Let's learn about fighting games and get murdered together.

[Great Deceiver]

Also, seeing how everyone loves The Last Blade 2 and Garou: Mark of the Wolves so much, I decided I wanna give them a try too. Which are the optimal versions tho? I'd favor Dreamcast because I find RAs version of Flycast easy to use, but people seem to bitch and moan about slowdowns and delayed music. PC version, sure, but if i understand correctly, it lacks a character for Last Blade 2, just like the PS2 version does. Neo-Geo CD seems to be the superior version, but I've never tried emulating it.

The original versions are always best, especially in the case of NeoGeo games. Go for the MVS versions. NeoCD had less RAM and awful load times.

The only exception is sometimes Saturn ports had some cool extras e.g. the Saturn version of Twinkle Star Sprites

Yeah, the original versions of a lot of fighting games aren’t the best. Especially once you get to the Dreamcast. Like, the arcade version of some 2D fighting game is always going to be better than the fucking PSX version, or like some 16-bit era port. But you’ll probably want the Dreamcast version of Street Fighter Alpha 3 over the arcade version...unless you’ve got the arcade version of the Dreamcast version maybe. You’re going to want Sega Saturn Cyberbots with the macha Zero Akuma (and others) over the arcade version. Once you’re in the Dreamcast/PS2/Xbox era, if you’re not playing the console version of a KoF game, you’re going to be missing out on a bunch of characters.

I’d play the Dreamcast version of Garou: Mark of the Wolves. That game has the most fun Survival Mode of any fighting game I’ve ever played. Not a fighting game, but an SNK game all the same, the best version of Metal Slug 3 is still the original Xbox version which has modes like Fat Island and Storming the UFO Mothership.

No, you wouldn't want to play SFZ3 Upper over the CPS2 original, because the resolution is shit and sprites look botched, and plus the balance changes were pretty much universally hated by people who actually played the game. There's also additional input delay. I had the Naomi version set up for awhile and everyone here preferred playing the CPS2 original.

Barring very few exceptions, playing ports of these old games is for filthy casuals, especially in this day and age when emulation is so advanced. The only reason people dealt with inferior ports back in the day was because there was simply no other choice, and no, in a competitive game superfluous shit like "survival mode" doesn't make up for everything else being worse.

Imagine thinking, for example, that the Dreamcast version of KoF 98, with its completely botched gameplay, disproportionately small and poorly scaled sprites on top of distracting 3d background elements is superior to the original. What a joke.

Generally people would rather have the Dreamcast version of SFA3 with its six new characters over the arcade version. Also not sure many people could even point out the visual difference between the original arcade version and the upscaled Dreamcast version.

You’re not a fucking competitive gamer when it comes to fighting games and I doubt anyone else in here is either so I’m not sure why you’re talking about it like you’re headed off to EVO or something. Yeah, a fun Survival Mode is a plus, which Mark of the Wolves has. 99% of the time Survival Mode wouldn’t mean anything, but the version of it in Mark of the Wolves is fun enough it’s worth mentioning. Sometime when you’re playing a fighting game, you aren’t playing it with other people, and sometimes it’s fun to mix things up from the regular mode of play.

It’s also fun to fuck around with the dip switch setting if the game gives you the option. Like, the system direction stuff with Third Strike in the Street Fighter Anniversary Collection and Dreamcast version which lets you turn air blocks on a stuff. If you’re just playing the game to have fun, and not training for some tournament, these are fun things to play around with.

I didn’t even mention KoF ‘98. Although your average person is going to get more out of the later Ultimate Match versions of ‘98 which add in the missing Orochi Saga era KoF characters minus the previous Rugals...which it should’ve included.

I've been playing fighting games in competitive settings since you were in diapers probably, and yet I'm not the one talking about "most people", or "generally people"; I'm talking about my experiences as an arcade fighting game player back when arcades existed and the people I knew from that environment when the games you are talking about were relevant and actively being played by people right next to you and not 3,000 miles away, when it cost something to play and when losing had meaning - in addition to losing money, you had to go back to the end of the line, and that line was sometimes pretty big.

You are projecting your opinions on a diffuse, ill-defined group for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I'm providing you with contrary evidence and concrete examples and justifying why I think your opinion is just wrong, yet you proceed to conveniently ignore all that and double down on yet another "lol of course people prefer x".

