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Good Doom/Heretic/Hexen WADs
- Thread starter AngryEddy
- Start date
Ol' Willy
Arcane
Hideous Destructor is old as shit, I'm sure it's original release is pre-2010 but still regularly updated
lightbane
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
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- 10,562
Perhaps, and it might be a good mod for those that like this stuff, but it's a silly idea IMO to make Doom into a realistic popamole shooter. Ideally I would prefer to rip off the stuff like turrets and special effects for power-ups to apply it in regular Doom, or other mods, but I have no idea if that's feasible.
Ol' Willy
Arcane
Icarus is greatly overselling HD in the terms of difficulty. It gives you a lot of various tools, weapons are more accurate and deadly, and some things are just goddamn OP. As long as you don't play slaughter maps it's more than fine. If you play episodes consequently you will amass an ungodly amount of ammo and supplies.
Fully invisible Specters are pain, though.
And he's right about inventory management, it asks for UI rework for a long time
Overall, it's a great mod
Fully invisible Specters are pain, though.
And he's right about inventory management, it asks for UI rework for a long time
Overall, it's a great mod
Ol' Willy
Arcane
It's far from realistic popamole, although dynamics and damage models are close to milsims; amount of really bonkers stuff is much bigger
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- Mar 2, 2010
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- 10,881
Heretic: Shadow of the Serpent Riders (heretic.wad 1996)
I posted overall impressions in that thread a few days ago but I thought people who check this one might be interested in a more detailed analysis of each episode.
As with Doom, I think the original shareware E1 is the best balanced and most memorable, despite being more limited in weapons and bestiary. Every level is unique and oozes personality, every encounter feels exquisitely balanced (though the episode is easy even on Smite-Meister), and every detail adds to overall atmosphere. I don't think Heretic's E1 is as good as Doom's E1 but it's still pretty great to play. Some secrets are well hidden but none feel unfair, and you never feel stuck when along the critical path even if the next step is not immediately obvious. The pace is really good and despite having played this one the most I enjoyed it just as much. The first level is such a good starter, and I think my favourite is E1M6 (The Cathedral). The final fight is also pretty cool, as defeating multiple Iron Liches when you don't have the Phoenix Rod actually takes some creativity (and judicious use of Tome of Power).
E2 introduces all the other weapons and all monsters except the Ophidian. This is where the monster count starts getting pretty high (Heretic is much more slaughtery than Doom IMO). The levels are still quite distinctive and I found a lot of them quite memorable, from running along the River of Fire (E2M3), to compensating for slipping on ice in Ice Grotto (E2M4), to climbing the titular Glacier in the secret level (E2M9). The boss level is also laid out pretty neatly. I don't think I ever realized this when playing under DOS, but the Firemace doesn't just appear like the other weapons; it only has a chance to spawn on a particular level, and its location is randomized when it does. The latter is fun, but the former I found annoying, as it's entirely possible to get unlucky and repeatedly have it not spawn, as happened to me this time, even while you have tons of ammo for it.
I think E3 is the weakest of the base episodes. The Ophidian is a fun monster (it fires a streak of fireballs, and one last one with a bit of a delay; you got to adjust your strafing pattern when fighting many at once) but the level design feels more forgettable. The final fight against D'Sparil was also a bit meh - it's not very hard, and his attacks are very easy to dodge, but he has a huge health pool and it just feels a bit boring and drawn out. There are small details where Heretic also feels a bit less lively than Doom - I kept wondering why the intermission maps felt so much more drab than Doom's until I realized they lack the small animations of Doom's - it's amazing how tiny details sometimes do make a difference. Overall though even E3 is quite consistent in quality even if isn't stellar.
