New Vegas review from NMA, too good to be true???

[Clockwork Knight]

It doesn't let me jump to 16:10, good sir.

 

[Drakron]

Well it could be done ... sort off, just play around with the scripts and fractions.

Problem is that doing so would heavy penalize the player from accidentally kill the dog and if we want to bring "consequences" you would end up having to wipe out Goodsrings because of it.

The fact OE decided to not make any penalty seems to be that they do not want to risk the game penalize the player from something he had no control of at that point.

 

[Topher]

Well it could be done ... sort off, just play around with the scripts and fractions.

Problem is that doing so would heavy penalize the player from accidentally kill the dog and if we want to bring "consequences" you would end up having to wipe out Goodsrings because of it.

The fact OE decided to not make any penalty seems to be that they do not want to risk the game penalize the player from something he had no control of at that point.

If it's some sort of quest and you end up choosing to kill the dog what's so hard about making here attack you. If they can't manage to script a single NPC going hostile then I just honestly don't know what to say. I'm going to have to watch the video I guess.

 

[Stabwound]

"If we exclude the first person perspective, and bethesda engine, and real time..."

I just played the review copy for an hour.

Char generation is a mess. I spent the better half of that hour trying to find a non-repulsive face before I gave up. Increasing "age" turns your face fatter and yellow-er. Right on. Next I had to click through 8 screens to assign my stats. Then answer a bunch of questions that may or may not have had an effect on how my skills turned out, I'm not sure.

Relieved that it was finally over, I went outside. Found a shop, chatted with owner, had a look at his stuff - WTF is this? 100 items crammed into one long ass list in a tiny window that shows only 5 at a time - no icons, no tabs, just text. Like a fucking console rpg from the 80s. I didn't buy anything. Same crap in the pipboy: there's no paperdoll, no drag&drop interface, no icons. It's all menus and text. Tiny menus and huge text. You have to scroll to see all your skills. Three decades of UI evolution never happened.

I tried to explore the town a bit more but even running around feels retarded. The char zips around like on skates. 3rd person reveals he's actually walking on clouds - the animation is totally disjointed from the camera movement. No sense of weight or mass. Think Bloodlines but ten times more jarring. The game doesn't look bad on screenshots but when you actually see it in motion it feels terribly outdated. Whatever, thankfully pipboy can teleport you straight to your quest objective.

So I found the girl I was supposed to talk to for my tutorial. I killed her dog before her eyes (after pumping 2 magazines into its head at point blank and staring in disbelief at the idiocy that is VATS). She didn't care, but apparently I lost reputation with the town. I quit.

Note that I didn't play FO3, so all this came as a shock to me. I knew it was bad, but for this I wasn't prepared. At least now I know everyone who claimed that pos was fun and "good for what it is" for the retards they are. I don't blame OE for any of this. I can't see how anyone could have turned the engine and UI into something halfway acceptable without rewriting it from the ground up.

The sad part is, there might be actually a decent game hidden underneath that pile of crap. Writing seemed decent from the little I saw of it, voice acting was spot on, and supposedly quests and world design are awesome. But I couldn't sit through even Arcanum or PST in this engine. It's unplayable.

I mostly agree. I didn't play Fallout 3, either, so I can't really compare, but yeah the interface is surprisingly terrible. I was pretty surprised that everything is a text-based blob; even Oblivion was better than this. If this is a result of the console retardation, then this is probably the worst thing to come of it.

The char generation made no sense to me, either. I couldn't tell if it was actually doing anything to my stats, considering afterward the guy lets you change the skills yourself. And yeah the faces all look deformed.

I don't really care about the way the character walks or the fact that shooting the dog in the head doesn't anger the girl, though. Who cares?

The game itself seems fun. The UI is shitty shit shit, though.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Have codex complaints really ed to the point of whining that they have found an obscure situation in which they are able to do something that some omniscient developer didn't think of and specifically account for?

Killing someone in a town, even a dog, is not an obscure situation that requires omniscience from the developer. That would be "baw, I pushed a pile of boxes to go over an invisible wall instead of searching for a key and now the game won't let me progress, why don't they reward my ceativity?".

Since she is apparently a tutorial NPC, what reason would you have to kill her dog? Did you really want to kill the dog, or did you want to test whether Obsidian programmed a reaction to the death of every NPC in the game (supplemented by reloading a save game every time)?