You're also underestimating people's ability to perceive technical/graphical differences. The overwhelming reaction at the time of MvC2's release, for example, even by laymen, was that the old sprites looked terrible, not because the sprites themselves are bad, but obviously because they looked butchered upscaled to 640x480 against 3d backgrounds. People aren't as blind as you seem to think, and even if they can't properly articulate why something looks bad, they can still feel it. Same thing for CvS1/2.

So cool it with the "you're not a competitive gamer" crap, I don't give a shit about the "FGC", tournaments and the current state of the industry, it's all decline as far as I'm concerned and I suspect a lot of people who care about that shit are people who don't play the games and only watch Twitch streams. There is such a thing as wanting to play a game competently and correctly even if not competitively, and trying to suggest otherwise or dismiss someone else's opinion of something because they're not an Evo contender, while you yourself are spouting bullshit about PORTS ARE BETTER BECAUSE THEY HAVE SURVIVAL MODE is simply a weak, snivelling cop-out.

You have consistently terrible takes, are wrong about most stuff you post about but particularly regarding FGs, how they work, how they are perceived, and where they should be headed. All of your blanket statements are just projections and/or plain wrong.

I'll end by saying that extra modes are fine (even if I don't care about most of them, I've never played more than 5 minutes of single player content in any fighting game), but they'll never make up for inferior ports and those that simply play wrong compared to the standard, accepted version by those who actually play the fucking game.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Is the second [Bushido Blade] game also worth it?

I can't say for sure: I only played it briefly and regarded it is as a downgrade starting with the visuals and the very menu design, while the control scheme changed drastically into a command system I don't recall the particulars of but found cumbersome and left me confused (even checking the manual now I can't neither understand nor remember what the buttons do) as the original already was very intuitive and precise, and the single player mode mixed regular duels with new, excessive trash mobs and a higher number of PSX rendered dark cutscenes that I found of little interest, clashing with the austere yet colourful and elegant presentation of the story/arcade mode of the original. So, pretty quickly I decided it was inferior and went back to the first entry; I might have been hasty in my judgement and it could still have some merits, but I'm pretty confident in saying the first one was a more accomplished work that looked and played better.

Agreed. I liked the first BB much more than the second one, which as far as I remember tried to be a more conventional FG in a lot of ways. Stick with the first one IMO.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Also, seeing how everyone loves The Last Blade 2 and Garou: Mark of the Wolves so much, I decided I wanna give them a try too. Which are the optimal versions tho? I'd favor Dreamcast because I find RAs version of Flycast easy to use, but people seem to bitch and moan about slowdowns and delayed music. PC version, sure, but if i understand correctly, it lacks a character for Last Blade 2, just like the PS2 version does. Neo-Geo CD seems to be the superior version, but I've never tried emulating it.

The original versions are always best, especially in the case of NeoGeo games. Go for the MVS versions. NeoCD had less RAM and awful load times.

The only exception is sometimes Saturn ports had some cool extras e.g. the Saturn version of Twinkle Star Sprites

Yeah, the original versions of a lot of fighting games aren’t the best. Especially once you get to the Dreamcast. Like, the arcade version of some 2D fighting game is always going to be better than the fucking PSX version, or like some 16-bit era port. But you’ll probably want the Dreamcast version of Street Fighter Alpha 3 over the arcade version...unless you’ve got the arcade version of the Dreamcast version maybe. You’re going to want Sega Saturn Cyberbots with the macha Zero Akuma (and others) over the arcade version. Once you’re in the Dreamcast/PS2/Xbox era, if you’re not playing the console version of a KoF game, you’re going to be missing out on a bunch of characters.

I’d play the Dreamcast version of Garou: Mark of the Wolves. That game has the most fun Survival Mode of any fighting game I’ve ever played. Not a fighting game, but an SNK game all the same, the best version of Metal Slug 3 is still the original Xbox version which has modes like Fat Island and Storming the UFO Mothership.

No, you wouldn't want to play SFZ3 Upper over the CPS2 original, because the resolution is shit and sprites look botched, and plus the balance changes were pretty much universally hated by people who actually played the game. There's also additional input delay. I had the Naomi version set up for awhile and everyone here preferred playing the CPS2 original.

Barring very few exceptions, playing ports of these old games is for filthy casuals, especially in this day and age when emulation is so advanced. The only reason people dealt with inferior ports back in the day was because there was simply no other choice, and no, in a competitive game superfluous shit like "survival mode" doesn't make up for everything else being worse.

Imagine thinking, for example, that the Dreamcast version of KoF 98, with its completely botched gameplay, disproportionately small and poorly scaled sprites on top of distracting 3d background elements is superior to the original. What a joke.

