KickStarter Grim Dawn

[sgc_meltdown]

My dear Metro

I just read volume 3 of Fourteen starring Chicken George and I saw a humanoid genius mutant chicken offer to trade the secret of immortality to the human race for 9 quadrillion dollars to build a rocket ship to take his animal brothers away from this doomed planet

don't talk to me about surprise

 

[made]

just a easy way to make money off a bunch of idiots.

Kickstarter in a nutshell.

But I fail to see what's disgusting about asking for (more) money to finish an initially self-funded game as opposed to asking for money before even starting to work on it.

 

[Shannow]

Shannow, it's not hate I was expressing just skepticism. From the description and the video they show it just appears to be very similar to most aRPGs on the market. You say "not even close" so what do you see as the differences? Now please keep in mind I never liked Diablo and am not a twitch player at all.

I was simply gonna quote the KS feature list, because none of the Diablo-clones combine that in one game (most don't even have one of those features), but since this has already failed, there's no need

 

[Marobug]

Because they don't need money to finish the project, as proven by the fact it was started quite some time ago and you don't usually start projects of this dimension without being sure or at least really confident you'll see a end product. It's disgusting in the sense that it's a obvious attempt at trying to profit from the kickstarter gold rush, which in itself would be nothing new, except in this case, they don't even need the fucking money to start or finish the project. Which begs the question, what's the point of this kickstarter ? Trust on people's stupidity to throw money at their feet for no good reason. That's the very definition of "disgusting business practices" for me.

 

[made]

Same reason as every other Kickstarter: give us more money so we can add more cool stuff. Even if the game is sitting there ready to be released, which I doubt, they'd be stupid not to jump on the bandwagon before it's too late.

Once the first major KS projects fail/don't meet expectations, people will be much more stingy with their cash.

 

[Shannow]

Shannow, it's not hate I was expressing just skepticism. From the description and the video they show it just appears to be very similar to most aRPGs on the market. You say "not even close" so what do you see as the differences? Now please keep in mind I never liked Diablo and am not a twitch player at all.

I was simply gonna quote the KS feature list, because none of the Diablo-clones combine that in one game (most don't even have one of those features), but since this has already failed, there's no need

Since it started after all:

• Be DRM free! (diablo 3: nope)
• Include robust modding tools so you can create your own worlds! (diablo 3: nope)
• Be faster-paced, with much more satisfying enemy hit reactions and deaths. (diablo 3: nope)
• Allow you to fight house-to-house as you lay waste to enemies and the former owner’s furniture in the process. Break through walls to open up new areas of exploration! (diablo 3: ?)
• Feature a more open-world design with randomized elements that will greatly enhance replay-ability. Each play-through will be unique with "set-piece" spawners that can turn a patch of wilderness into different types of enemy camps, a traveling merchant caravan, etc, each with their own unique art. (diablo 3: ?)
• We don’t control where you go; you do! If you don't want to follow the main story, you aren't forced to. Non-linear progression allows you to unlock new areas by repairing bridges, defeating enemy blockades, etc, as soon as you have the resources and power to do it. Race ahead into higher-level areas and get pwned, we'll warn you but we're not going to stop you! (diablo 3: nope?)
• Let you combine any two of five distinct skill classes, each with multiple skill trees in which to specialize. Spend money to reclaim skill points if you’re unhappy with your build. (diablo 3: nope)
• Have a refined loot system that drops far less junk-items, produces more uber randomized gear and ensures more consistent rewards from hero and boss monsters. (diablo 3: ?)
• Immerse you in a gritty, dangerous, Victorian era fantasy world where humankind has been pushed to the brink of extinction by warring otherworldly powers.
• Give players meaningful quest choices and the ability to visually change the starting town as they help to rebuild and secure the future survival of humanity. (diablo 3: nope?)
• Let you ally with NPC factions to earn rewards and unlock new quest lines. Be wary though, aiding one group can make another your enemy! (diablo 3: nope?)
• Join up with friends in coop-multiplayer through online match-making or play over LAN and experience the full game together. (diablo 3: nope)

So there are quite a few more or less significant differences to D3. Personally I deem DRM-free (no always online with all its disadvantages), LAN available and (meaningful) character development to be significant differences. Sure, if one has no interest in the genre, all those differences may amount to "virtually" the same game in one's opinion. But that's like somebody without any interest in FO-type of games saying there is no difference between FO and FO Tactics...

