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KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now available on Early Access

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,108
Location
Lusitânia
I should note at this point that I'm not a big fan of lore dumps. So most books will probably be decoration. Unless I find a better use for them.

Books are IMO one of the most natural and less intrusive ways to do a lore dump.

Actually I just thought of a good idea. Since your setting is akin to Underworld/Arx/King's Field (a lost/ruined temple/city) you could have very few books/documents but all with useful information for the Hero's Journey. These would range from topics such as lore, to enemies, spells, relics and even dungeon areas.
And these of course, would have to be placed in a way that both enhanced the exploration and was in consistence with the world building.


dLKMCKc.png

This would make a nice easter egg.

:rpgcodex:
 
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SophosTheWise

Cipher
Joined
Feb 19, 2013
Messages
522
I should note at this point that I'm not a big fan of lore dumps. So most books will probably be decoration. Unless I find a better use for them.

Books are IMO one of the most natural and less intrusive ways to do a lore dump.

Actually I just thought of a good idea. Since your setting is akin to Underworld/Arx/King's Field (a lost/ruined temple/city) you could have very few books/documents but all with useful information for the Hero's Journey. These would range from topics such as lore to enemies, spells, relics and even dungeon areas.
And these of course, would have to be placed in a way that both enhanced the exploration and was in consistence with the world building.



Nah, books are not good lore dumps, because they are really lazy. In a way, yes, they are natural, sure. But in the end they're just the easy way out to flesh out your world without having to really think about how to integrate your lore into the game. I'm a big fan of environmental storytelling, mainly because it's a courageous way of telling your story.

Books and codexes (my oh my) are done, because devs are afraid that players wouldn't "get" the world and its story. Figuring stuff out for yourselves is so much more fun than reading it all in a boringly written book.
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,108
Location
Lusitânia
I should note at this point that I'm not a big fan of lore dumps. So most books will probably be decoration. Unless I find a better use for them.

Books are IMO one of the most natural and less intrusive ways to do a lore dump.

Actually I just thought of a good idea. Since your setting is akin to Underworld/Arx/King's Field (a lost/ruined temple/city) you could have very few books/documents but all with useful information for the Hero's Journey. These would range from topics such as lore to enemies, spells, relics and even dungeon areas.
And these of course, would have to be placed in a way that both enhanced the exploration and was in consistence with the world building.

Nah, books are not good lore dumps, because they are really lazy. In a way, yes, they are natural, sure. But in the end they're just the easy way out to flesh out your world without having to really think about how to integrate your lore into the game. I'm a big fan of environmental storytelling, mainly because it's a courageous way of telling your story.

Books and codexes (my oh my) are done, because devs are afraid that players wouldn't "get" the world and its story. Figuring stuff out for yourselves is so much more fun than reading it all in a boringly written book.

It really depends on the world/setting you're trying to build and well you implement it (and also partly due to the quality of the writer and the game's lore).

Look at Morrowind. While it does have environmental storytelling done very well, the way they did books was even better.
Some books are incomplete or are unreliable (the older they are, the worse it gets), certain details change depending on the region and author, religious and philosophical books are filled with allegories and are open interpretation, some truths can be found in poems and legends and even the most reliable and neutral works have some bias.
And all of this amount of detail adds to the sense that Vvardenfell is a living world, with as much complexity as our own.
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
476
It's been a while, so here are a couple of things I did over the course of the last few weeks:

Interactive crystalballs:


Environment:


Archery is now (finally) part of the game:


As mentioned above I also added a couple of things that are mostly menu-based:
- Notes (which I reintroduced) can now contain images.
- Maps
- Level Up menu

Did the latter in preparation of the new save system/main menu, which will probably be the next thing. That and quick weapon switching, which is probably also the right opportunity to re-think the magic system.
I also realized that the game's features require a little more explanation, so I redid a good chunk of the beginning of the game.
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
476
Currently implementing the magic system. Thought I could shed a bit of light on that and maybe get some ideas/feedback.
This is basically how magic works at the moment:

You've got your Intelligence and your Focus attribute.
Intelligence determines which spells you can cast, Focus determines your mana pool.
In the game's world you can find scrolls. Picking those up adds them to your spellbook.
With the spells in your spellbook, you can prepare them at a shrine (which is also where you save the game, level up and put caste symbols but I'll talk about that in a bit).
You have a limited amount of slots to prepare spells in. Once you chose a couple of spells you need to equip a tome, pretty much like a regular weapon.
A tome lets you cast the spells you just chose (you can switch spells with the mouse wheel).
There are two spell types: Instant spells and summons. Summons take a while, whereas instant spells are cast instantly as the name subtly implies.
You can cast spells until you run out of mana. There are ways to restore your mana during battle.
Most spells are tied in with the status effect system mentioned in an earlier update.

So far so good. Pretty basic, so here comes a bit of flavour:
Magic is categorized in "castes". Currently there are four castes.
  • Divine: Light magic with focus on healing/curing
  • Demonic: Fire & brimstone, also buffs and summons
  • Aura: Everything "natural", mostly poison/paralyze/etc
  • Cosmic: Everything "unnatural" - lots of attribute reductions/curses

I'm actually a bit on the fence with Demonic. I like infernal magic as a concept, but it could be fit into Aura and Cosmic. Then you could have a nice rock/paper/scissors system with Divine beating Aura, Aura beating Cosmic and Cosmic beating Divine. So this is one thing I'm not sure about yet.

Another thing I'm not sure about yet is what determines the amount of spell slots. The easiest solution would probably be to bind the amount of slots to Intelligence or Focus.

