Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

[Victor1234]

In medieval times the borders were not a line crossing across the land like today. When certain province ends was often more of an informal consensus than a clear line. Also small border skirmishes were commonplace even in the times of peace.

You should add village building and economy management. I want to set up new villages and build roads inbetween.

What do you think the purpose of a village should be in-game? I think they should be a source of:
(a) money
(b) resources (i.e. food, wood, iron, etc) and
(c) conscripts for the army

My thought is that instead of it just being a free-for-all where anyone can recruit soldiers from anywhere, the ability to conscript troops from a fief should be the sole right of that fief's owner. So the army would be structured like this.

The difference being that the levies actually outnumber the warriors by a dozen-to-one or whatever. So once you become a vassal, you immediately feel a huge increase in your power, because you now have access to hundreds more troops.

I think M&B/Bannerlord already does villages as well as they can be in a static way. They exist, there's some economic aspect, they spawn parties that can be intercepted, etc. People are upset you could build improvements in Warband and they didn't include it in Bannerlord, but that's life. Personally I found the improvements weren't cost effective anyways in WB, only grinding relationships to recruit better troops was.

I'm not sure what the criticism is about village recruiting though. Aside from the player, the AI lord recruits and all other AI just burn it or leave the villages alone. Does the enemy AI recruit from villages now?

Anyways, the original reason for including villages in M&B Warband was the Battle for Sicily mod for the original game (that dude ended up joining the dev team as a designer). In the mod, logistics and specifically food were a much bigger thing and villages were there to help simulate an aspect of supply lines more or less. Big parties would set out to siege a castle let's say, they'd break some troops off into a separate foraging party to raid the local villages to keep the siege going for longer, but the longer the siege went on, the further out they'd need to go for untouched villages and the more vulnerable they'd be to the enemy parties catching them and killing them. If the forager parties got taken out, the big siege army would eventually start running out of food and then be forced to break off the siege and go home.

It was a way to have indirect warfare, lead the enemy into ambushes, whittle away at them over time, etc and break up the 400 guys vs 400 guys battles that characterized the game before.

It was incorporated into the main game as more of a generic thing though (lords and the player can recruit from villages, villages supply towns with goods, you can trade with them for goods, etc) and the logistical aspect was lost, forager parties never became a thing and AI armies only take troops numbers and not food/supplies into account when making decisions.

Personally, I think instead of adding more chrome to villages as they are in game, they should make them more mobile/dynamic and that way make the map more dynamic. Big enemy army nearby? Villagers pack up and seek safety in the nearest castle, if the enemy burns the village they might not decide to come back to the same spot, etc. Basically, make villages pop up and disappear based on refugee flows sort of like bandit hideouts do.

 

[hayst]

Make a game that focuses heavily on logistics, like Cesar campaigns. Let the player win by building many kilometers long walls across the battlefield. See that walled city? Build a wall around it, so the defenders can't sally out at night. Then build a wall around yourself, so none can attack you when you besiege the enemy.

You could rather than have solders know you commands telepathically have couriers you send across the battlefield.

Mount and Blade Fortnite

 

[Marat]

Thinking of trying this one out. Best mods for first playthrough?

 

[Spectacle]

Anyways, the original reason for including villages in M&B Warband was the Battle for Sicily mod for the original game (that dude ended up joining the dev team as a designer). In the mod, logistics and specifically food were a much bigger thing and villages were there to help simulate an aspect of supply lines more or less. Big parties would set out to siege a castle let's say, they'd break some troops off into a separate foraging party to raid the local villages to keep the siege going for longer, but the longer the siege went on, the further out they'd need to go for untouched villages and the more vulnerable they'd be to the enemy parties catching them and killing them. If the forager parties got taken out, the big siege army would eventually start running out of food and then be forced to break off the siege and go home.

It was a way to have indirect warfare, lead the enemy into ambushes, whittle away at them over time, etc and break up the 400 guys vs 400 guys battles that characterized the game before.

