Decline MTG: Commander Format is Awful

[anvi]

I think their business model was always a problem. If they could have focused on making the game as fun and balanced as possible, and have a few popular modes, it could be an amazing game. But their income was always from releasing "boosters" with the shitty gambling aspect that might contain the thing you want or might not. And to drive that income they have to release new sets constantly. It's just a machine now and quality goes out the window, especially when each set has to attract existing players so the power of things inflates.

If only they could have made money some other way that doesn't destroy the game's integrity. This was a big problem in MMOs too.

 

[Dadd]

The game's basic system is amazing: it's a very satisfying mix of luck and skill. No other game gets it as right. But the new cards that get added to the game each year tend to have less-interesting iterations or combinations of old cards' effects, with uglier or medium-inappropriate art, awful Marvel/DC-inspired "flavor" and cynical political messaging. I don't like seeing these new cards alongside cards from the early sets that I enjoy. For me, the best way to play MTG is to play old-school formats, or make custom formats that include custom cards and exclude newer sets except for cards approved by people you play with.

WotC shouldn't get money; playing online (Cockatrice or XMage) or using "proxies" is the way to play. This bypasses the forced gambling aspect which adds nothing interesting to the game anymore.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Wombo combos in MTG have been popular since 20+ years ago. Tinker + artifact, Time Vault + Voltaic Key, Illusions of Grandeur + Donate, etc. The worst change to MTG card design recently is WotC trying to turn MTG into a quasi-board game by giving permanents excessively powerful effects while lowering their costs, and printing creature-supporting cards that are too powerful for their costs. Recent printings like Urza's Saga are idiotic and exacerbate the problem with combo decks, but I don't see why weebs are to blame for this continuation of an old card design approach.

20+ years ago is when Pokemon and Yugioh started to put pressure on MTG. You can see the influence in the mythic rare rarity being created. They needed to imply their cards were as rare as the stupid rarities other games were doing. Now it's so bad you get 1 of the TOP SUPER MEGA RARE per box in some games and per 6 boxes in other games.

The game's basic system is amazing: it's a very satisfying mix of luck and skill. No other game gets it as right. But the new cards that get added to the game each year tend to have less-interesting iterations or combinations of old cards' effects, with uglier or medium-inappropriate art, awful Marvel/DC-inspired "flavor" and cynical political messaging. I don't like seeing these new cards alongside cards from the early sets that I enjoy. For me, the best way to play MTG is to play old-school formats, or make custom formats that include custom cards and exclude newer sets except for cards approved by people you play with.

WotC shouldn't get money; playing online (Cockatrice or XMage) or using "proxies" is the way to play. This bypasses the forced gambling aspect which adds nothing interesting to the game anymore.

You never need to gamble, it's always cheaper to buy singles.

 

[Beans00]

MTG has been garbage since onslaught/mirroden, quit at 12-13 years old and never looked back.

It's funny because my age group was almost exclusively into yugioh. MTG turning into yugioh with the aforementioned 2 blocks made me quit and saved me a ton of money. Easy profit.

 

[anvi]

I only play it in Manalink. I tried MTGO and Arena but had issues with both.

 

[Gyor]

Commander, Historic Brawl, and Brawl are the best formats in MtG, they are the most impressive and far more varied and interesting then Standard.

And costs way fucking less then Modern, Pioneer, Legacy, or Vintage.

 

[gabel]

Everything MTG is awful nowadays.
A shame really, since it was really quite good some time up until modern or thereabouts.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Commander, Historic Brawl, and Brawl are the best formats in MtG, they are the most impressive and far more varied and interesting then Standard.

And costs way fucking less then Modern, Pioneer, Legacy, or Vintage.

I hate people saying MUH DECK DIVERSITY

I don't care if there's 5 decks that aren't fun to play against. I'd take a single deck format if that deck was enjoyable and had a lot of interaction. 5 shitty control decks or 5 hyper aggro decks isn't appealing.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

The worst change to MTG card design recently is WotC trying to turn MTG into a quasi-board game by giving permanents excessively powerful effects while lowering their costs, and printing creature-supporting cards that are too powerful for their costs.

Totally agreed. This is a major problem. Every creature has some complicated ability and is way underpriced.

I also add that in WotC's relentless pursuit of churn, they have created lots of shit mechanics. Players should haven't to read a paragraph every time they play a creature. It's an absolute mess. I have build a starter deck in each color to teach new players the fundamentals of the game and how each color is distinct. I basically have to avoid cards created in the past 10-12 years because of how convoluted and busted they get.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

The worst change to MTG card design recently is WotC trying to turn MTG into a quasi-board game by giving permanents excessively powerful effects while lowering their costs, and printing creature-supporting cards that are too powerful for their costs.

Totally agreed. This is a major problem. Every creature has some complicated ability and is way underpriced.

I also add that in WotC's relentless pursuit of churn, they have created lots of shit mechanics. Players should haven't to read a paragraph every time they play a creature. It's an absolute mess. I have build a starter deck in each color to teach new players the fundamentals of the game and how each color is distinct. I basically have to avoid cards created in the past 10-12 years because of how convoluted and busted they get.