 

[madbringer]

Clearly that's exactly what makes or breaks a good crpg.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Well, made was clearly trying to fuck the game over to find a problem with it (or he was just trying to test reactions in general, but this is the codex). I'm just hoping this sort of behavior belongs to the tutorial only.

(supplemented by reloading a save game every time)?

Again, that's only needed if the reaction ends with everyone going hostile on you, which I already said is retarded and wouldn't be needed with a default "fuck off" from one of the 10 or so VAs. No need for "fuck off, you killed my dog with a shotgun yesterday".

I'm not even sure why we're arguing about this, we seem to agree about how expecting reactions to every minor shit is aspie fantasy. Guess I'll just see it myself when the "buying" (uh huhu uhhuhu) process "ends" (uhuhhhuhhuuuuuhuhu).

 

[hiver]

Have codex complaints really ed to the point of whining that they have found an obscure situation in which they are able to do something that some omniscient developer didn't think of and specifically account for?

Killing someone in a town, even a dog, is not an obscure situation that requires omniscience from the developer. That would be "baw, I pushed a pile of boxes to go over an invisible wall instead of searching for a key and now the game won't let me progress, why don't they reward my ceativity?".

Since she is apparently a tutorial NPC, what reason would you have to kill her dog? Did you really want to kill the dog, or did you want to test whether Obsidian programmed a reaction to the death of every NPC in the game (supplemented by reloading a save game every time)?

Its not a bloody accident! You have to bloody stand there and bloody shoot it repeatedly many times for it to die!

In the video stream i posted the link to the player shoots it several times in the head and it didnt do anything.

Its the same fucking thing as if i went over to Ceaser, or any other important NPC, shot his right hand man in front of him repeatedly until he died and got no reaction for it at all.

It doesn't let me jump to 16:10, good sir.

Just wait a minute or two when its starts loading then you can jump and it will continue to load from that point.

 

[Mangoose]

Okay guys stop being gay and see if this is a game-wide issue or if it's just whichever retard scripted the tutorial made a blatant oversight.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

I dont care if FO's combat is TB or a first person shooter as long as its good. FO 1&2 had mediocre combat and FO 3's was even worse. NV's combat seems to be at least mediocre so me interest are peaked. I do wonder if me PC can play it sense the 360 version has the freezes.

 

[Lockkaliber]

Didn't Sawyer say that the freezes could be removed by clearing your cache on the 360? Or was that another bug?

 

[Vault Dweller]

"If we exclude the first person perspective, and bethesda engine, and real time..."

I just played the review copy for an hour.

Char generation is a mess. I spent the better half of that hour trying to find a non-repulsive face before I gave up. Increasing "age" turns your face fatter and yellow-er. Right on. Next I had to click through 8 screens to assign my stats. Then answer a bunch of questions that may or may not have had an effect on how my skills turned out, I'm not sure.

Relieved that it was finally over, I went outside. Found a shop, chatted with owner, had a look at his stuff - WTF is this? 100 items crammed into one long ass list in a tiny window that shows only 5 at a time - no icons, no tabs, just text. Like a fucking console rpg from the 80s. I didn't buy anything. Same crap in the pipboy: there's no paperdoll, no drag&drop interface, no icons. It's all menus and text. Tiny menus and huge text. You have to scroll to see all your skills. Three decades of UI evolution never happened.

I tried to explore the town a bit more but even running around feels retarded. The char zips around like on skates. 3rd person reveals he's actually walking on clouds - the animation is totally disjointed from the camera movement. No sense of weight or mass. Think Bloodlines but ten times more jarring. The game doesn't look bad on screenshots but when you actually see it in motion it feels terribly outdated. Whatever, thankfully pipboy can teleport you straight to your quest objective.

So I found the girl I was supposed to talk to for my tutorial. I killed her dog before her eyes (after pumping 2 magazines into its head at point blank and staring in disbelief at the idiocy that is VATS). She didn't care, but apparently I lost reputation with the town. I quit.

Note that I didn't play FO3, so all this came as a shock to me. I knew it was bad, but for this I wasn't prepared. At least now I know everyone who claimed that pos was fun and "good for what it is" for the retards they are. I don't blame OE for any of this. I can't see how anyone could have turned the engine and UI into something halfway acceptable without rewriting it from the ground up.

