Let's Play VtM: Night Empire

[Gondolin]

Nothing concrete here, but it is odd. One might almost suspect that he knew something was going down tonight...

One does suspect that. Always.

 

[Storyfag]

Nothing concrete here, but it is odd. One might almost suspect that he knew something was going down tonight...

One does suspect that. Always.

I'm hesitant to suspect that, TBH. If we were dealing with a Lasombra Archbishop, then we could expect any move from himr. Connaught, though... he's Tzimisce. Filled with overbearing hatred to anyone who slighted him or his Clan. And the Tremere slighted the Tzimisce heavily back in the Dark Ages. If there's one Clan he would NOT cooperate with, it's them.

 

[Gondolin]

It's not cooperation that I'm suspecting; more like undisclosed advance knowledge. Though I don't see how the Tremere could take London back in case of a Sabbat victory. Nevertheless...

 

[Excidium]

Awesome update, shit just got real.

B)

 

[Cassidy]

Crazy Ventrue Schemes (tm)

Fuck Lacroix Let London burn first then emerge as the savior with an ashen trail of shovelheads behind you for maximum credits while all or most of your rivals are equally reduced to ashes.

Remember most of these cammy scums consider Sommers expendable at best and wouldn't blink an eye on letting him die to get away.

A

Phone:

Edgar because you'll need him by your side in these nights, if he isn't close by already. If he is close by then call Antonia for info
Cripps because you need any info you can on the extent of the threat.
Costello as the second(or third) source of info on the Sabbat renewed threat.

Also, considering the reality of Londonistan, I'm surprised there were no conflicts with Assamites yet.

 

[Absalom]

Not to mention the massive masquerade violation of Sabbat burning everything. One of our strengths is our Kine contacts. They might not want to be associated with us if we cannot keep the peace.

 

[SCO]

I think we should stay in for the phone calls for this night.

Think about it, moving to B) will still requires us later to find out targets by recon with Crips, at least another night.
This is a situation for delegation, send out Fellowes to prepare the team for combat and to be contacted by phone when appropriate.

The prince palace is likely sieged, presumably it's security is adequate.
Turcov either survived or didn't by the time we get there.

P) Crips, have him scout out the Baron's gathering.
P) the politician dude, have him sit tight (during the day) on the likely points of attack of the sabbat.
Sent out fellowes to await orders on by the team.
...(Crips eventually phones back)
P) Fellowes with a 'go get them' wherever 'them' are, joining up with Crips.

Although that is dangerous if we have to move after (as we will) because we will be alone (but maybe travelling with the water mage freak? Presumably they'll travel with us, but then separate on London to meet up with their candidate)

This doesn't do much for our 'candidate' but it does a hell of a lot to us. And he still can break the siege on the palace with Iocomo. That's symbolic right?

We of course, need to punish the sabbat leadership. Need moar info. If the barons are all dead, or dying have Crips scout back to the origin of the attack. If they can be saved, save them and them *right after* forcefully suggest some gathering of 'human' resources for a immediate counterattack.

 

[SCO]

Change the barons for Turcov if you care more about his resources than the snob pack up the other place, i don't really care about that.

 

[Absalom]

*snip*

Yeah I'm about to flip flop on this; though it was my original intention. This is obviously where we use the ghoul squad but we need to know where to use it.

 

[SCO]

BTW, the team will be very useful during the day, where the probable protection of the sabbat is a bunch of degenerate feral ghouls. A trained intel'ed team with mass fire concentration and maybe explosives could probably go through that like a knife in butter (vozhd are probably too vampiric to be on by day). Fellowes would be useless then of course.

 

[Gondolin]

Well, the question is: do we go into London with our team or not? If not, then we don't need to leave Oxford and we can make the three calls.

grobro, if Fellows calls us back from the base, does that count as one of the three calls?

 

[grotsnik]

...well, the phone-call mechanic is already stretching plausibility as it is, but nah, I suppose it shouldn't count as one of them.

