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Incline Grid Cartographer - Best Tool for Drawing Classic RPG Maps

Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,523
You know if you Kickstarted v2 you could bring in a bucket full of $$$s. You wouldn't even need to have many tiers, just a few like a "basic", "deluxe", and "boxed" version. Yeah, I know a boxed version really isn't necessarily :oops: .

:lol:
Your addiction to "boxed" versions knows no bounds.
Hey, everybody likes to hold a nice box in their hands!


:(
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
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Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You know if you Kickstarted v2 you could bring in a bucket full of $$$s. You wouldn't even need to have many tiers, just a few like a "basic", "deluxe", and "boxed" version. Yeah, I know a boxed version really isn't necessarily :oops: .

:lol:
Your addiction to "boxed" versions knows no bounds.
Hey, everybody likes to hold a nice box in their hands!


:(

Was that a joke........?

:troll:
 

Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,523
You know if you Kickstarted v2 you could bring in a bucket full of $$$s. You wouldn't even need to have many tiers, just a few like a "basic", "deluxe", and "boxed" version. Yeah, I know a boxed version really isn't necessarily :oops: .

:lol:
Your addiction to "boxed" versions knows no bounds.
Hey, everybody likes to hold a nice box in their hands!


:(

Was that a joke........?

:troll:
Do you need a little hand-holding to guess?
:troll:
 

Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
Hidden Asbestos tablet? iPad only or android? I would love to use such thing on my nexus 7.
Well you're in luck. My target platforms for v2.0 release are Windows / Linux and Android Tablets (phones are probably not a good fit but I'm working to an 800px min so you might be okay if you're dextrous and patient). There is no plan right now for a Mac OS or iPad port, but I always say it would be a nice thing if it happened one day.

Anyway while indeed v1 is on Google Play - for Android v2 I'll also be moving to distributing an APK file myself. This allows me to unify the license, meaning if you buy a copy of Grid Cartographer you can use it on all platforms. It should also mean that Kindle Fire owners can probably use this thing as well (can anyone confirm if a Kindle Fire allows sideloading APK files? my brief research says they should) and if you just want a taster the Free edition will be available in exactly the same way as the desktop.

Anyone buying v1 from Google Play now will be entitled to the same $5 upgrade to v2 as owners of the desktop version. If you own both (before v2 launches) then you're a cool person and get a v2 upgrade for free. Please keep your order number though so I can join the dots ! I'll be processing v1 -> v2 upgrades manually and I don't get much customer info from Google.
 

Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
gc2-ui-alpha-6-50pct.png


Hey, it's been a while since my last post. Here's what I've been working on - a completely rewritten custom tile system based on single images. Using the new layer system makes the number of tiles needed for this Lords of Midnight map a lot smaller than what you can achieve in v1.

A little more info here:
http://www.davidwaltersdevelopment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1283&p=1493#p1493
 

Nyast

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
609
Do you have a release date for v2 ?

How big can maps be ? 100 x 100 ? 1000 x 1000 or even more ?
 

Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
Do you have a release date for v2 ?
Hi, I don't have a precise release date for v2 at the moment but the end is in sight. Annoyingly the main things left to do are relatively boring and won't make for good screenshots - such as fixing the image export which was broken by the major changes to the map format and new door types, and adding in the new options menus for settings and grid setup. What's likely is I'll go quiet for a bit now and then just release it :)

Since you asked and I've been a bit vague I will give a tentative 'no promises' date of some time in April, all being well. I'm planning to launch the versions as they're done too, so Windows first then moving onto Linux and then Android afterwards. Android will probably be last since there is the most to fix up there. I don't want to sit on the Windows version while I do that though. Also, a reminder that a v2 license key will work for all platforms once they're released.

From there I have a number of cool extra features planned as free updates for v2.x which I will talk more about after launch. The main v2.x addition I've already revealed elsewhere are 'regions' which are tabbed floor stacks within the same map file, very similar to the workbook model that Excel uses. This opens up the possibility for making tools to assist pen&paper roleplaying - e.g. one that creates a duplicate of the current region with all the hidden doors removed as a 'player' version of a GM's map. I hope to get started on this stuff soon!

How big can maps be ? 100 x 100 ? 1000 x 1000 or even more ?
Fundamental to the program is that maps can be any size in area and floor count so long as you have RAM for it. There is no hard limit imposed by the software so technically you can say "infinite" but I've never heard from anyone with a map larger than about 128x128, so I'm not sure about any performance bottlenecks that you might find as the map grows larger. I'm certainly interested in optimisation if you find that editing huge maps is an issue. v2 is a little bit quicker than v1 already but I've never had any slowdowns reported so it's not been a major focus compared to adding new features.
 

Nyast

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
609
Thanks for the answers. I was asking cause I'm an indy game dev and I have a project in mind where the world would be 1024 x 1024. Atm the map's in ascii but I can't continue forever without a map editor and your tool seems perfect for what I want to do. Looking forward to it :)
 

Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
Thanks for the answers. I was asking cause I'm an indy game dev and I have a project in mind where the world would be 1024 x 1024. Atm the map's in ascii but I can't continue forever without a map editor and your tool seems perfect for what I want to do. Looking forward to it :)
Cool. Always happy to support indie developers :) Did you know that v1 pro edition has an XML and binary export function already which you may find useful? I used it to make this little demo "game" here: http://www.davidwaltersdevelopment.com/tools/gridcart/flash.php

I should let you know though that the exported data in v2 will likely be quite different, so you may want to hold back on using v1 exported data at this point.

