Grand Theft Auto: A story of Incline and then Decline?

[NecroLord]

Greetings.
What in your highly scientific gamer opinion did the GTA franchise done right? I find it interesting how many ignore the first entries in the series (I confess I rather like the top down perspective of 1 and 2 and the games as a whole, rough, rugged, you get the idea) and GTA 3, a game which is renown for its difficult missions.
Vice City needs no further introduction. It was a major hit and started the trend of Rockstar hiring movie stars to voice their characters (Burt Reynolds - RIP, Tom Sizemore - also RIP, Ray Liotta - ALSO RIP, Gary Busey, etc). A personal favorite, inspired by shows like Miami Vice and movies like Scarface it has style, flash, neon lights, glorious 80s setting and a near perfect soundtrack (VRock and Wave 101 are great).
Anyway, what do YOU think?
What are the great games of this franchise? Which are really bad?

 

[caffeine]

did the GTA franchise done right?

Did the GTA franchise do right* (from a fellow ESL to another)

I find it interesting how many ignore the first entries in the series (I confess I rather like the top down perspective of 1 and 2 and the games as a whole, rough, rugged, you get the idea) and GTA 3, a game which is renown for its difficult missions.

Younger people might ignore them but they set the foundations and made the series popular in the first place. Let's see, imo it was a case of right game in the right time, during that edgy era of gaming when the market was expanding and kids needed MATURE experiences that weren't Mario and Sonic. GTA 1 & 2 flew a little bit under the radar compared to something like Carmageddon, that's not to say they were total obscurities, but the lack of realist graphics help them avoid the same stigma, they were a bit of a dirty secret among gamers. I played the shit out of 1 even though I didn't understand what to do in the missions (I didn't know English back then and the game wasn't localized). I used cheats to visit other maps, spam cars, tanks, it felt very novel at the time, fun and crazy physics for a 2D overhead game, the radios, the realized city open world. Even with its outdated graphics it was a shock to see it with your eyes.

GTA 3 formalized and introduced the concept to a wider audience by virtue of having a lot of built-in hype + 3D world with realistic graphics that worked well right out of the bat. It looked like a modern game that for once wasn't restricted by technological limitations. It might not have been the first of it class (you could say Driver 2 plays like a very rudimentary GTA 3, not to mention some older PC titles) but it introduced an unknown concept of gaming to the mainstream, used to linear experiences.

Anyways, the last one I've enjoyed was Vice City. After VC I had enough of the GTA experience to last me a lifetime and I haven't touched a single installment that came afterwards.

 

[Aemar]

The ultimate normie holy grail, a series that has also been stalling since 2002. As an irony, I don't think 99% of these normies have played any of the pre-San Andreas entries, especially refering here to the first two releases from the 1990s.

The first two games are arcade-ishly fun. Vice City is essentially GTA 3 on steroids, the best game in the series imo. What comes after is copy pasted garbage.

 

[Lucumo]

Personally, I've played GTA -> GTA 2 -> Vice City -> San Andreas -> GTA III.

The first GTA I actually saw (and played a bit) at my best friend's house who temporarily swapped his N64 with a classmate's PS. It was certainly fun but rather shallow too. GTA 2 I played on my family's PC when I got a burned CD from a classmate which contained both entries as well as tons of other stuff (including emulated SNES games which I didn't know as a kid (there was some Sailor Moon beat 'em up which you could play together and one of the Dragon Ball Z RPG/card games which was untranslated)). It was as fun as the prequel and I played it a decent bit, exploring the world and finding secrets. When I got a burned copy of Vice City, I already had my own PC and I played it extensively over many months. The world was great, the style was great and the music was great. It was and is definitely the best part of the series. Afterwards, wanting to actually own the next release, I bought San Andreas....and it was garbage. What's in the game didn't resonate at all. I also heavily dislike rap & hip hop. And, not to mention, the game felt much more console-y than Vice City.
GTA IV I saw on a gaming channel on TV and what was shown (gameplay) was absolutely terrible. Like, the main character crashing through the windshield and the main character running up stairs, only to weirdly fall down which all looked broken as hell. Needless to say, something with these physics I would definitely never play. Vice City was basically perfect when it came to moving around, whether on foot or by car. GTA IV completely trashed that. GTA V I didn't even bother paying attention to. GTA III I played at some later point (late 10s) but I guess due to incompatibilities on newer system, it was weirdly broken. It felt off and I guess it really should have been played between 2 and Vice City, as it's a transitional entry.

