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Community Fargo and Co to party like it's 1988 + New 30$ tier

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Why is it over the top? Because those of you who are too fucking stupid to understand Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general are bitching about shit which...well....isn't even shit. You're screaming at clouds. You're walking into walls. You're flailing arms to no great purpose.

Edit: I suppose you could criticize Brian Fargo for one thing though: Not explaining in excruciating detail "Crowdfunding 101" to brain-dead Codexian retards.
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
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Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You are pledging to support the creation of the game NOT the game itself! You are NOT an investor/pre-order customer but a donator to a cause or idea. Yes, it is nice that one of the "rewards" is the game itself BUT you are NOT pre-ordering the game. You are supporting these types of games being made and if you don't like the "rewards" for supporting the idea of the game wait until they sell it at retail. Then you show your support (or lack of) by how you spend your purchasing power. It's that simple.
 
Self-Ejected

Kosmonaut

Lost in Space
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CCCP
Why is it over the top? Because those of you who are too fucking stupid to understand Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general are bitching about shit which...well....isn't even shit. You're screaming at clouds. You're walking into walls. You're flailing arms to no great purpose.

Edit: I suppose you could criticize Brian Fargo for one thing though: Not explaining in excruciating detail "Crowdfunding 101" to brain-dead Codexian retards.
This retard sounds, or better yet reads more and more like hiver.

Calm the fuck down turdlicker. This whole "you can't criticize my gaem/idol/kickstarter" is getting ridiculous.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
This whole "you can't criticize my gaem/idol/kickstarter" is getting ridiculous.

Cute.

Well, yes. You can criticize whatever you like. And you can also be as oblivious and foolish as you like. And then you have opened the floodgates to be criticized yourself.
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068
Why is this guy asking even more money? Didn't he get enough already?
It is kinda lamish, he asked at first for 900 k i see no reason why shouldnt he be satisfied with what he got.
 

Temaperacl

Erudite
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
193
You are pledging to support the creation of the game NOT the game itself! You are NOT an investor/pre-order customer but a donator to a cause or idea. Yes, it is nice that one of the "rewards" is the game itself BUT you are NOT pre-ordering the game.
You know, that argument would carry much more weight if the rewards and tiers were announced after all the pledges were made. Given that they are known before the pledging, then there is certainly a subset of the backers who are investors - they put in $15 with the expectation of a gain on their investment (That is, they expect that the game will have a value of > $15). For higher level backers, it is harder to argue their status as rational investors as they start falling more into your "supporter of this type of game" category unless they are able to argue the value of all rewards for their tier relative to the backing amount. You don't get a say in the direction of the game for your investment, but that doesn't stop it from being an investment.


Also, given that the rewards were known before pledging the argument that these are not pre-orders is also absurd. You are putting money down before release (before production!) and will recieve a copy of the game. This has less certainty or guarantees than most standard pre-orders, but any tier which recieves a copy of the game is a pre-order, even if it gets other stuff along with the game(s). Pre-ordering might not be the primary purpose of the donation, but as long as you select a reward tier with a game, it still is one. Arguably, even from the production side, the whole point of much of KS is exactly the same as preorders - ensuring a minimum interest / run for the item.

You are supporting these types of games being made and if you don't like the "rewards" for supporting the idea of the game wait until they sell it at retail. Then you show your support (or lack of) by how you spend your purchasing power. It's that simple.
At this point, you could argue that the decision has been made so any more discussion of it is moot and that such discussion should cease once the decision was made.

However, this started with the thread where the developer was asking for feedback on this reward that was expected to potentially controversial. Identifying if there were enough objections to that was, as far as I could tell, exactly what was being asked.
 

Nattvardsvin

Learned
Joined
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501
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Norrland
Why is this guy asking even more money? Didn't he get enough already?
It is kinda lamish, he asked at first for 900 k i see no reason why shouldnt he be satisfied with what he got.

Of course they want as much money as possible to put into the project. More money = more possibilities of a better game.

They have 34 hours to go, obviously they aren't going to say "fuck it" and stop now.

Why is it over the top? Because those of you who are too fucking stupid to understand Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general are bitching about shit which...well....isn't even shit. You're screaming at clouds. You're walking into walls. You're flailing arms to no great purpose.