Generally people would rather have the Dreamcast version of SFA3 with its six new characters over the arcade version. Also not sure many people could even point out the visual difference between the original arcade version and the upscaled Dreamcast version.

You’re not a fucking competitive gamer when it comes to fighting games and I doubt anyone else in here is either so I’m not sure why you’re talking about it like you’re headed off to EVO or something. Yeah, a fun Survival Mode is a plus, which Mark of the Wolves has. 99% of the time Survival Mode wouldn’t mean anything, but the version of it in Mark of the Wolves is fun enough it’s worth mentioning. Sometime when you’re playing a fighting game, you aren’t playing it with other people, and sometimes it’s fun to mix things up from the regular mode of play.

It’s also fun to fuck around with the dip switch setting if the game gives you the option. Like, the system direction stuff with Third Strike in the Street Fighter Anniversary Collection and Dreamcast version which lets you turn air blocks on a stuff. If you’re just playing the game to have fun, and not training for some tournament, these are fun things to play around with.

I didn’t even mention KoF ‘98. Although your average person is going to get more out of the later Ultimate Match versions of ‘98 which add in the missing Orochi Saga era KoF characters minus the previous Rugals...which it should’ve included.

I've been playing fighting games in competitive settings since you were in diapers probably, and yet I'm not the one talking about "most people", or "generally people"; I'm talking about my experiences as an arcade fighting game player back when arcades existed and the people I knew from that environment when the games you are talking about were relevant and actively being played by people right next to you and not 3,000 miles away, when it cost something to play and when losing had meaning - in addition to losing money, you had to go back to the end of the line, and that line was sometimes pretty big.

You are projecting your opinions on a diffuse, ill-defined group for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I'm providing you with contrary evidence and concrete examples and justifying why I think your opinion is just wrong, yet you proceed to conveniently ignore all that and double down on yet another "lol of course people prefer x".

You're also underestimating people's ability to perceive technical/graphical differences. The overwhelming reaction at the time of MvC2's release, for example, even by laymen, was that the old sprites looked terrible, not because the sprites themselves are bad, but obviously because they looked butchered upscaled to 640x480 against 3d backgrounds. People aren't as blind as you seem to think, and even if they can't properly articulate why something looks bad, they can still feel it. Same thing for CvS1/2.

So cool it with the "you're not a competitive gamer" crap, I don't give a shit about the "FGC", tournaments and the current state of the industry, it's all decline as far as I'm concerned and I suspect a lot of people who care about that shit are people who don't play the games and only watch Twitch streams. There is such a thing as wanting to play a game competently and correctly even if not competitively, and trying to suggest otherwise or dismiss someone else's opinion of something because they're not an Evo contender, while you yourself are spouting bullshit about PORTS ARE BETTER BECAUSE THEY HAVE SURVIVAL MODE is simply a weak, snivelling cop-out.

You have consistently terrible takes, are wrong about most stuff you post about but particularly regarding FGs, how they work, how they are perceived, and where they should be headed. All of your blanket statements are just projections and/or plain wrong.

I'll end by saying that extra modes are fine (even if I don't care about most of them, I've never played more than 5 minutes of single player content in any fighting game), but they'll never make up for inferior ports and those that simply play wrong compared to the standard, accepted version by those who actually play the fucking game.

Unless you were playing competitive Yie Ar Kung-Fu or something this would be impossible.

If it makes you feel better, I too was playing all these games in the arcade when they were new. At least a whole lot of them. I didn’t come across Red Earth in an arcade until the early 2000s. But I was playing Street Fighter 2 and all the early SNK fighting games a few times a week in mall arcades, pizza places, and skating rinks. When I was a kid my mom worked at a college and they had some King of Fighters games in the student lobby area and I’d go down there sometime and play random students that happened to be around. It was KoF and pool, although as the ‘90s rolled on the MVS cabinet went away; would take a little longer but the same would happen with the little arcade setup at my high school. Whole reason I got a Sega Saturn was because they had the King of Fighters games...and because there was no fucking way I was getting a Neo Geo given how much those games cost. Also, rarely did I ever have to go to the back of the line at an arcade. Like I’m not great at fighting games, but I almost never lost to anyone at an arcade beyond the time when Street Fighter II: The World Warrior was brand new.

What’s the point in using Marvel vs Capcom 2? That’s not the game that was being talked about, and it’s a whole different situation. It’s not really comparable to the SFA3 thing that was being talking about before. Nor is how Capcom vs SNK 2 resized the sprites for the PS2 version to make the characters bigger on screen.

