Fighting Fantasy

[v1rus]

By compare 3 results, you mean Calculate your skill + your only roll vs goblin #1 skill + roll, then use your skill + your only roll vs goblin #2 skill + roll?

There is no addition or so on, you fight them separately, but with the same roll?

Yes. Except you can only deal damage to one target even if your roll beats both goblins. There is fate dice as well, but I think you understand that already.

Some books have more complicated rules like critical strikes and magic but I think WFM uses the most basic variant.

Ooooh, you can only deal dmg to one target? Explains why i stomped those 5 goblins.

Tyvm for the info bro, much appreciated, got it all now.

 

[True Ukrainian]

For anyone interested in FF, check out the FF project online. It's a repository of fan made books using the FF ruleset. Some are complete shit, but there are a number of professional quality works there, like the diamond key.

 

[BruceVC]

I never played FF books before. Played 1-4 Lone Wolf as a kid, and I must say, this seems even better.

I'm still at the start, i like how it feels and looks, but the beginning is quite linear, and seems to consist of "you walk through corridor, do you wanna open the door or continue?"

Okay, now I understand your experience with the fighting fantasy books

I loved Lone Wolf books, I played all of them and there is a PC version similar to the books

https://store.steampowered.com/app/279440/Joe_Devers_Lone_Wolf_HD_Remastered/

Just in summary about the FF books. I think most of the appeal is from people who have played the original books in our youth and they left an indelible impression, they were like a much simpler type of D&D and other tabletop games

But yes they all more or less the same, you have a main quest and then you make choices which creates a different path and ways to complete the final quest . And sometimes you need to find a specific item to progress and if you dont have that item then you can die and have to start again

The PC versions are better because you can restore and you dont have to restart from the beginning

In summary they about choices with combat, they interactive novels where you " choose your own adventure "

 

[True Ukrainian]

Not all the FF books are so formulaic. There are some incredibly weird ones like Black Ring Prophecy and Slaves of the Abyss.

 

[BruceVC]

Not all the FF books are so formulaic. There are some incredibly weird ones like Black Ring Prophecy and Slaves of the Abyss.

I dont remember anything about the narratives in either of those but I found them now and the covers reminded me of how I have played them, Especially Slaves of the Abyss

 

[Erebus]

Not all the FF books are so formulaic. There are some incredibly weird ones like Black Ring Prophecy and Slaves of the Abyss.

Along with Steve Jackson's Creature from Havoc, Paul Mason's four gamebooks are the most original in the entire FF series. I'm especially fond of The Crimson Tide, in which you play a peasant kid whose village has just been destroyed by bandits, his father killed and his mother kidnapped ; the story (set in pseudo-Asia) is spread over several years and can end in many different ways.

The main flaw of the Fighting Fantasy series is that its combat system is downright terrible. The fact that a successful hit almost always inflicts two points of damage makes fights very unexciting. And having Skill be equal to 1D6+6 makes things completely unbalanced : comparing a hero with a Skill of 12 to a hero with a Skill of 7 is like comparing Hercules to a one-legged toddler.

Many FF gamebooks also happen to be hideously difficult even with a Skill of 12. Reaching the end of Creature from Havoc, House of Hell, Crypt of the Sorcerer or The Black Vein Prophecy in less than ten tries is quite a feat !

Among the somewhat recent FF gamebooks, I'd recommend Howl of the Werewolf. In that one, you're not trying to save the world, just to destroy a powerful werewolf before you're turned into such a monster yourself. The setting and the encounters are very atmospheric (quite similar to what can be found in Ravenloft), the difficulty is reasonable and Skill is equal to 1D3+7, a great improvement compared to the usual rule. Though there are some hidden items to collect, they're merely helpful and you can succeed without them.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Ooh, Crimson Tide, one of the most obnoxiously difficult books to reach the true ending. I'm not a big fan of the meta puzzle used to gate the true end and it's rather short given how much c&c there is.

