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Game journalists CRAP reviews.

Joined
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Messages
9,263
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Italy
company of heroes 2 was because delicious ruskies butthurt.

i'd be curious to know about positive deltas too, cases where journos trashed apparent masterpieces.
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
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Messages
13,164
deterministic system > RNG
 
Last edited:

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,577
company of heroes 2 was because delicious ruskies butthurt.

i'd be curious to know about positive deltas too, cases where journos trashed apparent masterpieces.

In this case there is a lot of noise... (few user reviews). If I filter out games with less than 10 different reviews this is what I obtain:

e1xG3As.png


Edit: by the way, if someone is interested the data I used is available at
https://www.kaggle.com/skateddu/metacritic-games-stats-20112019
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
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Messages
13,164
deterministic system > RNG
 
Last edited:

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,577
Do you also have access to file with better game descriptions so one can join and try to get more meaningful data?

No, this is the most complete that I have found at the moment. For a better analysis I should write a specific webscraping script for Metacritic (I have done in the past something similar for Mobygames and Steam). Maybe I will do that in the near future if I am particularly bored... (thanks to
coofcoof.png
)
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
13,164
deterministic system > RNG
 
Last edited:

BlackGoat

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
505
Hollow Knight feels too familiar, despite being a solid metroidvania
Rings a little

John Walker

2nd March 2017 / 5:00PM


Hollow Knight [official site] presents a peculiar issue. What do you do with a game that is genuinely good, but rather unoriginal? A game that is so, so similar to others that have come recently before it, but is still a beautifully drawn, solidly built metroidvania? Do you say, “Get this one, because it’s the most recent?” That’s not a coherent argument. Unfortunately for Hollow Knight, I think the design decisions that narrowly define it are really its core weaknesses.

I love these sorts of games. I can wile away many hours jumping around their labyrinthine caves, eeking out new abilities to reach new areas, incrementally improving my health, jump, attacks and skills so that what was once a challenge becomes a corridor on the way to the new challenge. It’s a wonderful model, and it’s been done wonderfully many times before. So Hollow’s choices to make what are stalwarts of the genre into its most frustrating features is a disappointing decision. I have played for a good few hours, but am only a fraction of the way into the game. Keep that in mind as you read.

We’re not short of competition. This year has already offered us the utterly splendid Alwa’s Awakening, then just a few months back we had the triumphant release of Owlboy. 2016 also saw the competent (but extraordinarily familiar) Song Of The Deep, and the sublime Ori & The Blind Forest’s definitive edition. Then there’s Aquaria, Axiom Verge, Environmental Station Alpha, The Swapper, VVVVVV, Cave Story+, Guacamelee, and the dozen others you’re annoyed I’ve not listed. And of that list, most problematic for Hollow Knight is Ori & The Blind Forest.

The two games have a great deal in common, but Ori is just better in every element. And sure, that’s an awkward critical path (“this game isn’t as good as the best example of this genre”), but it starts to become a more imposing issue when the game in question appears to bring nothing new to the table.

In Hollow Knight, you play a bug-like creature exploring (wait for this) a formerly rich and vibrant underground world that is now grey and ruined. Goodness me, how did they think of this?! At the start you’re limited to a melee attack and a basic jump, and as you progress through its caves you gain new skills and buy others from a growing number of above-ground merchants. Out of reach areas become in reach when you gain, say, a dash move, which leads you to new zones and their fresh crop of currently impassable obstacles. It is, to put it more briefly, a stock metroidvania.

From this foundation most games listed a couple of paragraphs above bring their own new details. Owlboy has your character able to carry another in his talons, bringing in their unique abilities as you fly through its world. The Swapper has its key mechanic to make it stand out. Ori has a tale of deep emotion, breathtaking art and… well, here’s the rub. Ori is actually not especially original – it just messed things up for those that come after it by taking the core foundations and delivering them with something close to perfection. So when Hollow Knight steps onto the battlefield with no unique weapon of its own, Ori just squishes it.