Here’s the thing, you’re basically saying jack shit and just jerking off. Yeah, the Dreamcast version of Garou: Mark of the Wolves is going to be a more fun game for someone to play because of the survival mode. It’s a great single player experience. And when you’re playing a fighting game by yourself, and you’ve played it a whole fucking lot, a really fun novel thing like the specific survival mode in Mark of the Wolves is a valuable thing to have. This isn’t to say this is true of every survival mode in every home port of a fighting game; I’m specifically talking about Mark of the Wolves, which has the greatest survival mode ever put in a fighting game and is incredibly fun to play. This point you’re making is fairly stupid anyways given Mark of the Wolves on Dreamcast basically is an arcade perfect port outside of a soundtrack change.

You also never played more than five minutes of single player in a fighting game and you want me to believe you’re mister fighting gamer that’s been playing fighting games for however fucking long? Did you only just get into fighting games when they went online? You live right next to an arcade or something that also always happened to be packed? I don’t believe someone that was into fighting games in the ‘90s didn’t play lots of single player in the ‘90s. Even when you go to the arcade you could end up playing single player; either because not many people happened to be there at that moment, or the people you’re playing with fuck off after you beat them enough times.

 

[Great Deceiver]

There was never any time to play single player at arcades because the machines were always packed with people (at least the popular, current games, and who cares about SF EX Plus Alpha if there's a 15-people line for Tekken 3). I not only frequented most arcades in my immediate vicinity from 1993 to 2003 but I actually owned and operated one from 2004-2006. It had 12 cabinets, including two Naomis 1s on rotation, 1 with CvS2 and another on which I tried SFZ3 Upper (to the dismay of the local crowd) from time to time. I also had a Naomi 2 with Virtua Fighter 4: Final Tuned set up - the only one in my area (LA) ever, as far as I know. Tekken 5 DR was on a 39" tube cabinet, I had it on release before everyone else, with cards and everything. I really loved playing FGs in an arcade setting and I was tired of how lazy other operators were, so I tried doing it myself. The business failed miserably and it broke me.

But the situation you describe is precisely the opposite - I got turned off of fighting games when they went online, precisely because there was no cost involved and no penalty for losing, also the in-person element is crucial for me and playing at home, rematching however many times in a row, under different conditions from your opponent on top of added delay can never be considered a true FG experience.

I'm really not interested in a shit-flinging contest, so you can just continue to think that ports are better than the originals because of superfluous shit like Survival Mode, or that arcades weren't completely filled with predators who would instantly go vs. anyone on any machine where they inserted a quarter or a token to play single player. Maybe your mall/quick-e mart/college machines were very tame locales in comparison, I dunno. But around here people got shot over MK fatalities or doing 3 throws in a row in SamSho2. There was no "gentlemanly" competition at all, the only goal was to make the other guy lose money and show everyone how much better you were.

Anyway, just read this quote aloud a few times:

Like I’m not great at fighting games, but I almost never lost to anyone at an arcade beyond the time when Street Fighter II: The World Warrior was brand new.

If you don't realize that these two sentences are mutually contradictory, I really don't know what to tell you - you're either a God-talent at FGs or you never played against anyone remotely competent. I suspect the sort of person who thinks Multiversus is "going to be huge" and thinks the reason FGs aren't more popular is because inputs are too complicated (remember how badly owned you were in that DBFZ discussion?) tends more towards the latter, but I could be wrong, who knows.

Re: MvC2, the point was that upscaled sprites look like shit, how is that not related to upscaled sprites looking like shit and wrong in Naomi/Dreamcast SFZ3 Upper? You're the one who said people don't care about it, I said you're underestimating normie perception and that they do, and presented a time-appropriate example using a game that was very popular even among super casual audiences. Again, you just ignore it and say "lolwut". You're fucking hopeless.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

It’s possible to be really good at a fighting game but not great at it. Like it’s not crazy to be able to beat basically everyone you come across in some local setting, but still get your ass kicked when you move into wider venues. It was definitely getting my ass kicked by some Japanese players when I started playing BlazBlue online at a friends place.

I also don’t really play fighting games online much. I mostly played them in arcades growing up.

What MvC2 did isn’t related to what SFA3 did because they’re two different games that did different things. Dreamcast SFA3 is still 1:1 with the arcade version. MVC2 is a different game, pulling sprites from all over the place, dropping character animations, and coloring sprites differently. They didn’t just make the SFA3 sprites bigger like they did with the sprites for the PS2 version of CvS2.

