Fallout 2 - It's meant to be good?

[Phage]

I fucking love every thread that presents the possibility of shitting on Fallout 2 for being inferior to 1 in every way except for size and inventory management.

 

[Diablo]

Finally finished the Temple of Trial and Error. Good fucking riddance.... There was another one of those "game over" moments. Apparently you cant get anyone at the village angry or the shaman will send you a vision where they all die because i kicked someone in the balls. Wtf is it with this railroading?! What is this. somekinda story game? You know this would never happen in Arcanum...

But besides that i have some other issues. So i have collected a list of criticisms under the title


FALLOUT 2: BEYOND THE TEMPLE OF TRIALS


1. CHARACTER SYSTEM

First things first here are my stats

As you can see i want to be a knife thrower. But i cant. Or at least i cant be a knife thrower without at the same time being good at melee and unarmed because they are all tied to agility. This SUCKS. I dont want a guy whos good at those things... I want a knife thrower!

It says the formula for unarmed is 30%+ 2*str+ag and for throwing 0%+ 4*ag. If my calculations are correct with str: 3 and ag: 8 thats 22 for unarmed and 32 for throwing. But what does that percentage stand for? It gives me +30 points for no reason. Why???

Whatever it is its not good. Because all i ever wanted was to be a knife thrower and instead i go around kickboxing geckos. Thats lame.

I can be knife thrower in Arcanum but not in Fallout. Why???


2.RAILROADING CONTINUES

I didnt go to Klamath first. Instead i went southeast and stumbled upon The Den. There i met a BoS guy who apparently heard of me and my exploits in the waistland

even though ive been in the wasteland for exactly 3 minutes.


Now this is clearly somekinda script. I was supossed to go to Klamath FIRST and do some shit there so later when i get to the Den he says his thing. And i taught we left this story shit behind! So we get a script instead of a

2.1 REPUTATION SYSTEM ?

After leaving the Den i came across some caravans but the leader didnt want to talk to me because he too heard of me and my "good deeds"

even though since i got out ive done nothing but being an asshole and a petty thief.

Its true that i havent done anything really "bad" in the Den but damnit i havent done anything good either. So calling me a "do gooder" was uncalled for.

Again this is so half-assed. instead of making a proper reputation system its a bunch of cheap scripts!



It all reminds me of that time in Arcanum when Jayna Stiles refused to join my party because, as she said i was a "degenerate". So i set upon a quest across Arcanum to redeem myself by doing "good deeds"!

Spoiler

One good deed after another and my reputation with Jayna improved until one day she finally accepted my offer. The rest was history....


So you see! Actual good deeds with an actual response and an actual reputation system. Arcanum The Actual RPG!




3. SOME MECHANICS

I liked these mechanics in Arcanum.

First your ability to throw literally eveything from your inventory right down to individual coins. And if something was heavy enough it could actually be used as a weapon. For example

The Elven Funerary Stone weighs 1000 stones(i think). You could drop it a couple times on someones head and kill him. Then you could say something like "Rest... in peace." or "Amen." or something.


(What i would have liked is if with increased throwing you increased the damage from any object you throw. So in the hands of a skilled thrower anything is a potential weapon. In the end you would kill people by throwing thermometers at them like you were some anime character or Jet Li. That would have been cool. ) Maybe in Arcanum 2)


The second mechanic i liked is the NPCs ability to pick stuff up. This sounds trivial but when combined with the first mechanic for example:

If a guard is facing you directly so you cant sneak past him, just throw him something and he will pick it up. When he goes back to his post he will face the other direction!

Spoiler

he he he

And then there are hexed items which leads me to



4. BEFORE THE BATTLE

It has been said...

"The general who wins the battle makes many calculations in his temple before the battle is fought. The general who loses makes but few calculations beforehand. Therefore... Arcanum > Fallout."

-Sun Tzu, The Art of War
(I dont know about this. Maybe it depends on the situation? I dont know... But i agree with the last part.)

...and also

"In war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."
( What? Hakunin?... is that you Sorry about the balls! It was a lucky shot thats all! )


The point is.
In Fallout you cant really do a lot BEFORE a fight. In Arcanum you can(i know its not much but still):

-plant or drop beforementioned hexed items for the enemy therby weakening him
-destroy lightsources so the enemy cant see well
-set traps which leads me to


5.TRAPS

Traps suck! They dont do any damage(unlike in Arcanum) and i cant set them(unlike Arcanum). Also i cant make them( unlike Arcanum) but then again ic cant make anything since i dont have a crafting system(like Arcanum).