As a note, I didn't and don't know any of the source material, nor would I recognize any voices. So that didn't influence my enjoyment in any way and the same can be said about my friends.

Ah, I also just remembered that I played San Andreas in two-person-mode on the PS2 at a friend's house. It was basically pointless, as we just ran around and shot people. I much preferred playing WWE SmackDown! Here Comes the Pain together (or even Def Jam: Fight for NY) or alternating between us playing Drakengard to level up stuff.

 

[Häyhä]

ALSO RIP, Gary Busey

Busey ain't dead, which is actually kinda surprising considering he's 79 now and has a history of substance a-BUSEY (eh eh I'll get my coat).

Anyway, I was a HUGE GTA fanboy in my youth, my first contact was with the original GTA which we played for many hours at my friends house, I probably played it way more than him. GTA 2 kinda passed me by since I didn't have either a decent PC or a Playstation. GTA 3 was also great and an amazing experience, again played for many, many hours at another friend's place and later I bought it for myself.

I first saw Vice City when it was released on the PS2 and my (third) friend showed it to me, I was sold instantly and bought a PS2 just to experience it myself, I adored the game and it made me a life-time lover of 80's music. Played through all the games released after VC, San Andreas, Liberty City Stories & Vice City Stories (even though they were kinda mediocre at best being PSP games originally), hell I really liked GTA Chinatown Wars on the Nintendo DS back in the day and finished it a couple of times too.

GTA 4 I couldn't wait for, my Rockstar/GTA fanboyism was probably at it's peak back then and I played the hell out of it too finishing it multiple times, even though it's obviously not as fun as the PS2-era titles and it was the point where it took the series to "too serious" direction. I think the added single-player expansions are actually better than the main game, I really liked being a biker in Lost & Damned and Gay Tony was also an improvement and felt more like return to "GTA" than the main game.

By GTA 5 my fanboyism had lessened already a bit, I still was excited to wait for it to release, but to me the magic was kinda lost there even though it was technically spectacular back then. I didn't like the story or the characters as much as in the past and it felt kinda bloated. I don't know maybe I grew up there at some point. I'm not particularly optimistic about the upcoming GTA 6 in the current year political climate, I have no great expectations of it. I'll probably play it at some point if I hear good things about it but I'm not in any rush anymore, my GTA ship sailed over 10 years ago and I'm a different person now than I was in my 20s.

 

[oldbonebrown]

San Andreas is likely the game I have played the most of in my life after Tetris. GTA was the only thing I was ever a real fanboy of.
Just about everything is a ramp in SA with the right vehicle and angle, especially around Los Santos which is clearly the area in the game with the most care put into it. For several years I found it almost infinitely entertaining to ride around Los Santos on an NRG-500 doing tricks and jumps and exploring all the little details of the game.

GTA IV (followed by Dead Rising 2) was the biggest disappointment I ever had with video games. The physics drained the gameplay of fun and the drab modern world was not inviting. I remember taking a cab to just about every mission, good of them to include a level skip because I did not enjoy the game, but what a difference from SA where I so gladly explored every nook of the map.

 

[NecroLord]

ALSO RIP, Gary Busey

Busey ain't dead, which is actually kinda surprising considering he's 79 now and has a history of substance a-BUSEY (eh eh I'll get my coat).

Anyway, I was a HUGE GTA fanboy in my youth, my first contact was with the original GTA which we played for many hours at my friends house, I probably played it way more than him. GTA 2 kinda passed me by since I didn't have either a decent PC or a Playstation. GTA 3 was also great and an amazing experience, again played for many, many hours at another friend's place.