If you don't realize that these two sentences are mutually contradictory, I really don't know what to tell you - you're either a God-talent at FGs or you never played against anyone remotely competent. I suspect the sort of person who thinks Multiversus is "going to be huge" and thinks the reason FGs aren't more popular is because inputs are too complicated (remember how badly owned you were in that DBFZ discussion?) tends more towards the latter, but I could be wrong, who knows.

This has to be the dumbest fucking point you’ve tried making, and your full of dumb fucking points. My opinion on move inputs comes from interacting with people who aren’t as into fighting games as me, watching them bounce off of them, and watching fighting games go from being the biggest genre of video game on the planet to a fairly small niche in about a decade. It is not a thing I personally need a fighting game to do, but it is something I think fighting games could do to get more people to play them.

There also clearly seems to be a correlation between inputs and general popularity. Same with the general decline in interest in fighting game as fighting games added on more kinds of systems.

Multiversus also was huge. To say it wasn’t would be dumb. It was big for like half a year despite never leaving beta, and not adding a new character (according to Wikipedia) since November. Multiversus shows F2P can work with a fighting game, there will be a audience far bigger that shows up than does at retail price. But it also shows if you aren’t ready for that audience they’re going to slowly drift away. You could also say it shows if the game sucks or whatever the audience will leave too, but the audience hung around for too long for that to be totally true. And I doubt anyone on Codex believes only good games have audiences.

What DBFZ discussion?

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Jean the fag Dante cosplayer

Jean is clearly a JoJo cosplayer
Also his blue costume is pretty cool

 

[DJOGamer PT]

On that note
Honestly its kinda baffling for a japanese fighting game series, that prided itself on basing characters movesets over actual martial arts, to have taken 10+ years and many game releases later to finally create characters that make use of Judo, Muay Thai and Karate
Literally 3 of the most popular and widely practiced asian martial arts
Yet meme martial arts like Sumo, Aikido, Ninjutsu and fucking Drunken Kung-Fu were all introduced much earlier

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

On that note
Honestly its kinda baffling for a japanese fighting game series, that prided itself on basing characters movesets over actual martial arts, to have taken 10+ years and many game releases later to finally create characters that make use of Judo, Muay Thai and Karate
Literally 3 of the most popular and widely practiced asian martial arts
Yet meme martial arts like Sumo, Aikido, Ninjutsu and fucking Drunken Kung-Fu were all introduced much earlier

My only guess would be that they intentionally avoided them because they were staples of other fighting games. At least Karate and Muay Thai because of Street Fighter 2. Judo may have just been because of animations or something.

I’m a little surprised they never add Ryo Hazuki to the series. Especially since it started as a Virtua Fighter RPG.

 

[v1rus]

SNK did that yuge NeoGeo Online Collection for PS2, collecting pretty much everything they did up to that point, Including Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter and Waku Waku 7/Galaxy Fight. These are supposed to be ports of the original Arcade release. Any truth in that?

Also, when it comes to sega, VF1,VF2, FV1, LB. Were these also butchered in the port process?

 

[Nutmeg]

If they are trying to be straight ports why would you prefer them over the originals?

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

SNK did that yuge NeoGeo Online Collection for PS2, collecting pretty much everything they did up to that point, Including Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter and Waku Waku 7/Galaxy Fight. These are supposed to be ports of the original Arcade release. Any truth in that?

Also, when it comes to sega, VF1,VF2, FV1, LB. Were these also butchered in the port process?

You might have to look into how those run.

I think they’re all the arcade games being emulated other than Mark of the Wolves. I’ve heard both the US Orochi and Samurai Shodown collections run like shit, and the Last Blade 2 one has some kind of problem. Not sure if any of the others run bad.

 

[v1rus]

If they are trying to be straight ports why would you prefer them over the originals?

I hate setting up MAME, and I need to reorganize my collection yugely, prolly. PS2 games are easy to put and maneuver around, plus I have an old, old, ps2 in my weeknd house, and burning some DVDs for that would be awesome.

I need to mess with retroarch more, and make some filters/new playlists. Setting up arcade version of SFA3 and SF3, and then the Fightcade version took me... Waay too long.

 

[Nutmeg]

If they are trying to be straight ports why would you prefer them over the originals?

I hate setting up MAME, and I need to reorganize my collection yugely, prolly. PS2 games are easy to put and maneuver around, plus I have an old, old, ps2 in my weeknd house, and burning some DVDs for that would be awesome.

I need to mess with retroarch more, and make some filters/new playlists. Setting up arcade version of SFA3 and SF3, and then the Fightcade version took me... Waay too long.

