KickStarter Grim Dawn

[Zboj Lamignat]

Titan Quest had a very good char development model, it was really head and shoulders above what other hns games offered at the time. The presentation was very good, too. Unfortunately, the core gameplay was rather boring even for the genre and I was barely able to get through normal, let alone higher difficulties.

 

[Lacrymas]

The map is the worst aspect of GD, we've talked about this extensively.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The game can be extremely punishing to builds that are not well-thought out in advance.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you played the game? It's dogshit easy now and has been for a good while. Maybe if you think that punishing = you might not be able to beat one or two of the end game super bosses, yeah, but everything up to level 100 is a chore and a complete snoozefest and the end game activities aren't really that much harder unless you made a build that actively fights itself. And that's my opinion on the game one patch ago, the most recent patch made it even easier. Grim Dawn used to be my favorite ARPG back when it was still in EA and then released, back when it still had some sort of difficulty curve, but with the inclusion of two expansions and constant patching they've sabotaged the game. My guess is that it's because Medierra (the original GD dev, who also worked on TQ) gave Zantai free reign over GD's design for the past few years.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you played the game? It's dogshit easy now and has been for a good while. Maybe if you think that punishing = you might not be able to beat one or two of the end game super bosses, yeah, but everything up to level 100 is a chore and a complete snoozefest and the end game activities aren't really that much harder unless you made a build that actively fights itself. And that's my opinion on the game one patch ago, the most recent patch made it even easier. Grim Dawn used to be my favorite ARPG back when it was still in EA and then released, back when it still had some sort of difficulty curve, but with the inclusion of two expansions and constant patching they've sabotaged the game. My guess is that it's because Medierra (the original GD dev, who also worked on TQ) gave Zantai free reign over GD's design for the past few years.

Still better than Titan quest's balance, Dream and cunning were over the top OP.
Grim dawn was ridiculously easy compared to titan quest obviously

 

[Hobo Elf]

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you played the game? It's dogshit easy now and has been for a good while. Maybe if you think that punishing = you might not be able to beat one or two of the end game super bosses, yeah, but everything up to level 100 is a chore and a complete snoozefest and the end game activities aren't really that much harder unless you made a build that actively fights itself. And that's my opinion on the game one patch ago, the most recent patch made it even easier. Grim Dawn used to be my favorite ARPG back when it was still in EA and then released, back when it still had some sort of difficulty curve, but with the inclusion of two expansions and constant patching they've sabotaged the game. My guess is that it's because Medierra (the original GD dev, who also worked on TQ) gave Zantai free reign over GD's design for the past few years.

Still better than Titan quest's balance, Dream and cunning were over the top OP.

I'd rather have one mastery break the difficulty than the game be so easy that all the masteries feel OP.

 

[Lacrymas]

They increased the difficulty of the starting zone considerably a few patches ago. Unless you have the item collection to twink every char you make, it isn't easy. If you find normal (veteran) too easy, start on Elite or Ultimate with a lvl 1 char.

 

[Hobo Elf]

They increased the difficulty of the starting zone considerably a few patches ago. Unless you have the item collection to twink every char you make, it isn't easy. If you find normal (veteran) too easy, start on Elite or Ultimate with a lvl 1 char.

And they made it easier again by buffing all low level items :^)

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

The game can be extremely punishing to builds that are not well-thought out in advance.

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you played the game? It's dogshit easy now and has been for a good while. Maybe if you think that punishing = you might not be able to beat one or two of the end game super bosses, yeah, but everything up to level 100 is a chore and a complete snoozefest and the end game activities aren't really that much harder unless you made a build that actively fights itself. And that's my opinion on the game one patch ago, the most recent patch made it even easier. Grim Dawn used to be my favorite ARPG back when it was still in EA and then released, back when it still had some sort of difficulty curve, but with the inclusion of two expansions and constant patching they've sabotaged the game. My guess is that it's because Medierra (the original GD dev, who also worked on TQ) gave Zantai free reign over GD's design for the past few years.

I mean, it's OK to find the game easy out of context, but compared to pretty much every classic hns I've tried GD is definitely on the more difficult side.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

And they made it easier again by buffing all low level items :^)

I prefer how difficulty was designed in Titan quest, it hasn't elite or Ultimate. But if you wanted to increase the difficulty , you can play a mage ( way harder or mix 2 skills that don't mix well for example (earth and spirit)).

