KickStarter Homeworld 3 from Blackbird Interactive

[AwesomeButton]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't HW and HW2 made by Relic back in the day? If this isn't going to be made by Relic, why should anyone give a fuck until it's out and we can poke it with sticks to see if there is any life in it?

 

[Infinitron]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't HW and HW2 made by Relic back in the day? If this isn't going to be made by Relic, why should anyone give a fuck until it's out and we can poke it with sticks to see if there is any life in it?

This is by a team of ex-Homeworld developers who also released Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak back in 2016.

 

[Grotesque]

A blend of Homeworld founders, Deserts of Kharak vets, and fresh talent, Blackbird Interactive is the best suited studio in the world to carry the torch for the future of the franchise

 

[Storyfag]

Deserts of Kharak vets

Oh such a splendid resume they have there.

 

[Grotesque]

Deserts of Kharak vets

Oh such a splendid resume they have there.

 

[Hellraiser]

I am cautiously pessimistic about this.

 

[ZeniBot]

God fucking damn it Randy.

 

[karoliner]

There is no reason to be pesimistic about this. The studio is made up of the people who made Homeworld 1 & 2 and deserts of kharak was a pretty decent Ground Control clone. We should be more sceptical about Age of Empires 4 which is being made by Relic a group of people with no relation whatsoever to Ensemble Studios. And as all canadians are cucks.

 

[Sinatar]

There is no reason to be pesimistic about this. The studio is made up of the people who made Homeworld 1 & 2 and deserts of kharak was a pretty decent Ground Control clone. We should be more sceptical about Age of Empires 4 which is being made by Relic a group of people with no relation whatsoever to Ensemble Studios. And as all canadians are cucks.

The irony being that Relic made Homeworld 1 and 2, games you're apparently a fan of.

"Cuck".

 

[Dayyālu]

Daily reminder that Cataclysm had better gameplay ideas than HW2 and was developed by the completely unrelated Barking Dog studios, and written by the bunch of asshole thugs that now dwell at Kerberos Productions.

You don't need "INDUSTRY VETERANS" to make a good Homeworld game: you need people with good skills and that understand both the storyfag approach to the game and the underlying gameplay. Desserts of Kharak failed both on the lorefag approach (srs, the plot is contrived at best) and the gameplay was mediocre and completely outdated (I get they had to work with the skeleton of a F2P game, though).

As much as I can disagree respectfully regarding HW2 with SecondAmendment , he completely nailed it regarding HW1. HW1 was nothing short of a miracle, lighting in a bottle, the perfect storyfag RTS that didn't even need characters, with awesome visual design, great sound design and serviceable-to-good gameplay. Hell, from the interviews the devs themselves seemed to be somewhat unaware of what made it good.

Until I see HW3 in the digital flesh the fucks aren't worthy of a single iota of trust. Mediocrity doesn't suit Homeworld well.

 

[underground nymph]

The visual style in Kharak was awesome, I was really enjoying playing it on projector and with decent speaker system. Quite a surprise Unity could achieve this level of immersion.
The story is kind of ok, it’s a prequel after all. There were some nice details like ships caught inside planet after failed hyper space jump. I mean it wasn’t superb, but it was really ok.
Gameplay-wise it certainly lacked novelty, thus became forgotten at most.

 

[Makabb]

just let it die

 

[tindrli]

great music

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Kharak was originally another game, retrofitted to become a homeworld prequel. With a shoestring budget and on fucking Unity of all engines. The game had no business being as good as it was.

There hasn't been a bad homeworld game, not even fucking close.

 

[J_C]

The studio is made up of the people who made Homeworld 1 & 2.

That's what they are feeding us, but AFAIK only the leat artist and lead art designer is working on it. So the best we can hope is a visual style similar to the original.

That said, I'm optimistic about the game. The sole fact that an RTS like this is being made is great. This genre basically died, so I take a game which is decent any time of the day. That's why Kharak was also a godsent.

 

[Cyberarmy]

 

[Infinitron]

Wow, they've raised half a million. Half of it is investments but still impressive for a glorified preorder.

