Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failures with Pillars of Eternity

[Viata]

Hey that’s a cool idea, let’s rate holy books. I rate the Bible a strong 6/10.

I rate it 6.66/10, but some are just 6.16/10.

 

[Roguey]

She looks like a 12-year-old boy here, so

I will readily admit that is the kind of look that gets my attention.

 

[Lacrymas]

Well, this thread went places.

 

[Desiderius]

Hey that’s a cool idea, let’s rate holy books. I rate the Bible a strong 6/10.

Holy books are, as it happened, books.

Same topic you were on about. Septuagint and KJV are famous (and rare) examples of collaborative writing done well. If you want to strike them out you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The Bible shouldn't be translated to be "coherent". Is a Holy Book, not juvenile fiction. This comparison is totally out of place.

No it should. Churches that don’t suck. Talking empirically. Also off-topic.

Here’s what is on topic:

I’m not talking about THE BIBLE. I’m talking about the authorship of the KJV. It’s a fascinating story, you should look it up. I mean, they even had a fag in charge, so current year should eat that shit up.

Writing by committee requires a strong shared vision to not suck. KJV had that. Deadfire didn’t.

 

[biggestboss]

I will readily admit that is the kind of look that gets my attention.

Updated my journal

 

[Butter]

She looks like a 12-year-old boy here, so

I will readily admit that is the kind of look that gets my attention.

Yeah, hypocivilized is more fuckable than hypercivilized, if you take my meaning. For those for whom fucking is more than a mere abstraction.

Blacked.com

 

[santino27]

Contrary to received wisdom most Pillars characters aren't bad. They're well grounded in the setting, they have motivations, conflicts, and character development that also proceeds from it, they have distinct, relatable personalities and voices, and we get to experience a part of their personal vision quest -- whether completed or not -- with them.

Here's the final, definitive ranking so we can stop talking about it:

Top tier: Zahua, Eder, Sagani
Mid tier: Pallegina, Aloth, Devil of Caroc, Hiravias, Kana Rua
Shit tier: Durance, GM, Maneha

I'm three pages too late, but...

Top tier: Zahua, Sagani
Mid-Tier: Eder, Devil, Durance
Low tier: Grieving Mother, Kana, Aloth, Hiravias, Pallegina
Shit tier: Maneha

I quite liked the Devil for what she was, Zahua was (imo) the most interesting companion in the series, and Sagani was a good mix of contributing party-member/interesting ties to the backlore of the world/mature actual adult.

(Granted, some of Sagani's appeal for me may have been because I was so tired of the Bioware character tropes where every companion has mommy/daddy issues that have to be resolved by the player.)

But anyway, back to Roguey outing themselves.

Edit: Pallegina is so boring I originally forgot to include her on this list.

 

[santino27]

Something more to consider is just how important the story is in this kind of game.

The perhaps primary value of the medium is that you can tell an expansive story with tons of characters for a relatively small penny. Sure, there are mechanics fags (I'm sort a mild case) but most of the people are going to be in it for the story and the characters.

When you then fail the most in these two critically important areas then you have massive fucking problems. The story is what is supposed to be pulling people in and keeping them engaged but here it is the opposite. People get bored by the story and dialogue; for Deadfire a lot of people are even actively repulsed by the companions.

They have gotten better in most departments at Obsidian over time. The art they produce now is often really beautiful, level/area design is competent and their games are no longer buggy messes. Their competitive advantage though, writing, has driven over the edge of a cliff.

They used to have some of the best writers in the industry (if not the best) and what do they have now? Bottom tier valley girls? How the fuck did it end up like this?! Why didn't they treat their most important team better? How did they manage to scare away every single good writer they had and why didn't they spend money on hiring good new ones instead of going for the really cheap option?

It is fucking mind boggling.

FWIW, I think the talent pool for game writers is fairly shallow, so after losing some good ones, I'm not sure replacing them was going to be easy. To your point, it's also pretty likely Feargus made lowball offers too, unless they were family members.

