KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now available on Early Access

[The Wall]

Devs are scared of losing any customers. Different game modes are Solomonic solution

 

[fork]

Devs are scared of losing any customers. Different game modes are Solomonic solution

No it's not, because it corrupts the artist's vision, assuming he has one. Trying to please everyone is the best way to produce shit, as evidenced by the state of games (and pretty much everything else tbh) in 2021.

 

[LudensCogitet]

Devs are scared of losing any customers. Different game modes are Solomonic solution

No it's not, because it corrupts the artist's vision, assuming he has one. Trying to please everyone is the best way to produce shit, as evidenced by the state of games (and pretty much everything else tbh) in 2021.

I'm a little baffled here. How has adding save anywhere corrupted the design of this game?

 

[HoboForEternity]

Devs are scared of losing any customers. Different game modes are Solomonic solution

No it's not, because it corrupts the artist's vision, assuming he has one. Trying to please everyone is the best way to produce shit, as evidenced by the state of games (and pretty much everything else tbh) in 2021.

I'm a little baffled here. How has adding save anywhere corrupted the design of this game?

Too dumb to realize if you don't like the feature you can always not use the save feature unless you're in shrines or whatever.

"But muh imma big brain gamerZz i am trained to use every toolz at mah disposals!"

Yeah sure your problem.

 

[Ysaye]

TBH I would have preferred the original save system (I like the tension of not being able to save anywhere) but I accept RatTower 's take on it; Ultima Underworld (one of the inspirations for this) allowed you to save any time and as such you can experiment with stuff / tactics / etc. He didn't invoke the argument of lost time/ casual gaming, and to be honest I don't see how someone could have been concerned about that because in the demo there was a shrine at short distance to anywhere.

The shrines are still used to level up, so they retain a purpose. If the decision on the free-saving is final then it would be good from a design perspective if the rest of the game had Shrines only placed sparingly. Perhaps as DLC there can be a "Rodents will die" version that only allows the use of the original save system?

 

[Butter]

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[Narushima]

I guess that's one way of reaching that chest.

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[Ivan]

reminds me of Vaporum

 

[mindx2]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/836367155/monomyth/posts/3326158

State of the Project: Final Funding | Current Progress | Level Design

Hi, dungeon-crawling fans!

It's almost been two months since the Kickstarter so today I would like to give you a little update on the current development status of Monomyth.


Final Funding

Unfortunately, I have to start with a bit of a downer: The Kickstarter money has been transferred, however, it turned out that one major donor has dropped their pledge (8k), by not updating their credit card information. Nevertheless, the final amount (plus €950 from the Encore) is still a very good sum that can finance a good bit of contract work. The money is already allocated but I will still try to activate additional funds and patch up the hole in the original budget. Either way, it won't have an effect on the planned development, the current goal of which is content creation.


Current Progress

As you know, I have been busily designing levels over the last one and a half months. During the first month, I was still getting used to the new mode of operation but by now it's a very smooth process from concepts, to blockouts, to final results. I have had my own way of going through these steps for a while, but I also went ahead and complemented that with some reading material I had lying around for some time:

Preproduction Blueprint describes a nicely structured level design process that I could easily combine with my own (which is, for all intents and purposes, a bastardization of "Feature-driven development"). I think some steps could go before others and some pages might require another read by the editor, but all in all, I feel it's a recommendable book on the subject.

At one point the author speaks of the distinction between open-world and non-linear game environments. While many games can be intuitively put into one of these two categories, the design process makes the difference obvious on a technical level. Monomyth, like its inspirations, falls into the latter category. In this update (and perhaps a few others in the future) I would like to go into detail, what that means for Monomyth's level design.

Spoiler

Level Design

An important consideration, that makes or breaks any non-linear environment is the overall layout of a level's individual sections. Layout affects nearly all non-visual aspects of level design, such as (felt) size, interwovenness, or flow (meaning the player's ease of navigation towards a specific goal). It further determines how well the sections of a level fit together. As a result, the level's layout simplifies or complicates the design process.