 

[Esquilax]

SCO: If Cripps recons a spot for us tonight, we're set. I don't want any of our guys getting involved in any combat whatsoever tonight because Cripps is our only man on the ground and we need him to scout, while Eddie needs to give our ghouls a briefing before they (hopefully) go in for an assault tomorrow. Our government contact, Horn, also seems blind to the Sabbat/Camarilla stuff, so I don't think he can help us find where they're at.

I dunno, it just seems so weak and indecisive to sit at home making phone calls all night - there just seem to be a lot better things that we can do with our time. Sabbat burning down London, the Camarilla Ventrue are getting knocked off all at once, yet we sit home to browse the Codex make some calls? Connaught issued an ultimatum to terrorize as many Cammie/Anarch vampires into leaving London as possible in the next 48 hours, so the longer we delay the weaker our side gets. We need to strike back as quickly as possible to show people that the Sabbat can be defeated and that the Camarilla aren't going anywhere.

I'd much rather see if Turcov is still kicking, then take him to our base in Sussex. As much as I hate the guy, he has a ton of great resources on-hand and is the closest thing that London has to a Prince. He seems more likely to have the information that we need than anyone else does at the moment, and collaborating with him seems like it would work really well. I want to remind everyone who was in the last thread that we had the option of rescuing the deceased Prince Kirkbeck before he was raped by Hob/werewolves. Well, we didn't like him very much either and we decided to see about Erika's whereabouts, but that wasn't a great decision.

Plus, with the state that London is in, I really don't want Anthony going back into the city solo. We need Eddie watching our back, especially since we are distinctly lacking in any cool magical artifacts.

 

[SCO]

I just think this is the more efficient schedule for a wasted night anyway, especially since the Tremere will make a move and we're in a position to watch their stuff and coordinating, they're going to be especially interested in 'proving' themselves. - i don't actually care about who you decide to save, i'm not thinking about the election. To the victors goes the spoils anyway (minus a backstab or two we are all planing i'm sure).

If we get to the team as soon as possible, what's the point? We're not the commanding officer and don't have a clue about much to use them on, let fellowes go and Crips skulk, gather intel and save any attacked elder vampires, and strike at a hard target.

Needless to say, although i think that the most efficient way to play this out would be a unified force, i don't think that's likely

What the fuck is vogler doing? Going to the nossies or what?

 

[Deleted Member 10432]

Flopping to (P) Cripps. One other advantage of Esquilax's idea is that by getting Turcov to safety (if he's alive), we help stabilise the situation. And a stabilising force is what Iacomo is looking for.

 

[Gondolin]

Yeah. Let's phone Cripps. We need a scout.

But Esquillax also has a point. the Camarilla needs leaders right now. Preferably Turcov, with Tony by his side. If Turcov has a lead on some Sabbat den, so much the better. Point is, we need to go into the city in person and be seen taking charge and rallying the Camarilla. I'm not sure if this is the right time, but I can't see how a delay would help things either. Our position worsens and our room for maneuver shrinks with every Camarilla/friendly leader who dies the final death.

 

[ironyuri]

Flopping to (P) Cripps. One other advantage of Esquilax's idea is that by getting Turcov to safety (if he's alive), we help stabilise the situation. And a stabilising force is what Iacomo is looking for.

Ffs. It was originally my idea to phone Cripps and to send him to find out if Turcov is still alive.

 

[laclongquan]

Hmmmm~

I think (P) Cripps first to get his firsthand data of the situation. Then we direct him to recon the Club, so that when we arrive we have enough info to act immediately. One call, two purposes.

Official Vote: F. It now fall upon Sommers to save their sorry asses. Again.

Reason? As I stated above, if the ambush at the Club succeed, Camarilla will lose their leadership at this resumption of Sabbat hostility. Turcov is but one baron, while the Club have many need rescued. Get there fastest with the mostest to save the day.

 

[Esquilax]

ironyuri: It wasn't my idea, nor was it one that I agreed with. The idea that I agreed with (it was Storyfag's idea) was for Cripps to recon the Taurien Club to see where they go afterwards. Having Cripps rescue Turcov is tempting, but we need targets. We don't know where the Sabbat are even striking from.

