Completed Let's kill you guys in Armoured Brigade

[tindrli]

if no one object i would like to blitzkrieg as i previously stated

 

[ValeVelKal]

aaannnd I want some other mechanized infantry with me

I got your back man. Move my guys to the orange "Scout" circle, from there either support the assault on the objective or clear the small woodland patch to the northwest, if necessary.

The scouts are for dedicated units that are controlled by Dayyulu. I need you to cross with me . I can cross first and you follow.

 

[Andnjord]

I can cross first and you follow.

You mean like this?

Spoiler

 

[baud]

So if the scouts move to the edge of the woods, I guess my tanks can move just above, ready to support the advance of those brave enough to cross the open field

 

[Dayyālu]

I need basic orders for

sqeecoo
MoistCloister
Strange Fellow
Falksi

And I will try to coordinate your plan in a somewhat-coherent mess. I'm loving this already.

Also, battle ranges here are rather long. If we're talking AT weapons or ATGMS, yer all already in range. Maybe not in killing range.

EDIT:

After testing, two things. The battle is winnable.

For the Italians, at least, and it's quite amusing for SP on the defensive.
Also, more testing on WW2 vintage

Apparently they still work

 

[Strange Fellow]

I can see I'm outnumbered. Well then, once more unto the breach, dear przyjaciele. Be there a place for me and my antiquities in Potato heaven. In other words: charge!

 

[Endemic]

=Also, more testing on WW2 vintage

Apparently they still work

Well the Leopard only has ~140mm of effective frontal armour, and the T-34 is firing 85mm 3BK7, which punches through a maximum of 300mm steel armour. Though there is a rather large disparity in optics and fire control...

 

[tindrli]

 

[sqeecoo]

I literally don't understand anything that's going on but I guess that really simulates a realistic grunt experience. I'll follow where Andnjord leads for the time being!

 

[tindrli]

And i just want an update

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Leo 1 is pretty much a glass cannon designed for defensive, dug-in positions.

 

[ValeVelKal]

And i just want an update

Poland has not yet perished,
So long as we still live.
What the foreign force has taken from us,
We shall with tanks and IFV retrieve.

March, march, Dayyalu,
From Germany to Italy.
Under your command
We shall rejoin the nation.

We'll cross the Vistula, we'll cross the Alps,
We shall be Polish.
Bonaparte has given us the example
Of how we should annex Italy.

 

[tindrli]

I'm gonna go with Vale's plan. So this for starters, I guess?

Spoiler

In a war 95% is just as the dog stated until shit hits the fan. Later on is all about improvisation and survival

 

[Dayyālu]

Hey ho, let's go.

First, music.



(what's with Britons and tank-themed metal)

Spoiler

Ok, let's hope I didn't fuck up too badly.

So, on the Northern section Endemic unload the infantry in safe position, while Tindlri GLORIOUSLY charges forward.

In our mid, everyone takes position in cover and waits for further orders.

South is were we'll get all the action, I presume. If I didn't fuck up too only And gave me a precise location for smoke on mortars, so I'll prep fire for that location. And wait for orders to smoke.

Nothing happens north. After a minute, the mid tanks under And come under cannon fire, but we can't identify the enemy, just the location.
South, a tracked vehicle is identified in a dug-in position and Andnjord's T55 platoon quickly identifies and engages, blowing it up.
We still don't know what it was, but it's FIRST BLOOD. One of the T55s is damaged by aggressive cannon fire and the crew starts to panic, but the vehicle is still battle worthy.

Sadly, it doesn't last. Cannon fire from some unidentified source coming from mid destroys the damaged T55 from And's platoon and one of the SKOT from Moist's platoon. The squad manages to unload, but it has suffered some losses.

Enemy AT fire from center slacks off. They probably don't have identified more targets. We get a tracked vehicle in a dug in position at the entrance of the South village, it's a AMX-12 (a French-made IFV used in limited numbers by the Itas).

I didn't even know that this existed, seriously. "Veicolo Trasporto Truppa e da Combattimento", called in Italy AMX-12 because it can transport 12 people. Seriously.
In baguetteland it's called AMX-13 VCI and I seriously hope a frog comrade will dump some lore, I know jack shit about this one, could have sworn we used M113s until the end of time

Strange Fellow's T34s of GLORY are in position and are engaging merrily the IFVs without return fire. Maybe they don't have AT guns in that area?

