Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Galactic Civilizations III

Ashery

Prophet
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
1,337

All the power, control, and freedom of computer generated graphics and they come up with something that looks completely human save for an extra third of a head stacked on top. I hate how it seems as though alien design outside earlier cinema/television still clings to the need for aliens to vaguely resemble humans in order to be played by a human actor. Maybe Blindsight has spoiled me in terms of truly alien aliens, but c'mon...

Oh, and gotta love the marketing speech re:hexes. Equidistant? The fuck? I'd accept distances being distorted to the viewer, but equidistant? And if we're talking about distances being distorted, hexes still do that. It's just not as glaringly obvious.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2012
Messages
3,438
Location
Lost Hills bunker
I see they have been inspired by mass effect "aliens". :hmmm:

Seems like this one will be another "imaginative" stardock game.

When will someone competent and imaginative but with a pretty large budget get to finally make MOO4 or at least a spiritual successor? Where's the wonder? Where are the space monsters? Weird planets? Races? Cool tech you could research? Dangerous unexplored nebulas and ancient artifacts? Interesting combat and ship design? Seems to me it's important nowadays to be able to make a space ship in the shape of a penis, more so than being able to have a gameplay impactful and meaningful ship design without unnecessary gimmicks.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,891
Location
Lulea, Sweden
“All of the data side of the game will be available in an editor,” Boyer explains, “and I think that the people who have gone through the hoops to make crazy mods in GalCiv II, their heads are going to explode.” He’s also prepared for the dark side of user-generated content. “I’m ready for an assault of penis-shaped ships – that goes without saying.”

Guy know what he is talking about.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
After the Elemental debacle, I only expecting an Excel spreadsheet simulator, this time a prettier and 64 bits spreadsheet simulator... Stardock should start hiring creative people as Galactic Civ 2 was boring as fuck and Elemental was... Elemental.
 

Brinko

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
884
After the Elemental debacle, I only expecting an Excel spreadsheet simulator, this time a prettier and 64 bits spreadsheet simulator... Stardock should start hiring creative people as Galactic Civ 2 was boring as fuck and Elemental was... Elemental.
Nah bro is gonna be great because
“We’ve had games in the past where bad things happened because they had to be out a certain time. So this game will be released when it’s done, and we’re going to make sure it’s awesome.” Which means you might want to add a fifth X here for "exhale," as we might be waiting a while.

So as you can see this will be absolutely perfect in all ways. :troll:
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,404
So, are they going to give the lead designer position to a guy responsible for the art design of a few of the most boring and unimaginative races and ship design in a 4x space game? Now, that is rewarding an employee for really trying.:lol:
 

Gord

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
7,049
Top items on my personal wishlist would be better AI, more interesting research (although Twilight of the Arnor had improved it somewhat) and weapons/subsystems that do more than just increase damage or defense.
Stuff like the Ion Beam from MOO2, or the black hole generator (although that would mean switching to manual combat, which wouldn't be so bad either, thinking of it).
 

Brinko

Arcane
Joined
May 7, 2012
Messages
884
http://www.pcgamesn.com/galactic-civilizations-3-preview-were-making-galciv-2-we-always-wanted
GalacCiv3%20screens%2002_0.png

Reading between the lines of an interview with Galactic Civilizations designer Paul Boyer and Stardock CEO Brad Wardell, they seem a little anxious about maintaining the values that made Galactic Civilizations II the best game Stardock ever developed. They return a lot to the theme of their own naivete in the mid-2000s, the fact that they did some things with GalCiv 2 because they didn’t know any better, and stumbled into some magic.

Stardock have changed a lot in the last few years, and while they’re a more professional and knowledgeable group of developers now, they don’t want to lose the freedom they brought to Galactic Civilizations 2. As Boyer puts it, “You can kind of tell that there's a labor of love in there, and that causes people to get much more attached to it.... Nowadays everything’s just so polished down to the bare essentials. Players like to have something where they can feel like — I don’t know — like it's alive. Like there's stuff there to discover.”



Galactic Civilizations II remains one of Stardock’s biggest successes, to the point of being puzzling. “The sales of GalCiv 2 were actually higher last year than they had been in the year before,” Wardell says. “We've put some considerable effort in trying to understand that. That’s not how it's supposed to work, if you understand.”

Even though Galactic Civilizations 2 remains popular, Wardell and Boyer know the game is out of date. The interface drives them crazy now, especially its lack of helpful tooltips. Entire systems, like the economy and the “planetary approval rating” don’t really work in the ways that they want. They can see the places where they had to down-tools because of budgetary or technical constraints, and they’ve only identified more problems over time.

“Essentially, we’re not really so much making GalCiv 3 as we’re making the GalCiv 2 that we always wanted,” Boyer says. “There's always the, ‘Oh, I wish we could revisit how we did this part of the ships,’ or things like that. And now we can.”

Writing away in margaritaville
One area where Stardock really want to improve is the fiction. While GalCiv 2 definitely has fans who know the various races and their history, Wardell is more than willing to concede that Stardock may not have taken the most professional or thoughtful approach to creating the fictional backdrop for their sci-fi 4X.