 

[DraQ]

Cata was meh at best, with some parts being infuriatingly bad. HW2 had some good gameplay mechanics (and some terribly bad one) and art direction, but people responsible for large parts of the story (and retcons to the backstory) should be fucking shot. With Cata siege cannon. Because they fucking ruined HW 2 fucking dead.

Seriously, words cannot express how fucking shit Silmarillion in space was and how fucking retarded a lot of the unfolding story developments turned out to be.
Anyone not realizing how fucking awful HW2 was storywise is literally braindead and should be harvested for organs.

 

[DraQ]

Kharak was originally another game, retrofitted to become a homeworld prequel.

I thought it was meant to be sort of spiritual successor due to inability to secure the IP. Once it was secured, it promptly switched to a full prequel.

There hasn't been a bad homeworld game, not even fucking close.

Other than HW1 (and possibly Kharak, haven't played it) - all of them?
Ok, Cata was arguably good for what it was, but barely.

 

[Matalarata]

bunch of asshole thugs that now dwell at Kerberos Productions

I hate those guys, the way they abandoned their own games and their general attitude. But I immediately bought Fort Zombie when it came on Steam, I own SoTS 2 (d1p ) and SoTS is still my go-to space 4X with awesum combat. Why is that? Why?

 

[Dayyālu]

Cata was meh at best, with some parts being infuriatingly bad.

Everything in Cata was better gameplay-wise than the original (bar arguably fuel). You can argue that both the Beast and the Soomtaw have a frankly irregular line-up of weirdo ships, but I find it refreshing instead. Contra HW2 that had the most barebones unit selection, with the Vaygr shtick being literally "unidimensional trashy ships". A single Cata vessel had more thought put into it than the entire Vaygr fleet.

Mission design was heavily scripted, and that can be a minus: but from QoL improvements (SPEED UP OPTIONS) to the worker management to everything else, Cata was an evolution. HW2 was a crippled, sorry thing in comparison (autobalancing, fleet composition, frigate bugs, overall unit design, capture mechanics, special unit mechanics, microsystems, resource mechanics.... there isn't a point where HW2 shines properly, everything is at best "adequate but").

Though, I disagree: there aren't "bad" HW games, merely good ones (HW1, Cataclysm) and mediocre ones (HW2, DoK). DoK isn't a bad game, it's merely mediocre and they bolted on HW lore with the grace of a mutilated animal.

but people responsible for large parts of the story (and retcons to the backstory) should be fucking shot. With Cata siege cannon. Because they fucking ruined HW 2 fucking dead.

They did what they could with the mangled corpse of what was left. I'd add that it could have helped not to hide the entirely laughable background in the official strategy guide that no one bought, leaving everyone asking where the fuck everyone from HW1/Cata went, why suddenly the Soban were relevant, why suddenly the disposable Hyperspace Core was relevant, why suddenly... it's also the results of the devs not understanding what made HW1 so good and what made Cata acceptable. I mean, Cata is literally THE ZOMBIE BLOB IN SPAAAACE but it makes good use of the tidbits of lore: it's a small side story where we see that after the Great Journey people and clans get back to be assholes and life goes on. It's written by people that understood how to build the narrative for an expansion.

I hate those guys, the way they abandoned their own games and their general attitude. But I immediately bought Fort Zombie when it came on Steam, I own SoTS 2 (d1p ) and SoTS is still my go-to space 4X with awesum combat. Why is that? Why?

Fort Zombie is a botched idea but it was a noble attempt: SoTs1 is still my go-to mindless 4x because it's very easy to get back in and it's very relaxing to play thanks to the balancing of simple 4x elements and tac combat. SoTs2 has been analyzed to death, but it's rather clear they overreached bad and their sanctimonious attitude started to bite them in the ass (not helping that they had a very .... we can say, indie post-gamergate approach "the consumer is always wrong) even before gamergate).

But between SoTs1 and The Pit, they are kind proof that sometimes you gotta ignore the politics and admit that they made some good games. Also fuck the dolphins, viral bombing nau

I don't even know what Kerberos is doing nowadays..... let's check....

Oh. Oooook......

 

[DraQ]

Everything in Cata was better gameplay-wise than the original (bar arguably fuel).

