Let's bitch about STEAM! - The Thread!

[Spectacle]

Why would they consider going to the stock market? ... because it would it would let the big boys sell their stakes in the company to become obscenely rich overnight? What's so hard to understand about that?

It's only a matter of time. All the stuff gabe and the other guy may spout about not wanting share holders to interfere in their game development is total bullshit. They are just biding their time so they can make more money when the time comes.

There's no need to use the stock market for that though, if the owners want to cash out they could simply sell the company straight to Activision or EA. They'd probably get a better price than in an IPO, and less hassle.

 

[sea]

Another example that goes in line with Steam's weaselly nature is the blatant lie and misleading when you go to download Steam on their website. It says "Free 1.5MB download", when in reality that's just the downloader, and the real download is much, MUCH larger than that.

The only way to do this would be to update the full installer on the web page every time Steam updates. It's a lot more convenient to just use a downloader program and make sure users get the newest version. Tons and tons of other companies do this as well.

 

[Infinitron]

Thread Killer:
Troika and Looking Glass might very well still exist today if Steam was around (in full force) during their time.

Oh they might? Please tell me again how the recent PC RPG developer, Radon Labs, is doing. You must also be really looking forward to the upcoming STALKER 2 game.

Point taken, though I'm not sure if the comparison with Radon Labs is valid. It was a fairly unknown German company, while Troika and LGS had and have a level of international cult reknown.
As for Stalker...yeah, though we need more information about what exactly happened there.

 

[LordDenton]

Another example that goes in line with Steam's weaselly nature is the blatant lie and misleading when you go to download Steam on their website. It says "Free 1.5MB download", when in reality that's just the downloader, and the real download is much, MUCH larger than that.

The only way to do this would be to update the full installer on the web page every time Steam updates. It's a lot more convenient to just use a downloader program and make sure users get the newest version. Tons and tons of other companies do this as well.

I understand that. However they lie by mentioning 1.5 MB next to "Install Steam" in order to lure people with poor internet connection to download it. Some guy on dial-up might think "1.5 MB? That's not too bad", and when the real download starts he might let it continue simply because he already wasted a few minutes just to get the installer.

 

[sea]

If you have dial-up somehow I doubt digital distribution is the thing for you. And if you happen to be uneducated about Internet connection speeds... well, now you'll learn, about 15 years late I might add.

 

[lefthandblack]

Can you provide details of this "malicious DRM platform"?

I'll just reply with a post I made on another forum about it:

I've read that Valve is working on improving the system so that only changed/new files will be included in a patch, thus mitigating the issue of huge patch sizes. I don't know if this has already been implemented but IMO it's a step in the right direction and I can't see any reason why they would not want to do this as it would be a win/win for everyone involved.

This is a start, but before I would be willing to accept it I would need the following:

- An offline mode that works independent of whether or not the user had jumped through a set of hoops anticipating a net outage as long as the authentication process for the particular game had been completed. In this case the DRM would still have teeth but would not result in a user being locked out of a legitimately purchased product simply because of an unexpected outage.

- No more forced patching for games. I can understand forced patching for the client as they have to stay ahead of hackers/crackers, but for games it is unacceptable to me to be locked out of my purchase if I am in a situation where I do not have the bandwidth available to download a specific patch. Not to mention issues with mod compatibility, etc.

- A visible improvement in customer service. With the amount of money that Valve makes with STEAM there is no excuse for their poor customer service that I can think of except
maybe laziness and or greed.

I still would not like it based on the fact that their EULA basically states that they can terminate your account (and therefore your access to everything that you have already paid for) for any reason or no reason at all. In light of this fact I would probably still wait for sales or other price reductions before making any purchase that required STEAMWORKS, as something that can vanish from my possession at any time is worth considerably less than something that I can maintain access to without the involvement of and the implied threat of a potentially hostile third party.

If they followed my above suggestions AND revised their EULA to something more consumer friendly, I would not have a problem with STEAM at all.

I'll also add that I am waiting with baited breath for the inevitable monthly subscription fee that STEAM users will be charged in order to maintain access to games that they have already paid for. The butthurt is going to be delicious.

TLDR:

 

[Jaesun]

Can you provide details of this "malicious DRM platform"?

I'll just reply with a post I made on another forum about it:

blah blah blah I'm incredibly butthurt about STEAM, so much so I will actually make up lies about it.