It was incorporated into the main game as more of a generic thing though (lords and the player can recruit from villages, villages supply towns with goods, you can trade with them for goods, etc) and the logistical aspect was lost, forager parties never became a thing and AI armies only take troops numbers and not food/supplies into account when making decisions.

Not sure what you're talking about here. The original Mount & Blade had villages that spawned peasant parties and recruits from a pretty early Early Access version.

 

[Mortmal]

Thinking of trying this one out. Best mods for first playthrough?

For you ?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2881924249
https://www.loverslab.com/files/file/12674-bannerlord-mod-captivity-events/

 

[Victor1234]

Anyways, the original reason for including villages in M&B Warband was the Battle for Sicily mod for the original game (that dude ended up joining the dev team as a designer). In the mod, logistics and specifically food were a much bigger thing and villages were there to help simulate an aspect of supply lines more or less. Big parties would set out to siege a castle let's say, they'd break some troops off into a separate foraging party to raid the local villages to keep the siege going for longer, but the longer the siege went on, the further out they'd need to go for untouched villages and the more vulnerable they'd be to the enemy parties catching them and killing them. If the forager parties got taken out, the big siege army would eventually start running out of food and then be forced to break off the siege and go home.

It was a way to have indirect warfare, lead the enemy into ambushes, whittle away at them over time, etc and break up the 400 guys vs 400 guys battles that characterized the game before.

It was incorporated into the main game as more of a generic thing though (lords and the player can recruit from villages, villages supply towns with goods, you can trade with them for goods, etc) and the logistical aspect was lost, forager parties never became a thing and AI armies only take troops numbers and not food/supplies into account when making decisions.

Not sure what you're talking about here. The original Mount & Blade had villages that spawned peasant parties and recruits from a pretty early Early Access version.

Circa 2006 when I was playing the mod, there were no villages in the base game, then the modder (Nijis) got hired and they got added sometime after, looks like around late 2007. M&B had been in early access for 2 years by that point and was at something like version 0.800 (with 1.00 being full release in 2008). Here's some screens of what the map looked like back then:

Spoiler

 

[Victor1234]

Incidentally, I'm probably nostalgic for the mod (which the dude dropped when he got hired to work on the game) but it was something alright. If I had to guess, the AI was too hard to work out, so the vision got dropped for the more generic implementation that went into the base game. The game itself also moved away from the emphasis it had on food (IIRC there was even a food slot in the inventory screen you had to keep putting items into, now they just get eated out of anywhere in the inventory). RIP Tide of Conquest: Sicily

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...through-of-a-campaign-with-screenshots.53887/

 

[Wassersäufer]

Question for the group...

Let's say you felt so disgusted by the abject failure that is Bannerlord, that you decided to say fuck it and make your own Mount & Blade style game. What type of features would you include to differentiate your game from M&B, so that it doesn't come off as a low-budget clone?

Assume that at a minimum, you will be aiming for good combat, and prioritizing the game's simulation aspects so that the AI is competent instead of blatantly retarded, and the world feels believable instead of shallow and superficial.

What else would you try for? Here are a few I thought of.

Spoiler

- Design systems that allow you to expand your power by means other than just battle. Maybe you are great with money and can buy your way to the top. Or a schemer who attacks your rivals with propaganda, assassination, fraud, etc. Or a charismatic cult leader type who gets people to believe you are a messiah. Etc etc etc.

- Add castlebuilding and other cool features that Bannerlord doesn't have.

- Choose a setting that's different than M&B's faux-medieval one. This could draw on other real-life cultures, or even be a fantasy world with other races.

- Pick an art style that's more stylized and abstract compared to M&B's simulationist aesthetic.

- Add magic so that some characters can throw fireballs and stuff.

- Create different origin stories that affect who your allies and enemies are when you start the game.

- Create an end state goal that depends on fighting off an invasion. You aren't just trying to unify the kingdom so you can rule it -- someone has to pull everyone together or you'll all be killed.

Not saying any of these ideas are good or bad... they're just ideas. Thoughts?

