For those who played Fallout 2 before playing Fallout

[Gragt]

First of all, it always is a matter of taste.

If you talk of preference, yes, it is different for everyone. But the level of quality is immanent to the game, beyond anyone's recognition, or lack of it.

On that Fallout 1 timer thing:

It's still generous enough to let you explore at your leisure, it confronts you to the choice of looking for the chip, with some other activities on the side, including exploration, or just forget it, smell the flowers, and then wonder why the hell you lost. Make your choice and deal with the consequences. It isn't clear at first play but after a few hours you can see that it gives you a rather large margin to do some mistakes and you really need to be wandering the wastelands indefinitely for some encounters — and how is that helping your Vault? — or deliberately want to reach the end of the timer. Plus you can pay the Water Merchants to get 100 more days, for a total of 250 days —that's huge — with no bad consequence; I find this is a shame that they removed the second time limit, because doing so removed 90 days of the limit if it was at 100 days or more, and it confronted you to your lack of foresight.

Hell, I'd love to see a game where I just can't do everything because of time constraints, I can see all that needs to be done but it's made clear that I'll only be able to complete part of the list because of time constraints, though I might be able to do a couple more tasks than planned if I'm really efficient in managing my time. A good CRPG will already limit your choices — and freedom — depending on your class or character build, and a well designed timer could also enhance it.

 

[MetalCraze]

Considering that midway through the game time limit disappears as it becomes no longer relevant.
I remember when I was done with the water chip quest I had like 40-50 days left - and that without having to rely on water merchants.

If Fallout's timer is too frustrating for you try playing games like Total Eclipse where you have only a few hours to complete the game successfully and have absolutely no idea what to do - it even doesn't have ever helpful NPCs telling you how you can win. In fact it even has two time limiters.

 

[HanoverF]

This poll clearly demonstrates the

 

[FeelTheRads]

Even if you make a mistake and send water to your vault, thus reducing the time limit, even then you can complete the game without rushing through it.

Huh, it might have been long since I've last played it, but doesn't that actually increase the time limit?

 

[Marquess Cornwallis]

Even if you make a mistake and send water to your vault, thus reducing the time limit, even then you can complete the game without rushing through it.

Huh, it might have been long since I've last played it, but doesn't that actually increase the time limit?

It gives you more time to find the water chip and less time to deal with the mutants.

 

[Gragt]

It increases the water chip quest time limit but originaly also decreased the second time limit, that also started from day 1, that determined when the supermutants would invade Vault 13, because revealing the location of your vault to the merchants means that they leak the info to the supermutants when their caravan gets attacked.

But since the patch removed the second time limit, the only consequence of sending the merchants to the Vault is to give you 100 more days to find the chip, though the Overseer will still voice his worry over the fact that outsiders know the Vault location.

 

[Dark Matter]

Hitler (supposedly) wanted his master race to rule the world

Just like The Master.

... well, for the heck of it

No, it was for the same reasons as The Master. He thought that they were the "perfect" race.

And again, when he finds out about that he realizes his mistake and gives up.

If someone tried to convince Hitler that his actions were wrong, maybe he would've done the same too.

 

[Secretninja]

If someone tried to convince Hitler that his actions were wrong, maybe he would've done the same too.

 

[Dark Matter]

You're trying too hard.

Yep. Low standards will usually pick quantity over quality.

The truth is that Fallout 2 content is NOT good. It's lulzy. There is a shitload of filler quests and filler combat. If you throw out the stupid shit, the game will be the size and the quality of Fallout 1. So since Fallout 2 = Fallout 1 + stupid shit + lulz, whether or not you prefer FO2 to FO1 is a question of your tolerance toward stupidity.

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

 

[Darth Roxor]

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

It's not like yours are any better either.

 

[Dark Matter]

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

It's not like yours are any better either.

The only significant argument I made was in regards to the contrast between the "save the vault" quest in Fallout vs. the "save the village" quests in FO2. That no one has refuted yet. Instead, they went back to bitching about the same thing they always do.

"but fallout 2 has tribals and talking deathclaws lol derp derp"

1eyedking made excellent arguments in regards to everything else, and they haven't been refuted either. Now, the likes of VD have given on making anything resembling an argument and have resorted to spouting meaningless shit like "the TRUTH is that FO1 has better quality than FO2. RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH".