The question is, how to come up with a proper layout for your level in the first place. Generally speaking, it is advantageous to come up with the layout very early in the design process. This is, of course, a bit of a dilemma, because in the early stages of the process you do not know the look and content of the level's individual sections, which, in combination, ultimately have an impact on the final layout. So, here are two ways of tackling that problem:

a) You design the individual sections first and fit them together (bottom-up approach), or

b) you use simple geometric shapes and build an abstracted final layout, by the example of which you will design the individual sections (top-down approach).

Depending on the environment you are making, either approach may make sense. The former approach usually offers more freedom for the creation of the individual sections, but also holds the potential for what can be described as the level design equivalent of feature creep: A lot of times people (including myself) tend to try and fit too many ideas into what should be a well defined, finite task, ideally built around a single idea. The results can be incoherent section designs, especially in terms of detail and size.

The latter approach mitigates this issue, by providing geometric shapes acting as the boundaries of your sections. This gives you a rough guideline on the final section size and generally forces you to consider the realization of your ideas within a limited space. The latter of course does not stop people (again, including myself) to still try and fit as much into a level's section as possible. As a result, sections may feel cramped. In other words, something you should constantly keep in the back of your head is how to use a given space in a balanced manner.


So let us take a look at a few examples, which I do not claim to have been designed by these principles, but which seem to be in line with their core ideas. An example for the first approach is "The Lost City", the 10th Mission of Looking Glass' "Thief Gold".

(This screenshot was taken in DeViewer by the way - you can also look at System Shock 2's levels with that tool)


You can probably immediately see the individual sections, most distinctively the entrance on the left and the mage's expedition on the upper right. These are very isolated areas, with only one way in and out. There is no problem in designing, even completely implementing these sections and moving them around in the level, changing the final layout. In fact, they are so isolated, you could even take them to a completely different level (Level 4, "Down In the Bonehoard" comes to mind) and you would be fine. The same is true for many other sections of the Lost City. The tower in the center as well as the living quarters in the north are largely isolated and could be used in completely different levels.

So, at least in theory, this level could be designed in a largely bottom-up approach, where you create the sections first and fit them together in a hopefully advantageous way. The long hallways connecting the individual sections seem to indicate something like that may have even happened, though they may also be attributed to the initial idea of the level, which is a long-winded, maze-like ruin of an ancient civilization. These hallways also highlight one of the problems of the approach and one of the issues a lot of people seemed to have with this mission: It's a bit of a slog.


In contrast, I would like to draw your attention to Thief's first level, "Lord Bafford's Manor", where the individual sections are significantly stronger interwoven and more simple in shape. Obviously, this is due to the fact that most of the level is set in a realistic, largely symmetric building which gives us a hint, when to use which approach. Either way, the level is still sectioned and this becomes very clear when we take a look at the map:

The manor itself can roughly be separated into five sections: The basement, the back (kitchen), the middle (pool and hallways on two levels), the front (guard rooms and gate), and the throne room plus its neighboring rooms. We can identify these sections by looking at how they connect to each other and how the player progresses through them. Generally, the progression goes "Basement -> Back -> Middle -> Throne Room -> Middle" and then the player escapes through the side gate in the north. The front is mostly irrelevant and deadly due to all the guards. The middle connects to all parts of the manor, except the basement, which also makes it the part of the level you navigate through most of the time. This type of section could be called a "connector".

Going with a top-down approach, a series of geometric shapes can be fit around such a connector and create an abstracted final layout which is then filled in. In the map above these shapes are simple rectangles, but of course you could always go with something more complex. Since the second floor introduces the z-axis to the design one may want to use a 3D tool during the layout phase:

Now, this is how Thief does it, but we can also see a similar approach in Ultima Underworld, an earlier Looking Glass game and one of Monomyth's main inspirations. As one of the most obvious examples, we can refer to Level 2 of the Stygian Abyss:

The level consists of four sections built around a cross-shaped connector. Despite its simplicity, this is an excellent way of structuring the level. There are four thematically different sections, each of which are largely built around a single idea (the blueprint quest, the marble room, the mountain folk, and the monster quest). Thanks to the connector every part of the level can be reached relatively quickly and the player can concentrate on the actual challenges (which is not to say, that exploration can not be a challenge in itself - and a quite entertaining one if there is verticality involved).


