KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now available on Early Access

[Spike]

Yeah I grabbed it at last before price goes up on release. Waiting for 1.0.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/836367155/monomyth/posts/4281075

State of the Game: Video Devlog 16.0 | Tools, Mines & Redesigns​

Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

It's time for a new project update! The last month has been filled with level design, programming, and optimizations. Early Access version 2.0 is currently scheduled for January. You can hear all about it in the latest video devlog:

As always you can find the transcript below!

Merry Christmas, a Happy New Year, and best wishes!

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

It’s time for the last devlog of the year. Monomyth’s early access version has been out for two months and a lot of work has gone into fixing errors and preparing new content. The first major content patch “Echos in the Dark” is currently scheduled for January. In it players will continue their journey into the depths below Lysandria. So let’s take a look at it.

Most of the new content takes place in the mines and factories below the heartlands. The area has gone through some major revisions in the last month. In fact, it went far beyond the announced restructuring. While much of the assets and questlines are still intact, most of the area’s base geometry has been redone. The normal course through the area has been completely reorganized and many locations have been dropped or replaced. As a result the area is much more intuitive in its design, easier to navigate and much better integrated with the rest of the game. It is still a highly complex area to get lost in. During the design process there has also been a stronger focus on different types of encounters, so it will be interesting to see how people’s playstyle will adapt coming from the heartlands.

When I remade large parts of the mines I applied a slightly different design approach. The original version of this area had a rough vision, which was implemented in an ad-hoc fashion. This means the bigger picture was more or less clear and the details were filled in step by step during the implementation process. This led to some nice vistas but all in all the area was much too big, annoying to navigate and hard to optimize.
So, for the new version of the area I went back to Monomyth’s original area design principles. I have talked about these principles a few times in the past, but to refresh your memory, let's go over them once more.
Basically, Monomyth applies the design principles found in the earlier levels of Ultima Underworld, where an area is split into several sections, connected via a center-piece or a long hallway that makes it easier to quickly travel through the place.
You can see this principle applied in the heartland’s river system, respectively the main road between the Serpent’s Bastion and Lysandria.
Sections are then built from rooms, respectively encounter locations. Here I made some small adjustments. I introduced subsections which bundle thematically connected rooms together and make exact planning easier.
The mines have pretty much exactly the same scale as the heartlands, but due to the subsection driven design, the density of rooms is slightly higher.
You can, by the way, find similar design principles in various online dungeon crawlers. The only difference: These usually do not have any major connecting hallways, as such would probably introduce unwanted chokepoints on the map.
For Monomyth on the other hand, that’s a positive, as it helps you quickly navigating through the map while still retaining somewhat of a directed map flow.

Anyway, the mines still require a detail pass in several areas, a sound pass and some coding. All in all, I think the map should be ready during January.

But level design was not the only thing I did during the last month. I have also worked a bit on better tooling. As I have mentioned in an earlier update most of Monomyth’s dialogue trees are actually designed and written in a simple table which is transformed into a struct by a Python script.
I finally found some time and started implementing a dialogue tool, so I can properly write, edit, visualize and fix my dialogue trees in one environment. I hope to get that tool into a usable state this month, so it can speed up the writing and quest design process.

I have also worked on a few fixes, as well as some optimizations, which were already contained in a new patch released a few days ago.

So this is where we currently stand. As mentioned in the beginning, the content patch will likely be ready during January. Until then, I’ll keep you updated and see you soon!

 

[Lyric Suite]

When is it gonna leave early access?

 

[sosmoflux]

If he's smart, never

 

[garren]

Copy the My Summer Car approach, the first game comes out of early access when Monomyth 2 hits early access.

 

[Momock]

Right now respecing might be a good idea, because I found that early on trying to play as an archer makes no sense because you don't find enough arrows. So I restarted as a mage and everything was much better!

So you can cheat by playing a mage until you respec to an archer once you have arrows? Maybe the point of being an archer is having more difficult ressource management in exchange of headshots from affar? Or maybe it is to have harder beginings and easier endings, unlike other classes with a more constant experience during all the game?