 

[MetalCraze]

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

What else did you expect in response to a Fallout 1 being a theme-park with your "checks" like those areas were some token crap?

What I actually like about F1 is that f.e. so called "town built out of junk" fits perfectly - simply because throughout the game you can see that people build their homes from whatever they can as there is no alternative which is logical.

Fallout 2 with its flashing-lights-electricity-casinos-cartoon-mafia is sooo comparable.

 

[Vault Dweller]

You're trying too hard.

Yep. Low standards will usually pick quantity over quality.

The truth is that Fallout 2 content is NOT good. It's lulzy. There is a shitload of filler quests and filler combat. If you throw out the stupid shit, the game will be the size and the quality of Fallout 1. So since Fallout 2 = Fallout 1 + stupid shit + lulz, whether or not you prefer FO2 to FO1 is a question of your tolerance toward stupidity.

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

The arguments were given, but since you prefer to ignore them and instead call people fangirls and pretentious fags, and post lines like "Only pretentious dickwads who think FO1 is somehow deep/intellectual would claim otherwise", the choice is either to stoop to your level and start throwing feces at you or ignore your posts.

 

[Dark Matter]

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

What else did you expect in response to a Fallout 1 being a theme-park with your "checks" like those areas were some token crap?

The fact remains that most areas in Fallout 1 had one defining characteristic, a few of which were 'token crap' like the Hub and the raider town.

The areas in Fallout 2 had a lot more going on in them, in terms of different political conflicts. In Fallout 1, the conflicts within towns never went beyond "there's a good sheriff and a corrupt crime boss. the chosen one must choose!"

 

[FeelTheRads]

It appears that the Fallout 1 fangirls have run out of arguments.

OLOLOLOL.

That's the only kind of argument you seem to be able to understand.

"the TRUTH is that FO1 has better quality than FO2. RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH".

Like you did with "FO2 IZ BETER CUZ I SAIZ SO!!!!"?

 

[FeelTheRads]

It gives you more time to find the water chip and less time to deal with the mutants.

Yes, but with the patch the second time limit was removed so you can easily increase the first one by sending the water with no worries, if 150 days is not enough for you.

 

[Imbecile]

This poll clearly demonstrates the

I dunno. I think it also shows that people tend to prefer games they play earlier in their gaming lives to games they play later. This is the key to understanding the Codex.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

This is the key to understanding the Codex.

really? see...personally i've found that having a boner while reading here helps the most.


*throbs furiously*

 

[Spectacle]

As far as I'm concerned, they only ever made one Fallout game. There are no sequels, and no spinoffs.

 

[pipka]

I liked Fallout 2 for what it was: a game about roaming land full of wastes and fighting American government.
But overabundance of easter eggs makes gameplay a gimmick hunting.
In the context of Fallout 1, Fallout 2 is just ...silly...
this poll is stupid, there is no reason to play F2 before F1,

 

[Vault Dweller]

I guess this must be the infamous post that impressed young Dark Matter so much. Let's see:

See, when you put aside all the mandatory crpg elements expected to be there like the C&C, non-linearity, meaningful choices, decent combat and some rich quality of writing...... it all boils down to taste.

There must be a monocle factory somewhere nearby...

It's a great counter-argument, but let's ignore it and dig deeper.

It all boils down to how much lameness you can endure/ignore to enjoy something in its entirety. When the game breaks that threshold of tolerance, it cripples your enjoyment in a way you just can't appreciate the whole atmosphere, it just doesn't get to you.

I quoted this because there is that arftul element of randomness presented with a meaningful background like stuff happening in a plane of existence where mortal belief shapes the very fabric of reality... There is also the randomness for the sake of randomness, the infamous "lol so randum!!1! >__ ^", presented with no meaningful background serving as nothing but lame, disjointed, out-of-place lulz elements intruding an irrelevant setting in a "lookatme I'm lulzy!" fashion.

Out-of-place, huh? So I guess the slavers in The Den doing slave runs and beating the shit out of tribals and selling them to VC does nothing for coherence, eh?

Did he say "nothing, absolutely nothing in the Fallout 2 world makes sense!"? No, he didn't. Then a few non-retarded examples serve no purpose, do they?

Do you deny that there is a lot of stupid shit in Fallout 2? Yes or no, please. If yes, examples will be provided. If no, what's your point?

How much better, actually? Fallout 2 politics, economics and intrigue are done well and provide a rich enough background to the quests you undertake which further overarchs the game's main message (which people such as VD seem to have missed): humanity is shit and is bound to repeat its same mistakes, be it worshiping computers as Emperors, committing genocide, being racist, building organized crime, practicing slavery, cult religions, etc. All of these were issues the first one didn't raise, so you see, FO2 builds upon FO1.

These issues don't belong in the world Fallout 1 presented. That's the problem. New Reno is a good example. It's a superbly designed location with great role-playing opportunities, but ... it doesn't fit. Why? Keep reading.

And polarized evil antagonistic factions? Vault City wasn't evil, it just condoned slavery. Good? Bad? It's a fucking raider-filled wasteland, you be the judge; New Reno was as selfish as a drug-dealing scum-hive can be; Broken Hills had the whole Mutants vs. humans thing going which raised some interesting questions. Modoc was morally boring unless you take the whole same-sex marriage thing into account.

Your point? Did anyone say that Fallout 2 is a bad game?

The bleak post-apoc atmosphere of the original Fallout had the feeling just right with the stylized retro-sci / EC comics art direction in a way softening the blow, preventing the whole thing from becoming just another EXTREME in-your-face seriousbizness grimdark post-nucular gritporn setting. It sure had its own few obvious humor but it was mostly subtle, and knew its place. That crashed UFO was not that lame and you only got something like that once, whereas in FO2 much worse took over the entire atmosphere. You have that one nod to the extremely prevalent American bubble-headed grey "lil'green man" 50's retro sci-fi element that could be stumbled upon with a retardedly high luck stat. That one little thing that was in perfect agreement with the art direction disconnected from the rest of the game against an endless wave after wave of out-of context pop-cult crap. Scientologists, "republicans", bullshit tribals, skinny guinea gangster putz, FFFFFUUUUUUU, R00fles, Volourn, southernmost Baltic state persons available for contract hire, decline of the codex, forced humor, half-assed references............................................. :<

The bleak atmosphere is still there, or was The Den just a green circle on the world map? Gecko? Broken Hills? New Reno?

What people are trying to tell you is that Fallout 1 was consistent and serious, while Fallout 2 was inconsistent and lulzy. Nobody is saying that Fallout 2 sucked completely, so your examples with Den and Broken Hill prove nothing, while places like NCR, SF, the Vault City prove the inconsistency and the point you tried to dodge.

Your blind rage only demonstrates your brain doesn't quite grasp the concept of culture references (be them kung-fu movies, american literature, or historical figures), and further misses the point of the game I cited above.

An excellent argument. I see why you win this thread.

And what's with the idiotic VD-style "lolz-r00fles-FFUUU-EXTREME-butthurt" thing?

A mandatory "I hate VD" reference. +1 to argument.

Why would anyone want to invade a setting with an insane potential with all the BORING "real world" crap in a most stunted, forced manner like a dog shitting in the middle of the carpet kind of way? I get sick of that crap right here, I wanted you faggots to give me more stuff in the spirit of the awesome PIPE RIFLE instead of the DESERT EAGLE. I would have expected to see even more creativity from the far future setting of a world devastated by nuclear fire than the classical survivor/scavenger culture of the immediate post-apoc circumstances. They should have fucking bested the Fallout 1 in creativity with that potentially awesome premises yet all I got was this lousy, retarded theme park with aaallll ur favorite pop-cult refuhranceez...

First you ask for no "real world crap", and then you ask for more Desert Eagles?

Reading is teh hard?

You got the Bozar, you self-contradicting dumbass, as you did get the Magnum. And the Pancor Jackhammer. And the H&K Caws. And the FAL.

Awesome. You didn't read his post, assumed that he wants more Desert Eagle, called him a dumbass, and posted more "Desert Eagle" examples. Who is the dumbass?

And actually FO1 was the disconnected theme-park:

Rat cave. Check.
Quiet peaceful village town. Check
Raider town. Check
A town made of junk. Check.
Trader town. Check.
Zombie town. Check.
Gang warfare town. Check.
Military town. Check.
Religion town. Check.

How is that a theme park? That's the PA core right there: caves with animals, small peaceful places, raiders, towns made out of containers and old cars (makes a lot of sense, actually), a dead town with a handful of greatly mutated survivors (Necropolis), trading hub (what exactly is wrong with it), etc. Every location makes sense and fits. They are not connected, but they don't have to be.

