KickStarter Lords of Xulima

[V_K]

I have a hard time considering Grimrock games blobbers.

What do you consider them then?

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Square dancing with puzzles.

 

[anvi]

Hahah

 

[cvv]

For me it's 1. MMX, 2. LoG2, 3. Xulima.

I have a hard time considering Grimrock games blobbers.

What about Swords And Sorcery: Underworld - Definitive Edition.

Square dancing with puzzles.

Blobbers don't have to be turn-based, that's not the reason they're called blobbers.

I've tried the SaS demo but I was extremelly put off by the sounds, music and some of the art design. Just couldn't stomach it. I'll prolly give it another try when I'm ill and bored again.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Blobbers don't have to be turn-based, that's not the reason they're called blobbers.

I guess I disagree.

'RT blobbers' [sic] are tactically rudimentary and the combat is very shallow because the player has to be able to perform every available action by clicking on one of two buttons per character, while square dancing. Parties are typically limited to 4 or less because the concept of making meaningful actions for 6-8 party members while dancing around is absurd. The RT design choice is a governing and defining one.

Compared to a Wizardry for example, they are puzzle games with square dancing. Is the party in a blob? Yes I suppose it is but lumping them into the same category with RT or TB as the sole differentiator in what are essentially two similar types of games is a misconception.

 

[anvi]

You guys who like blobbers and LoX should check out this game:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/edgebeestudios/sorcery-quest

Yeah it is a Flash game but it is very similar, it has a lot of depth, it is really good. Just don't be tempted to waste a lot of money on it like I did Play it for free. I am playing LoX now, it is pretty good. Too early to judge compared to MMX. (I really liked MMX).

 

[cvv]

Blobbers don't have to be turn-based, that's not the reason they're called blobbers.

I guess I disagree.

'RT blobbers' [sic] are tactically rudimentary and the combat is very shallow because the player has to be able to perform every available action by clicking on one of two buttons per character, while square dancing. Parties are typically limited to 4 or less because the concept of making meaningful actions for 6-8 party members while dancing around is absurd. The RT design choice is a governing and defining one..

You're basically saying TB blobbers are better than RT blobbers. Well, of course they are. RT blobbers are legitimate tho, always have been. M&Ms, Ultimas, Dungeon Masters, Eye of Beholders or Lands of Lore 1 is absolutely a hall of fame material. I'd put both Grimrocks in there too.

Btw I'd take an RT blobber over shit like BG, ID or PoE anytime.

 

[Lord Azlan]

For me it's 1. MMX, 2. LoG2, 3. Xulima.

For me

Xulima is great and the other two are not.

MMX and LoG2, good but not great.

Either way, fantastic trio for blob lovers. May it continue!

 

[Grunker]

"I don't like the Ford Pinto so it's not a car" is one of the stranger arguments I've read recently

 

[Haplo]

Personally, I enjoyed Xulima way more than MMX. MMX to me is the definition of "solid but uninspired", while LoX is more of a flawed gem.

It's exactly the opposite for me.
MMX a flawed gem offering rich tactical depth, great class and weapon category balance and very interesting skillsets and spells and good exploration, even if the gameplay becomes too easy, possibly even tedious towards the end and the reused assets aren't exactly impressive.

Meanwhile LoX an impressive fruit of titanic labor with very nice graphics, tight systems, world design, enemy design, placement and limits. Balanced as a whole into perfection - and blandness.
Uninspired classes, skillsets and spells. You're never allowed to feel more powerful then the enemies you are currently facing and a lot of the fun has been sucked away from this game. Could very well be the perfect child of a certain JS. Also a far too long slog overall.

 

[V_K]

For me the distinction is that LoX tries to innovate in a few areas, both in terms of mechanics and level design, while MMX relies on tried-but-true tropes of previous games in the series, even streamlining a few of them.

You're never allowed to feel more powerful then the enemies you are currently facing

You can, however, with a bit of preparation and careful tactics take on enemies that are significantly more powerful than you. Isn't it more satisfying?

 

[anvi]

I preferred LOG to LOG2. The second one had some improvements but worse puzzles and too much 'exploration' which isn't fun. First one seemed more focused. Also Lady why did you vote Sorcery Quest meh?

 

[cvv]

For me the distinction is that LoX tries to innovate in a few areas, both in terms of mechanics and level design, while MMX relies on tried-but-true tropes of previous games in the series, even streamlining a few of them.

True, and innovation is always a plus, unfortunately LoX just isn't very good when it comes to crucial RPG systems like itemization and chardev. MMX isn't stellar at those either, Limbic had 20 years history of the IP at their disposal and they had ignored much of it, but still much better than LoX. Let's hope for the sequel Numantian are gonna take players' feedback to heart. If so LoX2 could be the best blobber since Wizardry 7.

 

[Haplo]

I slightly disagee that MMX doesn't have a good chardev.
I mean its not a top system and it's easy to make broken characters towards end game... but its way above average, IMO. I'd say that probably at least 80% of cRPGs have far worse systems.

 

[cvv]

I slightly disagee that MMX doesn't have a good chardev.
I mean its not a top system and it's easy to make broken characters towards end game... but its way above average, IMO. I'd say that probably at least 80% of cRPGs have far worse systems.

I said it's good, not stellar. In general M&M games have one of the best chardev systems, if not the best. Definitely the most fun, especially MM7 what with the mid-game conversion to Dark/Light.

That's why MMX is a bit disappointing. For instance the skill tiers on level ups are incredibly dull and dry for most skills (Expert in Fire Magic skill ignores 5 enemy resistance, Master another 5 poinst and Grandmaster the same - someone obviously put a LOT of thought and creativity into that). Also no interesting mid-game decisions or any other fun features. Despite that it's still a M&M chardev and it's still good.