Perhaps im infected with the CK-mindvirus but I thought the Rival Claimant Idea they had in WFAS was a nice touch. In general, I would like to see some actual intrigue and competition between the clans, perhaps different AI personalities (Schemer, Loyalist, Opportunist etc...) and so on. My biggest gripe in general with M&B is how static and lifeless the world feels. People exist, but they dont really do anything. Yeah, they will go around, recruit, patrol and join armies but thats kinda it.
Alternatively good battle AI and therefor interesting battles (better formations, orders) but I doubt we will ever see that.

 

[Victor1234]

Can't edit posts but it looks like old map pics didn't load for everyone. Try these:

Spoiler

 

[Humbaba]

Is the game good yet?

 

[Mortmal]

Is the game good yet?

Would say there's not so much progress compare to mount&blade really.

 

[Wassersäufer]

Is the game good yet?

Arent all turks contractually obligated to love this game? I thought thats what taleworlds spend most of the budget on.

 

[deuxhero]

Thinking of trying this one out. Best mods for first playthrough?

Detailed Character Creation+Children Are No Longer Invulnerable

 

[Peachcurl]

Is the game good yet?

Would say there's not so much progress compare to mount&blade really.

That would leave the door open for the game being good.

 

[Konjad]

Spoiler

 

[Akachi]

Incidentally, I'm probably nostalgic for the mod (which the dude dropped when he got hired to work on the game) but it was something alright. If I had to guess, the AI was too hard to work out, so the vision got dropped for the more generic implementation that went into the base game. The game itself also moved away from the emphasis it had on food (IIRC there was even a food slot in the inventory screen you had to keep putting items into, now they just get eated out of anywhere in the inventory). RIP Tide of Conquest: Sicily

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...through-of-a-campaign-with-screenshots.53887/

The food slot also let you put horses into it and it would convert them into horse meat. I remember being annoyed when they removed that feature because of that, and it still annoys me a bit they never readded a way to slaughter your horses, in either the original or even in Bannerlord.

 

[tindrli]

Question for the group...

Let's say you felt so disgusted by the abject failure that is Bannerlord, that you decided to say fuck it and make your own Mount & Blade style game. What type of features would you include to differentiate your game from M&B, so that it doesn't come off as a low-budget clone?

Assume that at a minimum, you will be aiming for good combat, and prioritizing the game's simulation aspects so that the AI is competent instead of blatantly retarded, and the world feels believable instead of shallow and superficial.

What else would you try for? Here are a few I thought of.

Spoiler

- Design systems that allow you to expand your power by means other than just battle. Maybe you are great with money and can buy your way to the top. Or a schemer who attacks your rivals with propaganda, assassination, fraud, etc. Or a charismatic cult leader type who gets people to believe you are a messiah. Etc etc etc.

- Add castlebuilding and other cool features that Bannerlord doesn't have.

- Choose a setting that's different than M&B's faux-medieval one. This could draw on other real-life cultures, or even be a fantasy world with other races.

- Pick an art style that's more stylized and abstract compared to M&B's simulationist aesthetic.

- Add magic so that some characters can throw fireballs and stuff.

- Create different origin stories that affect who your allies and enemies are when you start the game.

- Create an end state goal that depends on fighting off an invasion. You aren't just trying to unify the kingdom so you can rule it -- someone has to pull everyone together or you'll all be killed.

Not saying any of these ideas are good or bad... they're just ideas. Thoughts?

https://pop3.fandom.com/wiki/Prophesy_of_Pendor_3_Wiki

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

nice, i just arrived to ask if in the meantime we had had a new prophesy of pendor.

 

[Zanzoken]

I have a zillion hours in Warband but I have never actually played Pendor. I am pretty sure the devs of that mod said they were not planning to do a Bannerlord version.

I know In the Name of Jerusalem is coming to Bannerlord, which is one my brother really liked but I never got into.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

pop was the perfect mod until it took a turn for the worst of the worst: endless grind. endgame now is total bullshit, multiple +1k armies made of 200 armor 200 hp people is the absolute apex of bovine manure.