“In GalCiv II,” Wardell relates, “Paul, myself, and Kristin — Paul’s wife — we did a show called ‘Power User TV’. We would literally go to a pub and with a notebook, and spit out all the writing after margaritas. It was meant for some interesting dialogue but that’s probably not a good system in hindsight.”

While Boyer argues that margarita-fueled writing worked wonders for his attitude, Stardock are nevertheless bring in full-time writers and trying to make the fiction come to life a bit more in the game.

brad%20wardell_0_0.jpg


Wardell points to the Yor Collective, a robot faction, as an example of the kind of faction customization Stardock are trying to do.

“Up until [The Twilight of Arnor expansion for GalCiv 2], the Yor farmed. The Yor robots had farms, right? Like, what the hell? Why do the Yor have farms? Oh, because there's only one tech tree, so what are we going to do?” Wardell says.

While they eventually stamped that out with Twilight of Arnor, GalCiv 3 is beginning with custom tech trees for every race. That should give each civilization a distinctive style that underscores their fictional identity. It also, however, creates some headaches for Stardock. Especially because GalCiv’s tech trees are not just about the order in which players discover things, the way they are in Civilization. Right from the start in GalCiv 3, players have to choose which lines of research they will pursue at the exclusion of others. Nobody can expect to completely fill-out a tech tree, and trying to be comprehensive will result in a mediocre civilization.

Ship to ship
The greater variation between factions and their research paths will, Stardock hope, make ship customization a little more relevant to players and encourage more diversity when fleet-building.

“[Ship design] was a little bit hollow because there weren’t a lot of special things you can put on there,” Wardell admits. “Now, there's a lot more stuff you could put on your ships that have interesting and fun ramifications... The ship design thing kind of was one of things that was not originally a major part of the design but it really took off as we had more and more fun with it, but because it wasn’t such a core part of the GalCiv II original design, it didn’t get flushed out.”

GalacCiv3%20screens%2004_1_0.png


While Stardock aren’t going in a Master of Orion-style direction, they are definitely trying to add a little more nuance to ship design. Weapons no longer automatically hit, which introduces new complications for commanders trying to choose their weapons systems, and opens new opportunities for countermeasures and more evasive designs. Wardell hopes this creates a lot more counterplay at the ship design and fleet-composition levels.

“If one player has gone down the road of having let’s say a really nasty, short range ships that are heavily armored and really tough but slow, the other guy can then focus on and can try to counter that by having nimble, long range ships that try to nibble at them as they stay away,” Wardell says. “You need to keep an eye on what other players are doing. In a lot of these games you just go to war with everybody. ‘Hey, I'm the toughest guy in the block, right? I'm tough. I will just go conquer everyone.’ You can't do that in GalCiv 3, because you need to pick and choose who your enemies are.”

More bits, more bite
GalCiv 2 was one of the first games to make use of multi-threading, which allowed Wardell to push the AI much farther than many of the game’s contemporaries. But now that Stardock are building GalCiv 3 on a 64-bit platform, Wardell thinks they can get even more sophisticated behavior while still making improvements to the pace of play and functionality.

“The AI cab essentially play the game within the player’s [turn]. ...That’s one of the things that we get by having 64-bit that that would've been insane to try to do back then. Basically, you're running two copies of the game at the same time. The other thing is that because we have so many cores to deal with ...every computer player gets their own thread,” Wardell explains.

That also helps cut down on turn-cycles times, which should make the game’s pacing snappy and responsive. But Wardell knows that’s not the only metric by which players judge AI performance.

With Fallen Enchantress: Legendary Heroes, Wardell noticed he was seeing a lot of complaints about AI player despite the AI playing what he thought was a pretty strong game. What he realized was that, because the AI didn’t cheat and acted rationally based only on what it knew, players were reading far more mistakes into its behavior than it was actually making. It was a critical moment for his understanding about how players regard AI.

“It's having the AI communicate with the player more, having dialogues come up where the AI actually is explaining in a conversational way, ‘I see what you're doing there, and I'm going to go and do this,’” Wardell says. “By communicating more with the player, even if the AI is making a bad strategic decision, the player can at least understand why they're doing it.”

GC3_Production_Wheel.jpg


Boyer is a little more concerned that players themselves understand how to play GalCiv 3, and know what’s going on with their empire at all times. He says that GalCiv 2 tended to be a bit “slider happy”, and that one of Stardock’s chief priorities with the new edition was to get rid of them.

“For all those sliders, the player actually had remarkably little control over their empire,” Boyer says. “They ended up with a lot of waste. ...In GalCiv III, we switched that to having a dial. It looks like a color wheel. Essentially, what is your civilization focusing on between wealth, manufacturing, and research? It's like they're blended together. And that, in turn, tells your citizens what they should be working on.”

