Mac Walters leaves Bioware

[DemonKing]

Bioware had the leverage to delay things until they were ready, but their luck on that ran out (which is why they had to sell to EA in the first place).

Not sure about that - I thought the reason they sold out to EA is that the owners got a nice fat check allowing them to retire and make craft beer instead of working, not due to financial pressure.

Yes. What's your fucking point? The writing is still shitty.

Just wondering why you bothered played a bunch of games with such shitty writing.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

BG1&2, KoToR, Jade Empire, DA and the original ME games had generally adequate and tolerable writing (with some exceptions, of course). It's when you get to DA2 and you get cringe dialog like "I want to be a dragon." that the wheels really fell off.

No. The writing was objectively shit.

My ‘otel’s as clean as an Elven arse!

 

[Tyranicon]

One stain of diarrhoea gives way for another stain of diarrhoea. At no point in Bioware's history has it's writing ever being good. Or adequate. Or tolerable. It's always been puerile dogshit. Always. Except maybe for a brief moment in Mass Effect 1 where I'll reluctantly concede it was vaguely tolerable as generic space opera. And I resent even tolerating that. I feel conceding anything to Bioware strips part of my soul.

Perhaps it's nostalgia (although I somewhat recently replayed BG2) but I like the two Baldur Gates. Mass Effect has a special place in my heart, and while I don't remember Dragon Age: Origins well, I don't have the impression that it was poorly written.

Compared to modern RPGs, they are practically works of literature.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Reminder: Bioware was decline from the start.

 

[Camel]

Old Bioware would never have released DA2 in the shocking state it came out in, or used the Frostbite engine for DA3.

EA wanted a quick cash grab with DA2 but it’s BioWare’s fault they consented to a short development cycle of “14-16 months” compared to DA:O’s 5 years. I always liked old Blizzard’s motto of releasing the game “when it’s done”.
Forcing Frostbite on all in-house studios including Bioware was entirely EA’s fault. Bioware had to develop and include a dialogue module into Frostbite.

Spoiler

BioWare still has "huge autonomy" in what it does, co-founders Dr. Ray Muzyka and Dr. Greg Zeschuk have promised Eurogamer. To say that EA now calls the shots "is not actually remotely true".

"One thing we commonly see is when fans don't like something we do, they put in the comments, 'Oh those EA guys, they're making BioWare do...' And I always chuckle because we are EA, we're BioWare - we're both, and we still have huge autonomy in terms of what we do," Greg Zeschuk told us.

"We're not being forced to do anything or told to do anything. We make the decisions. We take input.

"It's just funny when people say that, because it's not actually remotely true."

"At the end of the day, we're responsible for the quality of the content and games we release, and we're committed to try and always take feedback really seriously from our fans and be humble about how we take it - use it to make the next games better," Ray Muzyka added.

"You're only as good as your next game, and that's the way we've always felt. That's still very much a philosophy at BioWare; quality in our products and delivering each game and exceeding expectations and always trying to delight and surprise our consumers. That's still what we try and do."

https://www.eurogamer.net/bioware-ea-doesnt-tell-us-what-to-do

 

[Maxwell's Demon]

All signs point to yes. They did all the mistakes they chose to by themselves. Did you know that the decision to release DA2 as a stand alone game instead of the expansion it was meant to be was made by Bioware themselves? It all went downhill from there.

Any studio would happily continue working on a game if the money is there. The money wasn't there. In the past, Bioware had the leverage to delay things until they were ready, but their luck on that ran out (which is why they had to sell to EA in the first place).

BioWare is not Obsidian. They weren't in financial trouble. The owners just wanted to cash out. Who knows, maybe they saw the writing on the wall for the industry early on, but it was probably just good timing.

Old Bioware would never have released DA2 in the shocking state it came out in, or used the Frostbite engine for DA3.

EA wanted a quick cash grab with DA2 but it’s BioWare’s fault they consented to a short development cycle of “14-16 months” compared to DA:O’s 5 years. I always liked old Blizzard’s motto of releasing the game “when it’s done”.
Forcing Frostbite on all in-house studios including Bioware was entirely EA’s fault. Bioware had to develop and include a dialogue module into Frostbite.

Spoiler

BioWare still has "huge autonomy" in what it does, co-founders Dr. Ray Muzyka and Dr. Greg Zeschuk have promised Eurogamer. To say that EA now calls the shots "is not actually remotely true".

"One thing we commonly see is when fans don't like something we do, they put in the comments, 'Oh those EA guys, they're making BioWare do...' And I always chuckle because we are EA, we're BioWare - we're both, and we still have huge autonomy in terms of what we do," Greg Zeschuk told us.

