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Eternity Josh Sawyer reflects on his failures with Pillars of Eternity

luj1

You're all shills
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I really liked the hwrpa-dwrp names but if anything POE1's writing and music and tone was too calm, sensible, etc.

Could've done with more zany stuff like Vithracks.

Eh. Aside from having a spider head (instead of a squid head) you do realize vithracks = illithid? Also, fampyrs = vampires, xaurips = kobolds, godlikes = planetouched, gûls = ghouls, etc.

Very low-effort worldbuilding.
 
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Lord Andre

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Maybe Sawyer should've just cloned BG2 like the public asked him too. Down the road, if enough money were made, he could've asked daddy Feargus for his own game and implement whatever vision he wanted.

But no, he had to graft his own shit unto what should've been a straight up clone and ended up with Ghostbusters 2016.

I said I'd never buy an Obsidian game after that and I haven't. Perhaps more like me than I thought. And now Sawyer is sadface...

a9ZHwET.gif
 

Desolate Dancer

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Maybe Sawyer should've just cloned BG2 like the public asked him too. Down the road, if enough money were made, he could've asked daddy Feargus for his own game and implement whatever vision he wanted.

But no, he had to graft his own shit unto what should've been a straight up clone and ended up with Ghostbusters 2016.

I said I'd never buy an Obsidian game after that and I haven't. Perhaps more like me than I thought. And now Sawyer is sadface...
Lord Andre got it right.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Gandalf isn't a mage, as evidenced by his failure to ever cast fireballs and cloudkill and murder everything! He's almost certainly some kind of cleric/thief with a couple magic wands larping as a wizard.

Cept he did. Magic, at least wizard magic, is reactive and environmental in LOTR and not specifically requiring reagents. It's a point he makes when the Fellowship tries to cross the mountain pass before Moria. Gimli bitches asking why Gandalf isn't melting all the snow blocking their path and he replies that he needs something to do that with, and apparently something proportional to the act, as the firewood they brought wasn't enough for that but he was able to start a fire with it when no one else could get one going by just touching his staff to one of the logs.

Another from the Hobbit is when they're hiding from the huge army of wolves in trees he starts picking pine cones and firing them off aflame like fireworks to land on wolves and starts setting a bunch on fire, which then backfires when Orcs arrive and use the patches of fire he's started to build pyres around the trees everyone's hiding in to try to smoke them out.

There's also the physical exhaustion aspect he runs into trying to magically block a door in Moria and the check that the Balrog attempts to defeat his spell with almost killed him if it had succeeded and how he can't do many things when called upon because he says the spells require preparation in a Vancian manner.

Regardless of how it works, magic ala typical wizard use seems to be done in a way to prevent them simply standing around waving their hands and murdering all in their path and for a sword and physical action to be required, if only to fill in the times in between when magic is unavailable.

I wish more games had LotR style Gandalf magic instead of D&D style glass cannon wizards.
 

AdamReith

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
A wizard is never late. That should be a thing too.

I'm reading the Malazar series right now and they have the proper power level for mages, basicaly they are worth about ten thousand fighters each.
 

Trashos

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A million copies is something very few good RPGs have ever achieved. Easier to get a million if you create a muh cinematique RPG with romances, fake choices and trash mobs. Harder if you are trying to make an Arcanum or Fallout. Most of the 'Golden Age' RPGs failed to hit a million in the first year of release - some of them only came close years later through long-term word of mouth. Hence, it would be nonsense to set out to create a spiritual successor to BG, or Divinity:Original Sin, and expect to sell 1m+ copies. I don't think Obsidian and Larian ever expected it - and were pleasantly surprised. The problem with Deadfire was that this was taken as a baseline of sales potential.

Beyond POE and more generally, I would say anyone trying to make an old school RPG should look to hit that 250k-500k window and budget appropriately - which is what it seems like Owlcat did!

For POE specifically, I imagine that, yes, BG nostalgia inflated P1 sales hugely, and disappointment with P1 (of whatever stripe) impacted P2 sales. I'm not sure how PKM2 would do, though. Not everyone pirates a game, plays it for hours, and then decides whether to purchase it. A lot of people buy shit on Steam sales then never touch it, and I wonder how exactly those people decide to get sequels or not.

It was Obsidian's job to create new customers for this type of game. They attracted attention (good job there), they had the opportunity to make people stay. Then they failed to make people stay.

(I agree with those who say that the commercial failure had not much to do with the systems, even though I didn't like them myself. It was the world building/narrative/characters.)
 

Removal

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Gandalf isn't a mage, as evidenced by his failure to ever cast fireballs and cloudkill and murder everything! He's almost certainly some kind of cleric/thief with a couple magic wands larping as a wizard.
He throws around lightning and fire spells to the point of breaking stone and it being visible a day's journey away when the nine cornered him at weathertop
 

Butter

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8,620
Maybe we should all just buy PoE 2 now.
I've tried so many times. I always uninstall around the time the main character gets the dialog option "I. Hate. Boats."
I'm pretty sure that line was supposed to be funny. Like if in a previous installment the character had a bad experience on a boat, and they're subtly referencing it. Except that bad experience never happened, so it just comes across as awkward.
 