The two episodes added by the Shadow of the Serpent Riders patch are much more uneven. I remember them being hard (much harder than Doom's E4 was compared to the base episodes) but I forgot how obnoxious they could be. E4M1 is an awful starter level, with extremely tight ammo and none of the more powerful weapons, and to top it off it throws hordes of Ophidians and Saberclaws at you in small spaces with nowhere to strafe behind. When I ran into the Maulotaur I thought fine, at least it's possible to run around him and avoid fighting him head on. Then when I got to the level exit and found five Iron Liches standing in the way I threw the towel. E4M2 is not much better, but things do improve afterwards, as you get the more powerful weapons and start building enough ammo reserves to deal with anything (though this is also where monster counts start getting to 200). E4M3 (Ambulatory) and E4M5 (Great Stair) both have fun gimmicks. E4M9 (the secret level) is awful though; instead of using keys, it's an extremely linear switch hunt, and every time you flip one it opens what used to look like a normal wall somewhere on the level, with no indication whatsoever where to look. So you spend most of your time running around and backtracking to find which wall is now a passage. People give Hexen shit for its switch-hunts but that game was quite clear about where to go back to. At least the boss level is pretty cool, as you reconstruct the Shattered Bridge.
E5 is better in some ways, worse in others. E5M1 is absolutely manic but much better balanced than E4M1 thanks to giving you actual ammo to deal with what it throws at you. I think it's the most no-bullshit challenging map and as a result also one of the most fun. Most levels do turn into slaughterfests (most exceed 200 monsters), and I'm generally not a fan of this in Doom, preferring the killing to be balanced with exploration. Unfortunately E5 sins both ways; it takes the switch-hunts from E4M9 and makes them even worse, including linedefs that when crossed silently open something somewhere on the level - every time you hit a dead end, you go back and look all over the level again. Alternating massive slaughters with 10-minute bouts of running around is not my idea of balanced. It's a shame too because some of the levels look really cool - the Rapids of E5M2, the Quay of E5M3, the Colonnades of E5M6 and the citadel of E5M7. E5M8 pits you against eight (!!) Maulotaurs and is the most fun boss level in the game.
There's a hidden mini-E6 of sorts, and two of the levels are quite good. E6M1 is actually patterned after Raven's offices but is quite fun. feels a bit like an easier E5M1 where you come face to face with tough opposition but can manage by judicious use of your weapons and powerups. E6M2 is quite fun. E6M3 is actually one of American McGee's Deathmatch maps for Doom converted to Heretic, and doesn't even have an exit switch, so the minisode kinda ends there.
Ultimately I have mixed feelings about the game. E1 is very good, E2-E3 are good. But E4 and E5 are harder to recommend. Although they have some of the best challenges in the game, they also have some real bullshit, whereas in terms of difficulty or of puzzle design. I think both Doom and Hexen are better games, but it's still one of the seminal games of the golden FPS era.
I posted overall impressions in that thread a few days ago but I thought people who check this one might be interested in a more detailed analysis of each episode.
As with Doom, I think the original shareware E1 is the best balanced and most memorable, despite being more limited in weapons and bestiary. Every level is unique and oozes personality, every encounter feels exquisitely balanced (though the episode is easy even on Smite-Meister), and every detail adds to overall atmosphere. I don't think Heretic's E1 is as good as Doom's E1 but it's still pretty great to play. Some secrets are well hidden but none feel unfair, and you never feel stuck when along the critical path even if the next step is not immediately obvious. The pace is really good and despite having played this one the most I enjoyed it just as much. The first level is such a good starter, and I think my favourite is E1M6 (The Cathedral). The final fight is also pretty cool, as defeating multiple Iron Liches when you don't have the Phoenix Rod actually takes some creativity (and judicious use of Tome of Power).
E2 introduces all the other weapons and all monsters except the Ophidian. This is where the monster count starts getting pretty high (Heretic is much more slaughtery than Doom IMO). The levels are still quite distinctive and I found a lot of them quite memorable, from running along the River of Fire (E2M3), to compensating for slipping on ice in Ice Grotto (E2M4), to climbing the titular Glacier in the secret level (E2M9). The boss level is also laid out pretty neatly. I don't think I ever realized this when playing under DOS, but the Firemace doesn't just appear like the other weapons; it only has a chance to spawn on a particular level, and its location is randomized when it does. The latter is fun, but the former I found annoying, as it's entirely possible to get unlucky and repeatedly have it not spawn, as happened to me this time, even while you have tons of ammo for it.