What I proposed was rescuing Turcov ourselves and heading to Sussex later to regroup, while phoning Cripps to recon the Taurien Club to find where the Sabbat are striking from. That way we get some information and a powerful ally to safety before we bring out the ghoul squad.

But Esquillax also has a point. the Camarilla needs leaders right now. Preferably Turcov, with Tony by his side. If Turcov has a lead on some Sabbat den, so much the better. Point is, we need to go into the city in person and be seen taking charge and rallying the Camarilla. I'm not sure if this is the right time, but I can't see how a delay would help things either. Our position worsens and our room for maneuver shrinks with every Camarilla/friendly leader who dies the final death.

To me, it's not so much that the Camarilla needs leaders (that's part of it), it's that Anthony needs someone to work with if we're going to successfully counterattack the Sabbat in the coming nights. Turcov has lots of information-gathering resources (metagaming knowledge indicates that his childe Wyther was going to the sewers like Vogler was - Turcov would know why), alliances with the Toreador Barons throughout the city, and is the most powerful Baron in London easily. Everything that we know about him indicates that the man is a smart and ruthless player who is very good at his job, even if Tony happens to not like him very much.

Coincidentally, this is exactly why I would advocate not helping the other Ventrue Barons at the Taurien Club. They are short-sighted, shitty leaders and I think that they are only really useful as Sabbat-bait so that Cripps can tell us where the vampires who attacked them are hiding. Personally, I think that a culling of the herd so that more competent individuals can take the Barony later is a good thing. I mean, look at these inept losers:

Rodyon Turcov: Ventrue Primogen, Baron of Mayfair

With his new-found territory in the heart of London, Turcov has moved into the fashionable 50 Berkeley Square, once, legendarily, the most haunted house in the city, where at least three Kine are said to have died of fright or committed suicide having spent the night there. Now, however, the house is quiet, and a splendid, fortified base from which Turcov may both gather his mostly Toreador artistic court and network with his new neighbours; the incredibly wealthy Russian oligarchs and Saudi businessmen who dominate the leafy squares of Mayfair.

Eda Sly: Ventrue Baron of Southwark and Lewisham

Eda is one of the elder Ventrue in London, an old Victorian Kindred who lobbied (unsuccessfully) against Prince Kirkbeck after the fall of Anne Bowesley, which led to her dismissal to her relatively unimpressive barony on the outskirts of the city. Her bitterness has proven her weakness; rather than attempting to re-learn the new Camarilla social structure and work her way back up it, she's stewed and brooded in her rooms over the old Clink Prison on the southern banks of the river, cursing johnny-come-latelys and especially Turcov, who is her elder but a foreigner, and should not, therefore, be primogen. With Kirkbeck's death, she's begun to speak up more loudly, stating that it's her turn now; she is most likely bound to be disappointed once again.

Earl Godrick: Ventrue Baron of the South

The South is barely Camarilla anymore; it's well-known. Certainly Godrick, another of the city's oldest and most aristocratic Ventrue, does not bother trying to keep control down there or combating the Sabbat, but keeps to either his Cavendish Square home or his mansion in Surrey; he is most notable these days for his continued chairmanship of the Taurien Club, the elite and currently sparsely-populated private club intended to be a gathering of London's most important Ventrue. Anthony Sommers has yet to receive his invitation.

Jacqueline Dee: Ventrue Baron of Richmond & Hounslow

Another of Turcov's friends, and a childe of Lady Anne's herself, the highly intelligent but slightly subservient Dee was a disappointment to her ambitious sire, and spent many of her years as a fledgling as a kind of Ventrue intern, shuttled back and forth between her elders, until she found a position that truly suited her - as a solicitor and accountant to the city's wealthiest Kindred. Though she now holds a barony, it is clearly as a favour to her patron Turcov; Dee is most contented managing the power of others.