I began by alluding to its weaknesses and perhaps now I name them you’ll take umbrage. Hollow Knight takes core features of the genre and then tries to tell you they’re special. Like, perhaps at its most egregious, your position on a map. Maps are tricky enough here, with new zones not possible to even map as you explore them – you have to buy or find a pre-created map to even bring up the map screen for an area, and then fill in the dotted lines of where you’ve yet to explore. Quite why your character can’t know that they just walked down a path and went left I’m not sure, but that’s how it is. You can spend long stretches aimlessly stumbling around until you find your way out. But on top of this, to see where your character is on a map when you have one is considered a feature, a special ability gained by purchasing it from a shop and then using one of your precious ability slots to implement it. A basic standard of the genre, locked up behind a purchase and a skill use. So, so weird.

So rather than enjoying a burgeoning pool of abilities, you’re restricted to however many ability slots you have, and choosing between them. I’d love to use the skill I paid a small fortune for that makes drops magnetically attracted toward me, but I really can’t live without the extra soul gathering from attacked enemies (used for both healing and crucial ranged attacks), and knowing where the hell I am on the near-identical monochrome section of a level at any point. Any other game in the genre lets me have all three without a fuss, and doesn’t even consider one of them a special feature.

My other big issue here is again something that might have you cry, “At last! What I’ve always wanted!”, and all power to you. The game feels way too loose and sprawling to me. With a real lack of direction about why you’re there, what you’re trying to achieve, and why you should want to go anywhere beyond ‘because it’s there’, the openness of the multiple zones ends up leaving me feeling agoraphobic rather than freed. You know that eventually you’ll hit an ability wall, perhaps a chimney of rock with alternating spikes on either side, and you’ll think, “Oh, I’m going to be able to bounce off walls at some point then,” but there’s no notion of how, or where, or when, or why. There are so many dead ends to go in at once! I’m left wishing for some allusion toward direction, or at least a more meaningful motivation for such rambling.

All this said, it delivers on what it delivers. The movement is fast but sturdy, the combat nifty, and the artwork is really lovely. Its choice of greys and muted greens and blues doesn’t do it enormous favours, and each area is pretty monotone. Animations are great, and the world is pleasingly detailed, but it also feels flat and dulled. Again, the comparison with Ori is a heavy blow, and if you were choosing between the two it’d be another strike against.

But perhaps you’re not. Perhaps you just want to plough through another metroidvania (if only we had a better name than that), and then this is a fine game for you. It ticks most of the boxes, completely with difficulty spike bosses that make me want to carve my hate for the experience in the sides of mountains, but apparently people love those. It’s a pretty, competent, if needlessly frustrated standard of the standard. That might be just what you need.

If you’re looking for something like this, then get yourself Ori & The Blind Forest, which is truly tremendous.
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,697
I tried to plot all the average scores from Metacritic for the years 2010-2019
can you narrow this down to rpg genre?

it appears that over time spread is getting lower for jurnos

This is more tricky since in Metacritic every game can have more than one genre tag, and the data that I have in this moment has a record only for the first tag. Also some Metacritic tag names, for example "General" , I don't know what they mean. These are the results:

dkjo6LD.png
Interesting. With the exception of horror, every genre has a vast difference in the ratings between reviewers and players. Every "theme" (sci-fi, fantasy, horror, modern) stays flat more or less.
There are five datapoints for RPGs below a 25 rating. I'm assuming those are userscores, although there are quite a few under 25 either way. These are mostly mobile/MMO crap and the odd high profile faliure. Were the remake of Realms of Arkania and Majestic Nights really that bad?
Not your fault, but most of the games they list as adventure games are only adventure games if you're a retarded monkey.
Its a bad sign for sports titles if people think decline is going on. What interests me is what was that big spat of crap in 2017?
 

amandachen

Novice
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
6
I can wile away many hours jumping around their labyrinthine caves, eeking out new abilities to reach new areas...