I think E3 is the weakest of the base episodes. The Ophidian is a fun monster (it fires a streak of fireballs, and one last one with a bit of a delay; you got to adjust your strafing pattern when fighting many at once) but the level design feels more forgettable. The final fight against D'Sparil was also a bit meh - it's not very hard, and his attacks are very easy to dodge, but he has a huge health pool and it just feels a bit boring and drawn out. There are small details where Heretic also feels a bit less lively than Doom - I kept wondering why the intermission maps felt so much more drab than Doom's until I realized they lack the small animations of Doom's - it's amazing how tiny details sometimes do make a difference. Overall though even E3 is quite consistent in quality even if isn't stellar.
The two episodes added by the Shadow of the Serpent Riders patch are much more uneven. I remember them being hard (much harder than Doom's E4 was compared to the base episodes) but I forgot how obnoxious they could be. E4M1 is an awful starter level, with extremely tight ammo and none of the more powerful weapons, and to top it off it throws hordes of Ophidians and Saberclaws at you in small spaces with nowhere to strafe behind. When I ran into the Maulotaur I thought fine, at least it's possible to run around him and avoid fighting him head on. Then when I got to the level exit and found five Iron Liches standing in the way I threw the towel. E4M2 is not much better, but things do improve afterwards, as you get the more powerful weapons and start building enough ammo reserves to deal with anything (though this is also where monster counts start getting to 200). E4M3 (Ambulatory) and E4M5 (Great Stair) both have fun gimmicks. E4M9 (the secret level) is awful though; instead of using keys, it's an extremely linear switch hunt, and every time you flip one it opens what used to look like a normal wall somewhere on the level, with no indication whatsoever where to look. So you spend most of your time running around and backtracking to find which wall is now a passage. People give Hexen shit for its switch-hunts but that game was quite clear about where to go back to. At least the boss level is pretty cool, as you reconstruct the Shattered Bridge.
E5 is better in some ways, worse in others. E5M1 is absolutely manic but much better balanced than E4M1 thanks to giving you actual ammo to deal with what it throws at you. I think it's the most no-bullshit challenging map and as a result also one of the most fun. Most levels do turn into slaughterfests (most exceed 200 monsters), and I'm generally not a fan of this in Doom, preferring the killing to be balanced with exploration. Unfortunately E5 sins both ways; it takes the switch-hunts from E4M9 and makes them even worse, including linedefs that when crossed silently open something somewhere on the level - every time you hit a dead end, you go back and look all over the level again. Alternating massive slaughters with 10-minute bouts of running around is not my idea of balanced. It's a shame too because some of the levels look really cool - the Rapids of E5M2, the Quay of E5M3, the Colonnades of E5M6 and the citadel of E5M7. E5M8 pits you against eight (!!) Maulotaurs and is the most fun boss level in the game.
There's a hidden mini-E6 of sorts, and two of the levels are quite good. E6M1 is actually patterned after Raven's offices but is quite fun. feels a bit like an easier E5M1 where you come face to face with tough opposition but can manage by judicious use of your weapons and powerups. E6M2 is quite fun. E6M3 is actually one of American McGee's Deathmatch maps for Doom converted to Heretic, and doesn't even have an exit switch, so the minisode kinda ends there.
Ultimately I have mixed feelings about the game. E1 is very good, E2-E3 are good. But E4 and E5 are harder to recommend. Although they have some of the best challenges in the game, they also have some real bullshit, whereas in terms of difficulty or of puzzle design. I think both Doom and Hexen are better games, but it's still one of the seminal games of the golden FPS era.
No.
Hexen first map is great, showing multiple of interesting things: opening gates, bells to ring, destructible environment, spinning walls, trees and other decorations.
Then second map/hub 7-portals with Guardian of steel is a definition of how to NOT make maps. A copy paste / mirror of exact same location - so the player have no clue if he was here already or not, multiple switches ("3 more to go").
both Hexen and Heretic monsters have too many HP. They are too spongy.
Hexen has very limited weapons, 4 per class.
1st weapon (fist, mace, wand) that is never to use again when you find something better, 2nd (axe, serpent staff, ice spell) when you low on green mana, 3rd (hammer, fire spell, lighting spell) default choice, 4th is your ultimate weapons that kills everything if you only have ammo.
Heretic with reskin of well design Doom weapons is better. At least with ammo distribution on map, you can force player to use different weapons. FireMace is too weak, i think even dragonclaw is a better weapon.
