Good Doom/Heretic/Hexen WADs

[Sceptic]

There's actually a hard limit on the size of Doom maps too Coordinates of vertices and things are in 16-bit registers, so range of -32k-something to +32k-something. Though this is huge enough to not matter (and within vanilla limitations you were gonna hit pretty much all of the static limits before you got anywhere near this size) and it was also maybe increased in UDMF? not sure about that.
I'm curious actually, do you know if the Build size limit is the same? that would make sense, as I suspect they wouldn't store coordinates in anything larger than 16-bit as well (and 8-bit would be WAY too small), but they might have restricted it to something much smaller for whatever reason.

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

There's actually a hard limit on the size of Doom maps too Coordinates of vertices and things are in 16-bit registers, so range of -32k-something to +32k-something. Though this is huge enough to not matter (and within vanilla limitations you were gonna hit pretty much all of the static limits before you got anywhere near this size) and it was also maybe increased in UDMF? not sure about that.
I'm curious actually, do you know if the Build size limit is the same? that would make sense, as I suspect they wouldn't store coordinates in anything larger than 16-bit as well (and 8-bit would be WAY too small), but they might have restricted it to something much smaller for whatever reason.

I just checked, and Build has a limitation of about 262k wall length, so something like 131k each way. (this being much smaller than Doom's range, Duke allows more fine-tuning that way) You can and could play something like that, but touching walls past a certain length does "interesting" things. Past a certain length, actually pretty small, and Duke goes really fast. Go along a length of wall too long and Duke can die. Sometimes this happens as soon as Duke touches the wall. But make that full length of wall and the game will crash. I can't be sure of Doom's hard limitations, because unlike Duke, I don't think any Doom editors stop you from reaching that limitation, at least SLADE doesn't. Which just breaks the map. Otherwise it doesn't seem to have any effect on anything, it can handle that just fine. Or at least it takes more than I gave it for something to break.

 

[Dayyālu]

Apparently, release SOON

It is weird than this is the only game I'm kind of excited for this entire year?

 

[gerey]

It is weird than this is the only game I'm kind of excited for this entire year?

Nope.

This and the remake mod of TIE Fighter were/are my most anticipated games of the year. Hell, the only mech sim I'm looking forward to is a Doom mod as well.

Oh, and I forgot Hedon's new episode, which was another thing I was looking forward to.

 

[Stone Dog]

Hell, the only mech sim I'm looking forward to is a Doom mod as well.

You've got a name for that?

 

[The Dutch Ghost]

You've got a name for that?

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=68096

 

[Stone Dog]

Thanks, looks sweet.

 

[madbringer]

Hey everyone, sorry for the slightly off-topic question, but there is something I've been wondering about for a while. Do any of you know why Doom (and other games in the same engine) mods, TCs and maps are so numerous while, say, build engine ones are not nearly as common? Does this have to do with how popular Doom is? Or maybe the open source engine implementations? Is Doom simply easier or better for modding? Or something else entirely?

I've talked with a few people about this actually. I think it's because Doom (and later on Quake) were made mod-friendly from the start. U had custom WADs for Doom weeks after release, while making stuff for Build was always a pain in the ass. See how much time it took for Blood to have proper source ports (IE none at all). I don't know if it was intentional or not for Doom, but Quake definitely was built around community customization while Build was kept locked up for a long time. Probably some legal shit? Perhaps dev oversight? Ego? Who knows.

 

[Sceptic]

It was definitely intentional for Doom. id had seen there was interest in community modding with Wolfenstein 3D, even though it was not built for it. The 2 Johns have both said they wanted to build Doom with this moddability in mind from the start (I don't think Tom Hall has said it outright but considering his design sensibilities I'd say he wanted this too), while Jay Wilbur (and I think Kevin Cloud) was against it, but ultimately the "make it moddable" party won. id released the source code for DoomBSP (their in-house node builder) a couple of month after Doom registered was out, and I have a feeling the only reason they didn't release the DoomEd source code for so long was that it was so heavily optimized for NeXTSTEP (and besides DEU came out so quickly after Doom, so there was already an editor there). And then of course id released the engine source code in 1997, followed a couple of years later by Raven releasing theirs (important for Hexen, because that allowed a look at how ACS scripting worked, which was essential in developing advanced engine features).

Now compare to Build: Ken Silverman didn't release the source until several years later, and then only under a proprietary license, and the Duke3D source wasn't licensed under GPL until the mid-2000s. By then the Doom community had been active and thriving for an entire decade, and source ports could already do more than native Build does. And to add to this, the source for most of the other Build games never got released and was lost (Blood being the most painful).

Like you said we can't be sure why, but I have a feeling they sat on the Build code for as long because they were still actively licensing it years later. id were done with Doom engine as soon as Quake came out and Carmack was immediately ready to throw the source code out there for everyone, but Build kept being licensed long after that, though predictably all of the later releases were disastrous flops (specifically WWII GI and NAM - seriously, don't play them. I did so you don't have to). I guess they just got greedy, but then they also didn't have Carmack and a new engine ready to take the old one's place.

I think there were also some excuse shenanigans thrown around at the time - I vaguely remember someone at 3D Realms (maybe Broussard?) arguing that it was impossible to port Duke3D and therefore there was no point in releasing the source code. Don't quote me on this though because I don't remember details.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

It is weird than this is the only game I'm kind of excited for this entire year?