Typo city. Yeah, you can tell he was mentored by Kieron Gillen.
 

kain30

Cipher
Joined
Aug 7, 2014
Messages
545
Location
spain
Game journalism is rubbish. I'm thankful for longplay no comments videos to check if i'm going to like a game.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
Yeah, I think Oblivion was the first one to have instant fast-travel like that, at least in an open-world RPG. But the quest compass is much older... I wrote an article about it back in 2016: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Fel...e_Quest_Compass__its_dreadful_convenience.php

In short, games like GTA 1 already had it since 1997. Then some other games began using it, most famously Crazy Taxi. Oblivion was the first RPG to use it, but it was already becoming an industry thing... when WoW began having fan-made UI mods in early 2007 to add quest tracking, they were called "Crazy Taxi arrows", not quest compasses:

MkLlvhL.jpg


As much as I hate Oblivion, I think WoW's influence did MUCH more damage to quest design.
Virtual Hydlide has it and it's a 1995 RPG. So you are actually wrong by saying you can go back to 1997, No it goes way before 1997 and Oblivion isn't the first RPG using it by telling you where the objective is without any explanation.
I don't know if Virtual Hydlide is the first RPG using quest compass like modern ones by literally telling you the exact location of your objective because otherwise you don't know where the objective is( No NPC and No town) . But if it's really this game that was an inspiration for other games in term of hand-holding,therefore it means that even a bad design choice coming from the worst game available can be used and reutilized or even populirized in other popular games.
In short Stop saying that Oblivion is the first RPG using quest compass ,it's not. As for now, it's Virtual Hydlide.
Virtual%20Hydlide%20(E).png
 
Last edited by a moderator:

felipepepe

Codex's Heretic
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
17,310
Location
Terra da Garoa
Yeah, I think Oblivion was the first one to have instant fast-travel like that, at least in an open-world RPG. But the quest compass is much older... I wrote an article about it back in 2016: https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Fel...e_Quest_Compass__its_dreadful_convenience.php

In short, games like GTA 1 already had it since 1997. Then some other games began using it, most famously Crazy Taxi. Oblivion was the first RPG to use it, but it was already becoming an industry thing... when WoW began having fan-made UI mods in early 2007 to add quest tracking, they were called "Crazy Taxi arrows", not quest compasses:

MkLlvhL.jpg


As much as I hate Oblivion, I think WoW's influence did MUCH more damage to quest design.
Virtual Hydlide has it and it's a 1995 RPG. So you are actually wrong by saying you can go back to 1997, No it goes way before 1997 and Oblivion isn't the first RPG using it by telling you where the objective is without any explanation.
I don't know if Virtual Hydlide is the first RPG using quest compass like modern ones by literally telling you the exact location of your objective because otherwise you don't know where the objective is( No NPC and No town) . But if it's really this game that was an inspiration for other games in term of hand-holding,therefore it means that even a bad design choice coming from the worst game available can be used and reutilized or even populirized in other popular games.
In short Stop saying that Oblivion is the first RPG using quest compass ,it's not. As for now, it's Virtual Hydlide.
Virtual%20Hydlide%20(E).png
That's interesting, and the compass actually changes functionality depending on the difficulty:

GrV4BQe.jpg


That's new info for me, it definitely came earlier, but I still think it's fair to say that Crazy Taxi, GTA III, Oblivion and WoW were the ones who set the trend for the industry.
 
Last edited:

Grauken

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
13,173
Hollow Knight feels too familiar, despite being a solid metroidvania
Rings a little

John Walker

2nd March 2017 / 5:00PM


Hollow Knight [official site] presents a peculiar issue. What do you do with a game that is genuinely good, but rather unoriginal? A game that is so, so similar to others that have come recently before it, but is still a beautifully drawn, solidly built metroidvania? Do you say, “Get this one, because it’s the most recent?” That’s not a coherent argument. Unfortunately for Hollow Knight, I think the design decisions that narrowly define it are really its core weaknesses.

I love these sorts of games. I can wile away many hours jumping around their labyrinthine caves, eeking out new abilities to reach new areas, incrementally improving my health, jump, attacks and skills so that what was once a challenge becomes a corridor on the way to the new challenge. It’s a wonderful model, and it’s been done wonderfully many times before. So Hollow’s choices to make what are stalwarts of the genre into its most frustrating features is a disappointing decision. I have played for a good few hours, but am only a fraction of the way into the game. Keep that in mind as you read.

We’re not short of competition. This year has already offered us the utterly splendid Alwa’s Awakening, then just a few months back we had the triumphant release of Owlboy. 2016 also saw the competent (but extraordinarily familiar) Song Of The Deep, and the sublime Ori & The Blind Forest’s definitive edition. Then there’s Aquaria, Axiom Verge, Environmental Station Alpha, The Swapper, VVVVVV, Cave Story+, Guacamelee, and the dozen others you’re annoyed I’ve not listed. And of that list, most problematic for Hollow Knight is Ori & The Blind Forest.

