New Vegas review from NMA, too good to be true???

[hoverdog]

i am cautiously optimistic.




...





oh fuck this, i'm stoked.

 

[relootz]

So what is this shit? The game is actually not crap and a big improvement over FO3?

 

[Overweight Manatee]

I'm 50/50 on this being a Bethesda/Obsidian scheme to see if they can usurp control of the hive mind or this guy not knowing how to use sarcasm well.


The idea of dressing up or otherwise trying to pass as part of another faction in order to get quests from them is a pretty awesome concept though.

 

[made]

"If we exclude the first person perspective, and bethesda engine, and real time..."

I just played the review copy for an hour.

Char generation is a mess. I spent the better half of that hour trying to find a non-repulsive face before I gave up. Increasing "age" turns your face fatter and yellow-er. Right on. Next I had to click through 8 screens to assign my stats. Then answer a bunch of questions that may or may not have had an effect on how my skills turned out, I'm not sure.

Relieved that it was finally over, I went outside. Found a shop, chatted with owner, had a look at his stuff - WTF is this? 100 items crammed into one long ass list in a tiny window that shows only 5 at a time - no icons, no tabs, just text. Like a fucking console rpg from the 80s. I didn't buy anything. Same crap in the pipboy: there's no paperdoll, no drag&drop interface, no icons. It's all menus and text. Tiny menus and huge text. You have to scroll to see all your skills. Three decades of UI evolution never happened.

I tried to explore the town a bit more but even running around feels retarded. The char zips around like on skates. 3rd person reveals he's actually walking on clouds - the animation is totally disjointed from the camera movement. No sense of weight or mass. Think Bloodlines but ten times more jarring. The game doesn't look bad on screenshots but when you actually see it in motion it feels terribly outdated. Whatever, thankfully pipboy can teleport you straight to your quest objective.

So I found the girl I was supposed to talk to for my tutorial. I killed her dog before her eyes (after pumping 2 magazines into its head at point blank and staring in disbelief at the idiocy that is VATS). She didn't care, but apparently I lost reputation with the town. I quit.

Note that I didn't play FO3, so all this came as a shock to me. I knew it was bad, but for this I wasn't prepared. At least now I know everyone who claimed that pos was fun and "good for what it is" for the retards they are. I don't blame OE for any of this. I can't see how anyone could have turned the engine and UI into something halfway acceptable without rewriting it from the ground up.

The sad part is, there might be actually a decent game hidden underneath that pile of crap. Writing seemed decent from the little I saw of it, voice acting was spot on, and supposedly quests and world design are awesome. But I couldn't sit through even Arcanum or PST in this engine. It's unplayable.

 

[Ruprekt]

"If we exclude the first person perspective, and bethesda engine, and real time..."

What you described was the "bethesda engine". The rest of us know what we're getting with that so your review is kinda beside the point. Yes oblivion/oblivion with guns have a stupid third person side step + forward motion animation, thankfully they aren't meant to be played in third person.

And about the dog thing, what did you exepct? It'd be equally unrealistic if the girl went ape shit on you + the rest of the town.

I agree with you on the interface. I'd forgotten how bad it is in fallout 3 and oblivion unmodded. Blame consoles, the mass effect inventory is even worse.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

And about the dog thing, what did you exepct? It'd be equally unrealistic if the girl went ape shit on you + the rest of the town.

Bullshit, once my dog got attacked by a guy with a shotgun, and the entire neighbourhood engaged him in a battle to the death.

Shame about some of the other stuff, though.

 

[Secretninja]

I just started playing it and I am fairly confident prosper got some work animating the dogs.

 

[Drakron]

And about the dog thing, what did you exepct? It'd be equally unrealistic if the girl went ape shit on you + the rest of the town.

Bullshit, once my dog got attacked by a guy with a shotgun, and the entire neighbourhood engaged him in a battle to the death.

I think the argument was "dammed if you do, dammed in you dont" were in case the town gone to actively hostile he would complain about it instead.

I am not stupid to realize a lot of people here have long decided that this game would be crap and now are coming out of the woodwork to point out and say "this is shit".

I also not stupid to also release that if Van Buren come out as Fallout 3 they would complain about it, Sawyer did not make that "I am not making a game for you" statement without a reason.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

FPS "Fallout"? What's next? FPS XCOM? Or maybe Turn-Based Syndicate?

Anyway, I find FP RPGs much less enjoyable than RPGs with isometric view.

 

[hiver]

No, he is complaining that the owner of the dog standing right there didnt react at all.

 

[Drakron]

No, he is complaining that the owner of the dog standing right there didnt react at all.

Well you are always fucked if the player decides to act as a asshole, the purpose of that segment is a tutorial and so getting the character giving the tutorial going hostile (by deliberate or accidental actions from the player) is a problem.

Bethsoft just made it impossible to do it by making NPCs "essential" and what happened?

BAWWWW!!! I CANNOT KILL EVERYONE! GAME SUCKS!

OE simply made it so you can complete the tutorial, besides anyone REALLY wants "accidental fire turns everyone hostile?" applied to EVERYTHING in the game? Do I need to remind what happened when you accidentally hit a Outcast in Operation Anchorage? MOST of my reloads were in that god damn section because some dumbass Outcast decided to jump in front of me and I accidentally hit him turning THE ENTIRE FUCKING GROUP HOSTILE!