I dont know what the intentions of the designer were, it's also possible that playing warrior until you get lots of munition -> playing acher until your spend them -> playing a warrior again -> switch to mage on the doorstep of the final boss to blast his face with the best spells + 50 mana potions (big hoarding because I didn't use any during the game, never was a mage) is indeed the way to go, the "intended experience TM".

Respec is such bullshit, at so many levels... the thing has to die along with adaptative difficulty and quicksaves, the sooner the better.

 

[Tyranicon]

If he's smart, never

It's not a porn game where you actually make all your money off patreon by leading on a coomer audience base for months on end.

Most of the time, it's better financially to actually release the 1.0 than not.

 

[Anomander]

Right now respecing might be a good idea, because I found that early on trying to play as an archer makes no sense because you don't find enough arrows. So I restarted as a mage and everything was much better!

So you can cheat by playing a mage until you respec to an archer once you have arrows? Maybe the point of being an archer is having more difficult ressource management in exchange of headshots from affar? Or maybe it is to have harder beginings and easier endings, unlike other classes with a more constant experience during all the game?

I dont know what the intentions of the designer were, it's also possible that playing warrior until you get lots of munition -> playing acher until your spend them -> playing a warrior again -> switch to mage on the doorstep of the final boss to blast his face with the best spells + 50 mana potions (big hoarding because I didn't use any during the game, never was a mage) is indeed the way to go, the "intended experience TM".

Is that a real problem? I mean, are there people doing that? I have never used respec ever, so I am wondering whether someone would go that far. And why?

 

[Momock]

Right now respecing might be a good idea, because I found that early on trying to play as an archer makes no sense because you don't find enough arrows. So I restarted as a mage and everything was much better!

So you can cheat by playing a mage until you respec to an archer once you have arrows? Maybe the point of being an archer is having more difficult ressource management in exchange of headshots from affar? Or maybe it is to have harder beginings and easier endings, unlike other classes with a more constant experience during all the game?

I dont know what the intentions of the designer were, it's also possible that playing warrior until you get lots of munition -> playing acher until your spend them -> playing a warrior again -> switch to mage on the doorstep of the final boss to blast his face with the best spells + 50 mana potions (big hoarding because I didn't use any during the game, never was a mage) is indeed the way to go, the "intended experience TM".

Is that a real problem? I mean, are there people doing that? I have never used respec ever, so I am wondering whether someone would go that far. And why?

For the same reason we spend billions to throw trash on Mars or keep pushing AI even knowing it will kill us. Because we CAN, bitch!

No seriously, "go that far", do you read yourself? It's just pressing a button... just press a button, and all that dead weight in your inventory becomes usefull, then switch back. No big deal. Only a LARPing faggot wouldn't use it. I think I'm one of them, I never use respec, fuck that casual shit. But it plants the seed of doubt in my mind.... am I an idiot for not using it? Do the designer expect us to use it? Is the challenge tailored for it and that's why I have such a hard time to progress, because I don't use it? Or am I simply retarded?

I don't know! Get this trash out of my gaaaaaaames!!!

 

[sosmoflux]

If he's smart, never

It's not a porn game where you actually make all your money off patreon by leading on a coomer audience base for months on end.

Most of the time, it's better financially to actually release the 1.0 than not.

I think you've got an outdated read here
Most of the time it's far smarter to keep the gravy train moving, especially for a content rich game like Monomyth
1.0 usually doesn't do jack shit, a small bump, then game's dead / calcified and needs updates to regain interest anyway
People want to feel like the game is an ever growing/shifting/updating place

Plenty of pros/cons, especially on the dev side it sucks not finishing a game, but 5+ years in EA is the smart play for Monomyth, even if that means it has to become a side/passion project for much longer than he hoped
1.0 will just be taking it out the back to be shot

 

[mediocrepoet]

If he's smart, never

It's not a porn game where you actually make all your money off patreon by leading on a coomer audience base for months on end.

Most of the time, it's better financially to actually release the 1.0 than not.