Oh OK, that was some quality points you pointed out there.

 

[FeelTheRads]

So what were the lies? All of them? Or you just went and decided everything is a lie?

 

[lefthandblack]

blah blah blah I'm incredibly butthurt about STEAM, so much so I will actually make up lies about it.

I'll grant you that the subscription thing is speculation on my part, though I do feel that is inevitable as Gabe is going to die/retire at some point.
What do you think would happen if he sold his company to say... EA?
There are no lies however, everything in my quoted post is fact.

Oh OK, that was some quality points you pointed out there.

 

[Cassidy]

He even moved this to GG in the hopes it would be forgotten, FeelTheRads.

I don't understand so much defensiveness about the subject. It looks almost like those suckers who joined Scientology and then defend it to their last breath.

The people criticizing Steam or trolling its fanboys shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the service if you truly have no issue with it.

 

[Infinitron]

So what were the lies? All of them? Or you just went and decided everything is a lie?

For one thing, you can disable auto-patching of a game in Steam.

 

[Jaesun]

So what were the lies? All of them? Or you just went and decided everything is a lie?

- No more forced patching for games. I can understand forced patching for the client as they have to stay ahead of hackers/crackers, but for games it is unacceptable to me to be locked out of my purchase if I am in a situation where I do not have the bandwidth available to download a specific patch. Not to mention issues with mod compatibility, etc.

This can be turned off.

- A visible improvement in customer service. With the amount of money that Valve makes with STEAM there is no excuse for their poor customer service that I can think of except maybe laziness and or greed.

What in the fuck does that even mean? All I know was a while back I bought Runaway: A Road Adventure and it would fail to install. I sent an e-mail to Steam Customer Service. In a few hours I got a reply explaining exactly how to solve my installation problem. And it all worked fine after that.

The offline mode has always been reported as shit/not working. IIRC it's better now. I never use it. So I don't know.

The termination of your account.. meh. Whatever. That is very situation.

My original question was: Can you provide details of this "malicious DRM platform"?

Still waiting....

 

[lefthandblack]

For one thing, you can disable auto-patching of a game in Steam.

No you can't. Not if you want to play it. If STEAM detects a net connection the first thing that it does is phone home to a server to authenticate and check for updates. If it finds an update for the game that you are trying to play you can't play until it is downloaded and installed. If you buy a game off the shelf, it does the same thing the first time you install it. If the game you are installing requires a patch that is bigger than your bandwidth cap, you are screwed.

 

[Metro]

to whoever split off the thread.

 

[mck]

In my opinion, Steam is a digital download service.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

I actually thought Codex where Gayben cocksuckers before. Guess I got the wrong idea.

 

[lefthandblack]

This can be turned off.

See my reply to Infinitron.

What in the fuck does that even mean? All I know was a while back I bought Runaway: A Road Adventure and it would fail to install. I sent an e-mail to Steam Customer Service. In a few hours I got a reply explaining exactly how to solve my installation problem. And it all worked fine after that.

At the time of that post Valve had an F rating with the BBB, I just checked it again and they have been upgraded to a C -. I guess that's progress, but there are well documented cases of people being screwed out of hundreds/thousands of dollars of purchases over a glitch. Paypal and STEAM seem to be a particularly dangerous combination.

The termination of your account.. meh. Whatever. That is very situation.

From the STEAM EULA:


9. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES

A. DISCLAIMERS.

THE ENTIRE RISK ARISING OUT OF USE OR PERFORMANCE OF STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND MERCHANDISE REMAINS WITH YOU, THE USER. VALVE EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS (I) ANY WARRANTY FOR STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, AND (II) ANY COMMON LAW DUTIES WITH REGARD TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, AND THE MERCHANDISE, INCLUDING DUTIES OF LACK OF NEGLIGENCE AND LACK OF WORKMANLIKE EFFORT. STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, THE MERCHANDISE, AND ANY INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS, "WITH ALL FAULTS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NONINFRINGEMENT. ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT THAT MAY BE PROVIDED IN SECTION 2-312(3) OF THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE AND/OR IN ANY OTHER COMPARABLE STATE STATUTE IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED. ALSO, THERE IS NO WARRANTY OF TITLE, INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT, OR AUTHORITY IN CONNECTION WITH STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, MERCHANDISE OR INFORMATION AVAILABLE IN CONNECTION THEREWITH. THIS SECTION WILL APPLY TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW.