At last some action north! Tindrli's T55Us identify a tracked something and quickly relay its position to the mid tanks. Soon focus fire will blow it up. I hope.

South, the AMX blows up in the rain of Polish fire. It survived a staggering amount of shots tho, thanks to its dug-in position.

So, four minutes have elapsed, and most of the units are in the ordered positions. Let's give you an overall view for further orders:

Tindrli's T55s are still advancing, the terrain is shit. Endemic's troops have unloaded and are in cover, quiet and safe and ready.

On mid, we have suffered one loss but all the T55s from Andnjord's and Falksi's platoons are raining fire on the enemy vehicles, with adequate results.
Sqeecoo's SKOTs are waiting quietly, infantry onboard.

South a tad of a mess. Strange Fellow's T34 are happily dumping shells on the enemy unopposed, Vale's SKOTs are in position, and one squad has disembarked and got to cover when they spotted the AMX. Baud's T55s and Moist's SKOTs are in position, despite the loss of a vehicle and a handful of men.

And that's it, I guess. ORDERS FOR THE NEXT FEW MINUTES

 

[Endemic]

Yeah, Italy did buy some AMXs from France. They even put SS11s on them (excuse the blurry photo):

Primarily they were used as APCs, ambulances, command posts etc.

 

[Darth Roxor]

it's a AMX-12 (a French-made IFV)

KURWY CHUJE ŻABOJADY

 

[Andnjord]

Me right now. All I see are pretty fire works and tracers in the sky, it's beautiful but I have no idea what's going on :D

But tactics. Can I get some mortar fire/artillery shelling/air strike/coastal bombardment/tactical nuke on that position? And ready smokes for probably next turn when I'll heroically dash to the 'island' in mid?

In the meantime I'll just sit pretty where I am and pop whatever mole shows up

Anyway, back to the battle at hand. I'll have my platoon (alongside their APCs) try a flanking action, with smoke to cover them while they cross this road.

Ehm...correct me if I'm wrong, but you're positioned North right? Does that mean that you're swinging all the way south to Mid and are abandoning Tindrli?

 

[Endemic]

Ehm...correct me if I'm wrong, but you're positioned North right? Does that mean that you're swinging all the way south to Mid and are abandoning Tindrli?

My bad, I edited the wrong image. Here's the correct one:

 

[ValeVelKal]

I didn't even know that this existed, seriously. "Veicolo Trasporto Truppa e da Combattimento", called in Italy AMX-12 because it can transport 12 people. Seriously.
In baguetteland it's called AMX-13 VCI and I seriously hope a frog comrade will dump some lore, I know jack shit about this one, could have sworn we used M113s until the end of time

Oh, while I did not know Italy had received AMX-13, it is an interesting story.
So it starts in 1945. The French industry is in shamble, their "national" technological know-how is obsolete but France wants to be a Great Power again, which means they needed to have a large army, especially since the French understood they would have to fight for the colonies. So the French solution is to do like the Italians in the 30ies or me with Destroyers in our SG of RTW2 : plenty of cheap, expandable vehicles.

The specificies were a bit strange though. The French understood that tank role would be limited in Indochina , but the one reference they had starting 1947 was the (largely forgotten now, but big at the time) Malagasy Uprising (aka "les événements de Madagascar" if you are the French governement in 1947 ). From that, it was clear that the French would need an air transportable vehicle (to be deployed anywhere in the vast French empire), would not need armor too much, would not need to have the autonomy for a deep penetration, and they did not need a canon TOO big either as they were not supposed to meet too many heavy vehicles. Hence the AMX-13 tank.

The tank was a failure in doctrine vs political reality : it proved unsuited for the big colonial war the French would still have to fight : Indochina Closing Chapter (it arrived too late anyway) and Algeria (too mountaineous). The French did not deploy it in Korea either, and the events in Suez did not go in a way that made them useful. As for the countries who bought those tanks, first of them Israel, they were in a different situation than France and the tanks proved undergunned and underarmored enough to be any good on the battlefield vs modern tanks.

On a other hand, the tank was an incredible piece of engineering : light obviously, low profile, a lot of "features" for the size thanks to the organization of its space & surface that would make the Lufthansa proud, and critically extremely modular for the parts that matter while remaining reliable.