I first saw Vice City when it was released on the PS2 and my (third) friend showed it to me, I was sold instantly and bought a PS2 just to experience it myself, I adored the game and it made me a life-time lover of 80's music. Played through all the games released after VC, San Andreas, Liberty City Stories & Vice City Stories (even though they were kinda mediocre at best being PSP games originally), hell I really liked GTA Chinatown Wars on the Nintendo DS back in the day and finished it a couple of times too.

GTA 4 I couldn't wait for, my Rockstar/GTA fanboyism was probably at it's peak back then and I played the hell out of it too finishing it multiple times, even though it's obviously not as fun as the PS2-era titles and it was the point where it took the series to "too serious" direction. I think the added DLCs are actually better than the main game, I really liked being a biker in Lost & Damned and Gay Tony was also an improvement and felt more like return to "GTA" than the main game.

By GTA 5 my fanboyism had lessened already a bit, I still was excited to wait for it to release, but to me the magic was kinda lost there even though it was technically spectacular back then. I didn't like the story or the characters as much as in the past and it felt kinda bloated. I don't know maybe I grew up at there some point. I'm not particularly optimistic about the upcoming GTA 6 in the current year political climate, I have no great expectations of it. I'll probably play it at some point if I hear good things about it but I'm not in any rush anymore, my GTA ship sailed over 10 years ago.

I was referring to Ray Liotta (RIP), not Busey, who is still among the living.
Busey voiced Phil Cassidy in VC.

 

[Häyhä]

I was referring to Ray Liotta (RIP), not Busey, who is still among the living.
Busey voiced Phil Cassidy in VC.

My bad. I'm still keeping my dad joke there though.

 

[Dr1f7]

 

[Ol' Willy]

My favorite is GTA 2, used to play it a lot

Never properly got into GTA 1/London

Played San Andreas a lot, but nigger theme is extremely annoying

Played GTA 4, not really bad in my opinion. Shooting was significantly improved, and lack of niggers is a massive plus

Haven't played any other entries in the series

 

[Vic]

Ray Liotta - ALSO RIP

damn what a way to find out.

wikipedia said he died in his sleep, I'm just gonna leave this unrelated picture here

 

[ind33d]

San Andreas is likely the game I have played the most of in my life after Tetris. GTA was the only thing I was ever a real fanboy of.
Just about everything is a ramp in SA with the right vehicle and angle, especially around Los Santos which is clearly the area in the game with the most care put into it. For several years I found it almost infinitely entertaining to ride around Los Santos on an NRG-500 doing tricks and jumps and exploring all the little details of the game.

GTA IV (followed by Dead Rising 2) was the biggest disappointment I ever had with video games. The physics drained the gameplay of fun and the drab modern world was not inviting. I remember taking a cab to just about every mission, good of them to include a level skip because I did not enjoy the game, but what a difference from SA where I so gladly explored every nook of the map.

GTA IV is incredible but it doesn't make sense as a sequel to San Andreas. They're literally not even the same genre. Like other sane people, I have always considered SA an RPG

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

GTA was an immediate hit for the very same reason that people still play these games for, the celebration of violence (and also being able to run over hare krishnas and elvis impersonators). San Andreas was the all time high when it came to the series' popularity, yes, but they've always wanted that shitty gangster movie feel and used it through all the games. It's corny, cheesy and over the top- The gameplay was fun too. I remember liking Vice City much more than 3, though. It made me learn that haitians and black americans don't get along.

 

[Falksi]

GTA 1 - Nice for it's day, definitely stood out and fun at the time

GTA 2 - Like GTA 1 but with the typical sequel syndrome, better in some ways worse in others to it's predecessor.

GTA 3 - Good attempt at transitioning the series into 3D, but also a somewhat awkward game. I had a ton of fun with it for a short period of time, but then dropped it like a stone and every attempt to play it again thereafter failed.