The two games have a great deal in common, but Ori is just better in every element. And sure, that’s an awkward critical path (“this game isn’t as good as the best example of this genre”), but it starts to become a more imposing issue when the game in question appears to bring nothing new to the table.

In Hollow Knight, you play a bug-like creature exploring (wait for this) a formerly rich and vibrant underground world that is now grey and ruined. Goodness me, how did they think of this?! At the start you’re limited to a melee attack and a basic jump, and as you progress through its caves you gain new skills and buy others from a growing number of above-ground merchants. Out of reach areas become in reach when you gain, say, a dash move, which leads you to new zones and their fresh crop of currently impassable obstacles. It is, to put it more briefly, a stock metroidvania.

From this foundation most games listed a couple of paragraphs above bring their own new details. Owlboy has your character able to carry another in his talons, bringing in their unique abilities as you fly through its world. The Swapper has its key mechanic to make it stand out. Ori has a tale of deep emotion, breathtaking art and… well, here’s the rub. Ori is actually not especially original – it just messed things up for those that come after it by taking the core foundations and delivering them with something close to perfection. So when Hollow Knight steps onto the battlefield with no unique weapon of its own, Ori just squishes it.

I began by alluding to its weaknesses and perhaps now I name them you’ll take umbrage. Hollow Knight takes core features of the genre and then tries to tell you they’re special. Like, perhaps at its most egregious, your position on a map. Maps are tricky enough here, with new zones not possible to even map as you explore them – you have to buy or find a pre-created map to even bring up the map screen for an area, and then fill in the dotted lines of where you’ve yet to explore. Quite why your character can’t know that they just walked down a path and went left I’m not sure, but that’s how it is. You can spend long stretches aimlessly stumbling around until you find your way out. But on top of this, to see where your character is on a map when you have one is considered a feature, a special ability gained by purchasing it from a shop and then using one of your precious ability slots to implement it. A basic standard of the genre, locked up behind a purchase and a skill use. So, so weird.

So rather than enjoying a burgeoning pool of abilities, you’re restricted to however many ability slots you have, and choosing between them. I’d love to use the skill I paid a small fortune for that makes drops magnetically attracted toward me, but I really can’t live without the extra soul gathering from attacked enemies (used for both healing and crucial ranged attacks), and knowing where the hell I am on the near-identical monochrome section of a level at any point. Any other game in the genre lets me have all three without a fuss, and doesn’t even consider one of them a special feature.

My other big issue here is again something that might have you cry, “At last! What I’ve always wanted!”, and all power to you. The game feels way too loose and sprawling to me. With a real lack of direction about why you’re there, what you’re trying to achieve, and why you should want to go anywhere beyond ‘because it’s there’, the openness of the multiple zones ends up leaving me feeling agoraphobic rather than freed. You know that eventually you’ll hit an ability wall, perhaps a chimney of rock with alternating spikes on either side, and you’ll think, “Oh, I’m going to be able to bounce off walls at some point then,” but there’s no notion of how, or where, or when, or why. There are so many dead ends to go in at once! I’m left wishing for some allusion toward direction, or at least a more meaningful motivation for such rambling.

All this said, it delivers on what it delivers. The movement is fast but sturdy, the combat nifty, and the artwork is really lovely. Its choice of greys and muted greens and blues doesn’t do it enormous favours, and each area is pretty monotone. Animations are great, and the world is pleasingly detailed, but it also feels flat and dulled. Again, the comparison with Ori is a heavy blow, and if you were choosing between the two it’d be another strike against.

But perhaps you’re not. Perhaps you just want to plough through another metroidvania (if only we had a better name than that), and then this is a fine game for you. It ticks most of the boxes, completely with difficulty spike bosses that make me want to carve my hate for the experience in the sides of mountains, but apparently people love those. It’s a pretty, competent, if needlessly frustrated standard of the standard. That might be just what you need.

If you’re looking for something like this, then get yourself Ori & The Blind Forest, which is truly tremendous.

Was a good day when he got fired from RPS, one less outlet for his garbage
 

BlackGoat

Arbiter
Joined
Sep 15, 2014
Messages
505
Was a good day when he got fired from RPS, one less outlet for his garbage
If only. It seems he still has a fairly regular spot there.