Use fbneo (fbneo is the emulator that powers fightcade) through retroarch. That's what I do anyway. Fbneo is better (in retroarch) than mame for the games it supports (importantly for fighters - all CPS2, and all NeoGeo) cause the core supports runahead, and also because it is more tolerant towards romsets. I haven't updated my romset for a good while and everything runs fine with a fairly recent fbneo core.

 

[Parsifarka]

SNK did that yuge NeoGeo Online Collection for PS2, collecting pretty much everything they did up to that point, Including Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter and Waku Waku 7/Galaxy Fight. These are supposed to be ports of the original Arcade release. Any truth in that?

Also, when it comes to sega, VF1,VF2, FV1, LB. Were these also butchered in the port process?

As Nutmeg said, fbneo is all you need for NeoGeo and CPS, no reason to play any port of those games.
When it comes to SEGA, as far as I know the only emulator currently running Model 1 (VF1) and STV (VF1Remix) is MAME, but the emulation quality is horrible: you get a warning about it still being work in progress when booting the games up and then find an experience full of glitches, visual misalignment with hitboxes and even botched physics. So with the current state of emulation I would go for the Saturn ports instead, and you could even add the stupid VF Kids to the selection (even as a child I though it was bad, but it's remarkable as an oddity); there was a Windows port back in the day, but I haven't checked it yet.
VF2 and 2.1 work flawlessly with the Model 2 Emulator, same goes for Fighting Vipers and Last Bronx. I don't know of any reason whatsoever to play a VF2 port over the perfect arcade original, but Last Bronx does feature a new story mode in the Saturn and Windows releases, while the Japanese Saturn port of FV features Pepsiman as a secret character. Of course, you can expect animation and textures to be embarrassing when confronted with the gorgeous arcade original, but that extra content plus the training modes might make them worth checking as a complement though I would never pick them over the arcade releases. And I'm editing this message to add Model 2 Emulator will deliver a bright, smooth Sonic The Fighters/Championship as well, a wonder that must not be forgotten when speaking of silly fighting games.

 

[Nutmeg]

I think most Saturn emulators can handle STV now

 

[Great Deceiver]

Dreamcast SFA3 is still 1:1 with the arcade version.

Do you have a learning disability? No, it's not 1:1 with the CPS2 original - it might be 1:1 with Naomi SFZ3 Upper port (I haven't tested it extensively to know), but Naomi SFZ3 Upper looks like absolute fucking shit compared to the CPS2 original SFZ3, and has fundamental balance changes which didn't go across well at all with the people who actually play the fucking game, hence making your recommendation ill-advised, especially since you took it upon yourself to speak for everyone else because muh extra characters (find me a decent SFZ3 player who gives a shit about Fei Long being in the game and I'll give you a cookie). Which is what the original discussion was about, and which absolutely warrants a direct comparison with MvC2 on the grounds of botched sprites and resolution.

There also clearly seems to be a correlation between inputs and general popularity.

No, it doesn't, that's just IGN-tier reasoning, which is pretty standard coming from you. Tekken 7 has 1 frame moves all over the place, is generally a difficult game execution-wise and still sold over 10 million copies. Casuals have no chance in that game. DBFZ has touch of death combos everywhere (also with difficult execution), but simple inputs suck and it sold comparably. Turns out people like a well-made Dragon Ball game, who woulda thunk.

The correct line of argumentation established here about a year ago, again, which seems to have flown completely over your head despite you having been owned repeatedly by multiple people ITT, is that simplified inputs don't necessarily translate to normies liking FGs more, because scrubs will always make excuses for losing and inputs have nothing to do with it. A game with simplified inputs that doesn't penalize the player for doing them will still have good players dominating weak players, in fact much more easily because you can be damn sure they'll make a lot less mistakes compared to regular inputs (which were already very few). For proof, just look at DNF Duel. Do you think there are a lot of casuals in that game? It has simplified inputs and basically no penalty for doing them. Casual players will get destroyed and never touch a single button all 3 rounds. It has had sub 100 simultaneous players on Steam since a month after it got released and is in all respects a huge failure.

Anyway I'm not going to repeat everything that was written, just go back and the posts very slowly, maybe you'll get it it this time.

It's ok if you're a casual fan of FGs and like single-player extraneous modes like survival and so on because you've got no one to play against and you don't like to play get owned online. Just don't go vomiting your opinions on how ports are better than originals because they have said additional modes despite looking and playing worse, or how sales correlate to the ease of inputs, as some kind of easily observable general rule, because that's just projection and/or pulled straight out of your ass.