GTA Vice City - Boom! Now we're talking. Easily the peak of the series for me. Still awkward to play at times (that remote control helicopter mission....uggghhh), but more refined than 3 and still a ton of fun. But obviously what makes this the star of the show is the simply stunning soundtrack, aesthetics, atmosphere, acting and story. Even the awful acting worked because of the setting and vibe. This was a truly magical game which gave so many of us a chance to live out our childhood fantasies which were inspired by so many mint films and TV series of the 70's & 80's, such as Scarface and Miami Vice. Awesome radio scripts, piss funny writing in general, cool AF fashion and cars etc. A wonderful game which actually got what the series needed to be about.

GTA San Andreas - Shit. I don't care what anyone says, the additional life-sim elements and hood-gangster tones just did not fucking work at all. Not only had the gameplay become worse, but instead of living a high-roller, sweet coastline-sunset life you were now a street scumbag. I fucking hate rap & hip-hop too. Fucking shit game and the start of the decline.

GTA 4 - Awful. Boring AF. More pointless and tiresome life sim elements, everything else given the blandest tone and flavour of the series so far. Hated it with a passion. Cars controlled like ass.

GTA 5 - Return to form on the story front at least, but the game itself just played itself it was so easy. Even though earlier entries may have been shit, this one felt one of the most unengaging. A real 2010's game, where the moronic hand-holding was reaching new levels in all genres.


I gave up on the series after GTA 4 and only played GTA 5 on the skank out of interest. For me Saints Row took over where Vice City left off as it actually got what the franchise was about, namely doing outrageous shit and living out 80's movies in game form. So my own personal GTA story goes:

• GTA 1
• GTA 2
• GTA Vice City
• Saints Row 2
• Saints Row 4

 

[oldbonebrown]

Tsk, roleplayers who can't get out of their own head enough to enjoy playing a black criminal.

One of the few big problems with SA is that you're not allowed to be an even bigger nigger, not being a drug dealer leaves a big hole in how well the theme and story works.

 

[El Presidente]

SA is from a time where woke shit still didn't have its talons in full display, especially not in video games. In fact it'd still take 10 years for that to happen in the industry. Characters were also mostly fun and not portrayed in the retarded, annoying, smug, nigger fatigue inducing ways of the current industry, such as this:

It's a fun game but I'd rather play Vice City and 5.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

The best GTA clone was Sleeping Dogs, not Saints Row.

 

[Hellraiser]

I remember fondly the first two games, although the first one was a bit crude as far as content and gameplay went (just 4 weapons?). The second one had fun multiplayer and the reputation system/competing gangs was a great idea. I remember GTA2 unfairly got blasted by journos at the time for being top-down because 'muh 3D and proper 3D Driver already existed IIRC.

GTA 3 has some clunky things in it (still it was ambitious as fuck, so jank was expected), but the mission design was great, the story was very competent justifying the criminal shenenigans, the dark humor and satire were great and the city was great and nicely designed apart from the last island of Shoreside Vale which seemed phoned-in and rushed. Also I love the ambience of Liberty City, it does feel like a real city with a dirty underside, while Vice City and SA both feel stylized and overdrawn (for Vice City this was deliberate, not sure about SA).

Now as for Vice City and San Andreas, especially ever since I replayed them and GTA 3 sometime in the past 2 or 3 years, I have to disagree with the general consensus that Vice City is clearly the best game.

I believe that VC is overrated because the 80s homage theme (and soundtrack), as well as the much needed improvements over GTA3 being introduced, left people with a better impression despite weaknesses over both GTA3 and San Andreas. Vice City's area design is the worst of the three, the city lacks the detail level of GTA3's Liberty City and the variety of San Andreas. GTA3's city felt like every area was made with a specific purpose (mission) in mind, while Vice City's neighborhoods, especially on the second island, feel like they just had to fill the area with something before a deadline. The other bigger problem is that the game's single player "campaign" seems to fall apart once you have to buy businesses. Only the club and porn studio have mission chains of proper length, the rest seems rushed.