So, how are these principles applied to Monomyth? The project mostly relies on a top-down approach. You could already see this in the Serpent's Bastion, the level you explored in the Kickstarter demo:

The valley, as well as the adjacent entrance areas at both ends (including the tower), act as a connector between the lower bastion, the caves, the trading house, and the castle. In each of these sections, you will find one of the seals necessary to open the magic gate and finish the demo. The usual progression goes in the order mentioned before, however, there is technically no problem in lockpicking the tower, entering the castle, and progressing through the level in the opposite direction. It has to be added, that this level is meant as a tutorial and therefore, deliberately designed with a more linear flow in mind. By locking the tower, players are more likely to first go through the lower bastion and continue with the caves. The connector sections of later levels in the game are generally more open.

So, with a little bit of abstraction as well as a good layout the design and creation of levels can become a smooth and fun process. How to go about it naturally depends on the actual environment, but it is probably a good idea to keep a well-structured method in the back of your head.


Next time we will take a look at section design, where the rubber really hits the road! Until then!


Michael

Any time you use Thief and Underworld as examples is pure designing gold in my worldview!!!

 

[Abu Antar]

Well, that's shitty for him about the big money backer doing that. Could be for any reason, really.

 

[RatTower]

According to Kickstarter, something like that should not be possible:

A dropped pledge is unfortunately not the same as a cancelled pledge.
A pledge is dropped if a user's card information is invalid and the money can't be collected.
More correctly one should probably say the pledge was dropped by Kickstarter.
But then again, it's the users managing their card information.
Can't really say how much intentionality is behind it.

There were actually a couple more of these pledges, but they barely amounted to 200 euros.
The money was transferred and the invoice was entered. It's a kick in the nuts, sure, but there is no point brooding over it. Especially since the next one (20% taxes) is just around the corner. The Kickstarter fees were actually slightly lower than expected (8.6 instead of 10%).
Anyway, it's still a very good result I am glad about.

 

[Narushima]

According to Kickstarter, something like that should not be possible:

Apparently this backer did not cancel the pledge, his card expired, and since you are only charged once the project reaches the end, then that pledge could not go through: https://help.kickstarter.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005126094-When-is-my-card-charged-

 

[Narushima]

The fact that Kickstarter isn't making sure that the provided credit card data is valid

They do, but if it's valid during the kickstarter and expires after it ends, the card can't be charged.

That being said, that does seem disingenuous, because their payment processor seems to be able to redirect a refund from an expired card to the one that replaces it. You'd think they could do the same for the payment of pledges.

 

[RatTower]

I assume you have already tried reaching out to the backer as that Kickstarter article suggests?

Tried it, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
They already received three or four reminders during the "Errored" phase.

 

[FreshCorpse]

It's a kick in the nuts, sure, but there is no point brooding over it. Especially since the next one (20% taxes) is just around the corner.

Why is it that you pay 20% tax on this income? Austrian VAT? I ask because companies usually pay taxes on net profits not on general cash transfers.

Commiserations on the deadbeat backer. What a shit

 

[RatTower]

It's a kick in the nuts, sure, but there is no point brooding over it. Especially since the next one (20% taxes) is just around the corner.

Why is it that you pay 20% tax on this income? Austrian VAT? I ask because companies usually pay taxes on net profits not on general cash transfers.

Yep, it's VAT. I have to declare it every quarter.

Now, I'm a layman in the field but technically VAT is a "pass-through tax", meaning that it shouldn't affect companies and is paid by the end-consumer of a product. Unfortunately, it isn't quite so simple.

Basically what happens is, every time you buy something you pay 20% VAT. That's just included in the price.
Vice versa, every time you sell something 20% of those profits have to be declared as VAT (KS pledges count as selling something as far as I know).