Another thing I've been thinking about was "fast travelling" via magic. Every Underworld-like game from UU1 to King's Field 4 and Arx has some kind of fast travelling system. UU has gate travel, King's Field has "Star Gates"/marker stones and magic wands and Arx has portals. So far Monomyth is taking an approach close to King's Field.
Every magic caste has a holy symbol that has to be recovered first. For example the holy symbol of the divine caste is a golden chalice. Placing it at a shrine lets you teleport to said shrine using the appropriate divine spell (there is a divine/cosmic/demonic/aura teleportation spell).
The thing I'm not sure about here is where to allow this. Technically I could allow it everywhere in the world, but I don't want to make it that easy. So there could be the restriction that you can only teleport in front of a shrine (much like the magic circles in KF4). This is something I'm not sure about right now either.

Another thing I've been thinking about are caste-specific tomes. Meaning that certain tomes might strengthen certain spells depending on their caste (e.g. a demonic tome increases the damage of your fireball spell; a divine tome makes your healing spell more effective, etc, etc)

To conclude, a couple of WIP screenshots:

Scrolls color-coded according to their respective caste:

eRMwk1X.jpg



Casting a healing spell. Currently untextured on the left is a tome. Tomes are "two handed" weapons because the right hand is used for casting.

QMzhdRx.jpg



A shrine with the holy symbol of the divine caste placed in it.

QionVky.jpg



And that's basically it for the moment. Please feel free to share your thoughts on these things.
 
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Lagi

Augur
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
827
Location
Desert
[didnt read all this pages about Monomyth]
i'd say as for action game magic system could work similar like with combat items [axe, sword, hammer].

player find magic gear [book, scroll, orb, wand, staff, vodoo dolls, magic dust], which allow him to cast specific spells [or make rituals/summons].

depends from player stats [point in magic schools/ caste] he can use some artifacts better, worse or not at all [skill requirement] - cast faster, do more damage, consume less ammo [charge in staff/wand. mana for scroll/book. health for orb], less chance for fumble.

each magic weapon should have min. requirement so the char builds matter.

amount of available spell depend from used set. if player want many spell, he have to carry lots of junk.

some magic gear combination, could produce interesting results:
tome of summons + candle => ritual for calling demons
tome of light + magic dust => ritual for creating magic trap/ force barrier
orb + serpent staff => guide "missiles" in form of snakes

general idea: akimbo (2 items in 2 hands) = slow ritual effect.

"unarmed" casting could be an poor option. f.ex. some telekinetic push. burning hands touch. freezing touch [slow down for seconds enemy].
==============
shrine teleport sounds good
 

RatTower

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
476
Really quick question, since I saw it in the feedback for UA a couple of times:
Outlines or highlighting?


2iofGAP.jpg
 

AdolfSatan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
2,028
I'd say B, but can you provide a screenshot where we can see it in the context of the whole room?
 

PrettyDeadman

Guest
Really quick question, since I saw it in the feedback for UA a couple of times:
Outlines or highlighting?


2iofGAP.jpg
Have you considering doing it in a different way entirely, instead of fiddling with glow settings:

Snap122_1.jpg

It's difficult to imagine a more prestigious way to highlight objects than this.
 

Siveon

Bot
Joined
Jul 13, 2013
Messages
4,510
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
While I don't think A is outright "decline", I do prefer B. Subtly is nice.
 

Zep Zepo

Titties and Beer
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
5,233
I prefer B.

I'd prefer it a little more pronounced than the images you provided though.

Zep--
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,108
Location
Lusitânia
You can cast spells until you run out of mana. There are ways to restore your mana during battle.

How about sorcery running on stamina instead of mana?

Another thing I'm not sure about yet is what determines the amount of spell slots. The easiest solution would probably be to bind the amount of slots to Intelligence or Focus.

IMHO that's the best way to deal with that problem.

I'm actually a bit on the fence with Demonic. I like infernal magic as a concept, but it could be fit into Aura and Cosmic. Then you could have a nice rock/paper/scissors system with Divine beating Aura, Aura beating Cosmic and Cosmic beating Divine.
...
Another thing I've been thinking about are caste-specific tomes. Meaning that certain tomes might strengthen certain spells depending on their caste (e.g. a demonic tome increases the damage of your fireball spell; a divine tome makes your healing spell more effective, etc, etc)

You could very well run with these ideas.

Every magic caste has a holy symbol that has to be recovered first. For example the holy symbol of the divine caste is a golden chalice. Placing it at a shrine lets you teleport to said shrine using the appropriate divine spell (there is a divine/cosmic/demonic/aura teleportation spell).
The thing I'm not sure about here is where to allow this. Technically I could allow it everywhere in the world, but I don't want to make it that easy. So there could be the restriction that you can only teleport in front of a shrine (much like the magic circles in KF4). This is something I'm not sure about right now either.

That's easy. The player could only teleport from one shrine to another - if you want to make it harder then the player could only teleport to shrines of the same caste. You could also create a scarce item (that was depleted on use) that allowed the player to instantly travel to the last shrine he visited.
 

XJW

Literate
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Messages
5
B.
But I agree with Pretty, the way its done in Deus Ex looks better. Might look shit in a fantasy game though.
EDIT: Game looks awesome BTW, looking forward to it.
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
3,178
Location
デゼニランド
In Deus Ex this kind of item highlighting was cleverly inserted into the lore and suited the game well. IMO, inserting something like this into a fantasy game without any adjustments to the style would most likely ruin it.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
In Deus Ex this kind of item highlighting was cleverly inserted into the lore and suited the game well. IMO, inserting something like this into a fantasy game without any adjustments to the style would most likely ruin it.

Nobody explained why you can see your head in Doom. It somehow managed just fine.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
3,524
Really quick question, since I saw it in the feedback for UA a couple of times:
Outlines or highlighting?


2iofGAP.jpg

Please do not go A. It is ugly as hell (just like in Underworld Ascendant). B actually looks really good and is more functional.
 

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