Gothic II: NotR - requesting build advice

[Tigranes]

cvv I always play a hybrid in PB games but with a healthy dose of melee, because I feel like that's closest to the unique charm of PB combat. But yeah, it can sometimes be a bit nuts. At low levels, animals and the like are fine once you learn the timing, and I could, say, beat that snarky dude outside the Landowner's Farm at level 4 quite easily. But I find that the targeting lock-on system in most PB games is too poor to really make melee against multiple enemies viable - killing a group of goblins, black goblins and one armoured warrior goblin in a NOTR cave with a sword was nuts, even if I did it ultimately. Perhaps because of this, Risen doesn't really ever throw many enemies at you.

My issue with going too far in the direction of ranged and magic is that given the peculiarity of PB games' AI, etc., it encourages cheesing a lot.

I do enjoy melee in G3 a lot, though, because even if it's a bit 'cheesy' in game logic I actually think the way you have to behave reflects how you'd behave if you really were one dude trying to intervene in a battle of many. E.g. in the opening orc battle in Ardea you really have to take advantage of the confusion and stab orcs in the back while they are fighting other people, running away if you draw too much attention to yourself.

 

[MasPingon]

I'm pretty confident I won't hate it but we'll see if I love it as much as NotR.

Dude, no. Don't think about this way, you'll be extremely disappointed. Gothic 3 can be enjoyable at times, but it plays and feels like a game made by another developer.

 

[cvv]

For a practical tip, consider this: don't invest into melee combat, as it's pretty broken. If it's your first playtime, invest into ancient knowledge so you can get mana regeneration as soon as possible, afterward the game will be a cakewalk for the most part. If you're more of a larper, invest into hunting skill instead of magic, but you will have to play your game action RPG-like. But basically Gothic 3 is the Ultima 10, just play it any way and observe the consequences and be happy for your character making the right decisions as you go.

I think I'm gonna go with mage in G3, mostly because what I read about the end-game areas ITT and elsewhere. I suppose AoE will be useful there. And I'm gonna go melee in Risen 2 after that.

One more question - what herbs, ingredients etc. should I collect? I'm asking beforehand because in NotR I wasted so much bloody time picking those fucking Blue Elders, Woodland Berries and Meadow Berries only to find out much later they're totally, utterly useless.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

For a practical tip, consider this: don't invest into melee combat, as it's pretty broken. If it's your first playtime, invest into ancient knowledge so you can get mana regeneration as soon as possible, afterward the game will be a cakewalk for the most part. If you're more of a larper, invest into hunting skill instead of magic, but you will have to play your game action RPG-like. But basically Gothic 3 is the Ultima 10, just play it any way and observe the consequences and be happy for your character making the right decisions as you go.

I think I'm gonna go with mage in G3, mostly because what I read about the end-game areas ITT and elsewhere. I suppose AoE will be useful there. And I'm gonna go melee in Risen 2 after that.

One more question - what herbs, ingredients etc. should I collect? I'm asking beforehand because in NotR I wasted so much bloody time picking those fucking Blue Elders, Woodland Berries and Meadow Berries only to find out much later they're totally, utterly useless.

Can make health potions out of plenty herbs, bear that in mind. You'd have to get the recipe first though, and the more common the plant, the more expensive the recipe etc.

 

[uaciaut]

You could have used the fan patch.

Does the gog version come with the community patch pre-installed or do you have to dl it yourself?

edit: that's the g3 community patch, looking over the gog forums most people say G2 is pretty bug-free and some of the bug-fixing patches may add bugs of their own. Is there really a solid fan patch/mod out there for G2?

 

[subotaiy]

GOG is fine, 2.7 version I think.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You could have used the fan patch.

Does the gog version come with the community patch pre-installed or do you have to dl it yourself?

edit: that's the g3 community patch, looking over the gog forums most people say G2 is pretty bug-free and some of the bug-fixing patches may add bugs of their own. Is there really a solid fan patch/mod out there for G2?

I really don't think you'd need a fan patch or anything for G2.
As for mods, I only use one for a different Nameless Hero model just so I don't need to see that goddamn ponytail.

 

[cvv]

Is there really a solid fan patch/mod out there for G2?

I tried the advanced textures one but it looked a bit weird tbh, herbs and things were harder to see and after a while it crashed the game, requiring a hard reset. So no, I don't think you need anything extra.