 

[Lacrymas]

Titan Quest does have 3 difficulty levels. And I agree going through even normal was a slog.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

I think i finished 56 times Titan Quest and i still love playing it ,in Grim dawn 1 time was enough for me.

 

[Hobo Elf]

Titan Quest has also been rebalanced with the Anniversary Edition which made it a lot harder. They changed passive skills that gave DA% into a flat bonus (Haruspex isn't so no-brained OP anymore), put a cap on dodge and recharge, made Bleed and Vitality main resistances so that they now also suffer difficulty level penalties, which just serves to make gearing up your character less straightforward. Now the game has a visible difficulty curve when you play through the campaign, which I greatly appreciate. The new Ragnarok and Atlantis acts also have some really nasty enemies.
Grim Dawn doesn't. It just has extremely self-indulgent HP bloat boss fights that make the experience feel like it drags on far longer than it should.

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

Titan Quest has also been rebalanced with the Anniversary Edition which made it a lot harder. They changed passive skills that gave DA% into a flat bonus (Haruspex isn't so no-brained OP anymore), put a cap on dodge and recharge, made Bleed and Vitality main resistances so that they now also suffer difficulty level penalties, which just serves to make gearing up your character less straightforward. Now the game has a visible difficulty curve when you play through the campaign, which I greatly appreciate. The new Ragnarok and Atlantis acts also have some really nasty enemies.

I can't get into grim dawn , as a Titan quest's Fan, i'm not the only one, i know many who were dissapointed of Grim Dawn . I wanted to give a chance to this game.
Edit : you are 100 % right
I hope they will improve and make Grim Dawn 2( somehing really extraordinary as a diablo clone) or another IP.

 

[Outmind]

I've started Grim Dawn about 3 times. Farthest I got was the end of normal difficulty, just before the Malmouth expansion. Lie others have said, here's something about Titan Quest that makes the same kind of slog more bearable, although that was way too long even without the underworld and Atlantis and whatnot.

 

[Turuko]

anyone tried the Diablo 2 conversion mod?
considering it has D2 classes + GD masteries the page for the combined names is hilarious

 

[HoboForEternity]

played more for up to 5 hours. yeah. the genre isn't for me definitely. it felt like it's starting to get good but it immediately get back to boring. i do not like the combat at all. for an action RPG, the "action" feel pretty weak. you mostly spend your time clicking main attack buttons and occasionally some hotkeys. barely any movement options. you either kite your enemies, or tank them while you watch enemies HP bar drops. it feels like solo, more boring and tiring version of rtwp combat.

i guess console / 3rd Person ARPG is more of my style. something like Gothic/ Ys /souls type of ARPG. there are ranges of movement options, sometimes you have blocking, parrying, etc. diablo like "A" RPG is basically like MOBA gameplay but you click each attack manually.

the loot is fine i guess. i thought i hated random loot, but i actually tolerate Nioh's.

 

[RuySan]

Does anyone plays this with a gamepad? Because it's pretty awesome. Feels like Gauntlet on meth and steroids, even though some classes aren't suited to it, but anything melee it's great.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

As far as difficulty how does TQ OR GD compare to say Diablo - the Hell or HD Diablo Tchenobog/Belzebub?

 

[Lacrymas]

barely any movement options.

There are a lot of movement options within the masteries and you can always get more from the second expansion's merchants. Maybe try another mastery?

 

[Duralux for Durabux]

There are a lot of movement options within the masteries and you can always get more from the second expansion's merchants. Maybe try another mastery?

Grim dawn needs the 2x time buffer like in Titan Quest.

 

[Lhynn]

Grim dawn is good but i don't know if it was me , i didn't appreciate that much.

Because its not good. Its generic and dull, feels like the Runes of Magic of diablo-likes.

Titan quest was really unique, back then i precommanded the game and his expension and my god, this was my best bought in video game. It was a real pleasure to play Titan Quest , Visiting Ancient Greece,Ancient Egypt ,Visiting the great wall of China, Ancient East, Kingdom of Hades was immensely satifying and amazing.The work put into the maps was massive and really impressive

Its alright, i didnt hate it, i found it annoying that skills were mostly procs, felt fairly passive. But i did like the setting and the mechanics worked to create some tense moments.