"We're not being forced to do anything or told to do anything. We make the decisions. We take input.

"It's just funny when people say that, because it's not actually remotely true."

"At the end of the day, we're responsible for the quality of the content and games we release, and we're committed to try and always take feedback really seriously from our fans and be humble about how we take it - use it to make the next games better," Ray Muzyka added.

"You're only as good as your next game, and that's the way we've always felt. That's still very much a philosophy at BioWare; quality in our products and delivering each game and exceeding expectations and always trying to delight and surprise our consumers. That's still what we try and do."

https://www.eurogamer.net/bioware-ea-doesnt-tell-us-what-to-do

More time is no silver bullet. Without competent leadership, "when it's done" can easily turn into Star Citizen or Starcraft: Ghost.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

hoo?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

More time is no silver bullet. Without competent leadership, "when it's done"

If anything, it seems a delayed game is more likely to be a shit game at this point.
The people making these games just don't have the skill needed to do it, they could have unlimited time and they still wouldn't produce a good product.

 

[Camel]

More time is no silver bullet. Without competent leadership, "when it's done" can easily turn into Star Citizen or Starcraft: Ghost.

DA2 and ME3 were the last BioWare games which could’ve benefited from more development time.

 

[Infinitron]

Any discussion of "why BioWare sold out" has to consider a little something called The Old Republic.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Any discussion of "why BioWare sold out" has to consider a little something called The Old Republic.

you mean bioware's money printing machine?

 

[Infinitron]

Yeah, but they were always going to need major support from a publisher to create it.

 

[Roguey]

Not sure about that - I thought the reason they sold out to EA is that the owners got a nice fat check allowing them to retire and make craft beer instead of working, not due to financial pressure.

BioWare is not Obsidian. They weren't in financial trouble. The owners just wanted to cash out. Who knows, maybe they saw the writing on the wall for the industry early on, but it was probably just good timing.

https://gamerant.com/bioware-electronic-arts-sale-322/

While speaking at HavenCon, select members of the Dragon Age 2 team painted a bleak picture for BioWare about 10 years ago.

The panel, consisting of former Mass Effect lead writer Patrick Weekes, lead editor Karin Weekes, and former Dragon Age writer David Gaider, talked about how Electronic Arts' acquisition of BioWare prevented the studio from going bankrupt. The panel admitted that Dragon Age 2 was "very rushed" because EA had just recently acquired the studio. However, the game still became critically-acclaimed, scoring high marks from critics.

The game's rushed nature was apparently a byproduct of BioWare's need to show EA a finished product. But without the acquisition, BioWare would not have lasted much longer, as the studio had "essentially run out of money."

It may be business as usual now, but back in the 00s, DA:O having a five-year development cycle was considered excessively long. Until EA came along, it was self-funded. Jade Empire and Mass Effect were also largely self-funded, which is why Bioware was able to retain IP ownership of both and not Microsoft (who published both games).

EA wanted a quick cash grab with DA2 but it’s BioWare’s fault they consented to a short development cycle of “14-16 months” compared to DA:O’s 5 years. I always liked old Blizzard’s motto of releasing the game “when it’s done”.

They had no choice. TOR slipped from its intended release date and they needed something in that quarter to fulfill their agreed-upon quota. In the years that TOR's been out, they haven't had to worry about the quarterly quotas so much anymore (perhaps unfortunately for them).

 

[HammyTheFat]

At this point who cares. It's a dead company, Jim.

I paid $5 for inquisition and all the DLC, and I feel like I got ripped off. Didn't even make it out of the starting area. I haven't seen an rpg with such blatant mmo style meaningless fetch quests since Kingdoms of Amalur, and at least they had the legitimate excuse of "we were actually making a mmo before we ran out of money."

 

[muds_animal_friend]

One stain of diarrhoea gives way for another stain of diarrhoea. At no point in Bioware's history has it's writing ever being good. Or adequate. Or tolerable. It's always been puerile dogshit. Always. Except maybe for a brief moment in Mass Effect 1 where I'll reluctantly concede it was vaguely tolerable as generic space opera. And I resent even tolerating that. I feel conceding anything to Bioware strips part of my soul.

Perhaps it's nostalgia (although I somewhat recently replayed BG2) but I like the two Baldur Gates. Mass Effect has a special place in my heart, and while I don't remember Dragon Age: Origins well, I don't have the impression that it was poorly written.

Compared to modern RPGs, they are practically works of literature.

