Mass Effect New Mass Effect confirmed

[HappyDaddyWow!]

Most of Mass Effect's companions are bland. Jack, Samara and maybe Mordin are the only ones who jump out to me as having some sort of personality that isn't either extremely overdone elsewhere or just bland. For a series with so much dialogue and character moments, we barely know anything about our squad mates.

I have to disagree with this, the character writing is what carries the series past ME1. ME2 is a pretty straight forward heist setup with sci-fi window dressing, not a bad story just very simplistic, and ME3 is a total trashfire of a story. The one saving grace from a writing perspective is most (not all, at least half of the human party members are godawful boring) of the squad members are interesting and likable in their own ways.

With that being said keep in mind I'm speaking relative to video game writing, which I don't hold to a very high regard and significantly lower my standards for.

 

[Lacrymas]

The one saving grace from a writing perspective is most (not all, at least half of the human party members are godawful boring) of the squad members are interesting and likable in their own ways.

Tell me anything about the squadmates I didn't mention which doesn't have to do with either their race as a whole or their quest.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Liara was the writer's pet in all 3 games and she was removed from the team in ME2 so she can't be killed in the Suicide mission. Many BioWare fans complained about a preferential treatment she got. Leliana can be killed in DA:O and had a miniscule role in DA2, she's hardly a writer's pet.

Yes, because letting you kill a character then resurrecting her for a sequel is much better than what they did with Liara...

 

[Elttharion]

She got the Leliana treatment.

Fine character in the first game, mary sue developer pet with massively contrived importance in the sequels.

Liara was the writer's pet in all 3 games and she was removed from the team in ME2 so she can't be killed in the Suicide mission. Many BioWare fans complained about a preferential treatment she got. Leliana can be killed in DA:O and had a miniscule role in DA2, she's hardly a writer's pet.

Most of Mass Effect's companions are bland. Jack, Samara and maybe Mordin are the only ones who jump out to me as having some sort of personality that isn't either extremely overdone elsewhere or just bland. For a series with so much dialogue and character moments, we barely know anything about our squad mates.

Garrus is an ultimate bro and Wrex is great, Mordin has a compelling arc in ME2-3.

The fact that you can kill Leliana and she comes back anyways kinda proves his point.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

The one saving grace from a writing perspective is most (not all, at least half of the human party members are godawful boring) of the squad members are interesting and likable in their own ways.

Tell me anything about the squadmates I didn't mention which doesn't have to do with either their race as a whole or their quest.

You can mention pretty much any squadmate from ME2 or 3 and I could list out several characteristics that make them unique, likeable, and interesting. There are of course exceptions to this like the black guy in ME2. Excluding traits related to their alien species is silly imo, that's like saying Spock is a bad character because being Vulcan is his most defining characteristic.

Again, think relative to video game writing and especially popular RPG games, and you'll start to realize the first two Mass Effect games are probably in the top 5 or so when it comes to party members and how they're written.

 

[Lacrymas]

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Mass Effect 1 and 2 treat their characters very differently but neither are close to "top" companion writing ever.

ME1 doesn't care about personal shit. It's very consistent, where you need a companion for something, which leads you to another, and another. All are connected to the plot in a major way and you couldn't have done it without (most of) them. You'll get bits and pieces of their personality still, but it's weighed down by Liara and Tali being lore dumps for their species. Wrex and Garrus are great though, same with Ashley. Kaiden, Liara and Tali all have their moments either way though, especially considering this isn't some personal adventure.

ME2 is a Mashup of people completely disconnected from everything going on (expect Mordin) and 80% of the game revolves around them. This is the easiest writing, they're not shackled by a plot and were free to write any shit they wanted to so that's how you get Jack, Kasumi, Thane, etc. Despite barely having restraints, they rehashed daddy issues for multiple characters, had barely any interaction between anyone, wrote some characters completely out of place in the ME setting, the list goes on. It was a failure in both plot and character writing.

 

[Lacrymas]

Bioware are at their best with the companion writing when companions interact with each other, rather than with the PC with whom they are extremely milquetoast in their responses. However, there's barely any of that in the ME franchise. I think DA2 has the best companion writing out of all of Bioware's catalogue and that's because they often clash with each other and they bring out each other's personalities and differences to the forefront.

 

[Camel]

Yes, because letting you kill a character then resurrecting her for a sequel is much better than what they did with Liara...

The fact that you can kill Leliana and she comes back anyways kinda proves his point.

A possibility of Leliana's death during the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest shows that she wasn't that important when developing the first game. She has a miniscule role during a side quest in DA2. So I fail to see how she's a writer's pet like Liara.