I enjoy 4th episode a lot. But 100% agree 1st episode is best (if not limited weaponry and monster types), in terms of map exploration and map ambient (docks, cathedral, guard tower, citadel).
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I don't remember having this much problem with Guardian levels but it's been a while, I'll have to replay to confirm. I do agree about spongy enemies in both games, I really felt it in Heretic, and I think the limited weaponry makes it obvious in Hexen too.
I agree bout Heretic weapons but I think the game drops the ball a bit with ammo distribution on some maps. E4M1 is a bad offender, but trying topistol wand-start every level would expose others as too stingy too I think. I personally don't play always pistol-start though and think that the games are designed to make it possible as opposed to designed for it, so not really an issue. Speaking of, I like that the ammo scarcity in some levels, combined with each weapon using its own, means even the Wand stays useful all the way to the end. I kept using to snipe Gargoyles from afar and to clear out Golems and Saberclaws that couldn't reach me, which meant I had plenty of Claw ammo for more dangerous enemies (Ophidians and Disciples), not to mention for Toming it up and clearing large rooms. As for the Firemace it's just much more situational than the others; at point blank range the high fire rate means it shreds everything in front of you faster than anything else (I used it to great effect against those hordes of Saberclaws that like to run straight at you in tight spaces). When Tomed it's the best weapon for when you trigger an ambush in the middle of a large room and baddies spawn everywhere around you, the big ball bounces a lot and is homing, and one-shots anything that isn't a boss. The weapon being situational also means you have no qualms about using up its ammo in the few situations where it is useful.
I think E4 does have some great levels, once you get past the unfair start. The problem is that the secret level is crap, and if you're doing it that's at the halfway point, so it brings down the impression of the episode again. The following levels are really good again though, all the way to the end.
I agree bout Heretic weapons but I think the game drops the ball a bit with ammo distribution on some maps. E4M1 is a bad offender, but trying to
I think E4 does have some great levels, once you get past the unfair start. The problem is that the secret level is crap, and if you're doing it that's at the halfway point, so it brings down the impression of the episode again. The following levels are really good again though, all the way to the end.
Morpheus Kitami
Liturgist
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Personally, I like Heretic the best out of the Doom engine games, and I'm not really someone into slaughterwads. Enemies are spongy though, and while I don't remember any of the switch-hunting issues you mentioned, I haven't played it as much as Doom. My least favorite episode is E3. On Black Plague, which is what my most recent playthroughs were on, I never have much fun dealing with the Ophidians and I always seem to run out of ammo against D'Sparil.
I'm willing to bet that Raven's backtracking blues goes all the way back to the start, but I haven't played their debut. Shadowcaster had some parts where there was some crappy backtracking. Not to mention the worst of all of Raven's bonus maps tacked on a later release. The Mausoleum is shit though, I'll give you that. But then again, I've never seen any secret level that was actually worthy of being a secret level.
I'm willing to bet that Raven's backtracking blues goes all the way back to the start, but I haven't played their debut. Shadowcaster had some parts where there was some crappy backtracking. Not to mention the worst of all of Raven's bonus maps tacked on a later release. The Mausoleum is shit though, I'll give you that. But then again, I've never seen any secret level that was actually worthy of being a secret level.
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Dark Recollections (darkrec.wad 2011)
This started as a single level PWAD for Heretic called Where Serpents Ever Dwell. It must have been moderately popular, enough for the author to announce he was turning it into a full episode replacement. He then released darkrec.wad, containing the original map as well as a new map called Abhorrence. Shortly afterward the author seems to have abandoned the project as no other maps were released.
I feel Serpents could've been an ok map but it doesn't really put anything forward to make it very memorable. It has quite a big initial onslaught of enemies, which isn't too bad, but it then becomes extremely stingy with ammo right around the time it starts swarming you with ghosts. Unless you get lucky and find the Gauntlets early on (they're hidden in a secret) or are VERY conservative with your ammo you will find your path blocked by monsters who are literally immune to everything you have (the staff doesn't work on ghosts). To make matters worse, once you open the exit room you come across enough ammo to fill up three times over - right about the time you don't need any of it anymore.