I look forward to hearing how you get on with a 1024 square map!
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
10,098
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Looks really good, and getting better with each update.
What language / which UI library do you use? It all looks very smooth, so I kind of doubt it's Visual Basic ;)
Or anything MS related as it runs on all platforms.
 

Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
Looks really good, and getting better with each update.
What language / which UI library do you use? It all looks very smooth, so I kind of doubt it's Visual Basic ;)
Or anything MS related as it runs on all platforms.
Hi and thanks, you're too kind :)

(please excuse the somewhat rambling wall of text below, hope it answers your question!)

I developed Grid Cartographer v1.0 using C++ and DirectX9 in Visual Studio 2008 using my 'haEngine' (Hidden Asbestos Engine) as a foundation which is simply a collection of utility classes and functionality that I've built up over years of making little game projects and keeping the reusable parts of the code in working order. For this project haEngine lets me easily do things like draw flat shaded and textured rectangles and coloured lines which is really all you need to make a nice UI. It's also more like a game engine in that it redraws the whole screen every frame from within a single resizeable window. It's just that this looks like an art tool, not an FPS.

There isn't a named UI library at work here other than the Windows common controls for stuff like message boxes. For the most part I'm just drawing little textures for the icons and framing stuff with shaded rectangles and generally handling it all myself. It's how I like to make software and gives me the flexibility that I might otherwise lose from using a 3rd party solution. This is a somewhat questionable approach in the face of things available today (Qt, Unity, etc.) but I feel it has made development a lot faster for me since I'm much better at coding my own solutions than reading documentation and figuring out how to use (a potentially more powerful) library or tool. Knowing how everything works definitely helps when bugs occur too.

When the Linux version came along I switched in GTK to replace the native Windows calls for message boxes, menus and file selectors, and on Android I used the native O/S message boxes on there in a similar way. This time also coding my own menu system as a scrolling list for touch compatability. Everything else on those 2 platforms is OpenGL rendering, again very much a game engine approach and doing the same basic texture rectangle stuff to build up the UI.

In version 2 I've definitely got a lot more UI going on now but it's no different technologically. It's actually simpler since by removing the need for a native menu system I'm in control of even more stuff. This new UI was done to unify the desktop and touch versions and has meant I've needed to code up the ribbon style toolbars you see today. This isn't too hard to do though, it was actually way harder to try and make it look pretty (hope I've succeeded!) than it was to code. Removing the native menu system also makes porting to new platforms a bit easier too and ensures a consistent experience across all devices / platforms.

I'm soon about find out how much of a cliff making MacOSX work with my haEngine is :)
 
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thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
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Messages
10,098
Location
Tampere, Finland
Codex 2012 Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Damn, and here I was hoping that there was a magical switch that I could apply which would make my Qt app (SR5 character generator in the works) that modern.
Ah, well, functionality first, then I can take care of good looks.

it was actually way harder to try and make it look pretty than it was to code
I feel ya! ;)

Also, you should definitely use OpenGL on all platforms. The times in which DirectX was faster are long gone, and even if it was true, you do nothing that would be very demanding on today's (or even some years old) graphics hardware. We do the same for our project (no, not the SR5 one, an actual game, rather demanding GPU & CPU wise) and it saves a lot of trouble.
IMO the only reason to use DirectX today would be if you need bleeding edge technology, which you probably don't ;)
 
Last edited:

Spaceman Spiff

Educated
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
33
Greetings!
I'm currently playing and mapping Dungeon Master and was wondering:
Is it not possible to draw ground tiles and walls separately in block-based-door mode?
 

Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
Damn, and here I was hoping that there was a magical switch that I could apply which would make my Qt app (SR5 character generator in the works) that modern.
Ah, well, functionality first, then I can take care of good looks.
I absolutely agree. Feel free to try out v1.0.0 of Grid Cartographer to see that it was a functional map making tool first and the fancier UI stuff come in much later. The continued development to get to this point wouldn't have been possible without starting off with this and, of course, the support of the community to help me grow the thing into what you see today.

Good luck with your project!

Greetings!
I'm currently playing and mapping Dungeon Master and was wondering:
Is it not possible to draw ground tiles and walls separately in block-based-door mode?
Hi Spaceman! It is kinda possible to mix the two wall modes in v1 by switching back and forth in the Edit > Preferences menu but there are some limitations when it comes to sharing edges with the block doors that you will need v2 to overcome. YMMV.

The good news is that that stuff has been totally flattened into allowing edge and block based walls and doors wherever you want, like this: http://www.davidwaltersdevelopment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1283#p1480
 

Spaceman Spiff

Educated
Joined
May 3, 2013
Messages
33
Oh I see. Thanks for clarifying.
Switching modes is in fact what I've been doing so far, but it's not that convenient.
But the new version and features are exactly what I was hoping for, just awesome!
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
Patron
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
4,534
Location
Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I have no idea what my Fastspring order number is but want to upgrade to v2... :cry:

Edit: Nevermind, I was able to find it buried in my emails from almost a year ago. Can't believe this has been out that long!

2nd Edit: Just got the upgrade version and........LOVE IT!

Everything just seems so much easier and user friendly and just playing around for a few minutes my map looked great. There's no classic cRPG game now that I can't map using this! Now you need to somehow incorporate cave walls.

Regardless, this was well worth the price... :thumbsup:
 
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Hidden Asbestos

Grid Cartographer
Developer
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
504
Location
UK
aww shucks, glad you like it :) I'll have a think about cave walls for later but now it's time to take a bite of the Apple ;-)
 

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