It’s like how, when I say that Leliana is the most common romance in DAO—by a significant margin—fans are sometimes surprised. She doesn’t get the most discussion, after all, and that discussion isn’t the loudest (unless one counts the whining of the “but I cut off her head!” bunch)

All this is really just to say that “most fan requested” doesn’t really amount to much, in terms of the larger picture. Oh, that doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate the fact a particular character has fans… it’s nice to see people get excited, and that excitement can be infectious, but that’s never going to translate into us doing big things solely to make that group happy. There has to first be a reason to have that character present, and them having fans is a nice added bonus…but personally I’d be just as happy if the character had no fans, or was even considered unpopular. It’s a chance to develop the character further.

That reason need to be there, after all, and needs to be the driving motivator for what we’re doing. Otherwise we’ll bring a popular character back only to ruin them.

https://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/post/109290880723/on-character-popularity
Gaider wrote this and then proceeded to bring Leliana back in DA:I and promptly ruined her.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

You could argue the companion writing in BG1 was so bad it basically didn't exist (granted I never played the newer version that added in a bunch of new characters and can't comment on whether or not they're any good)

 

[9ted6]

The fact that you can kill Leliana and she comes back anyways kinda proves his point.

A possibility of Leliana's death during the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest shows that she wasn't that important when developing the first game. She has a miniscule role during a side quest in DA2. So I fail to see how she's a writer's pet like Liara.

She's arguably the most important character in Inquisition and is the favorite of the new lead writer.

I think he specifically mentioned liking to use her to show how dumb he thinks religion is and if that's true then she's not just a pet but a literal mouthpiece.

 

[Lacrymas]

Tbh, a religious rogue with varied sexual proclivities is an interesting character and could've been very thought-provoking and even profound, but her writer/s don't have any experience with any part of that so it falls flat.

 

[rubinstein]

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

oh so im not the only who appreciated the trolls? the trolls were surprisingly well written for nu-spellforce standards. for modern gaming standards even. i binged through sf3 around 2 years ago, and the only thing i remember is the troll squad.

 

[Lacrymas]

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

oh so im not the only who appreciated the trolls? the trolls were surprisingly well written for nu-spellforce standards. for modern gaming standards even. i binged through sf3 around 2 years ago, and the only thing i remember is the troll squad.

The trolls were awesome, but most of the companions in the whole SF3 "trilogy" are surprisingly well written. Soul Harvest and Fallen God are well written in general and have very strong stories. SH is the more profound of the two, but Fallen God is very character-driven and even emotional.

 

[Elttharion]

The fact that you can kill Leliana and she comes back anyways kinda proves his point.

A possibility of Leliana's death during the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest shows that she wasn't that important when developing the first game. She has a miniscule role during a side quest in DA2. So I fail to see how she's a writer's pet like Liara.

She's arguably the most important character in Inquisition and is the favorite of the new lead writer.

I think he specifically mentioned liking to use her to show how dumb he thinks religion is and if that's true then she's not just a pet but a literal mouthpiece.

In Inquisition she can be a ressurected prophet + divine + spymaster + mary sue super assassin. She is also super popular among the dikes in the bioware fanbase/staff + writers. She might not have been a literal pet in the first game but she is definitely one in the third.

 

[ChildInTime]

oh so im not the only who appreciated the trolls? the trolls were surprisingly well written for nu-spellforce standards. for modern gaming standards even. i binged through sf3 around 2 years ago, and the only thing i remember is the troll squad.

New Spellforce games have better writing than most of the games released in the last 10 or so years, lol. Though I personally didn't enjoy the troll expansion, Soul Harvest was great though.

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

Nah, not putting Mass Effect in there is criminal, plot is shit but the characters make the journey memorable. Also - say whatever you want, but companions in all DA games were pretty well written, even those that were disliked like Sera or Vivien, Dorian is the only time I actually thought the character being gay was done alright instead of some shitty pandering. Bioware still had some of their mojo even back in 2014.

 

[9ted6]

All this is really just to say that “most fan requested” doesn’t really amount to much, in terms of the larger picture. Oh, that doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate the fact a particular character has fans… it’s nice to see people get excited, and that excitement can be infectious, but that’s never going to translate into us doing big things solely to make that group happy. There has to first be a reason to have that character present, and them having fans is a nice added bonus…but personally I’d be just as happy if the character had no fans, or was even considered unpopular. It’s a chance to develop the character further.

That reason need to be there, after all, and needs to be the driving motivator for what we’re doing. Otherwise we’ll bring a popular character back only to ruin them.

https://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/post/109290880723/on-character-popularity
Gaider wrote this and then proceeded to bring Leliana back in DA:I and promptly ruined her.

This is prophetic for Inquisition and the post Origins franchise as a whole. They kept bringing back characters and ruining them.

Leliana goes from repentant chantry nun who believes in the maker despite people discouraging her to assassin shadow broker who thinks believing in the maker is retarded even if you kept her on the repentant path or killed her in Origins.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

TBH they brought her back to DA2 as well, knowing full well that you can end up killing her in DAO.

 

[9ted6]

TBH they brought her back to DA2 as well, knowing full well that you can end up killing her in DAO.