GalCiv 3 is Boyer’s first game as lead; prior to this he was an art director. Wardell calls the promotion karmic retribution for the complaints he used to lodge with designers on other projects. Boyer knows he has a lot of live up to, but has a great blueprint to work from in GalCiv 2.

“We started with a solid base and because it's Brad’s baby, we have the time to make sure it's great. It's kind of our flagship game. We can't be bad. We’re spending all of these time just making sure every little thing is fun. “Boyer pauses, then adds, “Ironically, it's not very fun doing that.”

Still no word on how they are going to revamp the politics system which was nothing more than pick party at beginning, get bonuses, if other party wins elections take penalties.
 

sovijus

Educated
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
78
“Up until [The Twilight of Arnor expansion for GalCiv 2], the Yor farmed. The Yor robots had farms, right? Like, what the hell? Why do the Yor have farms? Oh, because there's only one tech tree, so what are we going to do?” Wardell says.

While they eventually stamped that out with Twilight of Arnor, GalCiv 3 is beginning with custom tech trees for every race. That should give each civilization a distinctive style that underscores their fictional identity.
But Twilight of Arnor actually broke the AI, they mixed up tech paths, added a bunch of new techs to every race and tried to make them wildly different. The Yor are perfect example of how the AI was screwed by this. So if they are making custom tech trees for every race I hope they are going to make competent AIs to go along with them.
 

Ashery

Prophet
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
1,337
Boyer is a little more concerned that players themselves understand how to play GalCiv 3, and know what’s going on with their empire at all times. He says that GalCiv 2 tended to be a bit “slider happy”, and that one of Stardock’s chief priorities with the new edition was to get rid of them.

“For all those sliders, the player actually had remarkably little control over their empire,” Boyer says. “They ended up with a lot of waste. ...In GalCiv III, we switched that to having a dial. It looks like a color wheel. Essentially, what is your civilization focusing on between wealth, manufacturing, and research? It's like they're blended together. And that, in turn, tells your citizens what they should be working on.”

So, they're saying people complained about two independent variables represented as lines dictating economic development, and they decide to replace it with a fucking plane?! Do they not fucking realize that, outside of aesthetics, they're mechanically fucking identical!?!

Not quite sure how I feel about unique tech trees considering that one of the pleasures of 4x's is designing your own race/mixing and matching from other races. Like something built on SEIV's technique, for instance (Racial trait points at the start of a game; you can increase stuff like mining efficiency (First %s cost 25 each), ship attack (First %s cost 50 each) or access to the temporal technology branch (2000). You could easily extend this to, say, requiring the player to pick a type of culture and that selection dictates another branch of the tree.

Not quite sure how well doubling up on tech tree restrictions is going to work, though. You're restricting the tree based on racial choice and then further restricting it by not allowing the player to research everything in their chosen tree. It might work, but I'm weary.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
6,657
Location
Rape
So all they show is ships moving around a grid and nothing about research, diplomacy, colony management etc.

As far as gameplay videos go, this is a pretty shitty one. Already noticing a stardockian vibe, aka no content.
 

Branm

Learned
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
472
Location
Ottawa
Yeah pretty weak video...would of expected more considered they are releasing the early access Alpha tomorrow...
 

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
All global strategies' worth is determind by how effectively they handle excessive micromanagement of growing empires.
By some cruel irony, not a single one of them managed to surpass Alpha Centauri governor system and MoO2 autobuild and super-intuitive and handy "Colonies" menu.
In fact, should MoO2 feature autoadding of Trade Goods or Housing in case of no human player orders it'll beat all the shit that game industry vomited in the past decade.
Edit: Besides, GalCiv2 have been ruined by that awful rock-paperscissors system of weapon and armor. Plus absolutely useless sconstructor and ship fighting system.
 

Renegen

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
4,064
5 minutes in I wanted to punch the guy through my monitor for being annoying. Also he never played a GalCiv game previously. The only thing that I cared about, the stupid rock-paper-scissors weapons system, is back, game will suck move along.
 

non

Infra Arcana
Developer
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
286
HelloThereEverybodyMyNameIsMASVRLFirstOfAllWelcomeToGalacticCvlzchnsThreeTheNextEngineTheGalacticCvlzchnsFranchize

:what:
 
Last edited:

Space Satan

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
May 13, 2013
Messages
6,421
Location
Space Hell
5 minutes in I wanted to punch the guy through my monitor for being annoying. Also he never played a GalCiv game previously. The only thing that I cared about, the stupid rock-paper-scissors weapons system, is back, game will suck move along.
They said they will make lasers and weapon different with different accuracy, projectile speed etc. But IMO it's a bullshit. We'll see another Torpedo II and all the way till Torpedo XXXXXXXXVII. And 99% of battles will be won by refitting your fleet to appropriate weaponly and armor.
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068


Galactic Civilizations III Alpha available March 27 on Steam

Stardock's Adam Biessener plays and narrates a game of the Galactic Civilizations III alpha, cut together and edited for length and drama.

www.galciv3.com

Whisky

Plays the game......
Bunch of ships go around and apparently do nothing..
Playing the game
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom