Grand Theft Auto: A story of Incline and then Decline?

[NecroLord]

Wasn't that unlocked with the purchase of sunset autos though?

Yeah, sunshine autos.

 

[Lucumo]

Speaking of money: I never got the argument by "gaming journalists" that you are rewarded for killing random people. How I saw it was that the money dropped by people was simply what they had on their hands at the time.

 

[AndyS]

I enjoyed the series greatly up until around San Andreas. I still had fun with that one but the game imposing demands on you to stop for food (apparently inspired by the British devs being mystified by how often Americans get drive-thru meals) and such was a prelude to the crap that they were going to force on players in 4. I never finished 4 and I still haven't even tried 5 even I acquired it for free somehow.

 

[El Presidente]

I think this guy gets it, if you can stomach his demeanour:

Ahhh yes, this guy. The guy that went "you know, all these highly opinionated gamer youtube channels are cool and all but you know what they're all missing? The creator bouncing on a gym ball in front of the video with green screen. What if I fill this big gap in humanity's cultural output, should I carry this burden myself?"

 

[adddeed]

Enjoyed GTA2 a lot, played it a ton.
GTA3 was fun for a bit, but i remember installing Mafia and realizing how much better it is than GTA3, in pretty much everything.
Didnt play another GTA game since.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS GAME RETARDS LIBERAL JOURNALLITS DONT GET IT

AND CHRISTARDS CONSERVATIVES DIDNT GET IT EITHER

GAMES ARE ESCAPISM YOU FUCK THE PROSTITUTE THEN KILL HER AND GET YOUR MONEY BACK ONLY BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY WOULD NEVER GET A PROSTITUT OR KILL SOMEONE IN REAL LIFE

A PERFECT GAME WOULD ALLOW YOU TO BE A FLAMING FAG TRAIN WHO KILLS EVERYONE IN THE NAME OF JESUS OUR LORD AND FOLLOW SOME WEIRD ASS CULT STORY SIDE MISSION

CHOICES AND CONSEQUENCE IF YOU WANNA BE A TRANNY WITH NO CHARISMA PEOPLE THINK YOU ARE A FREAK

A TRAIN WITH HIGH CHARISMA SEDUCES NPCS THAN BLACKMAILS THEM

 

[Falksi]

Funnily enough I recently replayed The Warriors, a game which I utterly loved back in the day and was really looking forward to returning to. Unfortunately, it's aged like ass to play, and the dated controls, mechanics and feel really drag it down. Huge shame as the atmosphere and story aspects are pretty damn fine. One of the few games I'd be happy to see remade.

 

[orcinator]

All of R*'s open world games have the same gameplay formula: an inherently shitty third person shooter that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.
Thus while it's true the games became more and more linear over time most discussion about which one is the best depends on what you played first as the novelty of shooting cops and doing tutorials for half the game wears thin. (unless it was the 2d ones, which didn't have much in the way of novelty since all had was crappy driving and shooting though featureless streets).

Also this is why most of the clones are shit, they don't have the resources to give you the full movie experience and still stick to being a bad TPS so they're not fun to actually play.

 

[Modron]

All of R*'s open world games have the same gameplay formula: an inherently shitty third person shooter that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

*Bully was a different take on the formula and one of their best outings.

 

[Hellraiser]

For me the driving, car chases and general road mayhem were the appeal and IMO core of the gameplay system of the series with the shootan and on foot action the tacked-on part.



I mean the original GTA did start life as a racing game project for the Amiga IIRC, then they realized via playtesting the cop chases were a great idea to turn it into something else.

 

[orcinator]

All of R*'s open world games have the same gameplay formula: an inherently shitty third person shooter that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

*Bully was a different take on the formula and one of their best outings.

Yeah, an inherently shitty beat em up that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

 

[JarlFrank]

MDickie's School Days (and his upcoming Old School) are far better games than Bully

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I loved Grand Theft Auto 2 on the PC. Had some demo of it that came with one of those PC gaming magazines like PC Gamer or Computer Gaming Monthly and me and my friends would play just that fucking demo all the time for a while. Game was fantastic. At least on PC anyways. Played like total fucking shit on consoles.

GTA3 came out a couple years later and one of my friends that had a PS2 bought it up right away. The perspective change was definitely novel, (and it sure helped sell GTA more than the top-down view) but the gameplay wasn’t anywhere near as strong as what DMA Design was able to do with their top-down. I never really gave much of a shit about that PS2 era of GTA games. There was definitely novelty to being about to just fuck around in the open world sandbox. But the gameplay of that PS2 era fucking sucked. The games were largely shit. The best of that PS2/Xbox era being San Andreas. The shooting in San Andreas is the best of that set of GTA games, the new stat system was interesting, and just all the shit they give you to do within the sandbox made it the most interesting. It also had a co-op multiplayer, which while extremely wonky (there’s a reason it’s hidden behind a code) was still fun to fuck around with.