Abhorrence is better. It's much more populated (270+ enemies) but ammo is better balanced (you'll still have to be careful and conserve, but it's not as unforgiving) and the fights are more fun. There are also some nice set pieces and some clever architecture (I liked the cottage with the foyer and the graveyard outside). If this trend was any indication of the author's improving mapping skills then it's a shame more maps didn't get made. There are few Heretic PWADs as is (never mind compared to the glut of Doom maps) and it would've been nice to see one more mapper developing into a good one.
EDIT: corrected factual inaccuracies in the project history, thanks to Lagi for pointing me in the right direction.
This started as a single level PWAD for Heretic called Where Serpents Ever Dwell. It must have been moderately popular, enough for the author to announce he was turning it into a full episode replacement. He then released darkrec.wad, containing the original map as well as a new map called Abhorrence. Shortly afterward the author seems to have abandoned the project as no other maps were released.
I feel Serpents could've been an ok map but it doesn't really put anything forward to make it very memorable. It has quite a big initial onslaught of enemies, which isn't too bad, but it then becomes extremely stingy with ammo right around the time it starts swarming you with ghosts. Unless you get lucky and find the Gauntlets early on (they're hidden in a secret) or are VERY conservative with your ammo you will find your path blocked by monsters who are literally immune to everything you have (the staff doesn't work on ghosts). To make matters worse, once you open the exit room you come across enough ammo to fill up three times over - right about the time you don't need any of it anymore.
Abhorrence is better. It's much more populated (270+ enemies) but ammo is better balanced (you'll still have to be careful and conserve, but it's not as unforgiving) and the fights are more fun. There are also some nice set pieces and some clever architecture (I liked the cottage with the foyer and the graveyard outside). If this trend was any indication of the author's improving mapping skills then it's a shame more maps didn't get made. There are few Heretic PWADs as is (never mind compared to the glut of Doom maps) and it would've been nice to see one more mapper developing into a good one.
EDIT: corrected factual inaccuracies in the project history, thanks to Lagi for pointing me in the right direction.
Last edited:
this one
https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/55140-dark-recollections-for-heretic-new-map/
?
it replaces map 1 and 2 in episode 1. Not so bad maps.
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Heretic: Quest for the Crystal Skulls (her_qfcs.wad 2020)
A Heretic hub-based PWAD that's actually good? Now we're talking!
I haven't played any of the 2020 Cacowards so can't say if this deserved to be a runner-up, but I'm surprised not see it being mentioned even as a nomination.
This was designed by Captain Toenail, who I don't know but who seems involved in a lot of Doom community projects (and a lot of deathmatch maps). It's a very solid and very fun episode-length series of levels with a sort-of hub structure. Not like Hexen, where you have to go back and forth, it's just a base of operations of sorts from which you can launch into your choice of mission, each self-contained (though some won't be accessible until later). It's still a nice design as it means you can carry over all your goodies to other levels, and if you ever feel stuck on one level you can go for a change of scenery.
The levels themselves are excellent. Each has a very distinct look and architecture, passages open up as you progress to minimize backtracking, and the flow is so well designed that I almost never flipped a switch without having a clue what to do next (though some are cleverly hidden). Toenail uses windows extremely well, giving you a glimpse into your next objective, or as a clue to the order you need to do things. Most maps are medium-sized with a good monster count, but they're not slaughters. Pacing is excellent and alternates exploration and combat almost as well as the official maps. Ammo is abundant, which makes it a little easier, but I'm not complaining. The one exception is the secret level, which is a full-on slaughtermap (500+ enemies!) though still a fun one (make sure you're LOADED with ammo before you start though!)
There are some new enemies to contend with, and most took me by surprise the first time. The turrets are annoyingly placed sometimes but go down easily. The Dark Masters are a mix of Disciples and D'Sparil and are quite fun to deal with. Chaos Serpents make an appearance and they're tough, somewhere between Iron Lich and Maulotaur, their attack is easy to evade but when they suddenly get a speed and power boost you'd better be careful. The flying serpents are really cool, and the first time I saw them was genuinely creepy, but they're used very predictably in all later appearances. The boss fight against the Heresiarch is annoying, he has the same abilities as in Hexen but the arena where you fight him makes it much more annoying.
It's a really fun WAD overall and I highly recommend it if you want some good Heretic action.
A Heretic hub-based PWAD that's actually good? Now we're talking!