 

[Atchodas]

POE1 Companions are like :

Top tier : Eder , because he makes shitty jokes instead of whining
Lower tier : Aloth well he is a fucking scrub but Leaden Key is interesting part of the game
Sacrifice to Skaen tier : Devil
Durance tier : I kill him for the staff
Rest : fuck them.

 

[Israfael]

He has repeatedly emphasised that Pillars is not the game he wanted to make, he made what he thought he promised and what he thought people wanted.

Did you actually read what I wrote? If he was "I didn't want to do this anyway", why even do it in the first place if you are an honest guy? (and I'm pretty sure there'd be a queue of ambitious designers lining up to do the supposed followup to the IE classics). BUT it wasn't even the thing I was talking about! I was focusing on one aspect of the game (which is 100% his doing) - the game systems. As I said, I don't think anyone wanted to get a hate pie with "fuck you, 3.5ed!!" written on top of it with feces and god knows what. And in any case, why noname PF:KM devs actually do surveys and ask people what do they actually want but some autistic 56%-er with much larger reach and resource base can't do it?

 

[Alphard]

My take on char ranking

Good : Durance
Somewhat good: GM, DOC
Mediocre: Kana Rua, Sagani ( altough her quest is sleep inducing)
Somewhat bad : Aloth, Eder
Shit : pallegina, hiravias

 

[overly excitable young man]

Good: Durance, Pallegina, Eder

Medium: Kana Rua, Sagani

Bad: GM, Aloth, Hiravias

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Hey that’s a cool idea, let’s rate holy books. I rate the Bible a strong 6/10.

I rate Das Kapital 2/10

 

[overly excitable young man]

The quran actually was not that redundant. 3/10

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

Did you actually read what I wrote? If he was "I didn't want to do this anyway", why even do it in the first place if you are an honest guy? (and I'm pretty sure there'd be a queue of ambitious designers lining up to do the supposed followup to the IE classics).

It's a job.

 

[santino27]

Beyond Good and Evil, 8/10.

 

[Prime Junta]

The quran actually was not that redundant. 3/10

The Qur'an is way better than 3/10, it's an easy 8/10 just for consistency and style. I also liked the bit about the ant.

 

[Prime Junta]

Hey that’s a cool idea, let’s rate holy books. I rate the Bible a strong 6/10.

I rate Das Kapital 2/10

I rate the Constitution of the United States of America

/10.

 

[Butter]

Mein Kampf - 88/10.

 

[Lacrymas]

Der Einzige und sein Eigentum /10

1st edition D&D /

 

[ItsChon]

He took our money to make the game that HE likes, not what they promised and what people wanted

He has repeatedly emphasised that Pillars is not the game he wanted to make, he made what he thought he promised and what he thought people wanted.

- He prefers TB combat
- He prefers classless systems
- He prefers low-fantasy, grounded, historical or history-based settings

If he had made his dream game even vaguely to scratch that itch, it would've been a Darklands spiritual successor, not an IE one.

Some retarded ass shit I'm reading here. If this is the game he wanted to make, why the fuck didn't he just make it? Why sign on and plaster your name onto something that you don't believe in. I have no sympathy for this clown and the trainwreck he created.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

In terms of writing:
Fallout 4 < Fallout 3 < Fallout NV < Qur'an < New Testament < Principia Discordia < Fallout 2 < Fallout

 

[Lacrymas]

I see this thread has run its course.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

i just think PoE had the Kickstarter craze behind it combined with nostalgia, while PoE2 came back down to normal levels.Kingmaker sold well because of the Pathfinder system wich people had been waiting on a good PF set game for a long while. Case closed imo.

 

[Lacrymas]

It's definitely not that, it might have had only a very limited effect but that's it. I think this thread showed that the most likely hypothesis, given the evidence, is that PoE1's very weak opening had the largest effect, and everything else (which is quite a lot) just adds on top of that. But you do you, buddy.

There are some other factors that contribute to the opening that I don't think were mentioned - a lot of people might be inexperienced with party-based RPGs, so the system could've overwhelmed them at the start. The difficulty might also have been a problem, especially if people are newbies and started at a too high difficulty for them, that bear in the cave couldn't have helped matters.