 

[Lord Azlan]

For me the distinction is that LoX tries to innovate in a few areas, both in terms of mechanics and level design, while MMX relies on tried-but-true tropes of previous games in the series, even streamlining a few of them.

True, and innovation is always a plus, unfortunately LoX just isn't very good when it comes to crucial RPG systems like itemization and chardev. MMX isn't stellar at those either, Limbic had 20 years history of the IP at their disposal and they had ignored much of it, but still much better than LoX. Let's hope for the sequel Numantian are gonna take players' feedback to heart. If so LoX2 could be the best blobber since Wizardry 7.

Recently as I was compiling my top 10 desert island games I was thinking about BT1 and about those basic maze games you used to see right at the very beginning of the computer era.

Is it 30 years on? Has blob gaming moved on? Despite what I think about BT1 (I love it) and Legend of Grimrock 2 and M&M X - have we moved on? Those games do lack something, some sort of interaction element. Meeting characters. Better story lines. Some C&C element.

LoX reminds me a lot of the original Wasteland and its combination of Ultima style exploration and turn based BT1 like combat.

What it did even better though, is go another level. It's truly innovation. Remember the puzzle where you had to explore the dungeon, looks at the overhead plan map that spelled letters and use the candles to get the letters in the right order?

What about that forest where you had to pay attention to the clues on screen, those little flowers that made you sleep.

Which is why LoX is superior and for some reason although I really liked M&M X, I keep looking to play World of Xeen again.

 

[anvi]

Can't really expect them to move on because they have been mostly abandoned since the 90s. Only a few cheap indie efforts make it through. I loved MMX but it doesn't even have real time travelling that earlier games in the series had 20 years ago. I preferred the combat but some stuff was far behind the older games, world size etc. I had some fun with Legend of Grimrock but besides graphics, it is completely inferior to stuff from the 90s like Lands of Lore, Eye of the Beholder 2/3, etc. I am glad a few game still exist but that's all they are really doing, existing. If they didn't die out so hard, they would be awesome by now. If stuff like Lands of Lore managed to catch on better in that important time in the late 90s early 00s, games like that would be getting the Skyrim budgets now, with CryEngine and voice actors and huge open worlds. But instead of 1 dumb character hack n slashing his way through hordes of 1hp skeletons, it would be tactical combat. Gaming would be awesome if it didn't turn to shit in the dudebox era.

You guys should try to get a game called Minions of Mirth. It is maybe the ultimate 'blobber'. It was an indie MMORPG made by 3 people that you could play in single player, and now that it is dead and old, that is the only option. You can multiclass characters twice, and you can run a party of upto 6, so you could play as a single character and class, or you could play a party with basically 18 classes in it although it would take forever to level all that up. And they all exist within your one main avatar. But most people would play with 2 or 3 and maybe multiclass once. Storyfags wouldn't like it but if you like real time party combat and character building, it is hard to beat, great itemisation too.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

"I don't like the Ford Pinto so it's not a car" is one of the stranger arguments I've read recently

Gafaw! OK let's have some fun. Not all pintos are equal.

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[cvv]

Lol. But no.

 

[Lady_Error]

You guys should try to get a game called Minions of Mirth. It is maybe the ultimate 'blobber'.

That doesn't look too promising. Is the combar TB?

Also Lady why did you vote Sorcery Quest meh?

Because

 

[Emmanuel2]

Was looking for more blobbers to try out and stumbled on to this thread. Thank god I did since I'm having a blast so far.

I'm doing a hardcore ironman for my first playthrough and so far so good. The ogre was definitely a very welcome spike in difficulty but managed to down it at level 8 (I think I'm overlevelled?), black widows are fucking annoying, bleed is great, and I'm not regretting not using a mage so far.

 

[CryptRat]

I could actually play this if it was a normal game and not a stupid browser free-to-play.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Legend of Grimrock did the best job at achieving what it set out and was advertised to do among all the well known indie crpgs since KotC. Whether you see the goal it had as more or less ambitious then other attempts or (dis)like this particular subgenre are different points.

I slightly disagee that MMX doesn't have a good chardev.
I mean its not a top system and it's easy to make broken characters towards end game... but its way above average, IMO. I'd say that probably at least 80% of cRPGs have far worse systems.

Lol, pretty much every legit crpg that gives more archetypes than melee dmg dealer and spellcaster has better chardev than MMX, because bottom line is that's all MMX has.

 

[Haplo]

IMO all classes in MMX have nice, unique skills and are very well balanced in the masteries each class has access to. I was really torn while building a party.
Pick a Barbarian or a Mercenary? A Scout, Hunter, Ranger or maybe a Bladedancer? Only class that was notably sub-par was the Defender. All other classes have strong advantages going for them.

Sure, you could add Summoners, Bards, what have you, but is it really necessary? If the core classes are solid and there are nice skills/spells to develop, that's good enough for me. Heck, even a classless system can be fun, if it has an interesting skill tree.

 

[Lady_Error]

Legend of Grimrock did the best job at achieving what it set out and was advertised to do among all the well known indie crpgs since KotC. Whether you see the goal it had as more or less ambitious then other attempts or (dis)like this particular subgenre are different points.

Legend of Grimrock combat is shitty and it's a game that has only combat and puzzles, so I wouldn't say that it did the best job at achieving what it set out to do. There have been many examples of better combat even in RT blobbers.

Lol, pretty much every legit crpg that gives more archetypes than melee dmg dealer and spellcaster has better chardev than MMX, because bottom line is that's all MMX has.

The bottom line is that most RPG's have only these two archetypes when it comes down to it. Even a Bard is a somewhat different spellcaster.