Edit: I suppose you could criticize Brian Fargo for one thing though: Not explaining in excruciating detail "Crowdfunding 101" to brain-dead Codexian retards.

There are several ways to fund a project. You're making it sound like the exclusive in-game content is somehow needed.
 

Emily

Arcane
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
3,068
Why is this guy asking even more money? Didn't he get enough already?
It is kinda lamish, he asked at first for 900 k i see no reason why shouldnt he be satisfied with what he got.

Of course they want as much money as possible to put into the project. More money = more possibilities of a better game.

They have 34 hours to go, obviously they aren't going to say "fuck it" and stop now.
Why is it over the top? Because those of you who are too fucking stupid to understand Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general are bitching about shit which...well....isn't even shit. You're screaming at clouds. You're walking into walls. You're flailing arms to no great purpose.

Edit: I suppose you could criticize Brian Fargo for one thing though: Not explaining in excruciating detail "Crowdfunding 101" to brain-dead Codexian retards.

There are several ways to fund a project. You're making it sound like the exclusive in-game content is somehow needed.
Why is he different then from any other greedy marketing publisher? Trying to talk to his fans like sheep and milk them as much as he can?
I was under the impresion this guy was an gentlman who wanted to make the game for caring fans. I guess i was wrong then eh.
This move is just showing great disrespect towards his fans at last rational ones.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Why is he different then from any other greedy marketing publisher? Trying to talk to his fans like sheep and milk them as much as he can?
I was under the impresion this guy was an gentlman who wanted to make the game for caring fans. I guess i was wrong then eh.
This move is just showing great disrespect towards his fans at last rational ones.

He's different because the money will go to the creation of the game.
Just the methods are the same and I don't like them, especially since it's obvious he could have funded the game without any exclusive in-game content bullshit.

And people who would have funded the game only if they got in-game content can go and fuck themselves. They're people who don't care about the game, they're just sad fucks who want to have something to brag about.
 

Temaperacl

Erudite
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
193
This move is just showing great disrespect towards his fans at last rational ones.
I don't think this is quite fair towards Brian Fargo - they did ask about this (even if it was on short notice). Presumably if enough people had voted no to the idea, they would have left that part out. The fact was that the vote indicated that many more people supported adding this in instead of opposed it. So while I disagree with it, I have trouble viewing it as "disrespecting the fans".
 

Dexter

Arcane
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
15,655
I'm sorry his effort to raise funds that he won't see a single cent of have hurt your feelings.
Kickstarter is all about feelings and good will though, I don't feel strong enough about this to cancel my pledge or anything and it wouldn't make much of a difference at this point anyway, but there are already some projects that were influenced by the "feelings" of some people e.g. the Starlight project that said he won't be doing Day-1 DLC anymore.
Also, it's not like I'm alone, 30% of the people voted No in your own Poll and there's quite a few "dissenting" comments: http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1580 , I guess it would just matter how strongly some of them "feel" towards any of this.
You are pledging to support the creation of the game NOT the game itself! You are NOT an investor/pre-order customer but a donator to a cause or idea. Yes, it is nice that one of the "rewards" is the game itself BUT you are NOT pre-ordering the game. You are supporting these types of games being made and if you don't like the "rewards" for supporting the idea of the game wait until they sell it at retail. Then you show your support (or lack of) by how you spend your purchasing power. It's that simple.
This puts people in the same dilemma they stand before buying games from huge Publishers nowadays.

Do I want to support this game, do I want to get it made and do I want to see more isometric/turn-based RPGs made? HELL YES I DO!!!

Do I want to support these kinds of business practices around "Exclusive" Content, "Pre-Order DLC", "Day-1 DLC", "Extra Ingame Missions" and all that jazz these different games seem to come up with because they are out of touch? Do I want Kickstarter to turn into that kind of environment where people are goaded into pledging certain amounts for games because of the "shiny exclusives" instead of the game idea(s) themselves? HELL NO I DON'T!!!

Balancing those against each other can pretty much make a decision if I buy something or not and in turn if I pledge something to a project I might like or not and what kind of amount. (And different people have different boundaries, for instance if it came with DRM there'd be a lot less people interested, others are really hot on Linux or Mac versions etc. and some people feel strongly about this issue) I just don't see why I have to be placed before that decision in the first place with a fan-funded project that was supposed to stay as far away as possible from the usual publisher model bullshit...