Now I'm not saying San Andreas is clear cut better as far as the campaign goes even after you don't need to suffer the nignog gangsta shit (which is what, almost a third of the story missions? I mean the missions themselves aren't bad, but enduring the homie banter, usually shitting on CJ because he's not nig enough, is an exercise in masochism at times). The game at times does force you to endure crappy "features"* like the dating minigame (I think the mission chain with it was optional, but I'm not sure plus besides it it was good) and it might go too much into parody/disbelief when Toreno gets involved having you do super spy shit (FFS CJ is a petty criminal, even if smarter than his "homies"). Still in general the map and missions for me provided better entertainment than vice city's did.

As for IV and V...

IV is dragged down by it's story that tried to be too serious (and fell flat on its face with the "choice" in the ending), toned down the humor to the point it is almost invisible and made the city too bleak, de-saturated and visually depressing (probably due to the trends at the time). I can't judge the DLC as I never played it, although the base game and DLC are on my near-future backlog as I want to both experience the expansions and give a more fair evaluation on the non-story sandbox content of IV (I ignored it the only time I played it, unlike the other games).

V I found better as far as the campaign and overall tone went, and the city plus surroundings were fun for the driving/mission parts, although it is shame there were barely any heists and Rockstar decided to ditch further singleplayer content like IV had for online money. My gripe with this one is also that Trevor is too lol-random-crazy while Franklin is forgetable as hell (why was he even part of the story again?) and the sandbox/open world side activities pretty much don't exist, making it feel like decline versus the PS2 era trilogy.

*I know people loathe NOE, the mandatory flying school and flying missions in general in GTA VC and SA, and probably would put those here but I simply disagree, those are just cases of git gud with the exception of the original PS2 version of that Zero mission with the RC plane in SA that had too little time. Yes a keyboard is not ideal for these due to precision issues, but the default scheme is good enough and the margin for error in them is big enough that it wasn't a huge deal IMO as this is just arcade flying.

 

[Hobknobling]

Now as for Vice City and San Andreas, especially ever since I replayed them and GTA 3 sometime in the past 2 or 3 years, I have to disagree with the general consensus that Vice City is clearly the best game.

I believe that VC is overrated because the 80s homage theme (and soundtrack), as well as the much needed improvements over GTA3 being introduced, left people with a better impression despite weaknesses over both GTA3 and San Andreas. Vice City's area design is the worst of the three, the city lacks the detail level of GTA3's Liberty City and the variety of San Andreas. GTA3's city felt like every area was made with a specific purpose (mission) in mind, while Vice City's neighborhoods, especially on the second island, feel like they just had to fill the area with something before a deadline. The other bigger problem is that the game's single player "campaign" seems to fall apart once you have to buy businesses. Only the club and porn studio have mission chains of proper length, the rest seems rushed.

I agree with you. I also like the map in GTA 3 much better than anything in VC. Shame that the third island was never finished properly.

I also dislike GTA IV because of this: cool that you got Manhattan there, but Manhattan was never designed to be a video game map. It is such a boring and annoying environment to traverse in a GTA game.

 

[Zlaja]

toned down the humor to the point it is almost invisible

This is such an exaggeration. While GTA4 is not as over-the-top goofy as the previous games, there's still a far of bit of humor in the game. Roman's spineless antics, frequent culture clash for Nico, and side characters like Brucie with his bull shark testosteron roid energy, that Jamaican guy who you could barely understand a single word he says, and that fake gangsta dude who was showing people "the real deal" he was filming from the hood.

And that's just of the top of my head (Iast time I played the game was like a dozen or so years ago).

 

[Hellraiser]

And that's just of the top of my head (Iast time I played the game was like a dozen or so years ago).

Well you have better memory than me, I only remember the bull shark testosterone and Roman's antics.