I didn't enyoy as much the map in Grim Dawn, in my opinion, it wasn't spectacular.

Grim dawn is a slog to get through, liked mostly by spergs that enjoy character building and cant appreciate gameplay or creative ideas.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Because its not good. Its generic and dull, feels like the Runes of Magic of diablo-likes.

You're entitled to an opinion.

Grim dawn is a slog to get through, liked mostly by spergs that enjoy character building and cant appreciate gameplay or creative ideas.

Sounds like you had a tough time of it. That's sad; you missed out on the best ARPG of all time. D2 might be the greatest, but GD is the best.

Who plays ARPGs for any other reason than character building?

The fact that you enjoyed TQ but hated GD is mind boggling to me. The differences are: 1) GD is smoother and more advanced in every conceivable way, technically; 2) GD features better masteries with more options creating greater build diversity; 3) the Devotion/Anointment systems, which further the depth; 4) an interesting take on Lovecraftian lore, as opposed to a hackneyed adaptation of real-world mythologies; and 5) a superior item game, with tiered uniques/legendaries/rares/super-rares that enable a - frankly - bewildering variety of play-styles.

Hobo Elf

You mention low difficulty as a factor in why TQ is a better game. I challenge you to play Ultimate Malmouth or - God help you - Crucible with anything less than 2,500DA and 80%+ resistances across the board. Normal is absolutely straightforward to blow through, but that's an intentional step-up to Elite and, particularly, Ultimate, where characters that feel OP in Normal go to die. The developers also made it possible to skip entire sections of the game (f.e. you can skip Act I in Elite/Ultimate, if you want, or even start the game on Ultimate) once you think your character can burn through content to the next difficulty level.

And if you're still keening for difficulty, try plumbing the Shattered Realms.

The greatness of this game is that difficulty depends on the end user. You can make it much, much harder for yourself, if you want to. It's a flexible experience.

 

[Lhynn]

Sounds like you had a tough time of it. That's sad; you missed out on the best ARPG of all time. D2 might be the greatest, but GD is the best.

Diablo is better. Diablo 2 is kind of shit, and features a bad character system. Thanks to it, skill threes have plagued rpgs for a long time.

Who plays ARPGs for any other reason than character building?

Jesus dude, ARPGs can have a ton of nuance. Games like Dins curse or the first bloodlust, or siege of avalon gave you things like exploration, puzzles, an actual interesting story with good writan, and a whole bunch of other things that GD simply lacks.

The fact that you enjoyed TQ but hated GD is mind boggling to me.

The environments are much more enjoyable in TQ, it truly feels like an adventure. Even diablo 1 looks better aesthetically speaking than this shit. And i said it was alright.

1) GD is smoother and more advanced in every conceivable way, technically

Muh advancement. Newer games are always better eh!

2) GD features better masteries with more options creating greater build diversity

Who gives a shit if the gameplay is garbage, and brother, the gameplay here is garbage. Victor Vran, the dead Marvel heroes, diablo 2, even path of exile and a bunch of other titles feature a much better game feel.

3) the Devotion/Anointment systems, which further the depth;

Blah blah blah. Go play underrail if you want to sperg about builds, it is much better in every conceivable way. Not that its the only one, there are hundreds of games with better, more interesting character building.

4) an interesting take on Lovecraftian lore, as opposed to a hackneyed adaptation of real-world mythologies

I saw none of that. But i only played like 12 hours of this shit. Show me something cool.

a superior item game, with tiered uniques/legendaries/rares/super-rares that enable a - frankly - bewildering variety of play-styles

You mean cool modifiers? Like what? Do you have skills from other classes available?

 

[DeepOcean]

GD is a mod for Diablo II with alot of complexity added but not all good, so opinions will vary depending on how tolerant someone is of Diablo II gameplay and how someone enjoys the good parts of the system.

You need to balance defense and offense, newbies just go over + damage until reaching Ultimate, so they underestimate the devotion constellations and defensive skills, thinking of the systems only of convoluted passive damage bonuses and then pretty much most late bosses one hit kill you, finding a balance to reach a workable character is fun, having a character that can reach the end of the last waves of the crucible is a big test, where shit gets ridiculous like all enemies being elite, managing to kill with ease celestial bosses, standind toe to toe against Nemesis bosses, dominating the rogue like dungeons that have some of the hardest and unique encounters on the game, the Shattered realms are even more ridiculous at later levels.