It's decisions like that that convince me Origins was never meant to be a series and any claims that they planned the entire franchise before it was even out are just cope.

I wonder if Mass Effect was always supposed to be a trilogy.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

TBH they brought her back to DA2 as well, knowing full well that you can end up killing her in DAO.

It's decisions like that that convince me Origins was never meant to be a series and any claims that they planned the entire franchise before it was even out are just cope.

I wonder if Mass Effect was always supposed to be a trilogy.

Dragon Age was never meant to be a series, Origins was created eith thst in mind.

Mass Effect was planned to be a trilogy from the beggining.

The games themselves showcase this. Mass Effect 1 set up a ridiculous amount of plot points and things the future games could use (although they scrapped all of it) meanwhile DA:O let's you do whatever you want.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

DA2 was meant to be a DLC for DAO, so they probably accounted for it being played at a time where Leliana was still alive in your playthrough. The starting point of DA2 is actually somewhat early into DAO's play time.

 

[J1M]

That's nonsense. Dragon Age was made to free them from the restrictions of working with the D&D license. It was always intended to be a franchise.

 

[cruel]

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

I'm curious - what other games would you put in your top 10, supposedly with better companion writing than BG2 and Mass Effect?

The list looks pretty harsh tbh for Mass Effect, as someone else already said. The only companions I remember from NV are Cassidy and Boone, same for KotOR 2 (Kreia and HK-47). At the same time, I will remember Wrex, Mordin, Jack, Thane, Garrus for many years ahead for sure. No concerns with putting Planescape in top 5 though.

 

[Lacrymas]

Top 5 best companion writing in video games in no particular order - KotOR2, New Vegas, Mask of the Betrayer, Spellforce 3 and its expansions, PlanetEscape: Tournament. Bioware games aren't even in the top 10, including BG1/2.

I'm curious - what other games would you put in your top 10, supposedly with better companion writing than BG2 and Mass Effect?

I'd put Arcanum, Shadowrun Hong Kong and Dragonfall, Expeditions: Conquistador, Anachronox, Fallout 2 above any Bioware game. Then it really depends on what we mean by "companion" because I can think of several others before getting to *some* Bioware games and those aren't Mass Effect. People remember the ME companions because the games were "cinematic" and so the companions were up in your face constantly. ME is probably a strong contender for top 30, but not because the companions are good but because there aren't a lot of games that have companions and also aren't JRPGs. But I'd put some JRPGs above ME anyway.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

The fact that you can kill Leliana and she comes back anyways kinda proves his point.

A possibility of Leliana's death during the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest shows that she wasn't that important when developing the first game. She has a miniscule role during a side quest in DA2. So I fail to see how she's a writer's pet like Liara.

She's arguably the most important character in Inquisition and is the favorite of the new lead writer.

I think he specifically mentioned liking to use her to show how dumb he thinks religion is and if that's true then she's not just a pet but a literal mouthpiece.

In Inquisition she can be a ressurected prophet + divine + spymaster + mary sue super assassin. She is also super popular among the dikes in the bioware fanbase/staff + writers. She might not have been a literal pet in the first game but she is definitely one in the third.

All this is really just to say that “most fan requested” doesn’t really amount to much, in terms of the larger picture. Oh, that doesn’t mean we don’t appreciate the fact a particular character has fans… it’s nice to see people get excited, and that excitement can be infectious, but that’s never going to translate into us doing big things solely to make that group happy. There has to first be a reason to have that character present, and them having fans is a nice added bonus…but personally I’d be just as happy if the character had no fans, or was even considered unpopular. It’s a chance to develop the character further.

That reason need to be there, after all, and needs to be the driving motivator for what we’re doing. Otherwise we’ll bring a popular character back only to ruin them.

https://the-gaider-archives.tumblr.com/post/109290880723/on-character-popularity
Gaider wrote this and then proceeded to bring Leliana back in DA:I and promptly ruined her.

This is prophetic for Inquisition and the post Origins franchise as a whole. They kept bringing back characters and ruining them.

Leliana goes from repentant chantry nun who believes in the maker despite people discouraging her to assassin shadow broker who thinks believing in the maker is retarded even if you kept her on the repentant path or killed her in Origins.

If I had to guess a lot of this boils down to the fact that the developers/writers were payed to make another Dragon Age game, but didn't want to make a Dragon Age game. I played Dragon Age 2 on release and while I didn't necessarily hate it, it felt like a completely different IP and I quickly lost interest only a few hours in. Everything from the combat to the writing is totally different. Never played Inquisition because it looks like slop but I've heard basically the same thing about it.

Putting characters from the first game in the sequels is like their concession to the fans, "hey remember that game we made that you really liked? This game has nothing to do with that but look it's that character you liked!". It's pointless pandering to hide the fact that they have no idea what made the first game good, and frankly really don't care.