The reason people called Fallout 2 and 3 a theme-park games is because locations don't fit the setting. Neither the Vault City, nor New Reno, nor San-Francisco, no the tribals, no many other locations fit the setting. Why? Because they are either too developed, too regressed, or revolve around concepts like organized crime that don't belong in PA.

I made my arguments here:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=125

2. Let's go briefly through your career-defining moments. Fallout 2, New Reno. It's a well done town, especially from a role-playing point of view. There is only one problem, it doesn't fit into the setting. Why did you decide to do it that way?

MCA: Why doesn't it fit with the setting? Maybe you're right.

VD: It's a gangster town. I feel that organized crime and "families" are too much for a post-apoc setting. Organized crime, in my opinion, requires a much more developed social infrastructure. In a less developed one, there is no reason for bandits and raiders to form anything higher than a gang.

MCA: Okay, well that's no fun. I completely disagree with that. I think if you have the organized structure for towns, cities, caravans, religious cults, water merchants, then you can either have some structure that equates to that or a predator that feeds on those structures (like Decker was in the Hub, and he was many, many years before New Reno). I was going off a one-page design outline for the area that Tim Cain had done, but I agreed with it, and I am sure Tim would still agree with it on principle, if not on execution.

VD: The reasons and needs for creation and development of organized settlements (towns) and religion are different than those for creation and development of organized crime. Without turning it into an essay, there is a good reason why the Sicilian Mafia, the first of the organized crime models, was developed only in 19th century due to industrialization & trade.

As for Decker, again, there is a difference between a criminal operating in a bar and mobsters running casinos and drug labs.

MCA: Secondly, I (and Tom French, now a rockstar at Pandemic) had a lot of fun working on New Reno. I think it presents a lot of fun role-playing opportunities and things to do, no matter what "type" of character you are, but does it fit in the setting? No, probably not. It's too sexually over the top, too much profanity, and the look and attitude of some of the characters is too modern-day to complement the feel of the Fallout world (the Mordino family, the fedora hats, the porn studio, the tommy guns, shivs). In that respect, I would consider it an immature design, and while I had fun with it, I don't think it was the best rendition of a section of the Fallout world. It also had horrible load times because I crammed too much stuff in there.
....

Any questions, one-eye? Is MCA stating the underlined parts enough for you? Let me do a quick summary in nice big letters for you:

Chris Avellone: Does New Reno fit in the setting? No, probably not. It's too sexually over the top, too much profanity, and the look and attitude of some of the characters is too modern-day to complement the feel of the Fallout world (the Mordino family, the fedora hats, the porn studio, the tommy guns, shivs). In that respect, I would consider it an immature design, and while I had fun with it, I don't think it was the best rendition of a section of the Fallout world.

I'll have to finish this masturbatory rant with my favorite mindfuck from Fallout 2, the "bullshit tribals"... Sweet crotch-grabbing Christ suffering on a diamond-studded pogo stick... This is like that thing I was talking about when saying: "retardedly caricaturized". I guess people could use the hunter-gatherer methods in order to survive and develop small, tightly-knit tribal relationships that would protect them in a harsh post-apoc world BUT(that's a big butt right there)------ would it really look like THAT? Did the people adopt some generic neolithic culture that is entirely irrelevant to the few generations before them because it would be liek... totally awesome and cool if they liek... dressed in these totally tribal looking indian leather straps, had these tribal tats and grampy bones liek pierced in their noses, spoke in a forced english accent containing all sorts of pseudo-spiritual mumbo-jumbo and gave their children names like Kaga, TORRR, Narogggg, Kaganargtorggggg because they decided to become effective hunter-gatherers they should adopt this caricaturized t-t-t-tribal fashion?????? Hey honey, we should totally name our boy Toragg cuz' you know what? It sounds totally TRIBAL that way. He would make for a better member of our forced hunter-gatherer society with a name like Toragg because that name is giving me some major tribal vibes here. WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF we enriched our new tribal lifestyle with the whole shebang. Let's show them how it's done, let's go tribal on their asses. Neolithic tribal style is cool but I'm thinking of a more Native American fashion with a Jamaican accent for our tribe, we would be cooler that way. WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF...

I won't even waste effort in answering such banal, diarrheic self-indulgence.

Yeah, let's ignore the very valid points about the tribals and call them "banal, diarrheic self-indulgence" instead. I can see now that you're a great master of arguments.