Anyway, enough derailing the thread.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I think most Saturn emulators can handle STV now

I've always had huge input lag problems with Saturn emulators, measured in Retroarch they're upwards of 6 frames depending on the game. I periodically check out the Beetle Saturn (based on Mednafen), Kronos and Yabause cores to see if the situation improves, but it's been like this for years.

There are a few exceptions like Panzer Dragoon Zwei which I measured out at 3 frames of delay, which is quite playable, but all other games I've tried, from wildly different genres like SRPGs, were all super laggy (SF3 for instance came out at 9 frames of delay, disgusting).

Is your experience different?

 

[Great Deceiver]

SNK did that yuge NeoGeo Online Collection for PS2, collecting pretty much everything they did up to that point, Including Savage Reign/Kizuna Encounter and Waku Waku 7/Galaxy Fight. These are supposed to be ports of the original Arcade release. Any truth in that?

Also, when it comes to sega, VF1,VF2, FV1, LB. Were these also butchered in the port process?

Of those I've only played the Sega Ages 2500 port of VF2 on the PS2 and it's not great. Colours/contrast look fucked up, and PS2 bilinear filtered textures look like shit. It also runs at 57.5hz, which although accurate (the Saturn port played too fast because it was clocked at 60) causes occasional judder if you're on a fixed refresh display.

Stick with emulating VF2.1 IMO.

 

[v1rus]

FBneo seems to work well so far for couple of ROMs I tried. Now, my Retroarch playlists are organized by their systems, which is how I prefer it. Is there a way to make a separate playlist for "figthing games", "party games", "run and guns" etc? That would be a life saver, because I have a shitton of games in my MAME playlist, and I'm scared that most of these awesome curious fighters will be swallowed up by other random stuff the next time me and the boys crack up a cold one.

Fightcade is what made me cave in (together with the fact that my fucking flycast still wont display shaders), its super duper freaking awesome. No sense in playing with random people obv, they are complete masters of their respective games, but its awesome to be able to play with friends online with it. I still kept a number of console ports where I like the added features, and those that are played on their Dreamcast version on Fightcade. Also training modes. I literally need training modes.

 

[Great Deceiver]

FBneo seems to work well so far for couple of ROMs I tried. Now, my Retroarch playlists are organized by their systems, which is how I prefer it. Is there a way to make a separate playlist for "figthing games", "party games", "run and guns" etc? That would be a life saver, because I have a shitton of games in my MAME playlist, and I'm scared that most of these awesome curious fighters will be swallowed up by other random stuff the next time me and the boys crack up a cold one.

Fightcade is what made me cave in (together with the fact that my fucking flycast still wont display shaders), its super duper freaking awesome. No sense in playing with random people obv, they are complete masters of their respective games, but its awesome to be able to play with friends online with it. I still kept a number of console ports where I like the added features, and those that are played on their Dreamcast version on Fightcade. Also training modes. I literally need training modes.

Yes, RA playlists are entirely customizable, and custom playlists are absolutely a must if your rom collection is large enough. It's easier to use the Desktop Menu (press F5) to make your own.

Glad you've been liking Fightcade and that my recommendation panned out!

 

[v1rus]

FBneo seems to work well so far for couple of ROMs I tried. Now, my Retroarch playlists are organized by their systems, which is how I prefer it. Is there a way to make a separate playlist for "figthing games", "party games", "run and guns" etc? That would be a life saver, because I have a shitton of games in my MAME playlist, and I'm scared that most of these awesome curious fighters will be swallowed up by other random stuff the next time me and the boys crack up a cold one.

Fightcade is what made me cave in (together with the fact that my fucking flycast still wont display shaders), its super duper freaking awesome. No sense in playing with random people obv, they are complete masters of their respective games, but its awesome to be able to play with friends online with it. I still kept a number of console ports where I like the added features, and those that are played on their Dreamcast version on Fightcade. Also training modes. I literally need training modes.

Yes, RA playlists are entirely customizable, and custom playlists are absolutely a must if your rom collection is large enough. It's easier to use the Desktop Menu (press F5) to make your own.

Glad you've been liking Fightcade and that my recommendation panned out!

I've been using F5 for a long, long while, since I add every game manually - lots of hacks/translations/re-translations which arent autodetected by RA, I'm an autist with my own naming standards, and I really, really like when a game has a nice cover artwork, thus I prefer to pick it out myself. My love of a nice covers is another reason why I tend to lean towards ports - say what you will, but a nice port cover beats any arcade flyer.

