KOTOR an RPG?

[Constipated Craprunner]

Based on this ( http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7126 ) discussion.

I think it is, obviously, if not as much as Fallout.

 

[Vault Dweller]

No, it's another one of them popular adventure games with RPG elements. Before somebody else asks, WarCraft 3 isn't an RPG either. :wink:


Thanks for the link, it's priceless.

baldur's gate is a completely diferent genre, but is the closest you will get to the quality of fallout and you will feel right at home with the combat which is very similar to fallout (just think of it as real time fallout combat with some added tricks).

I hope to never have to read anything so utterly devoid of intelligence as that, EVER AGAIN.

Edit: another one

You can't say that BG isn't an RPG because of it's combat system. Neither because your choices didn't always affect the world (try playing with a reputation of 1). It was definitely an RPG, even if the interactivity was shallow. You received quests depending on what you had done before, you had stats, an inventory, a dialogue system that sometimes depended on your stats (not always, story dialogue was often scripted). Sure, I was disappointed by the lack of interactivity, but the game was still a great experience, and it was an RPG. Not a hardcore RPG like those early oldschool ones, but still.

 

[Lasakon]

What the hell is an RPG? I use to have it closely defined until I went to this site and now I have no idea what an RPG is. That and I'm starting to hate everything.

 

[Transcendent One]

I know, it really opens your eyes to the fact that everything is crap, doesn't it?

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Wow, there's a lot of great stuff in that thread. For example, one guy thinks BioWare made Planescape: Torment. Nice to see Rosh still schooling the n00bz.

 

[Transcendent One]

It's painful to see that, because I really like PS:T. When will the n00bs learn the difference between "published by", "developed by", "uses the ? engine", etc.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I personally disdain genres.

 

[Spazmo]

The question isn't so much "Is KotOR an RPG?" but rather "How many idiots can you cram into the NMA boards?"

 

[EvoG]

This thing is the exact same thing people over at the adventure forums go through seemingly monthly.

"What is an adventure game?"

The crazy thing is, is for most people both here and over there, an RPG and an old skool Adventure Game is essentially, to them, how it was 15 years ago. An RPG has a party, lots of stats, turn based combat and is top down. An adventure game is point and click, no combat, inventory puzzles and lots of narrative...also its 3rd person, ideally fixed camera, even more ideally ( to these people ) 2D.

This just doesn't apply today. You CAN find games like that, albeit less so today...but to say any one game is any more of an RPG/adv. game over another is kinda reacing nowadays. If your litmus is the 'traditional' version of these genres, then fine. But otherwise, these lines are becoming so blurred, its rather senseless.

Beyond Good and Evil is highly regarded over there with the adventure gamers, despite going against everything that they would argue IS an adventure game. It has action, full 3D camera in 3rd person and even minigames. It has far less puzzle solving than a traditional adv. game...but does have great narrative...great cutscenes. So who the hell knows right? Games back when were the way they were mainly due to techincal limitations of computers...with rpgs developers looking to bridge the gap between PnP and crpg's merely by having the computers roll the dice and crunch the numbers. I'd argue today that System Shock is more of an RPG than any other classified "RPG", merely by the fact that I'm IN the role of the protaganist, with my healthy dose of inventory managment and stat monitoring, conducting for the most part HOW I want my character to grow. Take that forumla, throw in a populated world, more freedom to explore and some dialogue and you've matched any rpg out there, minus the TB and 'top down-edness'.

I know I'm sorta tangenting here, but I wish for once everyone, like Exitium proclaimed, we would get past the specifics of 'genre', and simply wish for games that offer freedom of exploration, interesting story, character(protaganist) growth and simply be fun to play. This would pretty much sum up what both rpg'ers and adv. gamers want and we can be done with it.

No more pining for the 'good ole days'.

Cheers

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Wow, there's a lot of great stuff in that thread. For example, one guy thinks BioWare made Planescape: Torment. Nice to see Rosh still schooling the n00bz.

That's hardly impressive. Check this baby out. Do a search for HongKongDrifter and see his post. Scary shit, uhn?

 

[TFVanguard]

No, it's another one of them popular adventure games with RPG elements. Before somebody else asks, WarCraft 3 isn't an RPG either. :wink:

And.. huh? Let's see, it's got character generation, turn-based combat, tactical control, engrossing character, dialog trees, multiple endings, and very very few 'puzzle' situations. You may not like Knights of the Old Republic, but to say that it's then somehow not an RPG is pretty much a bold-faced lie.

 

[Spazmo]

KOTOR has turn based combat?

...

So your alleged work on Daggerfall... janitorial?

 

[TFVanguard]

KOTOR has turn based combat?

Pause and play. You can pause at any time with the space bar (on PC), and then issue commands. If you pay attention, you can see how the phases of each turn play out.

So your alleged work on Daggerfall... janitorial?