Sure, they can do that ... and them we have people complain about how everyone turned hostile by accident.

Again, its a game ... if you want to act like a complete asshole them its not going to prevent you until you done enough stupidity to fuck you over but New Vegas even allows that, one of the endings seems to be "Anarchy" (everyone is dead).

I accept what is a limit of technology, the game will only understand "player.hit.dog" and "player.killed.dog" but cannot understand the exact circumstances, it have no idea if the player hit the dog deliberate or due to accident.

After all, did all the Lawyers became hostile to Dick Cheney because he shoot one of them? or do the British Armed Forces start to fire upon the U.S. Air Force because they were once again victims of friendly fire?

Game cannot understand that.

 

[hiver]

As i understand that segment is in the game. There wouldnt be any problem if they just made the owner go hostile and fill your ass with led. C&C right at the start.

Its not accidental fire since you have to shoot the dog a lot for it to actually die.

 

[Ruprekt]

The only game I can think of that handles this well is Risen. Not because of any amazing C&C, just the more believable behaviour of bystanders.

I wasn't saying this was amazing design. Just that it's something that practically no CRPG handles well.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Again, its a game ... if you want to act like a complete asshole them its not going to prevent you until you done enough stupidity to fuck you over but New Vegas even allows that, one of the endings seems to be "Anarchy" (everyone is dead).

well, that reviewer got kicked out from the casino for shooting a guy (and would probably be shot at if he tried to get back, but I'm not sure), so I guess it's a question of the NPC being able to kick your ass or not. Is the dog owner a random unarmed townsperson or a mercenary?

 

[Mangoose]

Probably a 10 year old girl.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

While NPCs having proper, individual reactions to the death of every other known NPC and what ever pets they have and taking into consideration of exactly what they died to would be pretty awesome, be reasonable. Its a god damned dog.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

^Well, a simple, default "Fuck off, asshole" would be enough. Apparently she didn't even acknowledge it, made wasn't very clear.

Probably a 10 year old girl.

No, if that was the case she would punch him to death while happily shrugging off point blank head shots.

 

[hiver]

She teaches you how to shoot at the beginning and takes you on a first mission to kill some geckos together with the dog.

She is armed and standing right next to a dog.
She may not react on you shooting the dog because it may be a coincidence, though if it was me she would put a hole in your head immediately, or after Dog would critically bite your groin off - (it doesnt do anything at all, just stand there taking headshots) but she should react if you kill it - which takes a lot of shots since it appears that the dog has a humongous amount of HP.


You can see it here :

http://www.justin.tv/jerleminara/b/271951801

its close to the beginning, after you leave the good doctor.

just move it to 16.10

While NPCs having proper, individual reactions to the death of every other known NPC and what ever pets they have and taking into consideration of exactly what they died to would be pretty awesome, be reasonable. Its a god damned dog.

Dont be dense. Nobody is asking for reaction to - all other existing fucking NPCs - mkay?

 

[Overweight Manatee]

^Well, a simple, default "Fuck off, asshole" would be enough. Apparently she didn't even acknowledge it, made wasn't very clear.

But if you do it for one person then you have to script those reactions and record extra dialog for EVERY NPC and EVERY death each NPC could see.

Have codex complaints really ed to the point of whining that they have found an obscure situation in which they are able to do something that some omniscient developer didn't think of and specifically account for?

 

[hiver]

No you dont.
The game already has NPC reacting if you kill someone of their group, faction, ally and turning hostile on you.
In this case it just could have been allowed to happen.

 

[Mangoose]

So is it just a case of an oversight of one NPC not having its proper scripts, or does the lack of reaction occur game-wide?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

But if you do it for one person then you have to script those reactions and record extra dialog for EVERY NPC and EVERY death each NPC could see.

I think in FO3 you sorta have default answers that are the equivalent of floating text - "I'm listening", "I don't have time fore you right now", "We don't like your kind around here", that kind of thing. You can even turn subtitles for them on options.

What I want to know if if the woman even knows you shoot her dog, not asking for a custom wall of text.

Have codex complaints really ed to the point of whining that they have found an obscure situation in which they are able to do something that some omniscient developer didn't think of and specifically account for?

Killing someone in a town, even a dog, is not an obscure situation that requires omniscience from the developer. That would be "baw, I pushed a pile of boxes to go over an invisible wall instead of searching for a key and now the game won't let me progress, why don't they reward my ceativity?".

 

[madbringer]

Kinda doubt this; can anyone attest to NV's grimdarkness?

Then again, I never thought Fallout 1 was all that dark to begin with.

Huh. May i ask, what games you do feel are "dark"? F1 is certainly amongst the most depressing (in terms of atmosphere) games ever made, alongside stuff like Postal and I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream.

 

[hiver]

Its not an obscure situation, its one that every player will go through and its more than reasonable to expect a lot of them will try and shoot the dog.
A quick critical to the groin and a headshot would be a pretty good lesson on what to expect in the game and do wanders to set the tone.

This only reinforces the "bethesda" style.

 

[hiver]

What I want to know if if the woman even knows you shoot her dog, not asking for a custom wall of text.

Watch the bloody video you retard.

Its not a "pet" either. Its her full companion that goes into combat with her.