 

[Kraszu]

G3 Meele combat got fixed in community patches. Battle mage is most powerful, and most interesting to play in G3, blood lust allows you to manipulate NPC, summoning spells, and tame animal are great. You don't need to spend all points on mage skills, all you need is best summoning spells, and enough mana to cast them, the best dmg spell is great too but you will get it so late that it will not even matter that you can cast it once before drinking a mana potion as you should have plenty of those left later on. Ignore direct dmg spells other then the last one.

G3 is a great game, there are some tedious quests but the game has so much content that you can just ignore those. You also need different approach to the exploration game there is little point in exploring random area, first gather information on what places should be explored. It is more interesting then going anywhere, and expecting epic things to happen. If there is interesting area to explore you will find about it by talking with NPC, and doing quests. G3 is very fun game when you focus on doing MQ, and more interesting quests (+few to get rep).

 

[cvv]

Ignore direct dmg spells other then the last one.

Why's that?

You also need different approach to the exploration game there is little point in exploring random area, first gather information on what places should be explored. It is more interesting then going anywhere, and expecting epic things to happen. If there is interesting area to explore you will find about it by talking with NPC, and doing quests.

Good to know.

 

[Metro]

No need to use any patches on G1 or G2 NOTR except maybe the FPS uncapper for G1. Also don't believe Kraszu's lies about G3. The patch fixed the stun lock but the combat itself is still shit.

 

[Nim]

I'm arena master in Kap Dun, Montera and Geldern, killed a ton of sand crawlers near Ben Erai, but if you put a simple wolf/jackal in my way I'm struggling. Melee combat is still not really good but at least the atmosphere is there in parts
Lago

NOTR has great german fanpatches alas I doubt they work on the english version.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'm arena master in Kap Dun, Montera and Geldern, killed a ton of sand crawlers near Ben Erai, but if you put a simple wolf/jackal in my way I'm struggling. Melee combat is still not really good but at least the atmosphere is there in parts
Lago

NOTR has great german fanpatches alas I doubt they work on the english version.

Spears are your best friends against wolves.

 

[Nim]

I'm arena master in Kap Dun, Montera and Geldern, killed a ton of sand crawlers near Ben Erai, but if you put a simple wolf/jackal in my way I'm struggling. Melee combat is still not really good but at least the atmosphere is there in parts
Lago

NOTR has great german fanpatches alas I doubt they work on the english version.

Spears are your best friends against wolves.

True, halberd has even more range but I don't like big weapons. Not complaining too much anyway, noone forces me to play on hard with AAI/AB and sword and shield.

 

[uaciaut]

Heh, this thread got me to re-install the game. Trying that Nature's Fury mod to add something new -- supposed to have some new areas/quests and item variation. Might try a mage again.

How good is that mod?

Also do you have to power-game hard to get enough str for the best 2h Axe or can you get away with putting some points into dex and lockpick etc while still focusing Str?

 

[Tigranes]

cvv

1) Magic lets you do some interesting things - e.g. Summon Animals (which is actually Lure Animals to Attack Target) can be cool in areas where, say, bandits and animals are close together (e.g. there's one near Montera involving a quest); you can put NPCs to sleep and then rob them (e.g. a particular place in Geldern); and I actually find having one direct damage spell in early game helpful because, for instance, lightning bolts fire faster than bows and can be a good way to knock one or two enemies down if there are several coming at you.

2) G3 melee isn't broken naymore and it is fun. You work out the timing, you can kill shit. I can never get staff combat though, and usually go with one handed. G3 has a lot more sheer content, meaning lot more XP to be gained, so you don't have to worry too much about spreading too thin.

3) The structure in G3 is indeed 'go to city x, get quests, use quests to explore surrounding area', because there's over a dozen cities. So there's not quite as much absolute free roaming, since you'll trip over a city sooner or later. There's also a pretty obvious set of geographical limitations that funnel you into a specific order. But it can be interesting not to follow that order. Teleport stones for each city are pretty easy to find in G3, so you can just run around as you like, if you find a city pick up a teleport stone, keep going.