I haven't played any of the 2020 Cacowards so can't say if this deserved to be a runner-up, but I'm surprised not see it being mentioned even as a nomination.
This was designed by Captain Toenail, who I don't know but who seems involved in a lot of Doom community projects (and a lot of deathmatch maps). It's a very solid and very fun episode-length series of levels with a sort-of hub structure. Not like Hexen, where you have to go back and forth, it's just a base of operations of sorts from which you can launch into your choice of mission, each self-contained (though some won't be accessible until later). It's still a nice design as it means you can carry over all your goodies to other levels, and if you ever feel stuck on one level you can go for a change of scenery.
The levels themselves are excellent. Each has a very distinct look and architecture, passages open up as you progress to minimize backtracking, and the flow is so well designed that I almost never flipped a switch without having a clue what to do next (though some are cleverly hidden). Toenail uses windows extremely well, giving you a glimpse into your next objective, or as a clue to the order you need to do things. Most maps are medium-sized with a good monster count, but they're not slaughters. Pacing is excellent and alternates exploration and combat almost as well as the official maps. Ammo is abundant, which makes it a little easier, but I'm not complaining. The one exception is the secret level, which is a full-on slaughtermap (500+ enemies!) though still a fun one (make sure you're LOADED with ammo before you start though!)
There are some new enemies to contend with, and most took me by surprise the first time. The turrets are annoyingly placed sometimes but go down easily. The Dark Masters are a mix of Disciples and D'Sparil and are quite fun to deal with. Chaos Serpents make an appearance and they're tough, somewhere between Iron Lich and Maulotaur, their attack is easy to evade but when they suddenly get a speed and power boost you'd better be careful. The flying serpents are really cool, and the first time I saw them was genuinely creepy, but they're used very predictably in all later appearances. The boss fight against the Heresiarch is annoying, he has the same abilities as in Hexen but the arena where you fight him makes it much more annoying.
It's a really fun WAD overall and I highly recommend it if you want some good Heretic action.
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Been playing a lot of Cacoward Heretic WADs this week.
Elf Gets Pissed (elfgp.wad 2016)
The opening level is brilliant, from the very beginning (Phoenix Rod and Tome of Power vs a small army of golems) to the way the entire level seems to rearrange itself every time you press a switch. I felt none of the later ones matched it for sheer originality and fun, but the quality is consistently excellent all the way through. Getting to the secret level is fun, as is going through it, and finding the secrets in the secret level rewards you greatly for doing so (the Lightbringer, replacing the slot 7 weapon, can only be found there). The final battle is an arena fight in stages but a really fun one. Level design uses simple-looking geometry to build some really cool architecture and set pieces. If any of these levels had showed up in the base game I don't think I'd have noticed a difference. Fights can be gimmicky (one entire level is basically just that) but it's extremely well balanced. Puzzles are clever but won't make you pull your hair out. There's an irreverent tone about the whole thing (driven home with the epilogue text) that makes it a pleasure to go through. Great WAD and totally deserving the award.
The Wayfarer (wayfarer.wad 2019)
This is in many ways the opposite. Fights quickly degenerate into the worst kind of slaughterfest, where you get locked into a small arena with dozens of scripted-spawned enemies and can't leave until you kill them all. Architecture abuses over-detailing so much that the frame rate drops in software, even though that's the recommended and designed-for rendering mode. To make matters worse some of the puzzles require you to recognize what texture the switch is disguised as, which can easily get lost in all the detail. Levels are also huge, and getting stuck involves a LOT of backtracking trying to find what you missed. I can sort of see why it got an award, as it does look very pretty in parts, but there's just too much detail and I enjoyed neither combat nor puzzles.
Curse of D'Sparil (curse.wad 2010)
I liked this one a lot more, at least at first. The levels get progressively bigger and more populated, but even at 400 enemies in a single map it doesn't play like a slaughterfest, thanks to the way they get trotted out. I thought the pacing was excellent, alternating between fights, exploration and puzzle-solving, and the puzzles can give pause but never made me feel like I was stuck. When I hit M4 I fell in love with the map: it's big, it's very nicely detailed but not overdone, and despite a dirty trick later on (the entire second act of the map can't be automapped) the puzzle is so well done and so well hinted at with visual clues that I enjoyed it tremendously, and finding the secret exit was a TON of fun. Unfortunately I feel the quality dips a bit after this; the secret level is obnoxiously full of backtracking (even after you clue out the gimmick) and the later maps turn a bit more slaughter and a bit more tedious. Still stays more on the good side of the line, and the final battle is quite fun and as far as I know uses quite a unique gimmick. Despite getting tired of it by the end I absolutely recommend the WAD for how good the first half is.