 

[AfterVirtue]

The main flaw of the Fighting Fantasy series is that its combat system is downright terrible. The fact that a successful hit almost always inflicts two points of damage makes fights very unexciting. And having Skill be equal to 1D6+6 makes things completely unbalanced : comparing a hero with a Skill of 12 to a hero with a Skill of 7 is like comparing Hercules to a one-legged toddler.

It's true but there is a single Sinbad gamebook, not Fighting Fantasy, in which you do as much damage as the difference between your result Skill+Dice and the enemy's. Perhaps is something that can be applied to Fighting Fantasy as well.

In the second edition of Advanced Fighting Fantasy, the rpg, "The winner of the combat round rolls one 6-sided dieand looks at the appropriate weapon chart [...] The result from that chart is the amount of STAMINA damage inflicted on the opponent". The characteristics starts with SKILL 4 STAMINA 8 LUCK 8 MAGIC 0 with 8 points to add, maximum 3 in SKILL, 4 in STAMINA, 3 in LUCK, 7 in MAGIC. Naturally, it is made with development through sessions and multiple adventures, with gained Expeience to spend, so like this is not good for the Gamebooks, still one can take inspiration.

Anyway, the atmosphere is the strong suit of these books. And a strong suit it really is.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Naturally, it is made with development through sessions, so like this is not good for the Gamebook, still one can take inspiration.

Way of the tiger uses a similar system, you roll 1d6 or 1d6 + 2 for damage. You don't roll for combat skill at character creation, the book uses a modifier system where you add bonuses or maluses to your rolls as the adventure continues.

 

[AfterVirtue]

Way of the tiger uses a similar system, you roll 1d6 or 1d6 + 2 for damage. You don't roll for combat skill at character creation, the book uses a modifier system where you add bonuses or maluses to your rolls as the adventure continues.

Sure, but i was suggesting a modification to the rules, Way of the Tiger has multi-chapter fights based on the move you select, this is when the modifiers appear, you can't do that in Fighting Fantasy without rewriting the gamebooks (apart for the 1dx thing for the damage, of course), as someone did with some of Lone Wolf's "boss fight" on Project Aon https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...IQFnoECAkQAg&usg=AOvVaw36Vdofdvt4lBq6pRlW0OhB.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Sure, but i was suggesting a modification to the rules,

Some FF project books gets round this by setting combat skill for the player rather than you rolling for it.

 

[Erebus]

My favorite combat system in a gamebook series is the one used in "Cretan Chronicles". It's not realistic in all ways (you return to full health after winning a fight), but it's very fast and tense. Take two hits : you're seriously wounded and only use one dice for your attack rolls. Take three hits and you're dead (unless the gods save you, which won't happen too often).

There's also an enjoyable tactical element. Throughout the series, you earn Honor points by defeating enemies, being honorable, stuff like that. During a fight, you can spend some of your Honor to add some points to your attack rolls. Spending honor points often makes the difference between victory and defeat, but if you spend too many, you're likely to regret it later.

 

[v1rus]

Not all the FF books are so formulaic. There are some incredibly weird ones like Black Ring Prophecy and Slaves of the Abyss.

Which one exactly is Black Ring Prophecy? Tried looking into it, but cant find single one named like that.

 

[AfterVirtue]

Perhaps he means Fighting Fantasy 42 - Blackvein Prophecy

 

[v1rus]

After Fighting Fantasy, started exploring a tad bit more. Found couple more curious stuff. Anyone played any of these?

Theres Fabled Lands, supposedly an open world gamebook. Then VolcanoVerse, by the same author. And some very weird and curious stuff called Expeditionary Company.

Anyone played any?

 

[True Ukrainian]

I've played Fabled Lands. Many people love it but it really isn't as good as its reputation. The books can be incredibly unfair and love using instant death or forced restarts to punish failed rolls.

I recommend Way of the tiger if you're looking for a multi book epic adventure.