Because, it is another part of the French doctrine, this one successful to this day, the French planners knew France did not have the industrial capacity to compete with USA and USSR, so the plan was to have extremely modular vehicle with which you could do everything you need, saving on production cost and spare parts.

So while the AMX-13 tank was a failure, the AMX-13 APC (called AMX-13 VTT) or IFV (called AMX-13 VCI) was a great success for cheap, reliable vehicle, super easy to maintain, offering infantry a decent protection. Soldiers could burst out from the vehicle from the back but also from the top thanks to slidable armored pannels. Slowly burst out, though.

Of course, by ut the late 70ies it is dated for several reasons : autonomy is still too short, the transported soldiers are in a super-cramped position, which means it is very unpractical for strategic movement. I mean, check this :

It can only carry 10 men + 2 crew, so for your AMX "12" because it carries 12 men, either the crew is counted or Italian soldiers are very short.

In addition, leaving the vehicle is not really fast for obvious reasons, and the vehicle cannot cross rivers or whatnot. Still, very good for the price you paid it. It exported a LOT.

 

[ValeVelKal]

You can already prepare my new SOP :
- Quick, because thinking about it let's use that road that connects our forest to the enemy,
- Do NOT dismount upon being fired upon, because dismounting in the open = death.

Once we have a nice layer of smoke between the road and where the AT shoots came from, I am crossing. Anyone with an IFV or a tank who wants to follow I would appreciate it.

Dismount the second I reach the forest tho (individual dismount for each SKOT please, not "dismount squad")

Edit : Not sure how familiar you are with the game. Your mortar / artillery squad are ready to smoke what I wanted smoked but are waiting for your confirmation now.

 

[Dayyālu]

Edit : Not sure how familiar you are with the game. Your mortar / artillery squad are ready to smoke what I wanted smoked but are waiting for your confirmation now.

Effective mortar fire ammo is limited. Smoke, even more so. I don't fire them without clear confirmation, shit is expensive. I merely got them on position but waited for your order to fire.

It can only carry 10 men + 2 crew, so for your AMX "12" because it carries 12 men, either the crew is counted or Italian soldiers are very short.

Yes

(On their defense, Kroats are 2mts Speesh Marines by average and 99% of Italian soldiers nowadays are Southerners that are kinda small)

 

[Endemic]

(On their defense, Kroats are 2mts Speesh Marines by average and 99% of Italian soldiers nowadays are Southerners that are kinda small)

The average male is significantly taller than he was in the 1970s, and modern soldiers have to carry more gear. That is the main reason why newer APCs like the Boxer are so large.

 

[baud]

need an air transportable vehicle

Are you really sure that the AMX-13 ended up carried by air? I mean at 13 tonnes, it's quite heavy and I don't think France had the capacity to airlift IFVs until the Airbus A400M (or the C-130H bought from the US).

Once we have a nice layer of smoke between the road and where the AT shoots came from, I am crossing. Anyone with an IFV or a tank who wants to follow I would appreciate it.

Dismount the second I reach the forest tho (individual dismount for each SKOT please, not "dismount squad")

Since you seem to have a plan, I'll follow you.

 

[Endemic]

Are you really sure that the AMX-13 ended up carried by air? I mean at 13 tonnes, it's quite heavy and I don't think France had the capacity to airlift IFVs until the Airbus A400M (or the C-130H bought from the US).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transall_C-160

 

[ValeVelKal]

Are you really sure that the AMX-13 ended up carried by air? I mean at 13 tonnes, it's quite heavy and I don't think France had the capacity to airlift IFVs until the Airbus A400M (or the C-130H bought from the US).

Excellent question. The Transall c-160 mentionned by Endemic arrived much later. The French planned to use the Bréguet 763.
I know there were successful tests, I am not sure it was ever transported to operation by a Bréguet, but for the AMX-13 designers it was a done deal that the Bréguet could transport their tank to where it was needed.

In the domain of assumptions now : I would say that « transportability » was in the checklist but over time dropped pretty low in it, given the number of AMX-13 France had those could be pre deployed in the various French territories. The limited transportation capacity(from the Wikipedia article the French military planned to acquiere 30 Breguet 763 but ended with maybe 8, and it is 1 tank max by flight), if any, meant that reinforcement / replacement would be slowly brought in by plane. After all, the French were not expecting to lose a lot of these to enemy fire.