Elf Gets Pissed (elfgp.wad 2016)
The opening level is brilliant, from the very beginning (Phoenix Rod and Tome of Power vs a small army of golems) to the way the entire level seems to rearrange itself every time you press a switch. I felt none of the later ones matched it for sheer originality and fun, but the quality is consistently excellent all the way through. Getting to the secret level is fun, as is going through it, and finding the secrets in the secret level rewards you greatly for doing so (the Lightbringer, replacing the slot 7 weapon, can only be found there). The final battle is an arena fight in stages but a really fun one. Level design uses simple-looking geometry to build some really cool architecture and set pieces. If any of these levels had showed up in the base game I don't think I'd have noticed a difference. Fights can be gimmicky (one entire level is basically just that) but it's extremely well balanced. Puzzles are clever but won't make you pull your hair out. There's an irreverent tone about the whole thing (driven home with the epilogue text) that makes it a pleasure to go through. Great WAD and totally deserving the award.
The Wayfarer (wayfarer.wad 2019)
This is in many ways the opposite. Fights quickly degenerate into the worst kind of slaughterfest, where you get locked into a small arena with dozens of scripted-spawned enemies and can't leave until you kill them all. Architecture abuses over-detailing so much that the frame rate drops in software, even though that's the recommended and designed-for rendering mode. To make matters worse some of the puzzles require you to recognize what texture the switch is disguised as, which can easily get lost in all the detail. Levels are also huge, and getting stuck involves a LOT of backtracking trying to find what you missed. I can sort of see why it got an award, as it does look very pretty in parts, but there's just too much detail and I enjoyed neither combat nor puzzles.
Curse of D'Sparil (curse.wad 2010)
I liked this one a lot more, at least at first. The levels get progressively bigger and more populated, but even at 400 enemies in a single map it doesn't play like a slaughterfest, thanks to the way they get trotted out. I thought the pacing was excellent, alternating between fights, exploration and puzzle-solving, and the puzzles can give pause but never made me feel like I was stuck. When I hit M4 I fell in love with the map: it's big, it's very nicely detailed but not overdone, and despite a dirty trick later on (the entire second act of the map can't be automapped) the puzzle is so well done and so well hinted at with visual clues that I enjoyed it tremendously, and finding the secret exit was a TON of fun. Unfortunately I feel the quality dips a bit after this; the secret level is obnoxiously full of backtracking (even after you clue out the gimmick) and the later maps turn a bit more slaughter and a bit more tedious. Still stays more on the good side of the line, and the final battle is quite fun and as far as I know uses quite a unique gimmick. Despite getting tired of it by the end I absolutely recommend the WAD for how good the first half is.
Sjukob
Arcane
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Sceptic
The wayfarer does everything the slaughterwad has to do to be good: it has big beatiful maps, good soundtrack, good difficulty and of course a big number of monsters. In general, playing slaughter stuff in Heretic is way less stressful than in Doom, because you don't have to deal with hitscanners, revenants and archviles, although I think that slaughterfest is an acquired taste. Also, I really like the gameplay changes it introduces.
I agree that "elf gets pissed" is all around excellent, no idea why people gave me negative ratings for mentioning it.
The wayfarer does everything the slaughterwad has to do to be good: it has big beatiful maps, good soundtrack, good difficulty and of course a big number of monsters. In general, playing slaughter stuff in Heretic is way less stressful than in Doom, because you don't have to deal with hitscanners, revenants and archviles, although I think that slaughterfest is an acquired taste. Also, I really like the gameplay changes it introduces.
I agree that "elf gets pissed" is all around excellent, no idea why people gave me negative ratings for mentioning it.
