Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failures with Pillars of Eternity

[Prime Junta]

it was so irrelevant they based the sequel on it?

Ex post facto. Also look how great that turned out.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Hot take: no one would give a shit about GM if she wasn't a hot waifu material.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's the coldest take ever. Here's a hot take: no-one would give a shit about Durance if he wasn't hot husbando material.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

That's the coldest take ever. Here's a hot take: no-one would give a shit about Durance if he wasn't hot husbando material.

Too bad that the ones that like him aren't confined to a particular sex or sexual orientation. Not that I buy the whole waifu-ism being behind GM's popularity. Besides those that enjoy either of them with a critical mind, it's all a matter of people fetishizing MCA's work.

 

[Volrath]

Imagine shitting on the only worthwhile thing the entire pillows franchise has given us. Imagine thinking Durance of all fucking things is an example of bad writing.

Just how fucking cucked in the head could you even be?

 

[Lacrymas]

That's the coldest take ever. Here's a hot take: no-one would give a shit about Durance if he wasn't hot husbando material.

Too bad that the ones that like him aren't confined to a particular sex or sexual orientation. Not that I buy the whole waifu-ism being behind GM's popularity. Besides those that enjoy either of them with a critical mind, it's all a matter of people fetishizing MCA's work.

That was a joke ;d my point was that a hot take is a (hopefully true) opinion/perspective that not everyone shares.

 

[Trashos]

GM was not overwritten at all. Durance might be a little overwritten due to the contrast with the rest of the game, but as far as I recall he was not edited by MCA. Still a great character too.

I don't remember Pallegina's quest, but most of the companions had everything to do with the central themes. The execution was lacking, not the companion concepts.

 

[Prime Junta]

I don't remember Pallegina's quest

It was a thrilling epic about trade negotiations. Straight out of the fecund mind of the Sawyer. Almost as exciting as the opening of The Phantom Menace.

Spoiler

I guess Josh really, really wanted to make it clear that the Vailian Republics are mercantile republics.

 

[Butter]

The ranger bitch had nothing to do with the story or themes.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

GM was not overwritten at all. Durance might be a little overwritten due to the contrast with the rest of the game, but as far as I recall he was not edited by MCA. Still a great character too.

I don't remember Pallegina's quest, but most of the companions had everything to do with the central themes. The execution was lacking, not the companion concepts.

The concepts in themselves are meaningless if the execution is shit. Eder for example was quite the bland character, yet he became a fan favorite because of the way in which he was portrayed (even considering his lackluster character quest).

 

[Lacrymas]

Hot take: Eder is boring and severely overrated.

 

[Prime Junta]

Contrary to received wisdom most Pillars characters aren't bad. They're well grounded in the setting, they have motivations, conflicts, and character development that also proceeds from it, they have distinct, relatable personalities and voices, and we get to experience a part of their personal vision quest -- whether completed or not -- with them.

Here's the final, definitive ranking so we can stop talking about it:

Top tier: Zahua, Eder, Sagani
Mid tier: Pallegina, Aloth, Devil of Caroc, Hiravias, Kana Rua
Shit tier: Durance, GM, Maneha

 

[Lacrymas]

Top tier: Durance
Mid tier: Pallegina, Aloth = Hiravias, Zahua, GM, Sagani, Eder. In order of least shit to most shit.
Shit tier: Devil of Caroc, Kana Rua, Maneha. Same order.

It's not an achievement to be as mundane as humanly possible

 

[S.torch]

locking himself in a room with a brief and a word count and coming up with three times the requested amount of text and two characters completely out of tune with the rest of the game.

This maybe surprising, but this is how creative works goes sometimes. You decide to write a thing, and then you write a ton of text because there is not a mathematic formula on how long a character should be for being interesting.

He didn't seem burned out by the time of PoE but became so during it and Tyranny's development.

He make the setting for Tyranny, which was the most interesting thing. But he wasn't in charge.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

In no particular order,
Top tier: Durance, Zahua
Mid tier: Eder, Aloth, Kana Rua, Sagani
Low tier: Hiravias, Pallegina
Shit tier: Devil of Caroc, Maneha, Grieving Mother

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Top tier: Eder, Devil of Caroc, Hiravias
Mid tier: Kana Rua, GM, Durance, Aloth, Zahua
Shit tier: Sagani, Maneha, Pallegina

 

[Lacrymas]

Hot take: people hate Pallegina just because she's black and written by Sawyer.

 

[Butter]

Hot take: people hate Pallegina just because she's black and written by Sawyer.

Is that not enough?

 

[Trashos]

Pallegina was the worst written companion in the vanilla game and it was not even close.

OK, I am facing the problem that I don't remember as much as I would need to about PoE in order to have a very insightful conversation. I played it quite a bit, now I have forgotten almost everything about it. However, there are some conclusions I had reached that I still recall.

PoE1 had 2 main themes. 1) What if we can be assured of nothing? (ie, what if the grounds on which we build our motivations are false/not very stable?) 2) Our concept of and attitude towards authority. I remember less about the latter, because I only realized it after I was done with the game.

I am pretty sure that all companions were connected to one or both themes in some way. That's as far as I can help currently.

 

[S.torch]

I am facing the problem that I don't remember as much as I would need to about PoE in order to have a very insightful conversation.

You remember correctly that GM and Durance were one of the best companions. Thats enough.

 

[Lacrymas]

Let's not get into the 500th discussion about PoE's story and themes (both of which are lacking or non-existent), we've had enough of that.

 

[Prime Junta]

This maybe surprising, but this is how creative works goes sometimes. You decide to write a thing, and then you write a ton of text because there is not a mathematic formula on how long a character should be for being interesting.

Working on a game isn't like writing the Great American Novel. You have to collaborate, with the other writers, the artists, the level designers, the programmers. If you don't you end up with a clusterfuck.

This was a problem with Pillars generally -- it has a lot of bits that fit together poorly, Tim's stronghold is another prominent example. But at least the other characters do cohere with each other and the story, such as it is.

He make the setting for Tyranny, which was the most interesting thing. But he wasn't in charge.

Do you have a citation for this? 'Cuz it's contrary to my (limited) understanding of the development of the game.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Black chicks with afros are hot.

 

[S.torch]

Working on a game isn't like writing the Great American Novel.

Writing is writing both in a novel and in a game. What I'm saying could even be applied to the rest of the artists from other aspects such as music and the visuals. If you reduce the writing, it's like telling the artist not to put so many details in his drawings or telling the musician not to work so much on his pieces. And is curious that you think otherwise because you said in the beginning of this thread that Sawyer should make the game he want to make, just like the guys of Disco Elysium.

Do you have a citation for this?

Is in the credits of the game itself. In the Design section.


He is credited for the "original world and story design". Not for any lead position or even main narrative design.
He also said it on Twitter.

 

[Prime Junta]

Writing is writing both in a novel and in a game. What I'm saying could even be applied to the rest of the artists from other aspects such as music and the visuals. If you reduce the writing, it's like telling the artist not to put so many details in his drawings or telling the musician not to work so much on his pieces.

Collaborative writing is not like individual writing. It's like playing in a band as opposed to singing solo. You can't just drag in a church organ and start playing a war requiem if everybody else is playing Dixieland.

And is curious that you think otherwise because you said in the beginning of this thread that Sawyer should make the game he want to make, just like the guys of Disco Elysium.

What does that have to do with anything? Obviously Chris also should do what he loves. That does not mean (1) agreeing to work on a project he doesn't love and then (2) locking yourself in your office to do your writing all by your lonesome and refusing to collaborate with the others working on it.