No.
For starters, support mechanics generally meant you ended up with about 2 dreadnoughts and maybe a sentinel screen because that was all you could support.
Then you had retarded *homing* energy cannons that not only were retarded conceptually, but made strikecraft all but obsolete even if you could afford them in terms of support. Not to mention shitting on HW's ballistics - at least HW2 had the excuse of not having ballistics for whatever reason.
Those two changes alone completely broke HW gameplay.

Then you had arbitrary divisions like what could and could not be infected (I know the in-manual explanation, but it looks like something that could be expanded to the whole fleet).

You can argue that both the Beast and the Soomtaw have a frankly irregular line-up of weirdo ships, but I find it refreshing instead.

And, yes, then you had the entire fleet composed of Hobart's funnies. The problem wasn't Cata having weirdo ships, the problem was Cata having nothing but weirdo ships.

And then there was less gameplay related stuff:

• Art design was substantially worse than HW. Other than pretty cool Kuun-Lan the ships were uninspired, with the more sensible ones just being boxes.
• The backgrounds rarely related to each other. It might seem superficial but in HW the succession of gradually changing backgrounds strongly conveyed fleet's journey towards the galactic core. In Cata you're just derping around into random places. There is no feeling of cohesion.
• The backgrounds were animated. This is so fucking wrong given the context that it makes me feel strong urge to find whomever came up with the idea and rip their face off their skull.
• SPAAAZ CRYSTALS!!!1

Yes Cata managed to take a stale story and tell it in a fairly competent and enjoyable manner (although not without certain degree of grating fanficy marysueness), but that hardly makes it HW's peer.

Contra HW2 that had the most barebones unit selection, with the Vaygr shtick being literally "unidimensional trashy ships". A single Cata vessel had more thought put into it than the entire Vaygr fleet.

Vaygr stuff was mostly uninteresting but that's mostly due to overspecialization and somewhat meh visual style (although corvettes were pretty distinct visually and apart from laser corvette that was wrong for a HW game, were ok, while bigger ships from frigates up still had cool stuff like PD or additional missile tubes). Hiigaran fleet was pretty cool though - I only hated destroyer for blatant attempts at looking like a naval ship.

HW2 was a crippled, sorry thing in comparison (autobalancing, fleet composition, frigate bugs, overall unit design, capture mechanics, special unit mechanics, microsystems, resource mechanics.... there isn't a point where HW2 shines properly, everything is at best "adequate but").

• Rubberbanding was hilariously shit, but that's more like meta-mechanics. HW1 did have rubberbanding too, BTW, albeit subtle and not broken.
• What's wrong with fleet composition?
• What frigate bugs?
• Overall unit design was pretty good.
• Capture mechanics was workable. Better than Cata in any case, matter of preference relative to HW1's salvettes.
  
• What special unit mechanics.
• Modules, if that's what you mean by microsystems, were cool and actually one of the things Cata did right before.
• What's wrong with resourcing? Salvaging wreckage was cool and workers were the best in the series. Mission autocompletion was shit, of course, but its connection to resourcing is kind of tenuous and it wouldn't have been that bad without broken rubberbanding.
• You missed strikecraft squadrons and formations which were shitty and lack of ballistics which was one of the worst things about HW2 mechanically.

They did what they could with the mangled corpse of what was left. (...) it's also the results of the devs not understanding what made HW1 so good and what made Cata acceptable.

You have just contradicted yourself.

I'd add that it could have helped not to hide the entirely laughable background in the official strategy guide that no one bought, leaving everyone asking where the fuck everyone from HW1/Cata went, why suddenly the Soban were relevant, why suddenly the disposable Hyperspace Core was relevant, why suddenly...

I thought Soban, as the most military-focused kiith was kind of understandable?

Hyperspace core being inexplicably upgraded to a space silmaril was inexcusably shit - what was there in the guide that could possibly change that? Also immortal Karan S'jet because space magic, or something.

Anyway, the campaign itself also contained plenty of derp - how can you explain Maakan trying to destroy the gate and prevent you from following even though you carried one of the space silmarils without which he would remain trapped deep in the core?

 

[Storyfag]

how can you explain Maakan trying to destroy the gate and prevent you from following even though you carried one of the space silmarils without which he would remain trapped deep in the core?

That was pure derp. But you have to admit, he had a kickass Potato dub.