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I guess I'm not a fan of slaughterwads (I kinda already knew that), judging by my reaction to Wayfarer. Once I move to Doom WADs it'll be interesting to see my reaction to the ones there, as IIRC there are a lot of seminal WADs for Doom that are slaughterwads (Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed, and so on). I'm also more appreciative of the older design school that emphasizes beautiful simplicity rather than detail-detail-detail, though do I agree Wayfarer looks very pretty. I think I also agree with you about Heretic slaughter playing differently since there are no hitscanners or achviles; I think the revenants kinda get replaced by nitrogolems. I feel Heretic's weapons are weaker than Doom's, and enemies feel spongier as a result. Maybe I would've liked the wad more if the slaughter was less arena-based or if I hadn't gotten stuck on some of the puzzles (I forgot to mention one of the scripts failed to fire at one point - possibly not the mapper's fault, as everything looked fine when I looked in SLADE, but I was pretty annoyed at how much time I spent trying to look for a puzzle that I had already completed but had bugged out).
Regarding Elf Gets Pissed, I admit it gave me a silly, almost stupid vibe on first impression, and I approached it with some suspicion. Maybe that's a an impression others have of it still.
Did you ever play Curse BTW? I'm curious what you'd think of it, since you seem to like slaughterwads more than I do, and it has the monster count of one even though I thought it plays quite differently.
Regarding Elf Gets Pissed, I admit it gave me a silly, almost stupid vibe on first impression, and I approached it with some suspicion. Maybe that's a an impression others have of it still.
Did you ever play Curse BTW? I'm curious what you'd think of it, since you seem to like slaughterwads more than I do, and it has the monster count of one even though I thought it plays quite differently.
Jack Of Owls
Arcane
Though I hadn't played a DOOM wad in a very long time I remember there was a particularly devious map in one of the Japanese Community Map Packs where you had to figure out a way to get the end of this corridor-style military installation or something and kill the archie hidden back there else it would be endlessly resurrecting every baddie you slaughtered which in turn was protecting the archie. Man, was that vicious and I never even saw the archie (though I could hear him) let alone figured out how to beat that map.
Sjukob
Arcane
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- Jul 3, 2015
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- 2,093
Alien Vendetta isn't a slaughterwad, there are some encounters with big groups of monsters, but it's not common, the wad is mostly about traversing big levels. If you want an advice on some really good Doom stuff, then take a look at SkillSaw works (Vanguard, Valiant, Ancient Aliens, he recently released Heartland, but I haven't palyed it yet) I recommend them to everyone, because they are some of the best wads you will ever find for Doom.
I've tried playing it, but found it so extremely tedious that I gave up on the third map.
How do you like Ancient Aliens?
Finaly got to play and finish Ancient Aliens. What a fantastic wad ! Good gameplay, cool new enemies, stunning visuals, nice music, lots of memorable levels.
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All 4 wads you listed are on my to-play list, as is the Jap CP Jack mentioned. I will get to them eventually but might take a while, the list is YUGE.
Interesting that you didn't like Curse, we seem to have pretty opposite tastes on Curse and Wayfarer but we both liked EGP. Then again Curratum and I both like Curse, he likes Wayfarer and I like EGP...
For now I'm content to just play everything even if I end up not liking it hugely, episode-length wads go by pretty quickly and I'm not against turning down the difficulty if I find it too much. I think this will only become a problem with the really huge megawads where each of the 32 maps takes over an hour, but I don't think there are a lot of these?
Interesting that you didn't like Curse, we seem to have pretty opposite tastes on Curse and Wayfarer but we both liked EGP. Then again Curratum and I both like Curse, he likes Wayfarer and I like EGP...
For now I'm content to just play everything even if I end up not liking it hugely, episode-length wads go by pretty quickly and I'm not against turning down the difficulty if I find it too much. I think this will only become a problem with the really huge megawads where each of the 32 maps takes over an hour, but I don't think there are a lot of these?
Ol' Willy
Arcane
Hell Revealed isn't a slaughterwad either. It has shitton of enemies but level design is closer to classical
Curratum
Guest
To my mind, both AV and HR start out as classical and then around the mid-point turn into slaughter wads.
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
- Joined
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- 58,298
Lyric Suite
Converting to Islam
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
- Messages
- 58,298
Yeah but what if you are playing wads and not the original.
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