The "idea" is that you declare that 20% of your profits as VAT and (as a company) you can deduct that other 20% you paid.
Ideally, this is a zero-sum game for the company, but here comes the problem: What if the company barely buys anything?
Well, then you're shit outta luck, cause you can't deduct anything either and the full 20% from your profits go to the taxman. The only way to "avoid" paying that tax is immediately spending those profits on VAT-relevant goods and services again. Now, I have already allocated a good chunk of that money, but spending it all till December is neither sensible nor feasible. So to a certain extent, you basically gotta bite the bullet there. But wait! Here comes the next slap in the face: All the Kickstarter money that's still on the company's bank account on the 1st of January '22 gets taxed another 25% (profit tax). So, in the worst case, the full tax rate would be ~40%. With my current allocation, it's like 35%. Perhaps my accountant can still come up with something.

Another thing to mind here: After all that taxing, I have not paid a single rent - cause that money is company money and in order to finance core development (=paying bills) I would have to pay myself a part of it as a salary, which is taxed yet again (because it is compounding with my income from the beginning of the year when I was still employed). The only way of avoiding that is bleeding (private) cash till January and then paying myself in the lowest tax class.

And then that cash will sustain me for around seven months (btw on a level that is lower than my unemployment benefits were, so there's another fun twist to the story).

So at this point, you can probably see, why I also emphasized that I will try and activate further funds. But you know what?
If that succeeds (and that's a big if), who's waiting around the corner?

Spoiler

It's the taxman saying...

But the real chef's kiss is this: There are people who are absolutely baffled by the low numbers of company foundations around here.
That's like the final punchline of a divine comedy. That's how perfect it is.

Don't get me wrong. I greatly enjoy my situation and I can arrange myself with these things, but some of it is just laughable.

 

[Gargaune]

VAT

VAT's always been horseshit, they tax you on "added value" and then they tax you for turning a profit on that added value. But then that's the game, taxes are always however much the state can sucker a sufficient part of the population into tolerating as "fair."

that money is company money and in order to finance core development (=paying bills) I would have to pay myself a part of it as a salary

Are you allowed to pull dividends from your company? I don't know Austrian tax law, but maybe it's worth asking your accountant.

 

[RatTower]

VAT

VAT's always been horseshit, they tax you on "added value" and then they tax you for turning a profit on that added value. But then that's the game, taxes are always however much the state can sucker a sufficient part of the population into tolerating as "fair."

that money is company money and in order to finance core development (=paying bills) I would have to pay myself a part of it as a salary

Are you allowed to pull dividends from your company? I don't know Austrian tax law, but maybe it's worth asking your accountant.

Yep, you can pull dividends. And just like with stocks you pay 27.5% capital gain tax.
Recently some clever guy at the tax office had the glorious idea that those dividends should also factor into the calculation basis of your mandatory social insurance. So, whenever you pull dividends that produces extra costs on that end as well.
I don't think that is even in the law. It's just "interpretation lol". They don't do it with regular dividends either cause they know that would cause so much additional work for the tax office that they probably couldn't handle it.

 

[baud]

From my (admitedly limited) time working with people who were self-employed, I remember they were able to file some personal expense as business expanses, so they'd avoid to pay taxes on it (well, they wouldn't pay income taxes on the money they would have used for those expenses); I remember examples like paying car maintenance, personal office space renovation, meals, suits for those working in finance, computer equipment... But then of course it was in France, so different fiscal regime and I guess your accountant would have told you about this

 

[Gargaune]

Yep, you can pull dividends. And just like with stocks you pay 27.5% capital gain tax.
Recently some clever guy at the tax office had the glorious idea that those dividends should also factor into the calculation basis of your mandatory social insurance. So, whenever you pull dividends that produces extra costs on that end as well.
I don't think that is even in the law. It's just "interpretation lol". They don't do it with regular dividends either cause they know that would cause so much additional work for the tax office that they probably couldn't handle it.