Yes, but a solid turd in comparison to a runny turd is still a turd. The first Mass Effect game is a rare instance where I will defend Bioware. The writing there was to the point and generally true to the tropes of space opera. The subsequent Mass Effect games were the usual self-indulgent Bioware horseshit.

 

[Rhobar121]

Frostbite is shit that no one but Dice can handle. It's the same situation as with CryEngine.
For some reason, someone decided that the engine created from scratch for FPS is perfect for making an RPG.

Of course, nothing explains MMO side quests, it's 100% Bioware's fault.
The game was very lucky that it came out before Witcher3, otherwise it would have ended much worse.

At least since the success of fallen order, EA has stopped pushing multiplayer in every game, so there is hope that the game will be at least good (6.5-7/10).

By the way, it's a bit ironic how a few years ago EA said that SP games are dead and here they suddenly release two typical SP games in a fairly short time.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

DAI came before TW3, so it got the GOTY award in 2014. However when they gave it to them, the collective reaction from the world was more of a groan than anything else.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

DAI came before TW3, so it got the GOTY award in 2014. However when they gave it to them, the collective reaction from the world was more of a groan than anything else.

DAI is better than TW3's base game

 

[Rhobar121]

DAI came before TW3, so it got the GOTY award in 2014. However when they gave it to them, the collective reaction from the world was more of a groan than anything else.

DAI is better than TW3's base game

If you like quests from bad MMO, then probably yes.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

DAI came before TW3, so it got the GOTY award in 2014. However when they gave it to them, the collective reaction from the world was more of a groan than anything else.

DAI is better than TW3's base game

If you like quests like from bad MMO, then probably yes.

Which game are you talking about?

 

[Rhobar121]

DAI came before TW3, so it got the GOTY award in 2014. However when they gave it to them, the collective reaction from the world was more of a groan than anything else.

DAI is better than TW3's base game

If you like quests like from bad MMO, then probably yes.

Which game are you talking about?

Bad trolling.

 

[Robotigan]

Casey Hudson and him are responsible for the ME3 endings mess.

Now I haven't played the Mass Effect trilogy but the impression I got was that the series was dramatically pivoting the story from game to game and making up stuff as it went along, kind of like tv show that gets renewed on a per-season basis. So I'm a little bewildered that there's so much vitriol surrounding its ending as if the plot was going anywhere to begin with.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Casey Hudson and him are responsible for the ME3 endings mess.

Now I haven't played the Mass Effect trilogy but the impression I got was that the series was dramatically pivoting the story from game to game and making up stuff as it went along, kind of like tv show that gets renewed on a per-season basis. So I'm a little bewildered that there's so much vitriol surrounding its ending as if the plot was going anywhere to begin with.

ME3 ending sucks but very few people would have done better after the corner ME2 boxed the series into.
Can't believe that's the game that gets loved the most when it's the one that irrevocably fucked the series.

 

[Tyrr]

Casey Hudson and him are responsible for the ME3 endings mess.

Now I haven't played the Mass Effect trilogy but the impression I got was that the series was dramatically pivoting the story from game to game and making up stuff as it went along, kind of like tv show that gets renewed on a per-season basis. So I'm a little bewildered that there's so much vitriol surrounding its ending as if the plot was going anywhere to begin with.

The lead writer had a plan, but...

 

[Tyranicon]

One stain of diarrhoea gives way for another stain of diarrhoea. At no point in Bioware's history has it's writing ever being good. Or adequate. Or tolerable. It's always been puerile dogshit. Always. Except maybe for a brief moment in Mass Effect 1 where I'll reluctantly concede it was vaguely tolerable as generic space opera. And I resent even tolerating that. I feel conceding anything to Bioware strips part of my soul.

Perhaps it's nostalgia (although I somewhat recently replayed BG2) but I like the two Baldur Gates. Mass Effect has a special place in my heart, and while I don't remember Dragon Age: Origins well, I don't have the impression that it was poorly written.

Compared to modern RPGs, they are practically works of literature.

Yes, but a solid turd in comparison to a runny turd is still a turd. The first Mass Effect game is a rare instance where I will defend Bioware. The writing there was to the point and generally true to the tropes of space opera. The subsequent Mass Effect games were the usual self-indulgent Bioware horseshit.

The problem with video games is they are designed to have as broad an audience as possible and that includes kids. Bioware's niche has never been strong writing, but "good enough" pulpy stuff, in relatively mainstream fantasy/scifi settings. Stuff that can be reasonably enjoyed by both children and adults.

Unfortunately, like most other gamedevs, BioWare has failed to maintain even this low standard of quality.