And no, I just cant add a Dreamcast cover to an arcade version of the game. I may be an autist, but I'm no barbarian, ffs.

 

[Poseidon00]

How many of you are still playing Injustice 2? I expected NRS to announce Injustice 3 but another Mortal Kombat first makes sense. Injustice has always used a slightly improved version of the last MKs engine, and given the mixed reviews of MK11's gameplay I can see why they would want to start from scratch.

Anyway, Gorilla Grodd. Nobody knows how to deal with this mf online. A quick breakdown:

Pros:

- long range on his normals, including d1, 221+3, 113, and b3.

- his charge can be meter burned at any time, doubling his running speed and granting armor to the move. An excellent surprise counter to many attacks if you see them coming.

- quick, long range grab

- his trait allows a special move that serves as a mid-screen combo extender.

- there are so few Grodd players out there that you can match-up check a significant amount of people you play with

Cons:

- all the cons of a big body character + no tools to really counter the strong zoners.

Overall he's a great side-pick if your main is either a zoner or a reliable counter-zoner.

 

[Great Deceiver]

FBneo seems to work well so far for couple of ROMs I tried. Now, my Retroarch playlists are organized by their systems, which is how I prefer it. Is there a way to make a separate playlist for "figthing games", "party games", "run and guns" etc? That would be a life saver, because I have a shitton of games in my MAME playlist, and I'm scared that most of these awesome curious fighters will be swallowed up by other random stuff the next time me and the boys crack up a cold one.

Fightcade is what made me cave in (together with the fact that my fucking flycast still wont display shaders), its super duper freaking awesome. No sense in playing with random people obv, they are complete masters of their respective games, but its awesome to be able to play with friends online with it. I still kept a number of console ports where I like the added features, and those that are played on their Dreamcast version on Fightcade. Also training modes. I literally need training modes.

Yes, RA playlists are entirely customizable, and custom playlists are absolutely a must if your rom collection is large enough. It's easier to use the Desktop Menu (press F5) to make your own.

Glad you've been liking Fightcade and that my recommendation panned out!

I've been using F5 for a long, long while, since I add every game manually - lots of hacks/translations/re-translations which arent autodetected by RA, I'm an autist with my own naming standards, and I really, really like when a game has a nice cover artwork, thus I prefer to pick it out myself. My love of a nice covers is another reason why I tend to lean towards ports - say what you will, but a nice port cover beats any arcade flyer.

And no, I just cant add a Dreamcast cover to an arcade version of the game. I may be an autist, but I'm no barbarian, ffs.

Then it should be pretty easy to create your own playlists, just right click on the playlists in the content browser and you're good to go.

I really like arcade flyers though. Some very iconic images from my teenage years there.

 

[Nutmeg]

I think most Saturn emulators can handle STV now

I've always had huge input lag problems with Saturn emulators, measured in Retroarch they're upwards of 6 frames depending on the game. I periodically check out the Beetle Saturn (based on Mednafen), Kronos and Yabause cores to see if the situation improves, but it's been like this for years.

There are a few exceptions like Panzer Dragoon Zwei which I measured out at 3 frames of delay, which is quite playable, but all other games I've tried, from wildly different genres like SRPGs, were all super laggy (SF3 for instance came out at 9 frames of delay, disgusting).

Is your experience different?

That's faithful to the physical Saturn, maybe not 9 frames that's too much but certainly some games had 5 frames.

Beetle Saturn supports runahead, but it's quite CPU intensive. My 2017 thread ripper is not able to handle it, which is a shame cause it keeps me from playing the Saturn Garegga.

 

[Valestein]

On that note
Honestly its kinda baffling for a japanese fighting game series, that prided itself on basing characters movesets over actual martial arts, to have taken 10+ years and many game releases later to finally create characters that make use of Judo, Muay Thai and Karate
Literally 3 of the most popular and widely practiced asian martial arts
Yet meme martial arts like Sumo, Aikido, Ninjutsu and fucking Drunken Kung-Fu were all introduced much earlier

My only guess would be that they intentionally avoided them because they were staples of other fighting games. At least Karate and Muay Thai because of Street Fighter 2. Judo may have just been because of animations or something.

I’m a little surprised they never add Ryo Hazuki to the series. Especially since it started as a Virtua Fighter RPG.

They should add Lethwei to a game, it's like Muay Thai but even more brutal, where among other things, headbutting is allowed and to win you have to knockout the other guy.