The sad part is, there might be actually a decent game hidden underneath that pile of crap. Writing seemed decent from the little I saw of it, voice acting was spot on, and supposedly quests and world design are awesome. But I couldn't sit through even Arcanum or PST in this engine. It's unplayable.

Graphics, animations, and your character's face are very important in RPGs, especially those where you see your character's face only when you rotate your character. Got it.

 

[Drakron]

Its not a bloody accident! You have to bloody stand there and bloody shoot it repeatedly many times for it to die!

You fight Geckos with the dog and her, you CAN accidentally shoot the dog when fighting them and they can even DIE during those fights.

Its not as if under any circumstances he cannot be harmed by anyone (or anything) but the player as nothing is hostile to it.

Its not Fallout 1-2 were maps were made in such a way NPCs could only be harmed by the player or by scripted events, what you are asking is for the game to understand "I shoot the dog on purpose" and "I shoot the dog on accident" and IT CANNOT DO THAT, it can only understand "dog is shoot by player".

If the dog was made essential what would happen? Would we not have this exact same conversation with the only difference NPCs were set as essential during the tutorial?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

You fight Geckos with the dog and her, you CAN accidentally shoot the dog when fighting them and they can even DIE during those fights.

Yeah, I'm thinking they made it so she won't care about the dog dying because of this. Maybe it's not on her faction?

 

[hiver]

Okay guys stop being gay and see if this is a game-wide issue or if it's just whichever retard scripted the tutorial made a blatant oversight.

Its just the issue with this one scene i believe.
Its a minor thing certainly and still in the "tutorial" part of the game but its still shitty.
Just sayin.

 

[hiver]

Its not a bloody accident! You have to bloody stand there and bloody shoot it repeatedly many times for it to die!

You fight Geckos with the dog and her, you CAN accidentally shoot the dog when fighting them and they can even DIE during those fights.

Its not as if under any circumstances he cannot be harmed by anyone (or anything) but the player as nothing is hostile to it.

Its not Fallout 1-2 were maps were made in such a way NPCs could only be harmed by the player or by scripted events, what you are asking is for the game to understand "I shoot the dog on purpose" and "I shoot the dog on accident" and IT CANNOT DO THAT, it can only understand "dog is shoot by player".

You bloody blathering idiot!!

Its not about shooting the dog!! Its about killing it!! WHich takes a lot of intentional firing at it you moron!!!

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Its not a bloody accident! You have to bloody stand there and bloody shoot it repeatedly many times for it to die!

You fight Geckos with the dog and her, you CAN accidentally shoot the dog when fighting them and they can even DIE during those fights.

Its not as if under any circumstances he cannot be harmed by anyone (or anything) but the player as nothing is hostile to it.

Its not Fallout 1-2 were maps were made in such a way NPCs could only be harmed by the player or by scripted events, what you are asking is for the game to understand "I shoot the dog on purpose" and "I shoot the dog on accident" and IT CANNOT DO THAT, it can only understand "dog is shoot by player".

You bloody blathering idiot!!

Its not about shooting the dog!! Its about killing it!! WHich takes a lot of intentional firing at it you moron!!!

Dog is at 10% health because SOMETHING ELSE IS ATTACKING IT. Player hits dog with 1 stray bullet as its moving around right infront of the target. Dog dies. Now what?

 

[FruitOfFallout]

Its not a bloody accident! You have to bloody stand there and bloody shoot it repeatedly many times for it to die!

You fight Geckos with the dog and her, you CAN accidentally shoot the dog when fighting them and they can even DIE during those fights.

Its not as if under any circumstances he cannot be harmed by anyone (or anything) but the player as nothing is hostile to it.

Its not Fallout 1-2 were maps were made in such a way NPCs could only be harmed by the player or by scripted events, what you are asking is for the game to understand "I shoot the dog on purpose" and "I shoot the dog on accident" and IT CANNOT DO THAT, it can only understand "dog is shoot by player".

You bloody blathering idiot!!

Its not about shooting the dog!! Its about killing it!! WHich takes a lot of intentional firing at it you moron!!!

Aren't morons protected under the endangered species act?