Moreover, I think that rescuing Turcov and letting the rest of the Barons die presents us with a lot of opportunities regarding an alliance with Bob Griddle's Anarchs. Think about it: if a few Ventrue Barons who hold shitty domains to begin with are knocked off, that leaves a power vacuum and the opportunity to give out concessions. Since they're dead anyways, we could give Griddle's people some meager concessions of Earl Godrick's Sabbat-ridden territory or some industrial shitholes in return for their help against the Sabbat. We couldn't arrange this sort of alliance on our own because we aren't powerful enough to unilaterally dictate Camarilla policy and hand out domains (we'd get staked), but if we do it with the powerful Turcov, who is the closest thing to a Prince that London has, we can.

As for being the leader, I have no intention of having Turcov be the leader should he still be okay. We will have to control the political narrative in the coming nights to ensure that we look like the hero/leader these coming nights, no matter who is with us. Connaught sent a radio message on a wavelength that the Nosferatu use with the goal of demoralizing the Camarilla and terrorizing as many vampires as possible into retreating to make taking London as easy as possible.

If we can somehow issue a message of our own once we get to Sussex, it'll do a lot to give our side confidence. We could state that (a) Turcov is alive and with us, and (b) we can make Connaught look like a fool because of all the Ventrue Barons he managed to kill, he couldn't get either the Primogen or the guy who killed Sculptor Angelos, the two most dangerous guys on the other side to begin with.

 

[laclongquan]

I would avise against doing away with the lot of them. We must think of our safety first, which is the Camarilla itself. IF we let them die to the last vamp in that ambush, there's a great void of leadership in the town and WE CAN NOT FILL IT. We simply dont have enough power to keep full control of the Cami vamps, defend against the Sabbat attacks, AND keep a lid on the Anarchs.

More importantly, we are also one desired target for the Sabbat. We are, after all, is the mastermind of the ambush that cost them their leader and a big part of their force. Not for nothing that their provocative attacks also aim at us. Without the resources of all Camarilla to draw on, we wont be able to defend ourself.

I briefly contemplate the idea of letting the Club go unsaved, but our self-interest make that a dangerous road, unhealthy for life and prosperity.

 

[Esquilax]

I would avise against doing away with the lot of them. We must think of our safety first, which is the Camarilla itself. IF we let them die to the last vamp in that ambush, there's a great void of leadership in the town and WE CAN NOT FILL IT. We simply dont have enough power to keep full control of the Cami vamps, defend against the Sabbat attacks, AND keep a lid on the Anarchs.

More importantly, we are also one desired target for the Sabbat. We are, after all, is the mastermind of the ambush that cost them their leader and a big part of their force. Not for nothing that their provocative attacks also aim at us. Without the resources of all Camarilla to draw on, we wont be able to defend ourself.

I briefly contemplate the idea of letting the Club go unsaved, but our self-interest make that a dangerous road, unhealthy for life and prosperity.

Good point, but I would respond by saying that Turcov is worth all those guys put together. He has a ton of resources and he's a better leader than those other Barons. Also, it was through his political skill and patronage that many other Barons rose up in the first place (i.e. Jackie Dee, the unmourned suicide bomber Digby Deeds). Turcov also seems like just the guy to keep a lid on the Anarchs in that he maintains a facade of being a radical, while deep down he's the same serf-oppressing Russian Ventrue we know him to be. Hell, he was the one who countered Griddle's attempt at discrediting the Camarilla in the prologue:

Turcov, calling upon his Camarilla allies, struck quickly, pre-empting the Anarchs’ attempts to discredit the Camarilla, and cutting off the possibility of civil war before it began.

If there's one guy who is a slick enough politician to deal with any bullshit the Anarchs might pull, it's Turcov. The other reason I don't want to go to the Taurien Club is that it seems really fucking dangerous for relatively little reward. Two Kindred, only one of whom is any good at fighting (hint: it isn't us), going up against a Sabbat assault team that's coming in full-force? Even if we call Cripps to back us up, those are still shitty odds. I'd rather just call Cripps to survey the damage and find out where the Sabbat are hiding at. If the Sabbat are capturing them and not killing them on the spot (it's possible that a Tzimisce Archbishop would want to torture them for a while), then great, we can rescue them anyways with our ghoul squad when we find out where the Sabbat are taking them.