Phew!

Thats all for now. I have to go sleep.



Dislcaimer:
Some of this might be wromg. I have to play some more.

 

[T. Reich]

Here's the first video result from Google for "fallout 2 speed run".


The guy does a half-assed run through the temple. No dirty tricks, some time wasted on extra motions, and the combat speed is at default, low value (wow, those ants are SLOW!). It took him 2 mins.
Also, the whole "trial" is basically:
1. Kill/avoid a couple of ants at the entrance, run along a corridor, open the locked door
2. Run through some weak ass traps, kill a couple more ants, get an explosive in a conveniently located container and blow up the door that obviously needs to be blown up (OH, SCRATCH THAT, I'LL BLOW UP ANTS INSTEAD).
3. Kill a couple more ants, deal with the gate guard (fight, persuade, steal keys).

So, what's required of you? Deal with 6 oversized ants, use a pick locks skill, be curious and look inside a container, use explosives near a door, and finally - use the best set of skills your character has to deal with the guard (combat/stealing/speech).
You don't need to go to the side passages, you don't need to fight the radscorpions, you don't need to disarm the every single one of the damn traps. You might want to use the doctor and first aid skills on yourself, though.
That's it.
Seriously, if anyone complains about teh hardness of the damn temple, they need to get the 'dumbfuck' tag branded on their forehead, they deserve it.

 

[Owlish]

Fallout 1 is not the sum of its parts.
However, Fallout 2 is the sum of its parts.

 

[RK47]

2015: Temple of Trial is too hard. Fuck this thread.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Temple of Trials just feels stupid. What is this fucking catacomb doing here, exactly? If it's a temple why is there giant fauna living there, are they sacred?

I think the building (church?) was already there when they arrived, big hunk of stone would have survived the war mostly intact. They added a death course for the chosen one trials (there are two or three skeletons in the side rooms), and the scattered antidote bottles and healing powder bags suggest they attracted the insects inside for that purpose.

Not to mention arroyo people turning into complete tards in maybe 2 generations.

Apart from the whole hippie lifestyle business (started by the Vault Dweller since he was butthurt about technology after the events of FO1), they're mostly normal people. They don't even talk funny like Sulik. The village was prospering until the crops/cattle got Plot Disease'd. The "civilized" guys in other towns aren't doing much better anyway, Vault City and NCR are the only places that don't look like favelas.

 

[naossano]

Only two locations must be dealt in a very specific way. The one you are trying to save and the one you must destroy to achieve that.
Every other location is fair game.

About the BOS, no there isn't much to defend them in Fo2... They get a bit better by the end, but it isn't saying much...

 

[Eyestabber]

For me FO2 is a slogfest until you reach Vault City. VC is the first city to start featuring non-shitty guns and armor. From there the game takes a turn to become one of the best games I've ever played. However, I think "Dungeon-be-gone" improves BG2 a LOT and I think a "Start-at-the-Den" MOD would improve FO2 too. FO1 had a much more enjoyable early game. I've finished FO1 more times than I did FO2 simply because FO2's early game is SO FUCKING BORING.

 

[Nikaido]

they're mostly normal people

I didn't know normal people believed in chosen ones and held ceremonies like the "temple of trial". Or had village elders like these:

Two years later, she took her mystic test, a key ingredient of which is several pots worth of hallucinogenic plants from Hakunin's garden.

You know, normal people would be worried if they were led by drug addicts who believe in mysticism.

And if I had to suffer someone like Hakunin talking in my dreams in my travels, I would almost certainly commit suicide.

Fallout's 2 greatest quest line is joining with the slavers. There's nothing more satisfying than brutalizing the fucking tribals of the wastelands. An even better questline would've been one allowing complete genocide, including that of Arroyo.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

2015: Temple of Trial is too hard. Fuck this thread.

Too hard? Go back to playing Angry Birds.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

they're mostly normal people

I didn't know normal people believed in chosen ones and held ceremonies like the "temple of trial". Or had village elders like these:

Two years later, she took her mystic test, a key ingredient of which is several pots worth of hallucinogenic plants from Hakunin's garden.

You know, normal people would be worried if they were led by drug addicts who believe in mysticism.

No bro, that's rational people you talking about.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

They don't worship the chosen one. His job is to be the hero, in a less cynical version of "drawing the short straw". Normal people believe in much crazier stuff than "This guy proved he's the one that can save us because he's a badass like his ancestor" anyway. A sky wizard, for one. :tipsfedora:

The elder seems competent enough, I don't think a hippie community would care about her pot smoking habits.

