It's called Unreal...Because it is....

[Darth Roxor]

the honestly pretty meh action (particularly the arsenal was rather disappointing) made me think of it as a bit of a glorified tech demo

Disagreed, I've been hesitant about replaying Unreal for a very long time exactly because I feared it would be that, but I did it for the first time since release last year, and both the action and the arsenal are great. The skaarj are essentially UT deathmatch bots - they strafe around, jump on props, use weapon alt-fires and even pick up health packs and weapons they (accidentally) run into. Some of the later stages where you face multiple skaarj at once are top level FPS action, and the other enemies aren't a lot less exciting either, especially since they are well placed, because the level design itself is also very good. Likewise the guns are pretty great to shoop and most of them remain useful all the way through against different things.

I will however second that the last 1/3 of the game is tiresome. At that point it feels like the environments get way too 'recycled' and familiar (Nali Castle being the top stinker - it's just a generic medieval castle, there's very little difference between it and Bluff Eversmoking, and why would the Nali even need a castle to begin with?), while the skaarj mothership has way too much stupid and opaque shit to it, like stages where you have to run around in circles killing seemingly endlessly-respawning skaarj until it turns out that the respawns aren't endless and you just have to kill 837469 of them to progress.

Still, the first 2/3 are some of the greatest shooter gameplay out there, hands down. Not just because of the atmosphere (which is top notch, Unreal is one of the few games out there that feel genuinely otherworldly), but also the action and level design. ISV Kran and Bluff Eversmoking are such outstanding levels that they both simply have to be experienced, and it's further amazing how completely different both of them are.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

I was actually thinking about replying it as well, particularly since I'm on a bit of an old school shooter binge this year, but from top of my head none of the weapons pop up as memorable or fun and most of them were weirdly overdesigned. Ditto for enemies. Yes, some of them were bot-like which was a pretty cool idea, but they lacked character and I never understood why the main criticism of q1 (only few enemies at the same time tops, spongy) was never directed at unreal.

I have serious doubts over whether this is one of those games I would "re-discover" after not being too hot on it back in the day.

 

[Nutmeg]

and both the action and the arsenal are great

The player's hitscan weapons are OP and nullify all the cool dodging AI the enemies have.

I wish the game had a proper hard mode that either completely removed te hitscan weapons, severely limited their ammo, or turned them into projectile weapons, rather than just adding HP bloat.

 

[NecroLord]

the honestly pretty meh action (particularly the arsenal was rather disappointing) made me think of it as a bit of a glorified tech demo

Disagreed, I've been hesitant about replaying Unreal for a very long time exactly because I feared it would be that, but I did it for the first time since release last year, and both the action and the arsenal are great. The skaarj are essentially UT deathmatch bots - they strafe around, jump on props, use weapon alt-fires and even pick up health packs and weapons they (accidentally) run into. Some of the later stages where you face multiple skaarj at once are top level FPS action, and the other enemies aren't a lot less exciting either, especially since they are well placed, because the level design itself is also very good. Likewise the guns are pretty great to shoop and most of them remain useful all the way through against different things.

I will however second that the last 1/3 of the game is tiresome. At that point it feels like the environments get way too 'recycled' and familiar (Nali Castle being the top stinker - it's just a generic medieval castle, there's very little difference between it and Bluff Eversmoking, and why would the Nali even need a castle to begin with?), while the skaarj mothership has way too much stupid and opaque shit to it, like stages where you have to run around in circles killing seemingly endlessly-respawning skaarj until it turns out that the respawns aren't endless and you just have to kill 837469 of them to progress.

Still, the first 2/3 are some of the greatest shooter gameplay out there, hands down. Not just because of the atmosphere (which is top notch, Unreal is one of the few games out there that feel genuinely otherworldly), but also the action and level design. ISV Kran and Bluff Eversmoking are such outstanding levels that they both simply have to be experienced, and it's further amazing how completely different both of them are.

I initially did not like ISV Kran, but it did eventually grow on me.
Has some great sequences and the level design is actually pretty decent.

 

[Lemming42]

Despite being a fan of the game I never really liked the combat, though the weapons are very unique and the enemy AI has some cool tricks (and by "some cool tricks", I basically just mean dodge roll). It's always been about the music and visuals to me, as well as the way it embraces everything being genuinely weird and alien. Vivid memories of the trench leading to the crashed ISV Kran, the thunder pool, the weird floating thing that takes you up to the sky islands, the mines with the enslaved Nali that combined glowing blue crystals and intense orange lava, all that.

It's odd that UT99 combat feels so perfect and punchy while Unreal combat itself is a lot more... "floaty" isn't the right word but it's the only one I have.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Better than Half Life for sure.