By the way, I don't know if it's me playing too many PB games or something with G3 CP's alternative AI/balancing, but the timing for melee combat against animals has become pretty clear. With a standard one-handed sword weapon:

Spoiler

Flurry of right click jabs against minecrawlers exploits their slow attack animation
For wild boars, swing once then retreat two steps basically to allow them to lunge and leave themselves open
Similar for snappers, who will unerringly snap at you in large jumps

The only real danger is shadowbeasts/etc from whom you must be prepared to turn and run like hell for a couple seconds to give yourself some space.

 

[Kraszu]

Why's that?

I mean for battle mage, you will use melee + support from summons, tamed animals and blood lust. That way you will not need to use allot of mana saving you potions for later on, and LP as you don't need to increase mana pool. You also have a bow for range, they are useful even if you invest no points in bows, and I get few dex points to unlock chest, you need the second level I think to unlock weapon chests, the hardest chest aren't that important, definitly not worth the cost of upgrade, and you get few spells to unlock them.

As for the combat against animals circle back and left or right, this will dodge they attack, after dodge attack. I don't see what is so bad about combat it is timed based combat similar in gameplay to other Gothic games, the animations are lackluster, and you must avoid some weapons due to they ridiculously slow speed, but the mechanics aren't bad. Circle around enemies until you have an attack window parry but only when necessary ( reduces your stamina, and stops your movement that can be deadly when you fight multiple enemies) , attack few times, step back, repeat.

I also don't recommend using spear because there is something off with its animation, and it is slow, fast sword is adequate against animals. Halberd is the best.

Minecrawlers are easiest enemies in the game, block they slow attack, and attack.

btw the first village fight on hard with AAI on is pretty ridiculous. For the first time play it on normal, and then switch to hard.

 

[Murk]

How good is that mod?

Couldn't tell ya, would crash for me. Since G2 requires that initial 'check everything' loading screen after a crash, I ended up dropping the play through.

Also do you have to power-game hard to get enough str for the best 2h Axe or can you get away with putting some points into dex and lockpick etc while still focusing Str?

For the mod or just NotR? Can't comment for the former, but for the latter you will need to powergame a bit but you can still learn lockpicking and maybe put some points in dex. You'll have to save all STR potions, tablets, and apples for when you hit the end cap of the LP:STR ratio tho.

IMO it's not really worth it, the berserker axe's lower range is kind of butts.

 

[Tigranes]

btw the first village fight on hard with AAI on is pretty ridiculous. For the first time play it on normal, and then switch to hard.

Never tried on hard, on Normal it's easy enough to go after orcs already occupied with someone else and stab them in the back, it's a fun frenetic fight to try and get the last hit (and XP) on as mnay as possible.

Does anyone seriously make use of poisons in G3?

 

[Nim]

btw the first village fight on hard with AAI on is pretty ridiculous. For the first time play it on normal, and then switch to hard.

Never tried on hard, on Normal it's easy enough to go after orcs already occupied with someone else and stab them in the back, it's a fun frenetic fight to try and get the last hit (and XP) on as mnay as possible.

Does anyone seriously make use of poisons in G3?

Bloodfly poison seems to be 5 damage per second for 32 seconds. If poison on a weapon is the same then it doesn't seem that good considering you have to use the stab attack to apply it.

 

[uaciaut]

How good is that mod?

Couldn't tell ya, would crash for me. Since G2 requires that initial 'check everything' loading screen after a crash, I ended up dropping the play through.

Also do you have to power-game hard to get enough str for the best 2h Axe or can you get away with putting some points into dex and lockpick etc while still focusing Str?

For the mod or just NotR? Can't comment for the former, but for the latter you will need to powergame a bit but you can still learn lockpicking and maybe put some points in dex. You'll have to save all STR potions, tablets, and apples for when you hit the end cap of the LP:STR ratio tho.

IMO it's not really worth it, the berserker axe's lower range is kind of butts.

I'm planning to invest LP into Str till i hit 94 then go full consumables, etc, i should still hit 170 just barely, this before equipment.

How much LP would i be left over to invest into tablet reading, lockpick and more importantly Dex? Can i afford to try and get 60 dex fast (with consumables) in chapter 1 to use the masters sword or would i be over-extending?

What's a good estimate of how much LP a full run with G2 + Notr will net me, if i kill everything (not sure if shit respawns but if it does ignore any grinding).