Tell that to Chris Roberts.

 

[Tyranicon]

If he's smart, never

It's not a porn game where you actually make all your money off patreon by leading on a coomer audience base for months on end.

Most of the time, it's better financially to actually release the 1.0 than not.

Tell that to Chris Roberts.

Star Citizen is a porn game though.

I don't get sexually excited by starships, but I don't judge those who do.

I think you've got an outdated read here
Most of the time it's far smarter to keep the gravy train moving, especially for a content rich game like Monomyth
1.0 usually doesn't do jack shit, a small bump, then game's dead / calcified and needs updates to regain interest anyway
People want to feel like the game is an ever growing/shifting/updating place

Plenty of pros/cons, especially on the dev side it sucks not finishing a game, but 5+ years in EA is the smart play for Monomyth, even if that means it has to become a side/passion project for much longer than he hoped
1.0 will just be taking it out the back to be shot

It depends on a lot of things, but generally for a small indie passion project like this, with a dev who is giving every indication of intending to finish the game, I would say that reaching 1.0 quickly is ideal.

Games that want to stay in Early Access fall into a bunch of rather unsavory categories. Basically, if you have some type of captive audience, if your game's an outright scam, or if you anticipate that your 1.0 will be a dumpsterfire, then you want to keep the game in EA as long as possible because sales past 1.0 will be little to nil.

Not a lot of games hit that sweet spot to be popular enough in its EA period but unlikely to sell well in 1.0. Unless of course, you are raking in money from other sources like patreon.

Also EA in 2025 is going to be very rough as people have gotten burned way too many times. It's equivalent to running a kickstarter now compared to 10 years ago.

 

[sosmoflux]

Ok I'll put it like this, a prediction
Monomyth 1.0 release will move less than 1000 copies
The only way out of this timeline is to keep EA driving hard, work with the community, keep giving them what they want, dig out an X factor which will take 3 more years minimum
I've seen too many games rush 1.0 and die to be wrong here

 

[Inec0rn]

I won't buy anything in early access, I thought this was the norm but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Spike]

Ok I'll put it like this, a prediction
Monomyth 1.0 release will move less than 1000 copies
The only way out of this timeline is to keep EA driving hard, work with the community, keep giving them what they want, dig out an X factor which will take 3 more years minimum
I've seen too many games rush 1.0 and die to be wrong here

Why are you encouraging EA drip?

 

[sosmoflux]

So Monoman makes a good game and lots of money
There are enough games to play, I have no personal stake otherwise

 

[RatTower]

Respecing costs 1g20s at the moment and doubles in price everytime you do it btw
The most thorough players (that I know of) had like 4-6g at the end of their current playthroughs so I might push up the base price once more content is in the game.
The respec NPC is killable and you need

Spoiler

the Star Key

to get to it.
I was not all that enamoured with the idea of respecing either (you can technically grab some skill mastery achievements for free if you respec), but for early access, when some mechanics are still being rebalanced and reworked it's probably an okay solution. I generally want people to be able to keep their save states (at least as long as possible) so the fact that it's a content-driven game in EA doesn't weigh too heavily.

Speaking of EA: Some content-driven games build a solid user base during EA but push way beyond that on 1.0
It's usually games with 1k+ EA reviews that tend to go that route. Iirc Lunacid was like that. I believe it sat around 1k reviews for quite a while, and today (14 months after release) it's at 7k.
Similar story for Dread Delusion. People tend to avoid singleplayer content-driven games in EA because they want the full experience.
For "endless" games (e.g., builder or racing games) it doesn't really matter that much.

 

[Tyranicon]

Ok I'll put it like this, a prediction
Monomyth 1.0 release will move less than 1000 copies

I hope not, that sounds exceedingly small.

The only way out of this timeline is to keep EA driving hard, work with the community, keep giving them what they want, dig out an X factor which will take 3 more years minimum
I've seen too many games rush 1.0 and die to be wrong here

Of course, I'm not saying the RatTower should rush at all. Just finish the game through a natural process that results in a good end product.