I always thought so. I never understood the popularity of Half-Life. Half-Life did some cool environmental things, but Unreal was a much tighter shooter. The fact that they decided to use quasi-bot AI for the enemies made the game much more interesting than other shooters at the time, and honestly that should have been a no brainer for the other studios making their games at the time. Quake had third party bot mods that could even play CTF. They were no where close to as good as playing with people, but they would have been good enough for Quake 2 enemies. I think during that time, though, id Software was more interested in selling engine tech than they were at making games. Epic was smart for hiring those guys that made bot mods for Quake to do their enemy AI.

 

[Beans00]

Better than Half Life for sure.

I always thought so. I never understood the popularity of Half-Life. Half-Life did some cool environmental things, but Unreal was a much tighter shooter. The fact that they decided to use quasi-bot AI for the enemies made the game much more interesting than other shooters at the time, and honestly that should have been a no brainer for the other studios making their games at the time. Quake had third party bot mods that could even play CTF. They were no where close to as good as playing with people, but they would have been good enough for Quake 2 enemies. I think during that time, though, id Software was more interested in selling engine tech than they were at making games. Epic was smart for hiring those guys that made bot mods for Quake to do their enemy AI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_engine#Games_using_the_Quake_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_II_engine#Games_using_the_Quake_II_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_3#Games_using_the_engine


I'm not sure, but I think the Unreal engine was more successful...
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_1
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_2
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_3
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_4
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_5



I actually heard a pretty credible rumor that John Carmack(Now he's wasting away making shitty vr/ai stuff no one cares about for the last 15 years) retired from making games/engines because he knew he could never compete with Unreal, or the Unreal engine. Maybe Eirinjas could elaborate?

 

[Tweed]

If you weren't there when it was brand new then you have no idea what it was like to step out of the Vortex Rikers and see the world in all its beauty. Nothing looks as good as Unreal and every hour of every day of every year we'd spent waiting for it was worth it.

 

[Desman]

Unreal 99 should always be compared to Quake 3. UT99 > Quake 3

Quake is technically better because of its engine but UT99 music, levels and "world" make it more fun as a "casual" gamer and FPS enjoyer.
If you are an hyper competitive dueler its hard to argue against quake 3 tho.

But let's not be petty, both games are awesome for different reasons.

 

[Beans00]

Unreal 99 should always be compared to Quake 3. UT99 > Quake 3

If you are an hyper competitive dueler its hard to argue against quake 3 tho.

It's easy I'll do it right now.

UT99 has better weapons, better maps, better game mods, better mods, better music/atmosphere.

UT99 > UT 2004 > quake 3 > UT 2003. I should point out I consider all of these games very good, and I played them all fairly extensively. UT99 was another level of fun though.

 

[Eirinjas]

Better than Half Life for sure.

I always thought so. I never understood the popularity of Half-Life. Half-Life did some cool environmental things, but Unreal was a much tighter shooter. The fact that they decided to use quasi-bot AI for the enemies made the game much more interesting than other shooters at the time, and honestly that should have been a no brainer for the other studios making their games at the time. Quake had third party bot mods that could even play CTF. They were no where close to as good as playing with people, but they would have been good enough for Quake 2 enemies. I think during that time, though, id Software was more interested in selling engine tech than they were at making games. Epic was smart for hiring those guys that made bot mods for Quake to do their enemy AI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_engine#Games_using_the_Quake_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_II_engine#Games_using_the_Quake_II_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_3#Games_using_the_engine


I'm not sure, but I think the Unreal engine was more successful...
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_1
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_2
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_3
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_4
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_5



I actually heard a pretty credible rumor that John Carmack(Now he's wasting away making shitty vr/ai stuff no one cares about for the last 15 years) retired from making games/engines because he knew he could never compete with Unreal, or the Unreal engine. Maybe Eirinjas could elaborate?

I remember after Unreal came out, John Carmack was like, "Hey, I was going to put 16-bit color in Quake II. But... uhh... *mumbling*." If he had, and the artists were not limited to a shit-brown color palette, Unreal would have died in its crib and the Unreal engine would have likely died with it.

I think that the original guys at id Software just blew up so big and made so much money from Doom and Quake that they were creatively spent. There is a phenomenon I've read about where people often peak creatively by their late 20s. In fact, 27 seems to be the approximate age where you have things like the 27 club or the phenomenon of people aging out of criminality. It could be tied to the risk vs reward system in the brain, which isn't fully developed until age 25. Think of all the great musicians who either pass away young or who cannot write a hit past their 30s. I mean, idTech 7 looks amazing and if you read up on it, some of the performance improvements were achieved by removing features John Carmack had implemented in earlier idTech versions, such as MegaTextures.

The Unreal Engine has this problem where you know a game has been made in the engine just by looking at a screenshot or video:

 

[NecroLord]

But let's not be petty, both games are awesome for different reasons.