And yeah it's a little weird. Cool to see that's apparently going to coincide with a remastered first episode, too. Probably won't get to it until I finish Hedon's second episode but once I knock Hedon on the head I'm happy I'll have a pile of new Ashes to play.

 

[Curratum]

I did spot bits of Ep1 in there. Vostyok first said he wasn't going to remaster and merge Ep1 into Afterglow, but maybe Christmas comes early this year!

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I did spot bits of Ep1 in there. Vostyok first said he wasn't going to remaster and merge Ep1 into Afterglow, but maybe Christmas comes early this year!

He pinned this comment on that video:

"Remaster of first episode should occur just before or at the same time as ep2 goes lives. I might make a video just for that, so you lovely people get a notification that we hit H-hour. Many thanks and see you soon o7"

 

[Morpheus Kitami]

This whole topic inspired me to read what Silverman himself had written on the matter. It seems like Duke 3D and the original Build engine are two vastly different beasts in terms of licensing. Couldn't tell you why it took Ken so long to release his half of the source code, possibly legal issues, but reading between the lines on this makes it sound like 3D Realms licensed out the engine for Nam, WWII GI, and the ilk. This would make sense as to why it took so long, they were still trying to get money out of it, though else would come out except those weird War on Terror-related games. And having heard from a few people who would know, Duke 3D's engine code is very messy. Someone at 3D Realms at the time was modifying the code as much as Silverman, and as a result its not very pretty under the hood. Perhaps this also influenced thought by 3D Realms, that no one could deal with such messy code. Insaner things have been thought.

 

[Tacgnol]

Apparently, release SOON

It is weird than this is the only game I'm kind of excited for this entire year?

Magnifico!
I've heard of Ashes 2063 before, last year, through Mr. Icarus. Seemed good and worth checking out.
What's the KKK on the first episode?

Don't think I've ever seen a bad word about Ashes 2063 on the Codex. Pretty much unanimous praise.

 

[Sjukob]

Don't think I've ever seen a bad word about Ashes 2063 on the Codex. Pretty much unanimous praise.

It's way too easy and there's not enough focus on combat.

Well duh, it tries to imitate Build Engine games, so lackluster combat in exchange for better exploration, interactivity and visuals is expected.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Asking Connoseurs of Weapon Mods here:

So, I want to play E2 on Colorful Hell with a Weapon Mod - the vanilla weapons feel underpowered for Colorful Hell, and hell, I am using a friggin' Plasma Gun on Episode One because a Black Zombie dropped it.

Which of these mods, compatible with Colorful Hell, is a good weapon mod that ins't overpowered to high hell? Something balanced, so to say, which provides more interesting and non-cheesy tools.

Legendoom
Trailblazer
DRLA - Weapons only.
RussianOverkill
Psychic
Combined arms
High Noon Drifter
La Tailor Girl
Final Doomer

Guncaster - compat patch

LethalDoom
Project Brutality

From what I saw, Trailblazer, Russian Overkill and Guncaster are right out for obvious reasons.

 

[Sjukob]

The Brazilian Slaughter
Combined arms is probably the best choice.

Final Doomer is very close to vanilla in terms of balance.
Psychic feels like you have even less power than vanilla arsenal.
Certain things in High Noon Drifter are really op (berserk, basilissa mask) even for custom wads.
Never tried DoomRL weapons only version, but I've played the regular one. It's has some rng, but most of the stuff is crazy broken and easy to get.
Project Brutality should be alright, but it's a very bloated mod in general. Also, I imagine that you wouldn't be able to get certain weapons, since they only drop from mod's exclusive enemies.

You've already figured out PillowBlaster mods, although there's a fan made fork of Guncaster - Guncaster Vindicated, which aims to take the mod away from power fantasy trope and make it more balanced. It's well made and works great with custom monsters, so it should be a good choice too.

Never tried the rest of the mods, so can't say anything about them.

 

[Baron Dupek]

RussianOverkill, as name suggest, is choke full of room cleaning tools and guns loaded with nukes or something I dunno... never played with it because much like Brootal Doom it gets boring FAST.

 

[ferratilis]

Spoiler

 

[lightbane]

A sequel to Trump Doom I see.

 

[Luzur]

 

[Baron Dupek]

Ashes - Afterglow test will start soon, October release more realistic it seems...

Found out that there is expansion for Abysm 2 called Pharaoh's Judgement
https://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=72554
new land, weapons and dungeons

They also announced HellForged 2.0
Surprised they still want new one after long developement with first project.

 

[Echo Mirage]

 

[Baron Dupek]

I remember similar project, though it was abandoned but someone else did better job - with tarot cards and stake gun that send enemies far away with well placed shot



Includes optional PK movement style
Happy Bunny hopping!

 

[Denim Destroyer]

I have been playing this six level mapset released the other day named Arceon. It may be because I am a few months out of practice but this wad is really kicking my butt. This wad's gimmick is nonlinear levels with a huge emphasis on interconnected areas. Currently I am on level four but I would recommend it.
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/top...ible-mapset-rc2/?tab=comments#comment-2393747