 

[mindx2]

Since it started after all:

• Be DRM free! (diablo 3: nope)
• Include robust modding tools so you can create your own worlds! (diablo 3: nope)
• Be faster-paced, with much more satisfying enemy hit reactions and deaths. (diablo 3: nope)

Lost me right there. You're right I don't have an interest in this type game but I am happy that Diablo fans will get a better(?) Diablo game than D3 itself and also DRM free w/ LAN.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

That "combine two classes" thing didn't really work that well in Titan Quest.

 

[markec]

Because they don't need money to finish the project, as proven by the fact it was started quite some time ago and you don't usually start projects of this dimension without being sure or at least really confident you'll see a end product. It's disgusting in the sense that it's a obvious attempt at trying to profit from the kickstarter gold rush, which in itself would be nothing new, except in this case, they don't even need the fucking money to start or finish the project. Which begs the question, what's the point of this kickstarter ? Trust on people's stupidity to throw money at their feet for no good reason. That's the very definition of "disgusting business practices" for me.

You do realize its not uncommon for a game to be in production for few years and to be scraped near end of its production. For example Van Buren (original Fallout 3) was more then 90% finished when the production was halted so experiencing surprise developments can mess you production cycle greatly and put almost finished games in hibernation.


I backed the project. Usually I am not interested in ARPG-s, actually last one I enjoyed was Nox but this sounds more interesting then D3 or Torchlight 2 and if the game is shit or the guy just runs away with the cash I wont lose much.

 

[Kraszu]

The problem is the publisher is in there. They can just say "ok release it a month sooner lol" when they get more money. They also have complete control.

So yeah it's completely pointless to give money to this kickstarter, aside from the fact the game itself will be crap.

What publisher? They have listed themselves as a publisher.

 

[Brayko]

Shannow, it's not hate I was expressing just skepticism. From the description and the video they show it just appears to be very similar to most aRPGs on the market. You say "not even close" so what do you see as the differences? Now please keep in mind I never liked Diablo and am not a twitch player at all.

I was simply gonna quote the KS feature list, because none of the Diablo-clones combine that in one game (most don't even have one of those features), but since this has already failed, there's no need

Since it started after all:

• Be DRM free! (diablo 3: nope)
• Include robust modding tools so you can create your own worlds! (diablo 3: nope)
• Be faster-paced, with much more satisfying enemy hit reactions and deaths. (diablo 3: nope)
• Allow you to fight house-to-house as you lay waste to enemies and the former owner’s furniture in the process. Break through walls to open up new areas of exploration! (diablo 3: ?)
• Feature a more open-world design with randomized elements that will greatly enhance replay-ability. Each play-through will be unique with "set-piece" spawners that can turn a patch of wilderness into different types of enemy camps, a traveling merchant caravan, etc, each with their own unique art. (diablo 3: ?)
• We don’t control where you go; you do! If you don't want to follow the main story, you aren't forced to. Non-linear progression allows you to unlock new areas by repairing bridges, defeating enemy blockades, etc, as soon as you have the resources and power to do it. Race ahead into higher-level areas and get pwned, we'll warn you but we're not going to stop you! (diablo 3: nope?)
• Let you combine any two of five distinct skill classes, each with multiple skill trees in which to specialize. Spend money to reclaim skill points if you’re unhappy with your build. (diablo 3: nope)
• Have a refined loot system that drops far less junk-items, produces more uber randomized gear and ensures more consistent rewards from hero and boss monsters. (diablo 3: ?)
• Immerse you in a gritty, dangerous, Victorian era fantasy world where humankind has been pushed to the brink of extinction by warring otherworldly powers.
• Give players meaningful quest choices and the ability to visually change the starting town as they help to rebuild and secure the future survival of humanity. (diablo 3: nope?)
• Let you ally with NPC factions to earn rewards and unlock new quest lines. Be wary though, aiding one group can make another your enemy! (diablo 3: nope?)
• Join up with friends in coop-multiplayer through online match-making or play over LAN and experience the full game together. (diablo 3: nope)

So there are quite a few more or less significant differences to D3. Personally I deem DRM-free (no always online with all its disadvantages), LAN available and (meaningful) character development to be significant differences. Sure, if one has no interest in the genre, all those differences may amount to "virtually" the same game in one's opinion. But that's like somebody without any interest in FO-type of games saying there is no difference between FO and FO Tactics...

 

[Aeschylus]

The problem is the publisher is in there. They can just say "ok release it a month sooner lol" when they get more money. They also have complete control.

So yeah it's completely pointless to give money to this kickstarter, aside from the fact the game itself will be crap.