 

[Dayyālu]

Let's spoiler this shit.

Spoiler

For starters, support mechanics generally meant you ended up with about 2 dreadnoughts and maybe a sentinel screen because that was all you could support.

This requires a discussion regarding SP balance with MP balance: I'll freely admit I never played MP Cata but we both know that even HW had a unit limit (even if a unarguably big one). Supply limits in SP Cata weren't punishing and often pushed for more flexibility of use, particularly if we consider the basic set-up of Acolytes as both fighter/bombers and corvettes. Supply limits in the mechanical balance of Cata campaign make for tighter gameplay and more adequate mission design.

Then you had retarded *homing* energy cannons that not only were retarded conceptually, but made strikecraft all but obsolete even if you could afford them in terms of support.

Well, fuck, Lv3 cannons were OP on purpose, but then you got stuff like the Super Acolytes that made everything else irrelevant. I don't even remember how late you got Lv3, but I do have to admit that they entirely broke the ballistics. Point to ye.

Then you had arbitrary divisions like what could and could not be infected (I know the in-manual explanation, but it looks like something that could be expanded to the whole fleet).

This is extremely easy: mission design. Enjoy your fleet wipes when your Dreadnaught gets Beast'ed, but it's amusing to consider that captured cap ships weren't immune, making them a liability during engagements (and they could not be upgraded!). There was some serious thinking behind Cata's updating/capturing/beast infecting system, even if in MP I can admit the thing maybe can reach overcomplexity.

And, yes, then you had the entire fleet composed of Hobart's funnies. The problem wasn't Cata having weirdo ships, the problem was Cata having nothing but weirdo ships.

Acolytes work as basic fighter/bombers and corvettes and capships are entirely functional, particularly the Destroyer. The only place where the Soomtaw line-up is entirely weird is frigates, that completely lack an unremarkable heavy duty unit. The addition of Sentinels and Leech drones opened some creative solutions for missions, even outside of the scripted events.

Compare and contrast with HW2 where everything was unremarkable as they go. Did we even get Stealth fighters in HW2? I can't even remember the ship lineup for the Higaarans.

And then there was less gameplay related stuff:

• Art design was substantially worse than HW. Other than pretty cool Kuun-Lan the ships were uninspired, with the more sensible ones just being boxes.

I disagree, but this is a matter of personal tastes. I still find the Acolytes an excellent example of "Kushan but hybridized", and it's the entire point (as told in the intro itself) to have "Hiigaran ships of weird and unusual design travel the galaxy". Plus the Ram Frigate is one of my childhood favourites, even if it's completely useless. But again, matter of tastes. The Mimic is indeed a box, but for chrissakes, it's a holographic suicide bomber.

• The backgrounds rarely related to each other. It might seem superficial but in HW the succession of gradually changing backgrounds strongly conveyed fleet's journey towards the galactic core. In Cata you're just derping around into random places. There is no feeling of cohesion.
• The backgrounds were animated. This is so fucking wrong given the context that it makes me feel strong urge to find whomever came up with the idea and rip their face off their skull.
• SPAAAZ CRYSTALS!!!1

Can't argue with this, but in Cata you are derping around in random places. HW1 is a journey, Cata begins at Hiigara where you are nothing but a small cog in the defensive machine.

Yes Cata managed to take a stale story and tell it in a fairly competent and enjoyable manner (although not without certain degree of grating fanficy marysueness), but that hardly makes it HW's peer.

Nothing is HW1's peer, but Cata leaves to the dust easily both HW2 and DoK. Being competent is far better than what both managed to do, and we're talking a storyfag RTS.

Vaygr stuff was mostly uninteresting but that's mostly due to overspecialization and somewhat meh visual style (although corvettes were pretty distinct visually and apart from laser corvette that was wrong for a HW game, were ok, while bigger ships from frigates up still had cool stuff like PD or additional missile tubes). Hiigaran fleet was pretty cool though - I only hated destroyer for blatant attempts at looking like a naval ship.

Mediocrity doesn't suit HW well. Ending up fighting endless amounts of needle ships that all functioned the same became bothersome in the extreme, with the only borderline interesting set-up being the Keeper (re-use of the Junkyard Dog basic idea tho).