And if they die, they die. Fuck 'em. Really, it's nothing personal, I just don't see what skills they bring to the table. Earl Godrick was Baron in South London for years, yet he never bothered to investigate the Sabbat at all. The man is inept and I don't really care about him. Eda Sly isn't much better. The loss of Jacqueline Dee would hurt a bit though, since she actually seems somewhat competent.

 

[Gondolin]

First of all, planning the future structure of the Camarilla is nice, but Turcov (if he's alive) is going to have ideas of his own. Once we find him, we lose a LOT of our freedom of action. He's older, more powerful and has better resources. He'll say "молодец, Tony, you're a brave lad. Now go out and play while the grown-up does the real work." Also, we're not the only ones who would take advantage of the chaos to do some culling, so we need to watch our back around Turcov.

Second, Jackie Dee is exactly the kind of baron we need to keep in "power". She'll always let us do as we please. Sly should be asked to prove her worth to the Camarilla. Preferably by leading an attack on a Sabbat den. Godrick should be told to move his ass and fight the Sabbat or see the next sunrise live. Since these incompetents allowed Turcov to rise, he'll probably want all of them saved.

 

[Esquilax]

So what's the smart move here, then? Call Cripps to rescue Turcov or to recon the Taurien Club? If we get Cripps to rescue Turcov, it'll do a lot to stabilize the situation, but we still don't have a target for our ghoul squad. If we recon the Taurien Club, we've got a target, but that risks having all the Barons at the Taurien Club knocked off. On the plus side, if they're staked and shoved into a van for transport somewhere else, rescuing them with our ghoul squad will be perfect.

What about going there in person and calling Cripps to meet us there as backup? Will it work, or is it fucking nuts?

I just wanted to note that if we were to take Turcov to Sussex, it wouldn't hinder our freedom at all. He would be in our base, surrounded by our ghouls, with our bodyguard watching him. And the whole city believing that he is dead. What could be possibly do if he's on our turf? If he oversteps his boundaries, correcting will be easy. A friendly reminder of "I could order my guys here to vaporize you right now and get away with it, so shut the fuck up while I lead this operation" will work just fine. He's in no position to bark orders at us in those conditions.

 

[Gondolin]

So what's the smart move here, then?

This is what I think we should do:

I - Phone Cripps and tell him to scout Tucov's residence, then the Taurien Club. Send Eddie to gather the team and head for a meeting place on the outskirts of London (not Witanhurst, not the Palace, not any place known to the Sabbat). Ask Grocyn if the Tremere can spare any firepower to add to your team (some mages or shit). Then head for the meeting place, link up with Eddie and wait for Cripps's report.

Then we decide what to do next.

 

[laclongquan]

Good point, but I would respond by saying that Turcov is worth all those guys put together. He has a ton of resources and he's a better leader than those other Barons. Also, it was through his political skill and patronage that many other Barons rose up in the first place (i.e. Jackie Dee, the unmourned suicide bomber Digby Deeds). Turcov also seems like just the guy to keep a lid on the Anarchs in that he maintains a facade of being a radical, while deep down he's the same serf-oppressing Russian Ventrue we know him to be. Hell, he was the one who countered Griddle's attempt at discrediting the Camarilla in the prologue:

I agree with your estimate of Turcov: he worth than a lot of other barons combined. Not enough to declare himself Prince and have to use a puppet, but certainly worth a lot.

The problem is meta game: we know he suffers a heavy attack. Even if he survive that assassination, there's no guarantee that there wont be a squad of Sabbat waiting outside to swoop in to finish off.

So I offers this reason instead of that meta reason: approriately because he worth more than most that he's harder to manipulate. What is his weakness here, precisely? We know a few more baron(e)s with weakness but curiously he doesnt seem to have any. The survivors of the Club offer more opportunities than his continued existence.