about the competition between a rival mercenary group. This mod doesn't care. There's also a Colovian Traders outside of Colovia for some reason. Presumably the mod author did not know why it was named as such.
• IC Waterfront: Probably the least objectionable of the lot, but it doesn't really do anything that Redbag's less intensive overhaul to the IC Waterfront doesn't do just as well. Has a tavern with looping tavern ambience in the background. Again, not my thing. Another instance of 'Colovian Traders' in Nibenay. An NPC at an added Chapel of Kynareth uses the 'Reverend' title, which doesn't appear anywhere in the vanilla game although that could be a translation issue on Vorians' behalf (I'd bet the Russian translates to Father).

I'd describe it as a series of mods which thinks Oblivion can be turned into The Witcher 3, if that makes sense. The tavern ambience, the generic-ness of many of the NPCs, the huge amount of clutter serving as window dressing. It all makes it feel like you're wandering around Novigrad in The Witcher 3, but in an engine that was never designed to handle it. Sadly, I'd say you should avoid these, and that means we're still missing sensible extensions to, or overhauls of, the vanilla cities.

Its so interesting you bring up Better Cities as problematic. When I mentioned earlier I had several problems one of things that kept causing crashes in the Imperial Sector, like the Elven quarter, was Better Cities or its various supporting mods. By disabling this mod it stopped in the Imperial City

I was a little upset because it looked like a good mod but after your criticism of it I do not consider myself missing out on anything significant

So I disabled it in Wyre and it stopped htat

 

[Funposter]

Its so interesting you bring up Better Cities as problematic. When I mentioned earlier I had several problems one of things that kept causing crashes in the Imperial Sector, like the Elven quarter, was Better Cities or its various supporting mods. By disabling this mod it stopped in the Imperial City

I was a little upset because it looked like a good mod but after your criticism of it I do not consider myself missing out on anything significant

So I disabled it in Wyre and it stopped htat

Better Cities is notorious for being a very "moddy" mod, and it also has no unifying vision other than "bigness" because it's actually a compilation of overhauls by various authors, which is the same problem that Unique Landscapes has. The difference between BC and UL is that it's very easy to install a few UL modules that don't really touch anything else, whereas BC will get its grubby hands all over your playthrough since you spend so much time in and around cities. There's often too much going on for the engine to handle, crashes are a common experience among modders and it's one of those mods that stakes its reputation primarily on having been updated and downloaded for so long. It's on the first page for Most Endorsements on Nexus, so people will inevitably install it when they return to Oblivion or want to mod it for the first time, experience a metric ton of CTDs with graphics mods installed, and then basically give up.

 

[BruceVC]

Funposter
Here is my mod list exported from Wyre, if you or anyone else has the time or interest I would appreciate any views about mods I shouldnt be using or any problems around my mods that you aware of. Im know you said OOO is not great but its working for me but I will disable it if I need to reduce the number of CTD

Active Mod Files:

00 Oblivion.esm
01 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm [Version 1.5.13]
02 Knights - Revelation.esm
03 Old School Dungeons.esm
04 DrowRacesofFaerun.esm
05 Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp [Version 3.5.7]
06 UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp [Version 1.0.0]
07 Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp
08 DLCShiveringIsles.esp
09 Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp [Version 1.6.0]
0A DLCHorseArmor.esp
0B DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.9]
0C DLCOrrery.esp
0D DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.7]
0E DLCVileLair.esp
0F DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.11]
10 DLCMehrunesRazor.esp
11 DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.8]
12 DLCSpellTomes.esp
13 DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.1]
14 DLCThievesDen.esp
15 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.15]
16 DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp [Version 1.0.14]
17 DLCBattlehornCastle.esp
18 DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.12]
19 DLCFrostcrag.esp
1A DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp [Version 1.0.10]
1B Knights.esp
1C Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp [Version 1.5.13]
1D OOOShiveringIsles.esp
1E Oblivion Uncut.esp
1F OOOEquipmentAddon.esp
20 Balanced NPC Level Cap.esp
21 Enhanced Vegetation SI.esp
22 Simple Primary Needs.esp
23 Level_Rates_Modified_x2.esp
24 More Magical Mages Guilds Clean.esp
25 Living Economy - Items.esp
26 OOO-Armor_Perks_WearRate_Repair.esp [Version 1.33]
27 OOO-BirthSigns.esp [Version 1.33]
28 OOO-Level_Normal.esp [Version 1.33]
29 OOO-Magic_Game_Settings.esp [Version 1.33]
2A OOO-Respawn_Two_Week.esp [Version 1.33]
2B OOO-ThiefGuild_Difficult.esp [Version 1.33]
2C Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul - No Daedric Items.esp
2D OOOCreatureAddons.esp
2E MoreMonsters.esp
2F VToy.esp
30 OOO-Magic_Effects+Spells.esp [Version 1.33]
31 Living Economy.esp
32 OOO-Magic_Script_Effect_Fix.esp [Version 1.33]
33 Knights - Revelation.esp
34 Weapon Expansion Pack for Oblivion Nthusiasts.esp
35 OOO-Water_Weeds.esp [Version 1.33]
36 DMRA Skimpy Armor Expanded.esp
37 RandomRoadEncounters.esp
38 Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul - Knights of Nine.esp
39 Immersive Weapons.esp
3A OOO-DaedraLord_Quests.esp [Version 1.33]
3B VampireMod.esp
3C Nude Humanlike Spriggan Tweaked.esp
3D The Vorpal Blade.esp
3E 1stAlchemistCompanionGirl.esp
3F Glowing Wonders.esp
40 zES Nagaia Molag.esp
41 vampirelordr.esp
42 Enhanced Water v2.0 HD.esp
43 Teleportation Services.esp
44 Trolls Under Bridges.esp
45 Viconia.esp
46 MidasSpells.esp
47 Beautiful People.esp
48 Giants.esp
49 Daedra Roam Cyrodiil Wilderness.esp
4A sanguineflair2.esp
4B Mythical Creatures - Frost Troll.esp
4C Mythical Creatures - Cyclops.esp
4D PTFallingStars.esp
4E RatcatcherCaverns.esp
4F Map Marker Overhaul.esp [Version 3.9.3]
50 OOO-Map_Markers_Stock.esp [Version 1.33]
51 Better minotaurs.esp
52 Black and Daedric Unicorn's.esp
53 Companion Neeshka.esp
54 Lilarcor.esp [Version 0.9.4.9]
55 DB-The Forgotten Sewers.esp
56 Maskar's Oblivion Overhaul.esp [Version 4.9.4.2]

 

[Valdetiosi]

snip

UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix is redundant when creating Bashed Patch.

Also what OOO did you install for having such crap ton of plugins? This is the latest edition there is of OOO.

 

[Arthandas]

I remember my first time with Oblivion. I played for a few hours then decided to mod the hell out of it.
And so I did.
I modded it out of my hard drive.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

TBH I really don't think you need anything beyond bug fixes + something to fix the awful leveling system if it's your first time playing.

 

[Funposter]

TBH I really don't think you need anything beyond bug fixes + something to fix the awful leveling system if it's your first time playing.

My advice for first time players is still 100% vanilla so that they can experience the same pain that I felt in 2006.