It makes it especially complicated if something like this is thrown into the heap long after some people have already put down their money like in the case of Shadowrun or now Wasteland 2 (and changed after the fact)...
 

Zed

Codex Staff
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Messages
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Codex USB, 2014
I think one reason why they're pushing it is because they want to beat Double Fine and become the #1 crowdfunded game. That will generate a lot of buzz.
Buzz in the games industry is good.
Although... not as useful when you've told publishers to fuck off.
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
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Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
It makes it especially complicated if something like this is thrown into the heap long after some people have already put down their money like in the case of Shadowrun or now Wasteland 2 (and changed after the fact)...

Then withdraw your pledge. It's that simple since no money is committed/ deducted by Amazon until the Kickstarter is over 34 hours from now so really nothing has been "changed after the fact."
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
There are several ways to fund a project. You're making it sound like the exclusive in-game content is somehow needed.

No. No I am not. I'm acting like:

A) It's not a big deal. It's completely superfluous.
B) It's how crowdfunding has and always will work. You don't have to like it, but if you want something otherwise unattainable...don't act surprised.
C) This isn't the same as asking for more money for superfluous shit that is going to arbitrarily line somebody's pocket. This is money which will only go toward a higher budget with the hopes of making the game better. You dumbfucks, this is something you should be pulling for.


And people who would have funded the game only if they got in-game content can go and fuck themselves. They're people who don't care about the game, they're just sad fucks who want to have something to brag about.

Point out one. I haven't seen a single example of this.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Point out one. I haven't seen a single example of this.

One what? One person who just cares about having something to brag about? How would you see them? It's not like they'd go out and say "I'm a sad fuck and I just bought this for the in-game exclusives".
But since apparently this is "how crowdfunding works", then it's obvious there are people who would only help fund if they got in-game exclusives. And it is my strong belief that anyone who does that doesn't really give a shit about the game. They just want to have a little bit more than the others so they can brag about it. For fuck's sake, this whole business model is based on this kind of people.
 

Nattvardsvin

Learned
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Nov 21, 2011
Messages
501
Location
Norrland
No. No I am not. I'm acting like:

A) It's not a big deal. It's completely superfluous.
B) It's how crowdfunding has and always will work. You don't have to like it, but if you want something otherwise unattainable...don't act surprised.
C) This isn't the same as asking for more money for superfluous shit that is going to arbitrarily line somebody's pocket. This is money which will only go toward a higher budget with the hopes of making the game better. You dumbfucks, this is something you should be pulling for.

It doesn't have to be a big deal. And in a way I agree that it's superfluous.
It's not how crowdfunding has always worked, and it's not how it has to work. It's one of many approaches. And in my opinion a questionable one.
Fuck no, this is the type of shit that needs to be avoided. Next you'll be telling me that I should be pulling for Shadowrun Returns bullshit exclusive in-game piece of shit content.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
All I'm seeing here is actions taken to bolster sales for the $30 tier, which has less sales than the 50 buck tier

looks like people either want digital and no frills or big money for boxed art + collectables all the way

the new stuff isn't necessarily directly meant for rewarding the special $30 people, they probably would have just placed it wherever they thought more sales were needed
 

fizzelopeguss

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
966
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Equality Street.
Pre-order dlc is bullshit, in whatever form.

It's sad that there's no escaping it, not even in fan funding. it's slip slided and tentacled its way into every orifice.
 

Volrath

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
4,299
ITT people lose their shit over some "exclusive" in game portraits. PORTRAITS for fucks sake.
 
Self-Ejected

Brayko

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
5,540
Location
United States of America
Pre-order dlc is bullshit, in whatever form.

It's sad that there's no escaping it, not even in fan funding. it's slip slided and tentacled its way into every orifice.

With Kickstarter, you're gonna have to accept some sort of middle ground. If you cannot into something that's not totally pure then Indie games are what you do. I think that aesthetic and cosmetic little additions for backers are a great alternative to balance breaking skills/gear/whatnot to people who pre-orded. Plus, as mentioned many times over, Kickstarter money goes directly into the funding of the GAME, it's not something designed to fatten pockets of yuppie asshole publishers. It's merely a small, much MUCH more refined way to say thanks for backing and funding this project, altogether knowing that more money = better game. In theory, anyway.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
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Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I am very angry at a company asking people to fund a TB Party game, angrier that people are giving more money than the game is worth voluntarily and livid with explosive rage than non-essential baubles are offered for those that donate more...
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Someone needs to make a Wasteland 2 version of the frogs in an icecube.