No wonder VD supports it.

Another mandatory VD reference.

 

[thesheeep]

Fallout 2 = Fallout 1 + stupid shit + lulz

Wow. Du you even have words describing Fallout 3 "content"?
Because, I somehow have a feeling you are exaggerating.

You pretentious fangirl, VD.

They surely are. Yes, you don't know how long things would take, so you start playing carefully and watch the clock. At some point you realize that you have plenty of times and relax.

And if you relax too long?
I mean, I get your point, but I still don't think that players should be punished in a "BAM! you lose! ha!" way for their long-term mistakes.
Any sort of punishment, yeah, sure, but not "Sorry, you just wasted days playing. Start again.". In a roguelike, this is okay, but not in a RPG like Fallout.

 

[1eyedking]

I guess this must be the infamous post that impressed young Dark Matter so much.

Epic butthurt detected*.

*: see what I did there?

It's a great counter-argument, but let's ignore it and dig deeper.
[...]
Did he say "nothing, absolutely nothing in the Fallout 2 world makes sense!"? No, he didn't. Then a few non-retarded examples serve no purpose, do they?
[...]
Do you deny that there is a lot of stupid shit in Fallout 2? Yes or no, please. If yes, examples will be provided. If no, what's your point?

In what context? This is a sci-fi game after all, done in a humorous way. You're still not getting the point.

I don't find talking deathclaws stupid, for instance, because they raised the interesting question as to whether such creatures would pose a threat to humanity or not. Even when isolating such questions, would they be considered stupid? Think about it. A modified FEV virus grants accelerated cranial growth that permits previously idiotic animals language development. It's as stupid as making intelligent humans stronger, greener and dumber.

These issues don't belong in the world Fallout 1 presented. That's the problem. New Reno is a good example. It's a superbly designed location with great role-playing opportunities, but ... it doesn't fit. Why? Keep reading.

Thank you for proving my point. Fallout 2 is the better role-playing game.

Your point? Did anyone say that Fallout 2 is a bad game?
[...]
What people are trying to tell you is that Fallout 1 was consistent and serious, while Fallout 2 was inconsistent and lulzy. Nobody is saying that Fallout 2 sucked completely, so your examples with Den and Broken Hill prove nothing, while places like NCR, SF, the Vault City prove the inconsistency and the point you tried to dodge.

Fallout 1 is more serious, yes, but Fallout 2 isn't inconsistent; it's just a burlesque take on the post-apocalyptic setting, tongue-in-cheek, humorous, comical.

Does seriousness equal superiority? Fuck no. And how are the NCR, SF and VC cities inconsistent? One's a blooming republic, another a token technological city, the other an incredibly cynical nod at the Garden of Eden Creation Kit still leaving room for slavery. Just because they're different doesn't mean they don't make sense. Take any real world cities as an example.

An excellent argument. I see why you win this thread.
[...]
Reading is teh hard?
[...]
Awesome. You didn't read his post, assumed that he wants more Desert Eagle, called him a dumbass, and posted more "Desert Eagle" examples. Who is the dumbass?

That's what the guy said. I either missed his complex sarcasm, or he didn't express himself correctly. Writing is teh hard.

How is that a theme park? That's the PA core right there: caves with animals, small peaceful places, raiders, towns made out of containers and old cars (makes a lot of sense, actually), a dead town with a handful of greatly mutated survivors (Necropolis), trading hub (what exactly is wrong with it), etc. Every location makes sense and fits. They are not connected, but they don't have to be.

I never said they didn't make sense. But they're theme parks, nonetheless, as much as FO2's towns are.

The reason people called Fallout 2 and 3 a theme-park games is because locations don't fit the setting. Neither the Vault City, nor New Reno, nor San-Francisco, no the tribals, no many other locations fit the setting. Why? Because they are either too developed, too regressed, or revolve around concepts like organized crime that don't belong in PA.

It's been 80 years in between both games. Isolated people either regress into barbarism or build upon their knowledge. Maybe the Wanderer believed peace could only be found by ignoring technology, which got humanity in the game's ragged state to begin with. It's also the point of the fucking game, goddamit, how many times do I have to repeat myself that it's about humanity repeating its same mistakes.

I made my arguments here:
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=12
[...]
2. Let's go briefly through your career-defining moments. Fallout 2, New Reno. It's a well done town, especially from a role-playing point of view. There is only one problem, it doesn't fit into the setting. Why did you decide to do it that way?

