Let's Play VtM: Night Empire

[Kz3r0]

@ laclongquan

+ Anthony can check on existing Mandrake leads from that central position, if Mandrake has anything to do with Kine politicians.

Tell to our minions to investigate the editorial staff of the journal, usually guys as Mandrake are pseudonyms used by someone receiving orders and tips from the powers that be, asking around to politicos will only make us look like fools.

+ As the scruffy Kindred want to meet the next night there, we can meet him and therefore no need to call Antonina to check on him. It's implied Antonina work for us at our Whitehall office but stay at our old resident house, not Wittanhurst.

You want to spare a phone call for...?

+ Reinforce our core power base, which is Whitehall politicians. Visit it semi-regularly IS a good idea.

While making lose face to one of our best assets, u jelly?

+ As long as we hold Whitehall securely in our grasp, we have a refuge there. No Kindred dare attack there straight on for fear of breaking the Masquerade, other than Sabbat. And dont forget, funding for the ghoul hitsquad come from Kine government.

More reasons to not piss off the guy that provided us with the squad in the first place.

Mind you, it's nice if he's Vogler or somebody's ear. My gut say he's an emissary of the South. But either way he just be gravy.

An unqualified vampire drop by and you consider him a boon?

 

[Esquilax]

I can't believe this shit; we're actually arguing about whether it's Vogler or not? It's clearly the man himself - the physical description fits him and he has obviously been trying to contact us, so it is almost certainly him. We could go in circles with people on the other side arguing "lol but what if it's not him?!" when the evidence we have indicates that it's Vogler in all probability. The arguments against B basically amount to "is grotsnik fucking with us?", and folks, I think that isn't enough to turn away from B.

Also, don't judge a book by it's cover, especially when it comes to Kindred. I seem to remember another scruffy-looking hobo who managed to be capable of a lot of cunning and clever scheming as well:

Don't let stupid bullshit like the (very marginal) chance that it isn't Vogler sway you from B. The bottom line is this: we need Kindred who've got our backs because what little support we did manage to obtain in the last act is now fucking GONE. Nothing. SCO's misguided (and IMO, terrible) idea to have Nosferatu roomies is a definite reminder of how bad the situation is. We are so desperate for strong allies that we're actually stooping so low as to consider letting some Sewer Rats sublet our castle. Jesus fucking Christ.

Kindred support is essential for us right now - our political connections got us to the top, but it's only strong support from our fellow vampires that will keep us there. There is so much to be gained from B (a valuable Kindred ally, something which we are in desperate need of) and so little to be gained from A. Sure, having connections to the world of banking would be great, but we already have William Horn in our pocket already, and he's part of the Treasury. Is it really that essential to get our claws deeper in financial institutions when our support base among Kindred is so weak? Until we start making friends, our lack of allies will be a serious Achilles' heel that our enemies will no doubt be ready to exploit when given the chance.

This is just like the beginning of the last thread; then, just as now, we were offered a choice to either expand our Kine contacts or to show solidarity with our fellow Kindred. We all chose the Kine and it ended up affecting the course of all our subsequent choices - it put as at odds with Kirkbeck, set us on a collision course with du Marchais, and eventually resulted in us ending up in the company of Eames and Turcov. In the end, I don't think it worked out as well as it could have for us; sure, we did Humphrey a nice favor, but we also ended up in a near-civil war because we ended up backing the wrong horse in Eames. It all turned our all right in the end, but I really do believe that our very first choice in Act I ended up colouring the way we saw who our friends and enemies were, and I think that this is no different.

tl;dr: Look, I can't prove with 100% certainty that the "scruffy Kindred is Vogler, but it very likely is. But I think we can all agree here is that we desperately need allies and contacts among Kindred ASAP, because right now, we have nothing.

 

[Kz3r0]

Such naivety, Du Marchais got Whitehall because he was the Prince's best friend, and they shared a secret too, being the Prince faithful lackey would have done us no good all the same, and we ended up as Barons by going our own way, besides, isn't possible that the scruffy looking vampire is the guy of the first update working for the hunters?

 

[Esquilax]

Such naivety, Du Marchais got Whitehall because he was the Prince's best friend, and they shared a secret too, being the Prince faithful lackey would have done us no good all the same, and we ended up as Barons by going our own way, besides, isn't possible that the scruffy looking vampire is the guy of the first update working for the hunters?