Sorry, man. If you're gonna do an extra PayPal run, I'm game if you think you'll be able to give backers the choice of a GOG release. It was that and the checkpoint saves that had me on the fence, and the latter's no longer an issue.

On a sidenote, your demo finally got me playing Arx Fatalis, so cheers!

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Gog release?

 

[FreshCorpse]

...

Tax is shitty and depressing but as one "company owner" to another I say: you are probably being pessimistic about what you can achieve. Here are some ideas for you to lessen the blow:

1. Resist recognising KS pledges as revenue. In order to recognise revenue under IFRS accounting standards the customer needs to have received the product (amongst other things). That is not your case. If you do not recognise your revenue then you will not be liable for VAT, simple as. Perhaps you will need to recognise some - people who have paid to get access to discord and so on - but the majority of revenue should be recognised when you ship your product.

2. Do not state a profit. You have received an advance payment, you have not made a profit. Corporation tax should not apply just to cash you are holding on a date but instead sales minus cost of sales minus expenses. You don't have any sales - see above, so you should have nearly no profit. Ideally, you should have a loss which you (depending on Austrian corporation tax law) will be able to carry over into future tax years and net against profit.

3. Use a director's loan, or whatever that is called in Austria, for the period in which it is tax inefficient for you to take a salary. Repay it only when it is tax efficient to take a salary. You are the company owner so you can decide the terms.

4. Make sure you look for tax reliefs and deferrals. Some of these can be significant. For example the 35k EUR turnover threshold which gives you a total exemption from VAT - presumably for some reason you do not qualify for that?

Your accountant hopefully can help you with this but it may be that they are not minded to mention it proactively so they may need a prod. Unfortunately unlike in the movies you cannot rely on your accountant to actually handle your accounts. At your (our) scale of business they are really just present to help with the filings.

 

[mediocrepoet]

...

Tax is shitty and depressing but as one "company owner" to another I say: you are probably being pessimistic about what you can achieve. Here are some ideas for you to lessen the blow:

1. Resist recognising KS pledges as revenue. In order to recognise revenue under IFRS accounting standards the customer needs to have received the product (amongst other things). That is not your case. If you do not recognise your revenue then you will not be liable for VAT, simple as. Perhaps you will need to recognise some - people who have paid to get access to discord and so on - but the majority of revenue should be recognised when you ship your product.

2. Do not state a profit. You have received an advance payment, you have not made a profit. Corporation tax should not apply just to cash you are holding on a date but instead sales minus cost of sales minus expenses. You don't have any sales - see above, so you should have nearly no profit. Ideally, you should have a loss which you (depending on Austrian corporation tax law) will be able to carry over into future tax years and net against profit.

3. Use a director's loan, or whatever that is called in Austria, for the period in which it is tax inefficient for you to take a salary. Repay it only when it is tax efficient to take a salary. You are the company owner so you can decide the terms.

4. Make sure you look for tax reliefs and deferrals. Some of these can be significant. For example the 35k EUR turnover threshold which gives you a total exemption from VAT - presumably for some reason you do not qualify for that?

Your accountant hopefully can help you with this but it may be that they are not minded to mention it proactively so they may need a prod. Unfortunately unlike in the movies you cannot rely on your accountant to actually handle your accounts. At your (our) scale of business they are really just present to help with the filings.

This is good advice, though some of it may depend on your country's tax laws and whether you're actually to be reporting under IFRS or some other accounting standard, or if you're small enough that actual standards don't really apply. Generally speaking though he's right, the cash you've received is deferred revenue until you've delivered or failed to deliver. The issue that you may run into is if your country's tax laws require you to report on a cash basis, at which point you're right, cash received = cash reported. Chances are, you'll be able to at least make an election to report on an accrual basis at which point all revenue is deferred.

Here, you would be able to defer your revenue, report expenses showing a taxable loss and then later, when you're reporting your revenue and taxable income, you could carry forward your taxable loss and reduce the taxes owed on your income. Anyway, something to discuss with your tax professional over there.