Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[Matador]

Fighter is not a good class to multiclass from because it doesn't pass spells. At least it passes good HP, but being human not so much. A fighter is a good candidate to stay innocent.

Generally speaking you want to start with casters to pass their spells to advanced classes that can make use of them.

For example in Original I made a cleric and then changed it to brawler, and I had a killing machine with some backup healing or buffing in case my main cleric was neutralised.

A mage into a ninja or an alchemist into hunter are other good candidates.

Of course the most classic ones are mage-Samurai or cleric-Lord/Valk, because they get 9 casts on each spell instead or one. Alchemist into hunters also passes 9.

 

[razvedchiki]

Multiclassing an alchemist to a hunter wont gimp the most usefull aspect of the alchemist, crafting?

 

[Matador]

Multiclassing an alchemist to a hunter wont gimp the most usefull aspect of the alchemist, crafting?

Yes. But the spells are insane. They should have allowed another classes to have crafting, making less mandatory to have an Alchemist on the party.

I would also give identification to Bards in addition to the Bishops. I think these two are the main adjustments the game needs.

 

[Jason Liang]

Multiclassing an alchemist to a hunter wont gimp the most usefull aspect of the alchemist, crafting?

It's better to plan for more than 6 characters, including many "specialist" characters like an Alchemist and a Thief.

In this case, start with two Alchemists. One class change to Hunter and the other keep as Alchemist for crafting. Or you can raise a second Alchemist for crafting later, when your first alchemist has maxed out on spells and class changes to Hunter. You'll also need a Thief to unlock some doors but you don't need to level him up until much later. Just teleport back to the inn for him when you hit a locked door and teleport back to the door, unlock it, etc...

One of the better reasons to start a fighter is you'll get to his +Skills much earlier and that's helpful.

 

[aweigh]

Yes. But the spells are insane. They should have allowed another classes to have crafting, making less mandatory to have an Alchemist on the party.

I would also give identification to Bards in addition to the Bishops. I think these two are the main adjustments the game needs.

Fully agreed. I would have made crafting/enchanting a generic option available at the Inn to any party, and not tied it to a class. Identification to Bards is perfect.

 

[Haplo]

Multiclassing an alchemist to a hunter wont gimp the most usefull aspect of the alchemist, crafting?

It's better to plan for more than 6 characters, including many "specialist" characters like an Alchemist and a Thief.

In this case, start with two Alchemists. One class change to Hunter and the other keep as Alchemist for crafting. Or you can raise a second Alchemist for crafting later, when your first alchemist has maxed out on spells and class changes to Hunter. You'll also need a Thief to unlock some doors but you don't need to level him up until much later. Just teleport back to the inn for him when you hit a locked door and teleport back to the door, unlock it, etc...

One of the better reasons to start a fighter is you'll get to his +Skills much earlier and that's helpful.

You don't strictly need a Thief. Ninjas, hunters and bards can all perform that duty. Well, maybe not quite as good, particularly early on. But once you have some Luck & Agi, they work just fine.

 

[Haplo]

Maybe Lords do become awesome late game. Read: Halfway trough post-game.
Before that... they are simply slow, IMO.

Think a dwarven Valkyrie might be more optimal, but a human will work too.

so its better to start as fighter then multiclass him?

Like Matador wrote, a cleric would be a better start. Or even some other caster.

 

[razvedchiki]

So changed the party to this

- human valk
- dwarf lord or dwarf fighter
- dragon samurai
- were alcemist multiclass to hunter when alch gets 9 7 spells
- elf mage to alcemist prob at lvl 13
- halflng thief prob gonna multi him to ninja.( Havent decided if thief is worth it for the steal chance, read contrantictory stuff).

 

[Haplo]

IMO Steal is not worth it in Gothic (was good in Original). Just some junk that you mostly would find anyway.
On the other hand, the Ninja's 50% Ambush prevention is a lifesaver. Replica Ex Skill can be real good also.

 

[razvedchiki]

Ninjas ambush prevention works whne he is at the backrow?
Also can ninjas open locked doors?

 

[Haplo]

Yes to both.

Note he may fail quite a bit early on, when his stats and level are still low. But after his stats come close to max and with some levels under his belt, my experience was that a ninja did just fine as a trap disarmer/secret detector.

 

[Matador]

So changed the party to this

- human valk
- dwarf lord or dwarf fighter
- dragon samurai
- were alcemist multiclass to hunter when alch gets 9 7 spells
- elf mage to alcemist prob at lvl 13
- halflng thief prob gonna multi him to ninja.( Havent decided if thief is worth it for the steal chance, read contrantictory stuff).

I also changed my thief to ninja, I manage the traps fine with her since then. Ninja is very powerful and fun with the beheading instant deaths. Change the thief into Ninja if you want one as soon as you meet the conditions to multiclass, because they level up very slowly.

"CLINC!"

I wouldn't forget dragons as race. They have high HP,no problem with age, and the very useful breath skill to clear rows without using MP. I used one as a mage->samurai because low int doesn't make them great main casters, but the high HP make them good at the start, now in Ibag Tower he is on the front row. I'm not into super min maxing several schools into every character, but I think in Elminage Gothic you want spells in at least 4 characters on the party with at least 2 healers and one alchemist.