Also should i waste LP's on learning to craft the dragon-hunter specific weapons? They seem out-classed by the top 2 weapons but on the other hand i'm a hoarder/completionist. Not sure if i will be able to afford the LP cost tho'

 

[Murk]

You can invest in full tablet reading and also potion-creation (at least one permanent stat potion since NOTR does not quire you to learn previous potions -- you can just jump to pot of str or dex) and still hit 170 str; as well as maxing your weapon skills. At least, I did (hit max weapon skill with tablets). I also had lockpicking, skinning, and sneaking.

Not sure if consumables dex alone can do 60; never tried that. I usually go either all in on dex or not at all tho. You can get level 50 for sure, so 500LP if you grind some things out (orcs outside of the castle, etc.) so you'll have at least that to work with. Also if you hunt for shadowbeast horns for Buster. You can also scam that a bit; beat him up and steal the horns back then resell them for XP and Gold. The paladin version of this is the orc warlord rings which is harder to scam back.

I am not certain of the "level cap" officially, but I'm guessing around there maybe +/1 a few if you run around pickpocketing and beating up NPCs.

I'd avoid weapon crafting; I do not think it is worth it at all.

EDIT: oh right, the shrines of Innos also can give you stat upgrades if you pray to them. They work differently based on your class so you may want to check a guide for what works there.

 

[Sranchammer]

I think I just don't like RPGs anymore.

 

[Boomhauer]

Hi guys ! I have a really nasty problem with G2 GOG : When I enter the portal to the New World, the map loads, but on the other side I arrive dead. Anyone know what can I do to solve this ?

Anyway, I will also leave a suggestion regarding builds !
Easiest builds :

1. Pure archer - Archer is so OP early game it's not even funny. Strong bows, and really tough 1h swords for back-up or stronger mobs. 1h Sword 40 dmg/20 dex 5% 1h bonus, then Rapier 100 dmg/50 dex 8% 1h bonus, then Master Sword 120 dmg/60 dex 10% 1h bonus. If you want you can go for the 130 dmg/110 dex Betty, but I prefer the 10% 1h bonus over the 10 dmg. The downside is that in late game you can't really take on medium sized brigades ( 6+ orcs/lizardmen ) as easy as the 2h meleer. Also the 1h sword, as strong as it is, shows it's limitations against 2h opponents. Also, for chapter 1, I recommend a defensive archer build. My build is : Militia Belt, Light Militia Armor, Harness Amulet, Ring of invincibility, Ring of Dexterity, Master Sword, Composite Bow ( 65 dmg/60 dex ). 30% bow and 30% ( + 10% 1h sword ).

2. 2h Melee fighter - The start is tedious, but when you get your hands on the Claw of Beliar, in Chapter 2, you can go straight to Irdorath. That's how OP that sword is. You can take down everything and everyone, in medium nunmbers at once. The begging is very challenging tho. I personally go for Militia Belt ( which I'll change once I switch to knight armor, for a belt of STR ), Amulet of Strength, Ring of STR, and ring of invincibility/ring of str. Early in the game you need all the str you can get from accesories, as the weapons have high requirments. My personal choice of weapons track is : Judge's Staff 50 dmg/35 str 5% 2h bonus ( Buy from Canthar ), then Ring of Water Quarterstaff 60 dmg/30 str ( Get for free when you sign up with the Ring of Water ), then Typhoon 75 dmg 45 str 5% 2h bonus ( Buy from Cronos once you get to the New World ), then the Claw of Beliar which I use till I get my hands on enough str to wield the Dragon Slicer.
It's critical to rush the 2h skill !

Difficult builds :

1. 1h Melee fighter - 1h swords have limitations when it comes to fighting large crowds, and 2h users.

2. Crossbow - The requirments are just way too high compared to the bow. You need to invest heavily in LP.

3. Mage - Mage it's pretty much cookie-cutter. The problem is that you should wipe out the orcs in Chapter 2, all of them. As a warrior or archer, that's easy/doable, but as a mage you require intense mana management, as potions are scarce. Most challenging build, but the most rewarding. The storyline for the mage is the most complete. Something tells me PB intended the Nameless Hero to be a mage in Gothic 2.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Incidentally, any of you guise experienced a slowdown and lag in the Mine Valley?
Having it all of a sudden, never had it before.