Is it lack of foresight in design or is it marketing that does this to games? I played Digimon for a while and cards went from 1 minor effect to 3 effects plus a stack of inherits.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Halfling Rodeo I think it started as a desire to do something new, but quickly devolved into short-sighted profiteering. You need to make something different if you want people to keep buying. Furthermore, people will be less inclined to buy your new cards if they aren't good. They half-assed try to contain this with exclusive formats, like Standard and Modern--but that's just as much about keeping people on the treadmill as it is pushing past their errors.

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

Halfling Rodeo I think it started as a desire to do something new, but quickly devolved into short-sighted profiteering. You need to make something different if you want people to keep buying. Furthermore, people will be less inclined to buy your new cards if they aren't good. They half-assed try to contain this with exclusive formats, like Standard and Modern--but that's just as much about keeping people on the treadmill as it is pushing past their errors.

Maybe it's the circles I've been keeping but I quite like rotation the way Magic does it, or did when I played. A 2 year cycle lets them print powerful effects and have them fall out of the game. Magic really benefits from having a Standard cycle so power levels can rise and fall, mechanics can come and go and if they really fuck up a format you can draft until it rotates and be ready for the next standard. Eternal games seem to suffer from power creep in ways that change their identity. You end up with almost legacy levels of power in 3 years of a games life and then there's no where else to go but vintage.

 

[gatorized]

"winning is for losers" is some pretty advanced cope

 

[Halfling Rodeo]

"winning is for losers" is some pretty advanced cope

Enjoying the game and having a good experience is more important than winning.

 

[Maldoror]

IMO the only worthwhile way to play Magic is to buy a set of commons from whatever era you enjoyed most and then play casually with your friends, making new decks with the same large pool of cards every few matches. Maybe this has something in common with the "Pauper" format?
Magic is basically inaccessible to anyone who doesn't have the right type of autism to give a shit about optimal deck-building or card synergy. The fullest extent of my deckbuilding prowess inevitably boils down to "I want a vampire deck" or "I want a goblin deck" but never extends to "yeah so I use this card to stack this benefit so I can finally get this card out and-" blah blah blah.
As a result, Commander seems like the most retarded garbage on the planet. I remember trying to get back into Magic after a near decade long hiatus in 2019 and everyone at the LGS was playing Commander. Fucking retarded shit.

For me, Magic hit its peak when my friends and I had to barely assemble decks that we were making out of booster packs in highschool. Hasn't really been the same since then.

 

[spectre]

Looks like a limited format is what you want. Sealed or draft. You could buy repacks (which have been pilfered of all the chase rares, but it's fine cause they usually suck in limited), or repackage yourself, I am told it's pretty cheap.
Still, it'd be a lie to say luck doesn't play a role in such formats or that deckbuilding skills don't matter. But drafts are self-balancing to a degree, cause of the shared pool.

Other than this, maybe get a bunch of people who play preconstructed decks? Problem is, preconstructed decks are meant to be expanded on and a lot of people will want to.
It's difficult to take out the deckbuilding part out of a deckbuilding game.

 

[Maldoror]

It's difficult to take out the deckbuilding part out of the deckbuilding game.

Aye, it's true. Sadly I just find the actual played game of Magic to be very fun, and I always liked the art and flavour of a lot of the cards. Good point about the precon, but that's why I like to gather my friends and build decks out of the common sets of say the 2011-2012 era, so it's mildly balanced and we aren't bringing in cards from other eras.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I started playing with Lorwyn I think (2007), which is when the power curve and bloat seems to have started. It only got worse after that.

Playing pauper helps, but things are still so amped up. I started playing with a self-imposed $30(ish)/deck limit, and still stick with that today as best I can. There are just way too many abilities, even on common creatures. I'd settle if they just had simple keyword abilities, like Lifelink, Trample, Death touch, etc. Instead its all contrived paragraphs. Even many if the new keywords they've introduced are complicated.

I have been able to run a group where we play legacy once a month with about 4-6 players experienced players. It's nice, but whenever someone brings in cards from new sets I groan.

I have thought about trying to design my own game that would be similar, but comprehensive and not bloated. Something more akin to chess, but with spells on top of it. Just a static game that would never change.

 

[ind33d]

I started playing with Lorwyn I think (2007), which is when the power curve and bloat seems to have started. It only got worse after that.

Playing pauper helps, but things are still so amped up. I started playing with a self-imposed $30(ish)/deck limit, and still stick with that today as best I can. There are just way too many abilities, even on common creatures. I'd settle if they just had simple keyword abilities, like Lifelink, Trample, Death touch, etc. Instead its all contrived paragraphs. Even many if the new keywords they've introduced are complicated.

I have been able to run a group where we play legacy once a month with about 4-6 players experienced players. It's nice, but whenever someone brings in cards from new sets I groan.