Rubberbanding was hilariously shit, but that's more like meta-mechanics. HW1 did have rubberbanding too, BTW, albeit subtle and not broken.

Ah, yes, you could completely destroy even HW1's with enough capturing (ION FRIGATE SPHERE FOR THE WIN).

What's wrong with fleet composition?

Mostly that you barely had a choice and the game forced on you a stone/paper/scissor system that was drab and boring?

What frigate bugs?

FRIGATE LOST LOSING PRESSURE IN STARBOARD CHAMBER FRIGATE LOST FRIGATE LOST FRIGATE LOST LOSING PRESSURE FRIGATE LOST

Wait, you didn't knew that Frigates are completely trash because Relic fucked up and set them NOT TO HAVE ANY ARMOUR? Add to that the weird preference of the AI to target them before anything else and you had an entire class of trash ships that could not be used in their role.

FRIGATE LOST

Capture mechanics was workable. Better than Cata in any case, matter of preference relative to HW1's salvettes.

Jeez, let's have the only capturing unit in a bugged and expensive class. Capturing ships was a roll of the dice in HW2 and requires a shitton of resources for little gain, in HW1 it was out of control and in Cata a double-edged sword. But again, matter of preferences, I agree.

What special unit mechanics.

Exactly, "what". Everything is bog standard and boring. Ahh, wait, I forgot the % bonuses given by Vaygr command corvettes. MARVEL of design.

Modules, if that's what you mean by microsystems, were cool and actually one of the things Cata did right before

Half-baked and essentially useless in the end, like the majority of HW2's gameplay.

Mission autocompletion was shit, of course, but its connection to resourcing is kind of tenuous and it wouldn't have been that bad without broken rubberbanding.

Yeah, I mean that with resource mechanics. They become essentially a non-issue if you perform adequately thanks to autocollect, contra Cata that gave you time acceleration. Also gems like

INSANE EXPLOSION OF BENTUSI HARBOUR

PERILOUS ESCAPE THROUGH HYPERSPACE

MISSION COMPLETED

ALL RESOURCES COLLECTED

You have just contradicted yourself.

To be more clear: when the original design went to hell, instead of focusing on a more down-to-earth set-up (hell, if you bother to read there's the remnants of an interesting background on the Vaygr) they doubled down on the CHOSEN ONE PLOT WITH MYSTERIOUS ANCESTORS. HW1 bar the initial shroud of myth, ss a very... grounded story. There's weird stuff, there's lost stuff, but you are essentially a self-created problem for the Emperor and skillfully use a time of political problems to deliver the killing blow: compare to HW2 and THE HYPERSPACE CORES OF DESTINY FOUND BY THE CHOSEN SPACESHIP GIRL.

It's like not having the ideas for something good and doubling down on the forced epic when you don't have the resources to sell it well.

what was there in the guide that could possibly change that?

Ahh, you haven't read it? Tell me, how much do you like fanfiction, power levels and Anime plots? Not good anime plots, think Gundam.


In the end, we don't even disagree on much. I fault HW2 far more heavily than you do and prefer Cata, but, hey, tastes.

That was pure derp. But you have to admit, he had a kickass Potato dub.

I can fault many things to HW2 (even dubbing) but even in the english dub Makaan was amusingly over-the-top.

PEOPLE OF HIIGARA YOU ARE BEATEN

 

[Zero Credibility]

I have a soft spot for Cata in my heart. Sure, it was not as good as the original, but it was decent enough. And it did improve a bit on it as well. For one thing, did original Homeworld actually allow you to issue orders when the game was paused? I don't think it did, you could change view and select ships, but not issue orders to them. In Cata you can. Then there's ship experience, actually movable mothership, and the bloody siege cannon.

Also, I loved Hive frigates in Cata. Frigates in H2 were a god damn death trap.

 

[Trans-Financial-Man]

Fuck the times we live in, fuck Randy Pitchford and fuck Epic games for making a Homeworld 3 announcement fill me with dread instead of joy. All I can think of is the myraid ways Randy and Epic will fuck Fig backers over. I can't wait for the devs to deviate from what was backed and the devs to turn round and say "We don't need your money anymore. The glorious people's republic has paid off our loan to you."