Ok... what the hell are you talking about? I see no mention of any publisher anywhere. They stated that they have been self-funded thus far, and have been working on it between day-jobs.

 

[JudasIscariot]

73,000 and rising. Looks like this one is going to get funded.

 

[Excommunicator]

This actually looks like an essentially truthful and transparent kickstarter. They have a game basically done, and they call it a spiritual successor to Titan Quest, a non-aspiring and very genre-standard game. No one would admit to their game being only that unless they were serious about their enthusiasm for such a game. That means you shouldn't be enthusiastic about it though. It is stock standard H&S. By the principles of the Codex, people should not be donating to such a game. On the other hand, there isn't really any risk of being tricked or deceived if you do because they aren't aiming high. There just isn't much room for discussion here. Donate if you play and enjoy such games, but don't do so on the basis of any principle other than PC & [no] DRM, because it doesn't represent anything else.

 

[Texas Red]

Not... EXTREME enough.

 

[Jaesun]

guessing the bioware name goes pretty far, pretty sad.

No. I think it is more that it is done by the Titan Quest people and their statement a few years back that can basically be summarized as "OMG! Our crap game failed to sell well because of PIRATES!!!111!!" (If I am remembering correctly).

Titan Quest was something that didn't really appeal to me at the time. This seems interesting, but there are other genre's I'd rather fund. I wish them luck on this.

 

[Terpsichore]

Titan Quest was subpar, not putting much hopes here.

 

[Father Walker]

Looks like they want to make something similar to Divine Divinity. Might be cool.

Anyway, I don't see any problems with those guys asking people for their jewgoldz. Realities of the industry mean that you either whore for big company or make indie stuff. If the guys need 30k to finish their game and some folks are more than happy to throw money at them, then where's the problem?

There was another longer article (can't find the link, cause I didn't search) where some dev explained how the publishers meddled in TQ's development. Which in turn explaine some of TQ's blandness. Just sayin'.

Yep. It's scary how much publishers meddled with TQ.

 

[mugarod]

Started TQ several times and I only managed to complete the first island before getting bored out of my mind with the game. Started out interesting enough but there was way to much clickity. Never really could play games like this for a long time anyway. Took me several tries to finish Diablo 2 but that seemed less boring for whatever reason, even though concept is the same. Loved Divine Divinity though so if it is anything like that I will definatelly buy it but right now it looks like another H/S borefest. I actually thought that the future of rpgs will end up being a bunch of diablo clones but we were saved by glorious bethesda and bioware and now can fulfill our deepest sexual fantasies like never before.

 

[General Maxson]

I want a good hack and slash game, and Torchlight looks too cartoony and I hate that, Diablo 3 costs a fuckton and they are real bastards with auction house, always online, wow style graphics, loot only, no character development, and practically everything in the game made for "harvesting" blizzard more money (like they haven't got enough), also game seems too short for my taste, and I don't want to have to play through the "story" on high difficulties just to prolong the game and I'm not that interested in mmo or multiplayer gaming as a matter of fact. Hack and slash games that I really liked were Diablo 1 (because of it's superbly dark atmosphere) and Divine Divinity.

I'm wondering should I perhaps pledge to this or are there games more suited to my preferences on the horizon. Seems like Obsidian turnbased rpg will not be coming for a long time, and Dead State seems a bit disappointing, there's only maybe Xenonauts left for my kind of kickstarter. And I don't think that will change soon, as I see more shitty kickstarters every day.

 

[Father Walker]

I'm wondering should I perhaps pledge to this or are there games more suited to my preferences on the horizon.

Let's repeat it again: Path of Exile.

 

[General Maxson]

...I'm not that interested in mmo or multiplayer gaming as a matter of fact...

And I dislike internet only playing, as my connection is rather shitty.

 

[toro]

The game is 100% funded. What's the problem?

From my point of view, someone should not whine about somebody else's money. It's simple hypocrisy, cause the motivation for the advice is not genuine care.

And kickstarter despite obvious flaws is a great fucking idea. For one reason only: it irreversibly broke the publisher model of business, because someone with really good ideas has an alternative to his shit. I mean that ofc there will be failures and shit, maybe even crisis, but nevertheless a good idea/personality will get funded no mater what. Some of them will not actually worth the money, but I'm thinking about the ones that do. And I'm also thinking about startups which can use this money as a gift from God. But my common sense asks for restrain, let's see what happens in a few years.

 

[made]

Dynamic corridors explained:
http://www.grimdawn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3597

Spoiler

Maybe it's more impressive in-game than it looks on paper.

 

[aris]

When will this shit end.