Wow, that's so funny.. I'm dying here.. crapped my pants and all that. I did, really! Man, the jokes in eigth grade were so great.. thanks for reminding me what it was like.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

KOTOR has turn based combat?

Pause and play. You can pause at any time with the space bar (on PC), and then issue commands. If you pay attention, you can see how the phases of each turn play out.

So your alleged work on Daggerfall... janitorial?

Wow, that's so funny.. I'm dying here.. crapped my pants and all that. I did, really! Man, the jokes in eigth grade were so great.. thanks for reminding me what it was like.

FOR GOD SAKES U IDIOT

 

[Spazmo]

Pause and play is NOT the same as full TB. Pause and play is a massive fudging that occurs when developers realise that full RT doesn't work in RPGs (action RPGs or those with action combat aside since they're action-y). If you want more... use the search function. It's been discussed endlessly.

As for the other points for which you praise KOTOR, they've also been discussed endlessly. Let's just say your standards for a role playing game are clearly much lower than ours.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Pause and play. You can pause at any time with the space bar (on PC), and then issue commands. If you pay attention, you can see how the phases of each turn play out.

Which would make it phase based, not turn based. Not the same thing, is it?

 

[merry andrew]

KOTOR has turn based combat?

Yes. Even in pause & play, the characters take "turns". So it's "turn"-based. It is based around turns. Honest, even that Tommy Tallarico guy from Electric Playground and Judgment Day said that he didn't like KOTOR because the combat was turn-based.

Anyway, I think that there should be distinction, because they're both turn-based, yet so different.

 

[Transcendent One]

*sigh*
KotOR is based on personal initiative rounds for individual characters. It is NOT turn based. How many times will this have to be discussed.

 

[TFVanguard]

Pause and play is NOT the same as full TB.

Turn based means things happen in turns. Sorry, it's not the early 80's anymore, so a new system was developed. Personally, I like the 'pause turn' aspect more, since I can let those 'my 10th level warrior against two kobolds' combats just happen and drag the entire game down to micromanage a non-challenging combat.

The only difference is that the computer queues up commands in phases, but does not stop at the end of each turn. This allows for much more realistic combat handling as well - so I'm very surprised that these legendary grognards are so against it.

But, using a 'stop time' approach like this doesn't stop making something an RPG any more than switch from d20 to GURPS stops making you play paper-and-pencil role-playing.

As for the other points for which you praise KOTOR, they've also been discussed endlessly. Let's just say your standards for a role playing game are clearly much lower than ours.

Perhaps different. But lower? Give me a break. Elitism at it's finest and most insipid. I judge things on if I enjoy them, and my tastes are quite wide and varied. I played Ultimas 1-7 endlessly, loved them, and also loved Final Fantasy X-2. I'm not automatically better than you because I liked one game or another, and you most certainly aren't better than me for your own tastes in RPGs.

 

[TFVanguard]

*sigh*
KotOR is based on personal initiative rounds for individual characters. It is NOT turn based. How many times will this have to be discussed.

I know how the engine works internally. You don't. There are turns broken down into phases. Comparing the timing to what's listed in d20 Star Wars, and you'll start to see how it is put together. It's pretty much that system, only slightly looser for the medium.

 

[merry andrew]

*sigh*
KotOR is based on personal initiative rounds for individual characters. It is NOT turn based. How many times will this have to be discussed.

That makes sense. Either way, KOTOR seems turn-based and will get categorized as such.

 

[EvoG]

Yea, I have to side with TF here, I grew up with RPG's some of you guys may not have even heard of such as Legacy of the Ancients and Wrath of Denethenor (cool pics http://crimdom.net/wrath.html ), loved all of the Ultimas, Bards Tales, Might and Magics, entire 'gold box' series(and the other colored boxes), wasteland and fallout...it goes on...and I enjoyed playing KotoR, I didn't think I would. So what you enjoy does not paint you into a category...

...with that said, KotoR is not traditional TB, so little point in arguing. It not being TB does not make it less of an RPG though. Moreso the rather simplistic dialogue would make it less of an RPG than its combat.

But who cares if its an "RPG" or not...you either liked it or not. Meh.


Cheers

 

[TFVanguard]

Moreso the rather simplistic dialogue would make it less of an RPG than its combat.

As opposed to 'JOB', right?

 

[Transcendent One]

In turn based, things move one at a time. The concept has been around since Ancient India and probably long before that. If you don't like it, good for you, this isn't about your shitty personal tastes. Don't take a new system and pass it as something already existing and different.

 

[EvoG]

Moreso the rather simplistic dialogue would make it less of an RPG than its combat.

As opposed to 'JOB', right?

God, I'm afraid to ask..."JOB"?


(watch it will come to me when I post this)


And just to clarify, I didn't mean that KotoR wasn't an RPG due to simplistic dialogue, but rather if any points were to be addressed towards its un-rpg-ed-ness, I'd argue that over the combat first....though whats his names dialogue was fucking hilarious...um, the assassin droid.

Cheers