 

[v1rus]

I've played Fabled Lands. Many people love it but it really isn't as good as its reputation. The books can be incredibly unfair and love using instant death or forced restarts to punish failed rolls.

I recommend Way of the tiger if you're looking for a multi book epic adventure.

Heard that that one is good too, but that first two books or so are where the good stuff is at, and that quality rapidly declines after that. Any truth in that?

 

[True Ukrainian]

Heard that that one is good too, but that first two books or so are where the good stuff is at, and that quality rapidly declines after that. Any truth in that?

Quality doesn't decline, the nature of the quest changes. The first two books are adventure themed, book 3 arguably as well.

Book 4 becomes kingdom management. Book 5 becomes diplomacy and war simulator.

Book 6 becomes a dungeon crawler and is obviously rushed and incomplete. Book 7 was released decades later to finish the saga and most people find it good.

 

[v1rus]

you got me very interested now, ty

 

[AfterVirtue]

Be aware that Way of the Tiger ends in a cliffhanger because the series was interrupted. There is a conclusion in the form of a fan gamebook that obtained the authors approval though, but it is in italian.

https://librogame.net/index.php/com.../1021-arriva-ninja-7-nuovo-libronostro-online

Ninja is the name of Way of the Tiger series in Italy.

Edit: ah yes, it is the same 7th book True Ukranian was talking about, Redentore!/Redeemer!, so they translated it after all.

Edit 2: Wait, i got it wrong, the fan thing is the translation in italian, so they completed it in the end.

 

[AfterVirtue]

You can also try Blood Sword (a dungeon crawler to play alone or with a party), the aforementioned Chretan Chronicles (very good series, if you don't mind the third book screw you tragic hero thing), Sagas of the Demonspawn (which is a mess to play but has an interesting setting), completing Lone Wolf and playing World of Lone Wolf - Greystar Saga - (great gamebooks and worlds); they also made, fans if i remember correctly, a Star Wars gamebook, with rules similar to Lone Wolf, unfortunately it is set in the non-existing Prequel era.

There is also a trilogy of Samurai gamebooks with interesting rules and setting, by Headline, Cambier and Verhoest, La Loi du Sabre - La Marque du Samourai. And many more.

 

[v1rus]

Ty for all the info! Gonna hoard that stuff and check it out sooner or later.

Lone Wolf was the only series I played tho, first five, or perhaps first 4, when I was a kid. Loved them, but hated the combat system.

 

[True Ukrainian]

Try Heart of Ice if you want something not fantasy. And Rebel Planet.

 

[Erebus]

Theres Fabled Lands, supposedly an open world gamebook. Then VolcanoVerse, by the same author.

Dave Morris is, as far as I'm concerned, the best gamebook author in existence (many of his books have been written with a co-author, but he's clearly always the better half of the team). Books 1-4 of the Blood Sword series and Necklace of Skulls are very good. Heart of Ice and Down Among the Dead Men are downright excellent. Can you Brexit without breaking Britain is highly original and surprisingly entertaining. And he's written several other enjoyable gamebooks.

I'm not a huge fan of open worlds even in video games. As a result, I'm not quite convinced by his two attempts to create open world gamebook series.

If you want to try one of them, then try VulcanVerse. Fabled Lands is unfinished and the atmosphere, characters and encounters are rather disappointing compared to what the author is capable of.

VulcanVerse consists of five gamebooks (two of which were written by a different author). It's probably the closest thing to an open world that will ever exist in gamebook form. More than 6000 sections, five different regions that offer considerable freedom of movement, dozens of recurring characters, plenty of quests (either mandatory or optional), etc.

It should be noted that playing just one of the VulcanVerse gamebooks probably isn't very satisfying. The books have been designed as a whole in order to force players to buy all of them and there are are plenty of ties between them. The last of the five gamebooks includes the epic conclusion where you finally face the main antagonist of the series.