Now who's being naive (not to mention hilariously paranoid)? Yeah, du Marchais and Kirkbeck were BFF's, but they would have been much more likely to confide in us and ally with us had we decided to attend the Prince's summons. We would at least have known more about Rannigan at that point.

I was just using du Marchais to demonstrate that our adversarial relationship towards Kirkbeck was probably in significant part influenced by the fact that we insulted him initially by coming late to his summons, and that it led to significant consequences in terms of who we ended up allying with later. But that's neither here nor there; what really matters here is that we need Kindred on our side and we need it soon.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

@ laclongquan

+ As long as we hold Whitehall securely in our grasp, we have a refuge there. No Kindred dare attack there straight on for fear of breaking the Masquerade, other than Sabbat. And dont forget, funding for the ghoul hitsquad come from Kine government.

More reasons to not piss off the guy that provided us with the squad in the first place.

This.

1. A - Our kine connections are our main strength right now. This choice offers us the opportunity to expand them. Why turn it into a chance to lose one of our MVPs when the only thing we stand to gain is a mystery kindred who doesn't have either the good sense or connections to ask for our phone number or our actual place of residence?

2. B - Since we already spent the the last choice on looking around for an advantage we might as well be sure we gain one.

(P) Antonia and instruct her on receiving this kindred, finding out what he wants, and scheduling an appointment for us to meet him. Also, have her ask around about Mandrake.

Edit: If I might expound a bit - I'm all for beefing up our kindred connections, however this scruffy kindred is a complete unknown. We don't even know his name for sure and even if he is the gangrel we still don't know his strengths. The entire choice we just made depended purely on chance. The chance we would search the area and find an advantage. It's a lottery mentality that lead us to it and all gamblers eventually lose. This mystery kindred is the same sort of choice. There's a chance he could be a useful connection. There's a chance he could be an enemy who wastes our time. Why not take a choice we know will most likely result in an advantage - ie, A?

 

[Kz3r0]

1. A - Our kine connections are our main strength right now. This choice offers us the opportunity to expand them. Why turn it into a chance to lose one of our MVPs when the only thing we stand to gain is a mystery kindred who doesn't have either the good sense or connections to ask for our phone number or our actual place of residence?

2. B - Since we already spent the the last choice on looking around for an advantage we might as well be sure we gain one.

(P) Antonia and instruct her on receiving this kindred, finding out what he wants, and scheduling an appointment for us to meet him. Also, have her ask around about Mandrake.

I quote this because is a nice exposition of my own choices.

I will also add that too many people make assumptions not based on what we know from the game and too many people trust an arpy.

 

[Computer Gamer Refugee]

Esquilax makes many good points and I agree with the substance of then......

but it is a matter opportunity costs. In either case we risk pissing off the person we don't visit. However, the Kine event is a one off event; it may be weeks or months (or never depending on how badly we face our contact) before a similar one comes along. On the other hand, the kindred shows up out of the blue, leaves a cryptic instruction and may or may not be willing to set up a seperate meeting or meet later that night. Probably it will piss of the kindred that we are not free to live like the wind and go wherever we will, but while we have a pretty good clue who it is, we offically know nothing about our scruffy visitor so we have an immediate out in the event it is Vogel. "oh I am sorry sir, if I knew you were coming I would have had the good china out". Hell, even give our ghoul instructions to call us if it him so we can leave the kine event and go meet with due haste. That option will irk the kine, but less than a no-show, and it keeps our bases covered.

P.S. I don't think anyone is wrong, but I am immensly enjoying this discussion; so I keep talking

 

[Онега]

ab Lambchop19​

ab Kz3r0​

ac Erebus​

ac Computer Gamer Refugee​

ac Excidium​

ba Storyfag​

ba Sergiu64​

ba Esquilax​

bb lac​

bc sco​

bc SerratedBiz​

bc ironyuri​

bc Gondolin​

bc CappenVarra​

ca Onega​

xy Smashing Axe​

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Hmm. Thought the vote was a bit closer than that. Counting is teh hard.

If we end up with B as our 1st choice, then (P) Trentbridge and smooth things over and see if we can meet the board privately at a later date.

 

[Erebus]

P.S. I don't think anyone is wrong, but I am immensly enjoying this discussion; so I keep talking

While the debates are part of the reason why this LP is enjoyable, I think it'd be best if we limited ourselves to 3 pages of arguing at most between two updates.