Yes.
And I never understood the comparison between them and arguing which one of the two is greater.

 

[NecroLord]

Better than Half Life for sure.

I always thought so. I never understood the popularity of Half-Life. Half-Life did some cool environmental things, but Unreal was a much tighter shooter. The fact that they decided to use quasi-bot AI for the enemies made the game much more interesting than other shooters at the time, and honestly that should have been a no brainer for the other studios making their games at the time. Quake had third party bot mods that could even play CTF. They were no where close to as good as playing with people, but they would have been good enough for Quake 2 enemies. I think during that time, though, id Software was more interested in selling engine tech than they were at making games. Epic was smart for hiring those guys that made bot mods for Quake to do their enemy AI.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_engine#Games_using_the_Quake_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_II_engine#Games_using_the_Quake_II_engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id_Tech_3#Games_using_the_engine


I'm not sure, but I think the Unreal engine was more successful...
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_1
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_2
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_3
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_4
https://unreal.fandom.com/wiki/Unreal_Engine_5



I actually heard a pretty credible rumor that John Carmack(Now he's wasting away making shitty vr/ai stuff no one cares about for the last 15 years) retired from making games/engines because he knew he could never compete with Unreal, or the Unreal engine. Maybe Eirinjas could elaborate?

I remember after Unreal came out, John Carmack was like, "Hey, I was going to put 16-bit color in Quake II. But... uhh... *mumbling*." If he had, and the artists were not limited to a shit-brown color palette, Unreal would have died in its crib and the Unreal engine would have likely died with it.

I think that the original guys at id Software just blew up so big and made so much money from Doom and Quake that they were creatively spent. There is a phenomenon I've read about where people often peak creatively by their late 20s. In fact, 27 seems to be the approximate age where you have things like the 27 club or the phenomenon of people aging out of criminality. It could be tied to the risk vs reward system in the brain, which isn't fully developed until age 25. Think of all the great musicians who either pass away young or who cannot write a hit past their 30s. I mean, idTech 7 looks amazing and if you read up on it, some of the performance improvements were achieved by removing features John Carmack had implemented in earlier idTech versions, such as MegaTextures.

The Unreal Engine has this problem where you know a game has been made in the engine just by looking at a screenshot or video:

Id Tech Engine games truly are a marvel.
Seriously, I can't even remember when was the last time an Id Tech Engine game crashed on me when I was playing it.
It's so stable and well made.
You can thank Carmack for that.

 

[Beans00]

I remember after Unreal came out, John Carmack was like, "Hey, I was going to put 16-bit color in Quake II. But... uhh... *mumbling*." If he had, and the artists were not limited to a shit-brown color palette, Unreal would have died in its crib and the Unreal engine would have likely died with it.

I think that the original guys at id Software just blew up so big and made so much money from Doom and Quake that they were creatively spent.

The reason Doom and Quake made so much money is because they were both made by like 10 people and were self published. Carmack was afraid of growing the company, which lead to severe burnout but obviously tons of profit. 10 people working 20 hour days, which admittedly is a very unique mix of impressive and retarded.

https://www.mobygames.com/game/1068/doom/credits/dos/
https://www.mobygames.com/game/374/quake/credits/dos/

There's only 15 people in the credits for doom, including a bunch of people who were fired. That's why they could afford to give away Ferrari's at quake tournaments. There was also a huge amount of infighting at ID, which is ironic since they invented infighting in FPS games.

" If he had, and the artists were not limited to a shit-brown color palette, Unreal would have died in its crib and the Unreal engine"

Unreal engine 1 blew what ID was doing out of the water, at the time. You can cope about that if you need to. The fact is, ID absolutely owned the FPS landscape until 1998. Then half life and Unreal happened, and after that nobody really cared what ID did.

Doom 3 sold well and looked impressive, but I can only think of 3 games that used its engine(quake 4 and prey).

 

[Eirinjas]

I remember after Unreal came out, John Carmack was like, "Hey, I was going to put 16-bit color in Quake II. But... uhh... *mumbling*." If he had, and the artists were not limited to a shit-brown color palette, Unreal would have died in its crib and the Unreal engine would have likely died with it.

I think that the original guys at id Software just blew up so big and made so much money from Doom and Quake that they were creatively spent.

The reason Doom and Quake made so much money is because they were both made by like 10 people and were self published. Carmack was afraid of growing the company, which lead to severe burnout but obviously tons of profit. 10 people working 20 hour days, which admittedly is a very unique mix of impressive and retarded.

https://www.mobygames.com/game/1068/doom/credits/dos/
https://www.mobygames.com/game/374/quake/credits/dos/

There's only 15 people in the credits for doom, including a bunch of people who were fired. That's why they could afford to give away Ferrari's at quake tournaments. There was also a huge amount of infighting at ID, which is ironic since they invented infighting in FPS games.