GTA4 is easily the best GTA from a gameplay perspective since GTA4. It’s got the best shooting, the best melee combat, the best driving, the best enemy AI, and the best “stage” layouts of any of the 3D GTA games. It’s only probably is the fucking annoy friends system where it feels like you’re getting called every two second to play minigames that are embarrassingly bad give the money Rockstar has to throw around. Like, Rockstar has the money to where they should’ve been able to have one of the best Pool video games within GTA4. Lost and Damn had similar problems with it “ride in formation” bullshit. But Gay Tony was like fun GTA being injected into GTA4’s great systems.

GTA5 was oddly a huge step backward in a gameplay sense. Shooting wasn’t a good. Melee combat wasn’t a good. You couldn’t interact with the environment as much. Enemy AI and AI in general got dumber. You couldn’t flip a car anymore, which you might think it good, (if you’re stupid) but having that kind of thing happen it a wrinkle that can make chases with the police more fun. This goes back to Enemy AI, but police chases got dumber and less fun. There was less random shit to around the city. And there were less buildings you could go inside. The real plus it has over GTA4, which is why people seem to think it’s better, is it doing have the annoying fucking friend thing. And that is a plus. But Rockstar seemed to torpedo every aspect of the gameplay for GTA Online. Like the only reason I can assume they’d remove being able to rollover a car is because people might get pissed if they spent real money on their video game car and accidental blew the fucker up in a chase. GTA5 also seems unfinished, despite all the fucking money they dumped into it, and that’s likely because of GTA Online too. I’m sure the whole point of Trevor Philips and Trevor Philips Industries was to be able to have some drug empire game you could play at some point and it was just never added into the game. I thought that when the game came out, and I thought it even more when running a drug business was added into GTA Online three years after GTA5 came out.

Something I miss that could do in GTA4 is, you used to be able to re-enact that scene in Sin City where Marv crashes the car off the wharf, smashes through the windshield, and swims away. You used to be able to do that in GTA4. Was fun to use to get away in a chase.

---

When it comes to this particular open world sandbox style game I like the first Crackdown, (made by the guy that created GTA) the Mercenaries games, and Just Cause 2 more.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

All of R*'s open world games have the same gameplay formula: an inherently shitty third person shooter that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

*Bully was a different take on the formula and one of their best outings.

Yeah, an inherently shitty beat em up that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

It’s basically just their version of River City Ransom. It’s not as good as River City Ransom, but Bully definitely seems like it’s meant to be Rockstar’s version of River City Ransom. It is kind of interesting that it and Persona 3 come about the same year, since they’re both (albeit in different ways) doing time management stuff structured around school.

Although yeah, it’s a pretty shit beat ‘em up. Rockstar almost never did anything it tried it’s hand at all that well. The stealth in their stealth game Manhunt was fucking shit too. Bully’s shit game because even more glaring given it comes out at the tail end of getting games like Def Jam: Fight for NY, Urban Reign, Shadow of Rome, God Hand, Yakuza, and Dead Rising.

It would definitely be interesting if Rockstar got Yuke's post the AKI influenced AEW Fight Forever to do some new beat ‘em up for them. Someone at Rockstar definitely had an interest in beat ‘em ups given they made two, and were at one point planning to make more.

I’ve never really been a fan of Rockstar. But I do miss the days when Rockstar tried different things. They’re just so fucking boring now. I wonder if some high schooler today, or middle school kid today even thinks of Rockstar like some kid in the 2000s did. Sure, Rockstar has big games still. Red Dead Redemption 2 was a hit a few years ago. But they don’t have the presents they once did since they barely do anything anymore. At least it seems that way. They don’t seem to be cool like they once were. They definitely aren’t “dangerous” like they used to be.

 

[BLOBERT]

I loved Grand Theft Auto 2 on the PC. Had some demo of it that came with one of those PC gaming magazines like PC Gamer or Computer Gaming Monthly and me and my friends would play just that fucking demo all the time for a while. Game was fantastic. At least on PC anyways. Played like total fucking shit on consoles.