As for Hakunin, the Master's abilities estabilished that psychic powers are a thing in this setting. Suck it down.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Somberlain]

The elder seems competent enough

No wonder since she is the daughter of the prestigious original Fallout hero Sadly, living in a world of shitty Elton John jokes, ghosts and Tom Cruise porn stars has taken its toll.

 

[Diablo]

Your character is p. bad for throwing, Strength increases Throwing Range, your 3 ST char will have to get closer to thrown. I recommend 4/5 ST. Also Sex Appeal is sorta useless, should've gotten Small Frame but eh. Don't worry if you don't wanna restart, tho - there is a perk that increases your throwing range, and more good stuff later on.

But if increase STR it increases unarmed and melee too... I still dont understand what are those percentages for?
30% for unarmed and 20% for melee which translates into aditional 30 and 20 points and fucks everything up...
The only way to decrease them is if i lower agility but then im totally fucked.

As it is, its more usefull for me to kick and punch than to throw and it kinda dilutes the role. I managed to level up so now throwing looks a bit more attractive as a choice. But the thing is i managed to lvl up mostly thanks to kicking and punching(i have nothing to throw). If i wasnt good at those i would be forced to maybe do some errands or some simmilar menial jobs that dont require combat, at least until i acquire my tools of the trade... This way it dilutes the role a bit.

 

[Diablo]

No wonder since she is the daughter of the prestigious original Fallout hero Sadly, living in a world of shitty Elton John jokes, ghosts and Tom Cruise porn stars has taken its toll.

If you mean the ghost in the Den as i understood it

Spoiler

that woman is wearing a stealth boy? When i clicked my character said
"Lady you need turn your stealth boy off." somehing like that. I think because i have high science?
Somberlain maybe you played a dumb character so you taught it was a real ghost

 

[Sranchammer]

I never finished it. Arcanum ruined RPGs for me.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I have nothing to throw

Shops in Klamath and the Den should have spears for sale.

Select a skill in the character sheet screen to see how your attributes influence it. The % is your proficiency and it factors into the formula.

 

[Somberlain]

No wonder since she is the daughter of the prestigious original Fallout hero Sadly, living in a world of shitty Elton John jokes, ghosts and Tom Cruise porn stars has taken its toll.

If you mean the ghost in the Den as i understood it

Spoiler

that woman is wearing a stealth boy? When i clicked my character said
"Lady you need turn your stealth boy off." somehing like that. I think because i have high science?
Somberlain maybe you played a dumb character so you taught it was a real ghost

I'm not quite sure if you're serious or some trolling alt, but whatever

The girl is an actual ghost, which becomes perfectly clear if you complete her quest. The "Better turn off your Stealth Boy" line you can say to her is just another example of the lame humor in Fallout 2.

 

[Diablo]

Umm im pretty sure its not a ghost man. My character also says "she cant hear" something like that. So i figured the girl is deaf an has a stealth boy on so she goes around like that. So im pretty sure its not a real fucking ghost. But belive what you want man.

EDIT

You know what. Its pretty far but im going back to the Den and im gonna prove it that its not a fucking ghost.

 

[Somberlain]

All right, now I'm sure

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Somberlain]

Also, the ghost disappears and is "freed" when you give her her stolen locket back and you get experience when you properly bury her remains.

 

[Diablo]

I know that increasing stats increases skills i just dont know what the percentages are for. I guess you could say it makes sense that you know how to fight since you come from a tribe. But still i prefer Arcanums system.

This way its like they tried to "help" you a bit in early game... You know

Spoiler

Which is a shame because the game doesnt need it really. It has other mechanics to support a nonfighter like fetch quests for example. Sure its degrading but thats kinda the point. Im not skilled at fighting or talking so... What im gonna do?

(Also im not skilled in stealing(i have 14%) but for some reason i constantly manage to pull it off. Maybe it depends on the weight of the item like in Arcanum? Maybe im just a natural talent?)

I agree about the mood though. It does make for a more up close and personal world.


I have the unofficial patch, thats Killaps. Also i have the Restoration project. I read that it has some questionable content but considering that vanilla game has ghosts it should fit right in....
Yeah itsa ghost. And i taught it was some sprawling government/military conspiracy like that quest in Arcanum... But no its actually a ghost. Pretty lame.

 

[pippin]

I think the restoration patch brings back the EPA which is a cool site to explore and makes up for all the possible crappy content it might add.