MCA: Why doesn't it fit with the setting? Maybe you're right.

VD: It's a gangster town. I feel that organized crime and "families" are too much for a post-apoc setting. Organized crime, in my opinion, requires a much more developed social infrastructure. In a less developed one, there is no reason for bandits and raiders to form anything higher than a gang.

MCA: Okay, well that's no fun. I completely disagree with that. I think if you have the organized structure for towns, cities, caravans, religious cults, water merchants, then you can either have some structure that equates to that or a predator that feeds on those structures (like Decker was in the Hub, and he was many, many years before New Reno). I was going off a one-page design outline for the area that Tim Cain had done, but I agreed with it, and I am sure Tim would still agree with it on principle, if not on execution.

VD: The reasons and needs for creation and development of organized settlements (towns) and religion are different than those for creation and development of organized crime. Without turning it into an essay, there is a good reason why the Sicilian Mafia, the first of the organized crime models, was developed only in 19th century due to industrialization & trade.

As for Decker, again, there is a difference between a criminal operating in a bar and mobsters running casinos and drug labs.

MCA: Secondly, I (and Tom French, now a rockstar at Pandemic) had a lot of fun working on New Reno. I think it presents a lot of fun role-playing opportunities and things to do, no matter what "type" of character you are, but does it fit in the setting? No, probably not. It's too sexually over the top, too much profanity, and the look and attitude of some of the characters is too modern-day to complement the feel of the Fallout world (the Mordino family, the fedora hats, the porn studio, the tommy guns, shivs). In that respect, I would consider it an immature design, and while I had fun with it, I don't think it was the best rendition of a section of the Fallout world. It also had horrible load times because I crammed too much stuff in there.
....

Yes, New Reno is visually a bit over-the-top, and immature at times of course, but it's also fun, very well designed, fits into the political scheme nicely, runs a drug business that is tied to one of the best quest-lines in an RPG, and further serves the message that all of humanity's vices would be reborn once again, whether it's porn, boxing, gambling, alcoholism, drug abuse, or plain old violence.

I don't care what a cornered Avellone has to say, he wasn't the only one making all of the design decisions: FO2 wouldn't have made the strong point it made without New Reno.

Yeah, let's ignore the very valid points about the tribals and call them "banal, diarrheic self-indulgence" instead. I can see now that you're a great master of arguments.

Valid points? The guy can't take some humor and breaks into a meme-puking rampage and I'm all of a sudden ignoring valid points?

A mandatory "I hate VD" reference. +1 to argument.
[...]
Another mandatory VD reference.

Yes, I actually enjoy referencing every now and then the clown crowd that inhabits the Codex, made of such fine individuals like as skyway, Andhaira, Volourn, Keldorn, and kingcomrade, among others.

 

[Phelot]

I played 2 first then the 1st which I know like more. I still love F2, but yeah on levels of maturity and sense, it is lacking. I did enjoy New Reno and all the rival families and the things you could do with them, but when I got to the oil rig, I just about had it. I mean, I get there to save my tribe and instead get Monika Lewinsky refs, like the whole setup is just a big joke and yeah I'd say the Master is a much better villain.

Up until the oil rig, I thought the Enclave was a decent enemy. The whole meeting of the "People in the wrong place at the wrong time" was certainly shocking the first time around as well as helping the Salvitore family meet with them.

As far as the tribes are concerned, I think it might have been a cool concept. The idea that mankind continues to slip into decline, getting more primitive rather then mimicking and trying to reestablish the civilization that existed before the war. But then you have Sulik, who for some reason has an African accent or something and it just doesn't look like the whole tribal thing was done correctly i.e. dumb tribals that don't know about technology despite living by Klamath.

Another point, I notice that when I play F2 I almost always solo it. None of the followers felt right to me (other then robodog since I love dogs) but in F1 I nearly never solo it. Ian and Tycho, as quiet as they may be, are still some of my favorite followers in any game. They just seem cool and believable. Nothing better then rolling into town with them and dogmeat.

 

[Jasede]

Fallout 2 = Fallout 1 + stupid shit + lulz

Wow. Du you even have words describing Fallout 3 "content"?

That's easy.

If
Fallout 2 = Fallout 1 + stupid shit + lulz
then
Fallout 3 = Fallout 2 - Fallout 1