GTA3 came out a couple years later and one of my friends that had a PS2 bought it up right away. The perspective change was definitely novel, (and it sure helped sell GTA more than the top-down view) but the gameplay wasn’t anywhere near as strong as what DMA Design was able to do with their top-down. I never really gave much of a shit about that PS2 era of GTA games. There was definitely novelty to being about to just fuck around in the open world sandbox. But the gameplay of that PS2 era fucking sucked. The games were largely shit. The best of that PS2/Xbox era being San Andreas. The shooting in San Andreas is the best of that set of GTA games, the new stat system was interesting, and just all the shit they give you to do within the sandbox made it the most interesting. It also had a co-op multiplayer, which while extremely wonky (there’s a reason it’s hidden behind a code) was still fun to fuck around with.

GTA4 is easily the best GTA from a gameplay perspective since GTA4. It’s got the best shooting, the best melee combat, the best driving, the best enemy AI, and the best “stage” layouts of any of the 3D GTA games. It’s only probably is the fucking annoy friends system where it feels like you’re getting called every two second to play minigames that are embarrassingly bad give the money Rockstar has to throw around. Like, Rockstar has the money to where they should’ve been able to have one of the best Pool video games within GTA4. Lost and Damn had similar problems with it “ride in formation” bullshit. But Gay Tony was like fun GTA being injected into GTA4’s great systems.

GTA5 was oddly a huge step backward in a gameplay sense. Shooting wasn’t a good. Melee combat wasn’t a good. You couldn’t interact with the environment as much. Enemy AI and AI in general got dumber. You couldn’t flip a car anymore, which you might think it good, (if you’re stupid) but having that kind of thing happen it a wrinkle that can make chases with the police more fun. This goes back to Enemy AI, but police chases got dumber and less fun. There was less random shit to around the city. And there were less buildings you could go inside. The real plus it has over GTA4, which is why people seem to think it’s better, is it doing have the annoying fucking friend thing. And that is a plus. But Rockstar seemed to torpedo every aspect of the gameplay for GTA Online. Like the only reason I can assume they’d remove being able to rollover a car is because people might get pissed if they spent real money on their video game car and accidental blew the fucker up in a chase. GTA5 also seems unfinished, despite all the fucking money they dumped into it, and that’s likely because of GTA Online too. I’m sure the whole point of Trevor Philips and Trevor Philips Industries was to be able to have some drug empire game you could play at some point and it was just never added into the game. I thought that when the game came out, and I thought it even more when running a drug business was added into GTA Online three years after GTA5 came out.

Something I miss that could do in GTA4 is, you used to be able to re-enact that scene in Sin City where Marv crashes the car off the wharf, smashes through the windshield, and swims away. You used to be able to do that in GTA4. Was fun to use to get away in a chase.

---

When it comes to this particular open world sandbox style game I like the first Crackdown, (made by the guy that created GTA) the Mercenaries games, and Just Cause 2 more.

BRO YOU MUST LIVEIN MY BRIAN CAUSE I AGREE EXACTLY WITH YOU ESPECIALLY ABOUT CRACKDOWN MERCENARIES AND JUST CAUSE 2

 

[Falksi]

Only played Mercenaries 2 out of that series, but that was a hoot. Crackdown was cool too.

But honestly, Saints Row 4 was where the formula peaked for me. Pure OTT chaos. I'd love to see that type of Superhero formula applied to a Vice City type world with a more steady/slow progression from mortal to God. Essentially Morrowind Vice City.

 

[BLOBERT]

RED FACTION GEURILLA WAS ANOTHER FUN ONE JUST TOTALLY WRECKING SHIT

 

[911 Jumper]

The interesting thing about Rockstar and GTA is that even after all these years, GTA doesn't have any real competition. True Crime, Driver, Sleepy Dogs, The Getaway, Just Cause,Watch Dogs, Crackdown, Saint's Row, Mafia – all are either dead or on hiatus. I suppose Cyberpunk is a new challenger, sort of, but I don't think Rockstar has anything to worry about.

 

[JarlFrank]

Saints Row was a serious competitor at one point - specifically when SR2 and SR3 came out.
After SR3 they just leaned too hard into the goofy aspect and turned the series into some kind of superhero comedy show. And then the reboot completely shit the bed, which it didn't have to: the fans told Volition exactly what they wanted. Just make another SR2 or SR3. Just take the best elements of those two games and make the same type of fun GTA clone again.

Instead they made a shitty dumbed down version that lacked half the features of SR2 and 3, while adding obnoxious SJW writing to the mix.

Complete self-own.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I can understand preferring Vice City due the setting and story
But in no way is it better than San Andreas from a game design standpoint
SA has the best map, more weapons, more vehicles, more activities, a cool stat system and whackier more fun missions

All of R*'s open world games have the same gameplay formula: an inherently shitty third person shooter that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

*Bully was a different take on the formula and one of their best outings.