All of this with you getting ultra rare ingredients, rare monster infrequents loot and a shower of legendary weapons for you to make different builds, that is fun. The problem is the road to get there, with your first character, by the time you reach Ultimate, the game is tiresome, imagine that with a second or third chracter. The better content of the game is hidden behind a mountain of trashmobs, Crate didnt do a good job on the main path of the game, you play that mostly for the lore but you only see that one time and after that it gets repetitious, you are still forced to do it though.

The very fact that they introduced a way for you to skip the normal mode with the expansion shows how underwhelming in terms of gameplay the main path is. No wonder many newbies give up, many people dont even realize Grim Dawn has a very interesting lore because most of it is told through notes that many dont read, the dungeon of the last expansion is really great, the shattered realms also, but you need to withstand so much garbage to get there, if I had to kill yet another dinosaur...

Take Path of Exile, each new League, they add some little mechanics spread out all over the main path so newbies see alot of varied stuff, that didnt happen with Grim Dawn until recently with the addition of totems, and that was too little, too late.

Not to say the end game is all great, due to power creep and because Crate didnt rebalance the items, many epics and legendaries are useless while the recent introductions are powerful as fuck, so you will be overwhelmed with garbage. Got a nice legendary item at level 50? Congratulations, it will soon be useless. Got a really powerfull set that would work wonders on that level 10 arcanist? Sorry, you need to grind xp like an autist to get her to level 94 before using it. It is so ridiculous that the items you get for the most part on the main path are pretty mcuh useless by the time you get to level 100, making it even more pointless.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Diablo is better. Diablo 2 is kind of shit, and features a bad character system. Thanks to it, skill threes have plagued rpgs for a long time.

Don't know what to say to that. Apart from having a more focused experience, D2 does every single thing D1 did (and far more, besides), but better. I have never - at any point - wanted to go back to D1 after D2 came out.

Games like Dins curse

Please do not tell me you think that this is a better game than GD. Clunkfest 5000, with a gimmick that outwears its welcome in the first ten hours. The last game I bought from those people was Drox Operative, which was essentially the same thing in space.

an actual interesting story with good writan, and a whole bunch of other things that GD simply lacks.

Why, did you think that D1 had a 'interesting story with good writing'? Or Din's Curse? Again, who plays this genre for story?

Muh advancement. Newer games are always better eh!

Not at all - but this one is. Why strawman? In what way is GD not technically more advanced than TQ?

Who gives a shit if the gameplay is garbage, and brother, the gameplay here is garbage. Victor Vran, the dead Marvel heroes, diablo 2, even path of exile and a bunch of other titles feature a much better game feel.

I mean, that's laughable, and I've played all of the above. Victor Vran is a glorified stick shooter, Marvel Heroes was completely mindless (and fun, but mindless, nonetheless - the itemization in that game was utter garbage) and PoE is fine, but a live service game, which has benefited enormously from its business model and almost a decade of iteration. And if GD's gameplay is bad, how do you see PoE being better, exactly? It plays even faster and a successful build is - for all intents and purposes - a blender, where the only skill element is juggling potions. Or, in the case of its most successful build of the previous season, literally walk around doing nothing while your minion horde kills everything from a screen away.

Go play underrail if you want to sperg about builds, it is much better in every conceivable way. Not that its the only one, there are hundreds of games with better, more interesting character building.

Go read a book if you want an interesting story. That's about as good a piece of advice as you just gave me. 'LOL, go play a completely different genre to get your ARPG fix, bro'.

I saw none of that. But i only played like 12 hours of this shit. Show me something cool.

What's not cool about a post-apocalyptic scenario in which Lovecraft's Old Ones battle an eldritch invasion of alien entities, whilst a clutch of native gods scrap to keep what they have? And then there's you - a member of a ragged band of survivors - caught in the middle. That's about as much effort as I'm willing to go to in order to convince you that the setting is a good one.

You mean cool modifiers? Like what? Do you have skills from other classes available?

There are proc/item skills aplenty, if that's your thing. There are also skill modifiers, which fundamentally change a mastery skill. They can change damage type, range, area of effect, function, VFX... pretty much everything about the skill.