 

[Esquilax]

1. A - Our kine connections are our main strength right now. This choice offers us the opportunity to expand them. Why turn it into a chance to lose one of our MVPs when the only thing we stand to gain is a mystery kindred who doesn't have either the good sense or connections to ask for our phone number or our actual place of residence?

2. B - Since we already spent the the last choice on looking around for an advantage we might as well be sure we gain one.

(P) Antonia and instruct her on receiving this kindred, finding out what he wants, and scheduling an appointment for us to meet him. Also, have her ask around about Mandrake.

Edit: If I might expound a bit - I'm all for beefing up our kindred connections, however this scruffy kindred is a complete unknown. We don't even know his name for sure and even if he is the gangrel we still don't know his strengths. The entire choice we just made depended purely on chance. The chance we would search the area and find an advantage. It's a lottery mentality that lead us to it and all gamblers eventually lose. This mystery kindred is the same sort of choice. There's a chance he could be a useful connection. There's a chance he could be an enemy who wastes our time. Why not take a choice we know will most likely result in an advantage - ie, A?

Mr. Trentbridge is one of our MVP's that's for sure, problem is that he's not an MVP in the same sport we're in. Kindred politics and alliances are what we are severely deficient at, and it's a game that I don't think Trentbridge can help us at. Yes, he is a very important person to keep happy, but he really can't help us with things that are more immediate to us (i.e. showing the incoming Venetian Camarilla bigwig that we are competent, making our temporary tenure as Baron of Whitehall a permanent stay, working our way into a position as Seneschal).

Look, this Vogler guy is certainly an unkown quantity, I'll give you that (all your points were great, actually), but our network is fucked. Our allies are either dead (Donnie Jamieson) or alienated from us (Bob Griddle, Turcov to a certain extent), so we've got nobody. Even if Vogler's a chump who is full of shit about what he has to offer to us - Costello described him as a "very good self-promoter" - we do at least know that he has the ear of somebody who might be more valuable. So even if we find that he's not the MVP that we want, there is a high likelihood he could lead us to that person.

The whole Kindred politics game is like being in prison - unless you are a huge, dangerous nigger or you have a gang/allies to rally around, you are going to get raped. Since Anthony is far from the vampire equivalent of a huge, dangerous nigger, we better make some friends soon. No, I don't like missing Humphrey's event either, but we've already got three Kine MVP's* in the form of Trentbridge, William Horn, and our ghoul squad, but nothing on the Kindred end, except for perhaps Eddie.

* I think I'll start using this term more. It's a great description.

While the debates are part of the reason why this LP is enjoyable, I think it'd be best if we limited ourselves to 3 pages of arguing at most between two updates.

Madness. DISCUSS!!! must flow freely.

 

[Kz3r0]

ab Lambchop19​

ab Kz3r0​

ac Erebus​

ac Computer Gamer Refugee​

ac Excidium​

ba Storyfag​

ba Sergiu64​

ba Esquilax​

bb lac​

bc sco​

bc SerratedBiz​

bc ironyuri​

bc Gondolin​

bc CappenVarra​

ca Onega​

xy Smashing Axe​

Well, encountering the hobo, oops, baron, has won.
So has the doing nothing about the Mithraeum.
I think that now we should agree on who we want to call, I think that almost all here would agree in calling our estimated Mr. Trentbridge telling him that the undue attentions of Mandrake persuaded us to not showing around for the time being out of consideration for our associates.

 

[Storyfag]

I think that almost all here would agree in calling our estimated Mr. Trentbridge telling him that the undue attentions of Mandrake persuaded us to not showing around for the time being out of consideration for our associates.

Definitely!

 

[SCO]

P.S. I don't think anyone is wrong, but I am immensly enjoying this discussion; so I keep talking

While the debates are part of the reason why this LP is enjoyable, I think it'd be best if we limited ourselves to 3 pages of arguing at most between two updates.

Grotsnik can always end it when he figures it should. Or institute a policy of "max 2 days of DISCUSS and then i cut in and count votes".

Since my nossie trade idea won't fly (you'll regreeeeeet it), then call the ex-primebot sure).

Edit:

... making our temporary tenure as Baron of Whitehall a permanent stay, working our way into a position as Seneschal).

FFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUU


I'd glossed over that, selling the mitradarium to the nosies would be a life ending mistake then, like loaning on a collateral of the Ventrue clan proper. Forget it.