Yeah, an inherently shitty beat em up that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

R* open world games in the PS2 era, are primarly sandbox experiences
It's the diversity of activities and ways you can fuck around with the world that are the focus - not any particular mechanic such as combat
The main of the main missions is to further expand on the content available to the player
The range of shit you can do in Bully is pretty wide and all of it fun, that's what makes it great and still to this date the best R* game
And the combat fine, serves its purpose

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

It is definitely weird nobody else really tries to, not even really compete, but just get in on all the money GTA makes. Especially now. Not even the Online money, but the massive amounts of money the single player makes. Now would even make more sense given GTA makes even more money than before, and there hasn’t been a new GTA in ten years. When people were trying to complete before there was a new GTA almost every year; with the longest period between games being the almost four years between the last GTA4 DLC and GTA5...and Red Dead Redemption and Undead Nightmare came out like half a year after the final GTA4 stuff.

Funnily the most consistent “competition” GTA has really had over the years is Assassin’s Creed and the open world Spider-Man games from Activision and now Sony. I’m almost kind of surprised nobody’s really tried it but with much different settings.

Like there is Assassin’s Creed, which has always been pretty open world. And there is Elder Scrolls, and those are open world, but they’ve also got system trappings that make it different too. But nobody has really just tried doing fantasy “GTA” to kind of merge GTA and Elder Scrolls. Nobody has really tried doing post-apocalyptic GTA despite Fallout being pretty big the last 15 years...there was that Mad Max game, but I don’t think that really had any towns. Nobody has done a sci-fi space GTA; that Star Wars Outlaws game seems like it might kind of be that, but we’re also coming up on 22 years of 3D GTA now. Nobody has really done a retrofuturism GTA knockoff (and retrofuturism is what GTA2 was) the closest you kind of get is the brand new updated Cyberpunk 2077.

I’m almost surprised we never really got a GTA knockoff open world sandbox game out of Japan that focused more on melee combat instead of guns, (that doesn’t even mean no guns, you’d just de-emphasize them) a kind of GTA beat ‘em up. Japan kind of toyed with it in the mid 2000s, but they always seemed to favor smaller zones without the same degree of freedom. They were more modern 3D versions of River City Ransom as opposed to beat ‘em up version of GTA.

 

[Häyhä]

How come we haven't got this legendary piece here yet:

 

[Modron]

I’m almost kind of surprised nobody’s really tried it but with much different settings.

Hogwarts Legacy and Ghost of Tsushima don't count? Rustler for a medieval 2D gta. I almost forgot Lego City Undercover.

I’m almost surprised we never really got a GTA knockoff open world sandbox game out of Japan that focused more on melee combat instead of guns, (that doesn’t even mean no guns, you’d just de-emphasize them) a kind of GTA beat ‘em up.

Yakuzas are more Shenmue inspired but aren't they close enough to what you want (especially the Dragon Engine ones that had seemless combat encounters)? Not sure if Rise of the Ronin is more of a Assassin's Creed inspired affair but it should fit your conditions. Where Winds Meet for a Chinese take on open worlds.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I can understand preferring Vice City due the setting and story
But in no way is it better than San Andreas from a game design standpoint
SA has the best map, more weapons, more vehicles, more activities, a cool stat system and whackier more fun missions

All of R*'s open world games have the same gameplay formula: an inherently shitty third person shooter that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

*Bully was a different take on the formula and one of their best outings.

Yeah, an inherently shitty beat em up that compensates for it's flaws through novelty.

R* open world games in the PS2 era, are primarly sandbox experiences
It's the diversity of activities and ways you can fuck around with the world that are the focus - not any particular mechanic such as combat
The main of the main missions is to further expand on the content available to the player
The range of shit you can do in Bully is pretty wide and all of it fun, that's what makes it great and still to this date the best R* game
And the combat fine, serves its purpose

I wouldn’t say it was all fun. When I rented Bully, I definitely did hit a “what the fuck am I doing” point when I was mowing. It wasn’t even like some fun mini-game dressed up as mowing, it wasn’t like come Crazy Taxi version of mowing, it was just mowing. Like I’ve got a real fucking lawn I’ve got to mow once a week, I don’t want to mow digital grass. That’s the kind of thing where it’s like, maybe just handle that job like Monster Rancher handled jobs, and give me a little animation that pops up of Bully Guy on a mower and have time skip ahead however much time depending on the job. That or make a fun mini-game out of it.

 

[NecroLord]

Only played Mercenaries 2 out of that series, but that was a hoot. Crackdown was cool too.

But honestly, Saints Row 4 was where the formula peaked for me. Pure OTT chaos. I'd love to see that type of Superhero formula applied to a Vice City type world with a more steady/slow progression from mortal to God. Essentially Morrowind Vice City.

That n'wah traitor Lance Vance!!