C. NO GUARANTEES.

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).

10. EXCLUSIVE REMEDIES

A. EXCLUSIVE REMEDY -- STEAM AND THE SOFTWARE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY FOR ANY DISPUTE WITH VALVE WITH REGARD TO STEAM OR THE SOFTWARE IS TO DISCONTINUE USE OF STEAM AND CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

13. TERM AND TERMINATION

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.

 

[Infinitron]

For one thing, you can disable auto-patching of a game in Steam.

No you can't. Not if you want to play it. If STEAM detects a net connection the first thing that it does is phone home to a server to authenticate and check for updates. If it finds an update for the game that you are trying to play you can't play until it is downloaded and installed.

In that case, better make use of that offline mode.

Srsly though, it's a matter of getting what you pay for. I have a policy of never buying a game that costs more than 10 bucks off of Steam, and usually less than that. Maybe I'd feel more butthurt about Steam's disadvantages if I was sinking major amounts of cash into it.

 

[lefthandblack]

Srsly though, it's a matter of getting what you pay for. I have a policy of never buying a game that costs more than 10 bucks off of Steam, and usually less than that. Maybe I'd feel more butthurt about Steam's disadvantages if I was sinking major amounts of cash into it.

I'd say that that is a good policy. If Steam works for you that's great. The major problem I have with Steam and Steam's more militant fanboys is that they both make the assumption that a fast, unmetered internet connection is available to everyone. It's not, and the forced patching is my main complaint. I can grudgingly live with the activation, after all I've had to do that with software that costs thousands more than a PC game. The forced patching makes it extremely inconvenient for me at best and almost impossible at worst depending on the particular game.

 

[Bruticis]

I actually thought Codex where Gayben cocksuckers before. Guess I got the wrong idea.

Kodex is anti-whateveriscurrentlypopular with the mainstream.

 

[Jaesun]

Not anymore. Look at the steam diversity codex group and see how many bought and actually played Skyturd. You won't see that shit in my profile.

 

[Cassidy]

Not anymore. Look at the steam diversity codex group and see how many bought and actually played Skyturd.

This is the key to understanding Codex 2.0

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

The people criticizing Steam or trolling its fanboys shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the service if you truly have no issue with it.

It doesn't. I just find it interesting that the same "the sky is falling" arguments have been repeated for the last decade, and yet the sky has not fallen. I keep being told that I'm just renting my games, yet 8 years after buying Half-Life 2, I still have access to it, and haven't had to pay a cent more than I paid when I preordered it in October of 2004. I keep being told that I'm going to -- somehow, some way -- lose access to all my games and yet 8 years on, I still have ready access to all of them. I keep being told that the Steam client is malicious bloatware, yet it's feature rich enough that I use it everyday. I guess I keep waiting for all these horrible things to happen to me that are supposed to happen because I use Steam, and yet nothing bad ever does.

As far as I can tell, most of the complaints against Steam are purely hypothetical (They COULD ban your account. They COULD shutdown the service and you'd lose access to your games.). Since none of these hypotheticals have come true, I'm inclined to just dismiss the hew and cry as so much butthurt.

 

[Shannow]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the issues with mods and the hoops it makes you jump through if you want certain not neccessarily current patches.

That's good for you, Infi. The issue has never been that many of you don't feel bothered by Steam's disadvantages (or that you even see some as advantages). The issue is that as soon as somebody mentions that he's unwilling to infect his system with Steam, the apologists come out of the woodwork, pretending as if it's absolutely inconceivable that somebody might see something wrong with Steam and in the worst cases try to peer pressure them into using it anyway. Though the guy who tried to convince me that Wallmart would burn my home and my DVDs with it if I wrote something bad about them on the net, was kinda funny.
Cassidy was reminded of Scientology. I'm more reminded of smokers.

Use Steam as much as you like. I couldn't care less. Just don't bother me whenever I mention that I won't infect my system with it and don't pretend you don't exactly know the issues many have with steam.

EDIT: QED

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Gaben informed me to summon his lackey Multi-headed Cow

Gaben doesn't need a defense force. Steam speaks for itself with superior sales and service~~~~