 

[Ruprekt]

If I shoot the dog, carve some meat out of it, take off my pants and eat it.

She should responed to those exact circumstances.

 

[MikeJahn]

Way to make a big issue out of a small problem, I am proud of you Codex.

On the other hand I am a bit excited to play this tomorrow.

 

[hiver]

Thats just a wee little bit different then shooting at it repeatedly and killing it while neither he or his mistress are in combat or on some sort of a mission.

- Just in case you misunderstood this as some sort of general rant against New Vegas as a whole or Obsidian as developers - its not.

Im just saying that his mistress not reacting at all if you kill it right in front of her is bloody stupid and a mistake, especially if we take in account that you loose reputation with the city at the same time.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Dog is at 10% health because SOMETHING ELSE IS ATTACKING IT. Player hits dog with 1 stray bullet as its moving around right infront of the target. Dog dies. Now what?

Hm, but hiver says it takes a lot of damage to kill the dog at full health. What about a 1-2 hit tolerance? Even the Blades from Oblivion's tutorial (with the clusterfuck fights against assassins in tight spaces) would take a few hits from you (telling you to stop, that you'll regret it, etc) before deciding you are intentionally going for them and turning on you.

 

[Drakron]

Yeah, I'm thinking they made it so she won't care about the dog dying because of this. Maybe it's not on her faction?

Likely the dog is set on the global faction as he will go hostile if you decide to help the Powder Gang to wipe the city (at least the wiki says so).

Attacking it not making anyone going hostile is likely set to not accidentally fuck up the entire game from the start, I suppose Sunny is set in a similar way to prevent accidental screw up.

Oh and hiver, in can you MISSED IT, you CAN accidentally kill the dog because he is attacking Geckos and lost enough HP so your stray bullet brings the HP to the negatives and them you just bagged a kill as far the game is capable of understanding.

 

[themadhatter]

Graphics, animations, and your character's face are very important in RPGs, especially those where you see your character's face only when you rotate your character. Got it.

Sarcastic remark intended to derail any consideration that the quality of art within a videogame is somehow consistent with its value, thereby potentially avoiding some future critique of your own game and its decidedly less-than-professional aspects.

...yeah, I see what you did there.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

No, he is complaining that the owner of the dog standing right there didnt react at all.

Well you are always fucked if the player decides to act as a asshole, the purpose of that segment is a tutorial and so getting the character giving the tutorial going hostile (by deliberate or accidental actions from the player) is a problem.

Bethsoft just made it impossible to do it by making NPCs "essential" and what happened?

BAWWWW!!! I CANNOT KILL EVERYONE! GAME SUCKS!

OE simply made it so you can complete the tutorial, besides anyone REALLY wants "accidental fire turns everyone hostile?" applied to EVERYTHING in the game? Do I need to remind what happened when you accidentally hit a Outcast in Operation Anchorage? MOST of my reloads were in that god damn section because some dumbass Outcast decided to jump in front of me and I accidentally hit him turning THE ENTIRE FUCKING GROUP HOSTILE!

Sure, they can do that ... and them we have people complain about how everyone turned hostile by accident.

Again, its a game ... if you want to act like a complete asshole them its not going to prevent you until you done enough stupidity to fuck you over but New Vegas even allows that, one of the endings seems to be "Anarchy" (everyone is dead).

I accept what is a limit of technology, the game will only understand "player.hit.dog" and "player.killed.dog" but cannot understand the exact circumstances, it have no idea if the player hit the dog deliberate or due to accident.

After all, did all the Lawyers became hostile to Dick Cheney because he shoot one of them? or do the British Armed Forces start to fire upon the U.S. Air Force because they were once again victims of friendly fire?

Game cannot understand that.

Drakron, is that you? I cannot make you out through all that Obsidian cum on your face.

I doubt it could be you though. The real Drakron would know that this 'game cannot understand' stuff is the biggest pile of horse shit that has been written. He would also know that his analogies were completely retarded too.

Whoever you are, re-read what you have written. And before blowing up, be honest with yourself: You know that is a load of rubbish, you know games have had better faction systems than this tripe, and you know you are being a hyper fanboy at the moment.

Now, run off and attack Dogmeat in the original Fallout. Even pull a weapon near him and watch the remarks of the people around you. Then think. Then respond if you have to.