AdamReith

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
I'm pretty sure that line was supposed to be funny. Like if in a previous installment the character had a bad experience on a boat, and they're subtly referencing it. Except that bad experience never happened, so it just comes across as awkward.
Contributing Writers Nick Carver, Kate Dollarhyde, Alec Frey, Katrina Garsten, Paul Kirsch, Carrie Patel, Joshua Eric Sawyer, Megan Starks

I wonder how many times they've watched Indiana Jones collectively.
 

Efe

Erudite
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you literally wake up in a boat, get boarded by pirates in minutes and then ground the fucking ship moments after.
yes you are given the option to hate boats. dont go full retard when trying to nitpick.
 

AdamReith

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is.
you literally wake up in a boat, get boarded by pirates in minutes and then ground the fucking ship moments after.
yes you are given the option to hate boats. dont go full retard when trying to nitpick.

There are surely more eloquent/interesting ways of expressing this though?

Stuff like this is subject to scorn in my opinion because you can just imagine the writer throwing down whatever just to get it done.
 

biggestboss

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 16, 2017
Messages
528
you literally wake up in a boat, get boarded by pirates in minutes and then ground the fucking ship moments after.
yes you are given the option to hate boats. dont go full retard when trying to nitpick.
I don't care about why the character says it. I care that my character says "I. Hate. Boats." with that exact wording and punctuation.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Gandalf isn't a mage, as evidenced by his failure to ever cast fireballs and cloudkill and murder everything! He's almost certainly some kind of cleric/thief with a couple magic wands larping as a wizard.

Cept he did. Magic, at least wizard magic, is reactive and environmental in LOTR and not specifically requiring reagents. It's a point he makes when the Fellowship tries to cross the mountain pass before Moria. Gimli bitches asking why Gandalf isn't melting all the snow blocking their path and he replies that he needs something to do that with, and apparently something proportional to the act, as the firewood they brought wasn't enough for that but he was able to start a fire with it when no one else could get one going by just touching his staff to one of the logs.

Another from the Hobbit is when they're hiding from the huge army of wolves in trees he starts picking pine cones and firing them off aflame like fireworks to land on wolves and starts setting a bunch on fire, which then backfires when Orcs arrive and use the patches of fire he's started to build pyres around the trees everyone's hiding in to try to smoke them out.

There's also the physical exhaustion aspect he runs into trying to magically block a door in Moria and the check that the Balrog attempts to defeat his spell with almost killed him if it had succeeded and how he can't do many things when called upon because he says the spells require preparation in a Vancian manner.

Regardless of how it works, magic ala typical wizard use seems to be done in a way to prevent them simply standing around waving their hands and murdering all in their path and for a sword and physical action to be required, if only to fill in the times in between when magic is unavailable.

I wish more games had LotR style Gandalf magic instead of D&D style glass cannon wizards.

LotRO’s Loremaster started out* that way. Now it has a pet who can solo most of the content on top of nuking.

* - DreadLocked by goblins in Limuel’s Vineyard. Good times.
 

Jason Liang

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Skipped 13 pages to say this.

My experience playing POE 1: I spent two hours with a Ranger before I realized that combat was useless since it doesn't give experience points. So I restarted rolling a Rogue, and solo'ed game in 8 hours stealthing by 90% of the encounters and sniping the rest one enemy at a time.

What is wrong with POE 1 (in order from worst to least worst):

#1. Absurd loading times
#2. Stupid, embarrassing AI. The enemies basically have no AI. I would kill one enemy, run away, the rest go back into position, then I snipe another one, etc.
#3. Terrible, boring spell system. After playing around with Eladir Aloth (whatever his name is) and the Chanter, I had no interest whatsoever in the game's magic system with cookie recipe spell effects
#4. Without a well developed spell system, class differentiation falls apart. Honestly, the only enjoyable class was Rogue
#5. Without combat experience, combat becomes a chore with no reward, when combat is supposed to be the main gameplay. Therefore basically POE has no real gameplay since stealthing past a fight is the correct choice 90% of the time
#6. Terrible stat system/ mechanics/ skill system
#7. Classes are designed for soloing, not for party play. Most classes have so many per/encounter, per/rest abilities that need to be micromanaged that it is a chore with a full party
#8. The rhythm of the game is off. In the same way that both Arcanum and Path of Exile also have the rhythm off. Infinity Engine got the rhythm of rtwp perfect

Sawyer is probably responsibly for #3, #4, #5, #6 and #7... that puts a lot of the responsibility on him.

UPDATE: Just looked over recent POE discussion. It seems like solo PotD is the only really interesting way to play the game. And even then, rogue is not even considered the easiest class, supposedly Chanter, Wizard, Cipher, Druid, Priest and Paladin are all even easier.
 
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