Here's some more amusing Walker crap. On January 20th of this year, he posted this article Zak McKracken And The Alien Mindbenders: The LucasArts game you don't want to play any more where he writes

"The Lucasfilm Games adventure first came out for Commodore 64 in 1988, then for Atari ST – on which I first played it – in 1989. So I would have been 11 years old. I’m pretty sure I’ve never played it in the intervening 31 years. "

Then this happened in the comments.

6vSIDQX.png


Wow indeed. The link in the comment goes here Eurogamer Retro: Zak McKracken, also written by John Walker, in which.... he wrote basically the same article, 10 years earlier.
 
Last edited:

Grauken

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
13,173
Was a good day when he got fired from RPS, one less outlet for his garbage
If only. It seems he still has a fairly regular spot there.

Here's some more amusing Walker crap. On January 20th of this year, he posted this article Zak McKracken And The Alien Mindbenders: The LucasArts game you don't want to play any more where he writes

"The Lucasfilm Games adventure first came out for Commodore 64 in 1988, then for Atari ST – on which I first played it – in 1989. So I would have been 11 years old. I’m pretty sure I’ve never played it in the intervening 31 years. "

Then this happened in the comments.

6vSIDQX.png


Wow indeed. The link in the comment goes here Eurogamer Retro: Zak McKracken, also written by John Walker, in which.... he wrote basically the same article, 10 years earlier.

Lol, Walker is like the very definition of NPC
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,697
This Walker guy is terrible at getting his point across. After reading his review I want to play that game, and I don't really care for Lucasarts adventure games. Something tells me he isn't intending that interpretation. But death of the author and all that jazz.
 

Duralux for Durabux

Guest
That's interesting, and the compass actually changes functionality depending on the difficulty:

GrV4BQe.jpg


That's new info for me, it definitely came earlier, but I still think it's fair to say that Crazy Taxi, GTA III, Oblivion and WoW were the ones who set the trend for the industry.
Well there is a hard difficulty on Virtual hydlide but
  1. Map changes everytime you start a new game
  2. Since the map changes everytime, it's almost impossible or extremely difficult to know where the objectives are. Remember the game doesn't tell you about where you have to go (it tells you , you have to find 3 fairies and that's all no NPC and no town in the whole game)
  3. Game always runs at 5 FPS
  4. All of those points make the Hard difficulty , the most tedious, unbalanced , boring difficulty in a game. So it's like the hard difficulty doesn't exist, you must have the quest compass in this game because the game doesn't tell you a single clue about your objective.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Jul 11, 2019
Messages
17,012
Location
Frostfell
Modern game journalists = "I can't kill a insect swarm with an axe, 0/10"

Game journalists on 90s talking about Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager



I agreed with a game journalist? That there are too many clicks required on inventory management and that some mundane quests are boring? But despite this flaws, the game is AMAZING? I an surprised...
 

gerey

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
3,472
I am of the opinion that, unironically, and without hyperbole, we ought to euthanize game journalists for the betterment of our species and to safeguard the human gene pool. Also, take note that they gave Dean Takashi a head-start to ensure he had a fair chance against the pigeon.









 

Nifft Batuff

Prophet
Joined
Nov 14, 2018
Messages
3,577
Imagine a work where you are paid to play games. And you are not even able to do that.
 
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
9,263
Location
Italy
wait, devil's advocate. in those first three videos they clearly play a fps with a pad. that's a torture, against geneva convention, and i'm willing to cut them some slack because i tried it once and played like that, or even worse.
problem is it was my first time, they're modern journos and they spend their whole days playing fpss with a pad.

last two are just retarded.
 

gerey

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
3,472
they're modern journos and they spend their whole days playing fpss with a pad
In the video for Doom Eternal and Cuphead it is the same dude, Dean Takahashi. To quote:

Dean Takahashi is the lead writer for GamesBeat at VentureBeat. He has been a tech journalist for more than 28 years, and he has covered games for 21 years.

The guy has been a game journalist for 21 years. Twenty-one years. Two one. Now imagine the kind of brain damage you would need to have to be unable to learn how to play games effectively in two decades.
 

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