My postgame party currently in final mega-dungeon is (I played with it all the game):

- Human Thief->Ninja
- Dragon Mage->samurai
- Werebeast Brawler
- Human Lord
- Elf Cleric->Bishop
- Human Alchemist

 

[Haplo]

I agree, the Dragonewts are great. The Breath is good, particularly on a class with a low offensive potential (and little reliance on mental stats), like a Summoner or Alchemist.
But also their Strenght potential is phenomenal - they can deal A LOT more weapon damage then other races.

Plus, yeah, you never need to worry about their age.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

So, its generally better to make a new party with fast leveling characters, than multiclass them to other classes or even create new characters and fast level them with powerful equipment?

 

[Haplo]

Depends on what you like.

I've found great enjoyment in recruiting 4 monster adventurers into my party via Blood Pact. They can have uber stats, far surpassing mere mortals, but cannot be multiclassed - or they loose their special abilities.

I did heavily multiclass my caster(s), while my Valkyrie remained Innocent.
Pure Alchemist stayed at the tavern and only gained xp from loot-funded temple training.

 

[Matador]

So, its generally better to make a new party with fast leveling characters, than multiclass them to other classes or even create new characters and fast level them with powerful equipment?

It doesn't matter as much as in Wizardry 1 where the dungeon is short, and there is no so much loot or XP, so there is no so much point in farm the same enemies over and over when you can just beat the game after getting some good weapons and Tiltowaits.

In EG there are a lot of dungeons and loot so you can experiment more and the basic classes have good bonuses unlike Wiz1. Aweigh has talked in the past about the insane bonus physical damage the fighters get, the powerful bonus to Cleric spells, very effective against some of the more nasty enemies in postgame, Alchemist crafting, some Innocent gear,etc. Also high level is good in combat rolls.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Item progression (in original at least) is kinda bad. I am stuck at the situation where enemies barely give me xp, but the ones who give xp - will destroy me because I wasn't able to upgrade my equipment (only trash drops).
This shows how infinitely inferior this kind of simplistic dungeon crawling to something like wizardry or might&magic where you have fixed items in chests, dungeons, towns and etc. Here you must grind enemies who give you 1 xp for hours hoping that among the trash they give you youll get an item you want.

 

[Haplo]

Well, in Original a 26+ level Thief could help with that.

In Gothic its more down to luck (and maybe grinding appropriate areas... though rarely worth it, unless you're hunting for a Muramasa or something maybe).

 

[razvedchiki]

I agree, the Dragonewts are great. The Breath is good, particularly on a class with a low offensive potential (and little reliance on mental stats), like a Summoner or Alchemist.
But also their Strenght potential is phenomenal - they can deal A LOT more weapon damage then other races.

Plus, yeah, you never need to worry about their age.

in my current party i rolled a 41 dragon samurai and plan to keep him, since i dont want to abuse the breath i will not role another dragon.
bu i agree using the breath instead of valubale spells in the backrow is excellent.
also what is the best equipment for a ninja to use if he is at the backrow? (prob he will switch sides with my front row valk after the ninja gains enough lvls).

 

[Haplo]

Dragons are not only amazing for their breath!

More importantly, their Str also rocks!
They make poor rogues and I guess also not great dedicated offensive or resurrecting casters. But they do excel at melee.

Samurai IS great. Another melee class that rocks, particularly in post-game, is the Brawler. He starts fragile, as he cannot equip any armor... but in late game/post game his level AC scaling ability far surpasses any armors the other classes can equip. Actually there are only 3 classes somewhat capable of tanking in post-game: Brawlers, Ninjas and Samurais - if they get lucky with their Swallow Return ripostes, that is...

As for back row, well, there are shuriken style thrown weapons for ninja. Pretty nifty.
Not sure if its worth moving the valkyrie to the back row. I've found the ability to target the ENEMY back row with her spears invaluable (pretty much one-shots most squishy priority targets).

 

[razvedchiki]

planned also an alcemist/hunter for killing the second row, but i agree its better to have 2 team members to snipe the enemy back row.
isnt though a better place for the ninja the first row, after he has lvled enough for that beahed chance?

 

[Haplo]

Stars can behead also....

This actually means their relatively smaller damage is less important, as you hope for a 1HKO.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

I found that its good idea to go into 2nd level of first dungeon after doing 1st level of 2nd and 3rd dungeon.

 

[Matador]

planned also an alcemist/hunter for killing the second row, but i agree its better to have 2 team members to snipe the enemy back row.
isnt though a better place for the ninja the first row, after he has lvled enough for that beahed chance?

I would keep the Ninja in the front row, he can hide and sometimes automatically starts the fight hidden. One Katana with AC ON and Shuriken type offhand. Clinc, Clinc Clinc,Clinc!

 

[razvedchiki]

another think is, do att roles matter at char creation? for example my lord has a 31 role which is the barely minimum for the stats and leaves him with 14 str.