 

[Ash]

GTA 1/London/2: mildly entertaining and novel, but ultimately not that good compared to the many greats of the 90s. 7/10. The best thing about them was the music, which interestingly was original, not licensed.
GTA3: Overrated, but still an improvement. They really hadn't figured out how to quite make for a great game still but steady incline. 7.5/10
GTA: Vice City: now we're talking. More features, more details, more content, and oozing style and personality. Still far from true greatness, but definitely among peak GTA. 8/10

Now, we have the clear winner:

GTA: San Andreas: they took the formula to the next level yet again. Style and personality well, there's still plenty, and people complaining about only being a street rat obviously didn't play the game past those initial missions. You move to the upper rungs of society eventually, and thematically the game changes a lot. The first 1/3 of the game is all black and latino, and interstingly enough the latter two thirds of the game is majority white characters. The personality, feel and atmosphere of the game is dynamic: in Los Santos, you feel the hood life captured quite well. Out in the countryside, it feels like a hillbilly simulator. Then you move to San Fierro and start to move up, ending in a taste of the upper class high roller life when you move out to Las Venturas, then you get fucked up and end up naked in the desert and free bird plays on the radio when you hi-jack the nearest pickup truck. The radio defaulting to a certain station based on the location was genius, and really set the tone.
Anyways, there was tons new gameplay, details, game length, content, by far most of it was incline, this is the clear pinnacle of the series. 8.25/10. After THAT it was all decline. GTA5 it's hard to even classify as a game.

 

[Modron]

The true decline of Rockstar was when they decided to kill Bully 2 because they needed more manpower to get RDR 1 to a playable state as it was cobbled together quite poorly (and to help with Max Payne 3 to a lesser extent).

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I've played them all, but Vice city is the only one I've ever finished, although I liked the vibe of San Andreas a lot (and got pretty far in it). That early 90s bad gangsta rap video vibe hits my nostalgia sweet spot for some reason, as I spent much of my jr high years watching The Box video channel, and that's all they played.

I typically can't get into Rockstar games, though. I've always bounced off their "a bunch of unconnected mini-game type missions" style of gameplay. And everything post-San Andreas takes its plot way too seriously, so you end up having to sit through hours of shitty cut scenes just to get to the fun stuff.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I've played all of them until 4, which is the least interesting, even if it's not a bad game. It actually improved upon the predecessors in some ways (driving mechanics, police detection, physics, urban detail), yet was quite boring when it came to missions. Without fun missions and having scaled down the sandbox elements from San Andreas, all the realism and complexity just make the game feel more empty. I found the expansion I've played (TLAD) better than the original in this regard.

GTA 1 has a very arcade feel. It's about scoring points, getting multipliers, hoarding lives, etc. It assumes you're going to repeat most missions several times until you get it right. The purpose of exploration is to memorize where the goodies are and find the right sequence of doing stuff to get the best score so you can progress to the next map. You can also explore at your leisure, which still feels great. I was astonished by the freedom of game offered when I played it first in 97/98, but I wasn't very good at it, because I preferred to fuck around instead of playing to progress. I ended up using cheats to see all the maps. I guess the series evolved towards accommodating players like me, which were probably the majority.

2 I don't remember very well (it's the only one I haven't replayed in the last decade). The gang loyalty system probably influenced other games like Mercenaries, but I don't think it was used again in the series. From now on everything would be narrative driven, without he player's agency(e.g. play the mission to kill the mafia boss, the mafia will hate you forever.).

3, Vice City and San Andreas are almost the same game, with the series evolving towards sandboxy "fun stuff" and becoming less focused on the core drive fast and shoot people gameplay. Because that's exactly what I like to do in GTA, the third is still my favorite. Until recently I thought nostalgia was coloring my judgement, but my last playthrough of 3 confirmed it had the most fun missions. More open, less heavily scripted, always making use of the core skills you've honed throughout your playthrough. In this regard, it's much closer to the old top-down games. For the new stuff that it's lacking(I must point out you can ride bikes in Liberty City Stories), it makes up for it by having the Dodo, which is more fun than any of the aircraft in the other games.

I also prefer having a nameless psycho protagonist who's not personally involved in any drama. Tony Vercetti gets a pass, but the following games quickly degenerate in this regard.

That said, Vice City is a classic that needs to be played. Just a 10/10 in style and still fun as hell. San Andreas is also fantastic, although not as glamorous and with a shitty story. If you enjoy these games, you owe it to yourself to play LCS and VCS, which are just as good as the main entries.