 

[Spectacle]

Incidentally, I'm probably nostalgic for the mod (which the dude dropped when he got hired to work on the game) but it was something alright. If I had to guess, the AI was too hard to work out, so the vision got dropped for the more generic implementation that went into the base game. The game itself also moved away from the emphasis it had on food (IIRC there was even a food slot in the inventory screen you had to keep putting items into, now they just get eated out of anywhere in the inventory). RIP Tide of Conquest: Sicily

https://forums.taleworlds.com/index...through-of-a-campaign-with-screenshots.53887/

The food slot also let you put horses into it and it would convert them into horse meat. I remember being annoyed when they removed that feature because of that, and it still annoys me a bit they never readded a way to slaughter your horses, in either the original or even in Bannerlord.

You can butcher your horses in Bannerlord the same way as cows, sheep and pigs.

 

[Akachi]

Thought I remembered you being able to butcher them in Bannerlord, but it's been a while since I played so I dismissed it as my imagination. At least that's something, took them long enough to readd that.

I wish the Brytenwalda team would do something for Bannerlord, but they don't appear to be, which isn't surprising since they're an actual developer now. They made Viking Conquest which still holds up as way better than Bannerlord. The lack of naval combat feels sorely missing, along with everything else. Not sure if it's just me, but Bannerlord's art direction feels atrocious too to the point it makes it distracting. The environments and towns are alright, but the game's art style feels overall bland and hard to look at like a lot of games that focus on technical graphics improvements over having quality artists. The characters tend to look ugly and goofy with a serious lack of variety in features like hairstyles to differentiate them, and the armour designs almost all look awful. I much prefer Viking Conquest graphically over Bannerlord, and Warband had much nicer armour designs and whatnot than Bannerlord too.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Thought I remembered you being able to butcher them in Bannerlord, but it's been a while since I played so I dismissed it as my imagination. At least that's something, took them long enough to readd that.

I wish the Brytenwalda team would do something for Bannerlord, but they don't appear to be, which isn't surprising since they're an actual developer now. They made Viking Conquest which still holds up as way better than Bannerlord. The lack of naval combat feels sorely missing, along with everything else. Not sure if it's just me, but Bannerlord's art direction feels atrocious too to the point it makes it distracting. The environments and towns are alright, but the game's art style feels overall bland and hard to look at like a lot of games that focus on technical graphics improvements over having quality artists. The characters tend to look ugly and goofy with a serious lack of variety in features like hairstyles to differentiate them, and the armour designs almost all look awful. I much prefer Viking Conquest graphically over Bannerlord, and Warband had much nicer armour designs and whatnot than Bannerlord too.

Kids in Bannerlord look like actual kids as opposed to the shrunken adults in Viking Conquest, I'll give them that much.

 

[Nathaniel3W]

Akachi I disagree about Warband having better armor designs. Warband's armor was much more generic medieval/renaissance. Bannerlord has variety and it's not the stereotypical armor that you expect from an RPG. The Roman-inspired Empire, the Celt-inspired Battania, the Mongol-inspired Khuzait, the Arab-inspired Aserai all have a unique look that isn't just tabards and plate armor.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

I might buy this in about 2 weeks.

How's the modding scene for this?
Is there anything comparable to Last Days of the 3rd Age, for example?

 

[deuxhero]

Akachi I disagree about Warband having better armor designs. Warband's armor was much more generic medieval/renaissance. Bannerlord has variety and it's not the stereotypical armor that you expect from an RPG. The Roman-inspired Empire, the Celt-inspired Battania, the Mongol-inspired Khuzait, the Arab-inspired Aserai all have a unique look that isn't just tabards and plate armor.

Infact, Bannerlord is the rare fantasy game that does a good, consistent, job of making its prequel actually look like it was set the correct amount of time (210 years) before Warband. The tech level shown in architecture, arms and armor is consistently akin to high middle ages over Warband's late middle ages (where plate is just coming into existence ala late 1300s)