Being good and enjoyable are still what sells games the most, despite what marketers and AAA devs want you to believe.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/908360/view/547851668943798565

Quick note about the coming update
Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

As you have probably already noticed the patch announced for January will be a little late.
Unfortunately, I got bogged down in some administrative work recently, which cost me more time than I expected. Nevertheless, good progress has been made!
The detail pass for the new mines is almost done and I can already say that the final performance will be significantly better than in the original version. Style-wise the new area is also a fair bit more recognizable. The flow of the level has also been improved massively, making it properly navigatable.

Some things are still missing, most notably two major quests, some scripts, and the soundscape. Itemization has been planned out in detail but needs to be realized (i.e. some items still have to be placed). Here are some impressions from the environment:

A shortcut maybe?

The factory below the heartlands is a vast underground complex.

A good place for fishing!

Perhaps a way upstairs?

All in all, I hope it won't take much longer than 2-3 weeks.
Just wanted to keep you up to date. I will create another dev diary in the near future.
Until then!

Best wishes,
Michael

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Right now respecing might be a good idea, because I found that early on trying to play as an archer makes no sense because you don't find enough arrows. So I restarted as a mage and everything was much better!

So you can cheat by playing a mage until you respec to an archer once you have arrows? Maybe the point of being an archer is having more difficult ressource management in exchange of headshots from affar? Or maybe it is to have harder beginings and easier endings, unlike other classes with a more constant experience during all the game?

I dont know what the intentions of the designer were, it's also possible that playing warrior until you get lots of munition -> playing acher until your spend them -> playing a warrior again -> switch to mage on the doorstep of the final boss to blast his face with the best spells + 50 mana potions (big hoarding because I didn't use any during the game, never was a mage) is indeed the way to go, the "intended experience TM".

Is that a real problem? I mean, are there people doing that? I have never used respec ever, so I am wondering whether someone would go that far. And why?

For the same reason we spend billions to throw trash on Mars or keep pushing AI even knowing it will kill us. Because we CAN, bitch!

No seriously, "go that far", do you read yourself? It's just pressing a button... just press a button, and all that dead weight in your inventory becomes usefull, then switch back. No big deal. Only a LARPing faggot wouldn't use it. I think I'm one of them, I never use respec, fuck that casual shit. But it plants the seed of doubt in my mind.... am I an idiot for not using it? Do the designer expect us to use it? Is the challenge tailored for it and that's why I have such a hard time to progress, because I don't use it? Or am I simply retarded?

I don't know! Get this trash out of my gaaaaaaames!!!

I think no respec is a bit too harsh for modern players but the way Dragon Quest XI handled is a nice middle ground. You pay money for each point you refund. So if you bought an ability that turned out to be pure trash you can easily undo it. But you can't just jump around different builds willy-nilly.

 

[Abu Antar]

I won't buy anything in early access, I thought this was the norm but maybe I'm wrong.

Nothing wrong with that.

I crowdfund some projects, knowing that anything (good or bad) can happen. For me, it's about supporting a select few projects, whose pitch really interest me.

 

[agris]

Right now respecing might be a good idea, because I found that early on trying to play as an archer makes no sense because you don't find enough arrows. So I restarted as a mage and everything was much better!

So you can cheat by playing a mage until you respec to an archer once you have arrows? Maybe the point of being an archer is having more difficult ressource management in exchange of headshots from affar? Or maybe it is to have harder beginings and easier endings, unlike other classes with a more constant experience during all the game?

I dont know what the intentions of the designer were, it's also possible that playing warrior until you get lots of munition -> playing acher until your spend them -> playing a warrior again -> switch to mage on the doorstep of the final boss to blast his face with the best spells + 50 mana potions (big hoarding because I didn't use any during the game, never was a mage) is indeed the way to go, the "intended experience TM".

Respec is such bullshit, at so many levels... the thing has to die along with adaptative difficulty and quicksaves, the sooner the better.

If this sort of emergent optimization arises out of the mechanics, the dev may want to formally harness it in the form of careers or multi/dual class approach.