I have thought about trying to design my own game that would be similar, but comprehensive and not bloated. Something more akin to chess, but with spells on top of it. Just a static game that would never change.

half the commons in pauper create subgames now, it's like even the designers of magic the gathering don't want to play it

 

[Akratus II]

I play EDH every friday night at my place, with my friends, and it's the highlight of my week. I got 3 pet decks I cooked up.

-Florian, Voldaren Scion
The commander is there to give me some card advantage or potentially just look through my entire deck for that one card. I play cards like Pox, Fraying Omnipotence, Havoc Festival, Descent into Avernus(play that with last laugh for infinite lulz), Furnace of Rath, Spiteful Visions, Dire Fleet Ravager, Everlasting Torment and Heartless Hidetsugu. I got all the cards I need. I'll take half your life turn 3. I make 50/50 crypt born horrors. Fuck you.

-Evra, Halcyon Witness
I gain life and play Test of Endurance, Approach of the Second sun, Felidar Sovereign or Celestial Convergence. Now for the lulzy part: I play cards that stop players from: Playing more than 1 card a turn, playing anything untapped, attacking me, dealing damage to me, targeting me, targeting my permanents, activating abilities... the list goes on. You can't do shit. Fuck you. (Don't worry I don't play this one regularly)

-Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
This is my ol' reliable. I just play creatures and blow up a big one somewhere around turn 10, if my graveyard is full and everybody is tapped, I unholster jarad and give em' the ol one two knockout.

Sometimes we play two headed edh, often we play with 5 or 6 players, sometimes we planechase. Sounds to me like the problem for you guys isn't the game but the people you play it with. Get better friends.

I've only bought boosters for other people. I get my cards on bazaarofmagic.eu. I've spent plenty of dough lately to put them into decks that would probably make a competitive player's toes curl, but around here we laugh at competitive edh. Sure, three of our players have bigger collections and play stronger combo's but nobody overdoes it and we all have a great time because they're bros. Everybody who comes around to play has their own unique and flavorful deck.

 

[ind33d]

I play EDH every friday night at my place, with my friends, and it's the highlight of my week. I got 3 pet decks I cooked up.

-Florian, Voldaren Scion
The commander is there to give me some card advantage or potentially just look through my entire deck for that one card. I play cards like Pox, Fraying Omnipotence, Havoc Festival, Descent into Avernus(play that with last laugh for infinite lulz), Furnace of Rath, Spiteful Visions, Dire Fleet Ravager, Everlasting Torment and Heartless Hidetsugu. I got all the cards I need. I'll take half your life turn 3. I make 50/50 crypt born horrors. Fuck you.

-Evra, Halcyon Witness
I gain life and play Test of Endurance, Approach of the Second sun, Felidar Sovereign or Celestial Convergence. Now for the lulzy part: I play cards that stop players from: Playing more than 1 card a turn, playing anything untapped, attacking me, dealing damage to me, targeting me, targeting my permanents, activating abilities... the list goes on. You can't do shit. Fuck you. (Don't worry I don't play this one regularly)

-Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
This is my ol' reliable. I just play creatures and blow up a big one somewhere around turn 10, if my graveyard is full and everybody is tapped, I unholster jarad and give em' the ol one two knockout.

Sometimes we play two headed edh, often we play with 5 or 6 players, sometimes we planechase. Sounds to me like the problem for you guys isn't the game but the people you play it with. Get better friends.

I've only bought boosters for other people. I get my cards on bazaarofmagic.eu. I've spent plenty of dough lately to put them into decks that would probably make a competitive player's toes curl, but around here we laugh at competitive edh. Sure, three of our players have bigger collections and play stronger combo's but nobody overdoes it and we all have a great time because they're bros. Everybody who comes around to play has their own unique and flavorful deck.

EDH sucks giga-cock. They purposely had to discontinue making starter decks and intro packs because everyone would just buy those instead

 

[Akratus II]

And?

 

[illuknisaa]

Commander precons is propably the best precon product wotc has made. You can actually take a precon to an fnm and have fun and maybe even win a game.

Intro decks on the hand sucked ass. Wotc purposefully made them bad. No wonder nobody wanted to buy them.

 

[deuxhero]

Not to mention a very capable pauper deck would cost less and play better. In-fact, that would probobly be the way to reintroduce intro decks: Make them based on a pauper archetype: White Weenies, Blue Merfolk (This one doesn't currently exist in pauper but Lord of Atlantis has been printed 9 times and there's a strictly better version at uncommon. They can downshift him to common.), Black sac-zombies, Red Spellslinger/burn, and Green Elves. There's a wide variety of effects, but they're going to be simple.

 

[Maldoror]

I have thought about trying to design my own game that would be similar, but comprehensive and not bloated. Something more akin to chess, but with spells on top of it. Just a static game that would never change.

That would be completely ideal. I agree that the cards are generally more fun with simple descriptors like lifelink, flying and trample and so forth, and it's when those abilities kick off and play out well in the game that I start to really enjoy it again. Plus, I always enjoyed the flavour text, and cards with 2 abilities and a bunch of description of those abilities never have the flavour.