" If he had, and the artists were not limited to a shit-brown color palette, Unreal would have died in its crib and the Unreal engine"

Unreal engine 1 blew what ID was doing out of the water, at the time. You can cope about that if you need to. The fact is, ID absolutely owned the FPS landscape until 1998. Then half life and Unreal happened, and after that nobody really cared what ID did.

Doom 3 sold well and looked impressive, but I can only think of 3 games that used its engine(quake 4 and prey).

I'm not coping, faggot. I merely made an observation based on data. Unreal is a better looking game. Quake II is a better playing game. They are both fine games, but I prefer gameplay over graphics. If Quake II had 16-bit color, Unreal, which was released more than 6 months later, would have been made obsolete. I don't know how you could argue otherwise. What are gonna say? That the tumbling the Skarrj did was magical AI that made for superior gameplay? The Skarrj are only remembered for that hallway reveal - a tight dark corridor in a scripted gotcha moment that happens early in the game. Most of the late-game difficulty comes purely from enemies hiding in the dark. Wow. Amazing AI. The only thing you really have are expansive outdoor environments, which are frankly tiresome to trudge through as you progress in the game.

Needless to say, but Quake 3 outsold Unreal Tournament. Doom 3 outsold both Doom and Doom II. So, your retarded kvetching about id's irrelevancy post Unreal and Half-Life is not based on reality.

 

[Lemming42]

Unreal's vast open areas have no point of comparison in Q2. There's a reason everyone still talks about leaving Vortex Rikers and seeing Nyleve Falls for the first time, it looked astonishing. Not just visually, but the realisation that you could jump down the waterfall and there was actually a whole jungle area down there to explore. It was really cool. Even as someone who prefers Half-Life I remember thinking as a kid that it felt a bit constrained after Unreal.

I don't think lack of 16 bit colour is what held Q2 back as a game.

 

[NecroLord]

Are we really going to compare classics now?
They are both awesome, but for different reasons.

 

[Beans00]

Needless to say, but Quake 3 outsold Unreal Tournament. Doom 3 outsold both Doom and Doom II. So, your retarded kvetching about id's irrelevancy post Unreal and Half-Life is not based on reality.

https://www.vgchartz.com/game/227985/unreal-tournament/
https://www.vgchartz.com/game/13224/quake-iii-arena/?region=All

UT99 sold twice the units quake 3 did.


It's true, I was probably being melodramatic calling ID irrelevant post half life. Doom 3 did sell very well. ID weren't industry leaders by then though, that's a fact.

 

[Beans00]

Are we really going to compare classics now?
They are both awesome, but for different reasons.

I don't consider quake 2 awesome. I thought it sucked to be completely blunt. Terrible level design, and terrible enemy design. The only thing it has going for it, is the arsenal.

Unreal is a masterpiece.

Quake 2 was a step back from Quake 1(which I'm not the biggest fan of either, but it was a seminal 3d game and completely groundbreaking) in every way, except the arsenal.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

 

[AlwaysBrotoMen]

Unreal was a scary game when i played as a kid. Unreal was extremely famous for its sound design and artstyle. After playing games like unreal, i felt that games like fear and farcry were extremely overrated.

 

[AlwaysBrotoMen]

Unreal was a scary game when i played as a kid. Unreal was extremely famous for its sound design and artstyle. After playing games like unreal, i felt that games like fear and farcry were extremely overrated.

UT 99. Cmon double kill, triple kill, ultra kill are iconic - I cannot forgot those words.

 

[AlwaysBrotoMen]

Quake 3 and UT 99 were last great shooters. After 2000, it was decline for shooters.
Halo arrived and shot the FPS genre in the face.

 

[AlwaysBrotoMen]

Unreal 99 should always be compared to Quake 3. UT99 > Quake 3

Quake is technically better because of its engine but UT99 music, levels and "world" make it more fun as a "casual" gamer and FPS enjoyer.
If you are an hyper competitive dueler its hard to argue against quake 3 tho.

But let's not be petty, both games are awesome for different reasons.

I hated quake 3 graphics when compared to quake 2. Quake 2 had atmosphere and suddenly it all became cartoonish in quake 3.

I agree that Quake 3 was more popular for competitive gaming due to its brand name.
But UT99 has better weapons, better maps, better game mods, better mods, better music/atmosphere.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I was never particularly impressed with Unreal. But Unreal Tournament was fucking amazing. It was hard to believe the jump in quality between the two games, the first came off like some bargain bin version of Quake, but Unreal Tournament ended up surpassing the Quake series and became one of the most fun first person shooters every made; even the Tournament sequels and spin-offs I never got into as much as that first Unreal Tournament.