I still don't understand....a frog...an ice cube...a frog in an icecube...

WHY?
People still linking to pics on shitty image shack. And others (like me and obviously Jaesun) not bothering to take measures to make more than a frog in an icecube seeable...*shrug*

OT: I want to thank this thread. It has restored my equilibrium. Now there's not only people being ignorant and bitching about nonsense in SRR but also in W2. Thank you. Also: Codex gonna codex.
 

Burning Bridges

Enviado de meu SM-G3502T usando Tapatalk
Joined
Apr 21, 2006
Messages
27,571
Location
Tampon Bay
You know, that argument would carry much more weight if the rewards and tiers were announced after all the pledges were made. Given that they are known before the pledging, then there is certainly a subset of the backers who are investors - they put in $15 with the expectation of a gain on their investment (That is, they expect that the game will have a value of > $15). For higher level backers, it is harder to argue their status as rational investors as they start falling more into your "supporter of this type of game" category unless they are able to argue the value of all rewards for their tier relative to the backing amount. You don't get a say in the direction of the game for your investment, but that doesn't stop it from being an investment.

Also, given that the rewards were known before pledging the argument that these are not pre-orders is also absurd. You are putting money down before release (before production!) and will recieve a copy of the game. This has less certainty or guarantees than most standard pre-orders, but any tier which recieves a copy of the game is a pre-order, even if it gets other stuff along with the game(s). Pre-ordering might not be the primary purpose of the donation, but as long as you select a reward tier with a game, it still is one. Arguably, even from the production side, the whole point of much of KS is exactly the same as preorders - ensuring a minimum interest / run for the item.

At this point, you could argue that the decision has been made so any more discussion of it is moot and that such discussion should cease once the decision was made.

However, this started with the thread where the developer was asking for feedback on this reward that was expected to potentially controversial. Identifying if there were enough objections to that was, as far as I could tell, exactly what was being asked.

I think you are beginning to split hairs.

For me calling this pre-ordering, donation, or investment leads nowhere. I would rather say with kickstarter the backers pay for a job performance. That is, we backers give you 2.5 million $, and you make a new Wasteland game by Oct. 2013 (at the earliest). Kickstarter is like giving money to a painter for a portrait. Now matter how it turns out, you must pay for it. You can't get money back if he did not make the mistake of serious misconduct.
 

Zeronet

Learned
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
250
I swore i'd never register on the forums here...but..

Why is this guy asking even more money? Didn't he get enough already?
It is kinda lamish, he asked at first for 900 k i see no reason why shouldnt he be satisfied with what he got.

Of course they want as much money as possible to put into the project. More money = more possibilities of a better game.

They have 34 hours to go, obviously they aren't going to say "fuck it" and stop now.
Why is it over the top? Because those of you who are too fucking stupid to understand Kickstarter and crowdfunding in general are bitching about shit which...well....isn't even shit. You're screaming at clouds. You're walking into walls. You're flailing arms to no great purpose.

Edit: I suppose you could criticize Brian Fargo for one thing though: Not explaining in excruciating detail "Crowdfunding 101" to brain-dead Codexian retards.

There are several ways to fund a project. You're making it sound like the exclusive in-game content is somehow needed.
Why is he different then from any other greedy marketing publisher? Trying to talk to his fans like sheep and milk them as much as he can?
I was under the impresion this guy was an gentlman who wanted to make the game for caring fans. I guess i was wrong then eh.
This move is just showing great disrespect towards his fans at last rational ones.

I'm probably being trolled...but the obvious difference is publishers fund games in return for making large profits. InXile is a developer who wants to attract funds for development costs, the more money Wasteland 2 accures for it's development budget. Which let's InXile hire more developers to make a bigger, better game.

1 Million dollars was the price to make the bare minimum game. Seeing as we're likely looking at something like 3 million, the games going to have between 2x and 3x as much content depending how much is sunk on mod tools.

Anybody disturbed by the portraits, you should free feel to try and import one.
images
Here's a suggestion.
 

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