 

[Esquilax]

I think that almost all here would agree in calling our estimated Mr. Trentbridge telling him that the undue attentions of Mandrake persuaded us to not showing around for the time being out of consideration for our associates.

Definitely!

Amen.

 

[SerratedBiz]

I think that almost all here would agree in calling our estimated Mr. Trentbridge telling him that the undue attentions of Mandrake persuaded us to not showing around for the time being out of consideration for our associates.

Definitely!

 

[grotsnik]

Setting a two-day limit, especially because, like CGR said, the in-depth discussion/bickering adds a fuckload of value and character and it'd be a shame to curtail it unnecessarily. It's only ever become an issue before when the people who aren't quite as involved end up kind of lost because there's been about four separate fool-proof plans going back and forth. So, yeah...just use your judgement, I guess.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Look, this Vogler guy is certainly an unkown quantity, I'll give you that (all your points were great, actually), but our network is fucked. Our allies are either dead (Donnie Jamieson) or alienated from us (Bob Griddle, Turcov to a certain extent), so we've got nobody. Even if Vogler's a chump who is full of shit about what he has to offer to us - Costello described him as a "very good self-promoter" - we do at least know that he has the ear of somebody who might be more valuable. So even if we find that he's not the MVP that we want, there is a high likelihood he could lead us to that person.

The whole Kindred politics game is like being in prison - unless you are a huge, dangerous nigger or you have a gang/allies to rally around, you are going to get raped. Since Anthony is far from the vampire equivalent of a huge, dangerous nigger, we better make some friends soon.

Good point. It was a tough decision for me honestly. B has a chance of being a decent option, but I dislike the idea of gambling our choices away. :shrug:

edit: MVP - Most Valuable Player Pawn

 

[Excidium]

I think that almost all here would agree in calling our estimated Mr. Trentbridge telling him that the undue attentions of Mandrake persuaded us to not showing around for the time being out of consideration for our associates.

Definitely!

I guess that's all we can do.

 

[laclongquan]

Cheap bastards! Lost one opportunity into exploring your base but refuse to use that to reinforce...

This is why you cant have the good things.

 

[Esquilax]

Good point. It was a tough decision for me honestly. B has a chance of being a decent option, but I dislike the idea of gambling our choices away. :shrug:

edit: MVP - Most Valuable Player Pawn

It's definitely a tough decision because I see that A is a reasonable option as well. The crux of the situation is that we have option A, which will provide us with a certain benefit in an area we are already strong in (Kine relations/connections), while B will provide us with an uncertain benefit in an area that we are very weak in (Kindred relations).

A combination of choices that I am shocked that nobody brought up is AA. We know that the mithraeum is a white elephant, but if we had a bunch of filthy-rich bankers backing us up, we could maintain such an expense. Furthermore, it would allow us to host swanky Camarilla parties while also advancing our forays into Kine business and politics. Very surprised nobody mentioned this. In fact, I am even considering flopping to it at this point.



EDIT: That being said, such a classless display of wealth might very well end up pissing more people off than it would endear. Especially if we have no friends to begin with.

 

[SerratedBiz]

EDIT: That being said, such a classless display of wealth might very well end up pissing more people off than it would endear. Especially since that's precisely what happened the last time it was used.

Also imagine the horror. -The horror-. Of inviting everyone to your party and having no kindred attend.

Cripps would be beside you snorting phlegm like there was no tomorrow. And you can just count on the Nos to spread that info everywhere.

 

[laclongquan]

AA is possible because bankers support white elephant. HOWEVER, go to charity ball is to show yourself on the spotlight after the Mandrake probe the day before. I think it's guaranteed that we will be on front page should we decide to do the ball.

IF Anthony is Toreador and has prior record of showing himself, it would be reasonable. BUT, do notice his low profile in Kine politic world. He called Humphrey, not met him, even while in his office in Whitehall. He proposed the ambush plan, not agreeing to the publicity stunt of Samantha. Choosing AA is Out Of Character for Anthony. Which is why people didnt seriously consider it.

 

[Gondolin]

Ah, but we could invite the fucking bankers to see the mithraeum. That would probably displease the barons, but would surely amaze the bankers. Let the fuckers know where the money goes. Girls, booze and drugs on the house.

 

[laclongquan]

A troll option eh? How monocle of you.