Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[aweigh]

Better question would be:

which elemental attributes boost enterook mista dmg? (it's a trick question).

hmm, what about Elnam? that spell is holy element. Would raising holy element: Attack % modify its dmg output? ...wait, IS it really holy element? it is a direct-damage spell after all! Maybe it's dark element: Attack; that WOULD make said dark element: Attack % affecting the other Cleric spells which target enemies more oganic in terms of design, wouldn't it?

Bonus question: is the default dragonewt breath attack's dmg output modified by elemental attributes once you change its breath-element using the Bicorn Horn's sp invocation?

what if the item changes the breath element to something like Sleep? would that char's breath's % of landing said sleep ailment be modified by anything that raises such things?

does enchanting a high amount of confusion onto a melee weapon mean that it resolves per-hit versus the enemy's confusion resistance, OR does it resolve per-hit first versus the enemy's ALCHEMY spell-school resistance, and THEN resolve per-hit versus the enemy's confusion esistance?

...but, wait, DO enchanted weapons resolve ailment afflictions per-hit, or do they resolve per action (i.e. per character attack)?

Your homework Gunnar is to go and test out all that.

Bonus work: see if you can determine whether a party member's holy element defense % negatively affects the dice-roll that occurs when another party member casts a resurrection spel on him/her. The resurrection spell, like all healing spells, is holy element: Attack; does that mean the dead character's holy ement: defense % is included during the resolution of the dice rolls (math formula) that determines whether or not the char will turn to ash or not?

That should keep you busy for a bit.

 

[Sacred82]

Started over with slightly modified party. Question, is the shaman gear female exclusive as can be read around the net? Also, are there instruments with a solid damage output (almost on par with offensive spells)? And are instruments always single target?

 

[aweigh]

- In 'Gothic' you can play male Shamans without any worry. In E: Gothic, both male and female Shamans are rewarded for their hard work throughout the pre-game by getting access to two Shaman-specific weapons that are easily Top 5 in the entire game.

One of those is an S-ranged sword, and another one of the weapons is an L-ranged bow. Their A.C. will always be ass however, lacking access to "heavy" type of armor.

However... the "light" and "medium" type of armor available to Shamans, i.e. stuff that reads like robes, cloths, vests, sandals, shoes, wreaths, tiaras, hoods, kimono's, etc; the type of "light" armor items you find in the 3 post-game dungeons make up for their lack of A.C. by providing insanely good protection versus other stuff that isn't melee-damage.

("Top 5" out of 230-250 weapons!).

- Personal experience: Musical instruments are pretty useless past mid-game in 'Gothic', especially since they have a % to break. Can't remember the last time I even bothered using a musical instrument with a 'Gothic' party.

(That said, post-game contains 2 specific musical instruments that are god-tier in terms of what they do when used in combat. Won't spoil which 2 they are, but 1 of them needs to be Thief-stolen from one of the Floor Masters inside the Cave of the Ancients, and the 2nd one is a rare drop inside Ibag's Tower).

 

[Haplo]

Can anyone tell me what dark attack attribute is good for? I'm guessing the cleric spells that kill instantly?

Well, there's also the mage spell which mass kills instantly - Argeiss. Also it is not impossible to have a Dark element breath.

 

[aweigh]

It's possible to have any-element breath as there is an item in the game which changes a dragonewt's breath attack to a random element, or a random ailment.

...ever thought about a death-ailment (beheading breath) dragonewt ninja? i've never managed to have one, and I don't know if their class bonus to beheading would modify the death-breath either.

it's fun to think about, tho.

 

[Dorarnae]

- In 'Gothic' you can play male Shamans without any worry. In E: Gothic, both male and female Shamans are rewarded for their hard work throughout the pre-game by getting access to two Shaman-specific weapons that are easily Top 5 in the entire game.

One of those is an S-ranged sword, and another one of the weapons is an L-ranged bow. Their A.C. will always be ass however, lacking access to "heavy" type of armor.

However... the "light" and "medium" type of armor available to Shamans, i.e. stuff that reads like robes, cloths, vests, sandals, shoes, wreaths, tiaras, hoods, kimono's, etc; the type of "light" armor items you find in the 3 post-game dungeons make up for their lack of A.C. by providing insanely good protection versus other stuff that isn't melee-damage.

("Top 5" out of 230-250 weapons!).

- Personal experience: Musical instruments are pretty useless past mid-game in 'Gothic', especially since they have a % to break. Can't remember the last time I even bothered using a musical instrument with a 'Gothic' party.

(That said, post-game contains 2 specific musical instruments that are god-tier in terms of what they do when used in combat. Won't spoil which 2 they are, but 1 of them needs to be Thief-stolen from one of the Floor Masters inside the Cave of the Ancients, and the 2nd one is a rare drop inside Ibag's Tower).

you don't wear any armor with shaman, except maybe their special chest piece, you put seals in all their slot. in elminage 1-2-3, their seals are just against undead/demon and ghost but in gothic I think you can get some that can hurt anything, I should try that class someday with gothic.
was the same with the bard, could wear instrument in all their slot, I heard they special skill changed in gothic?
anyway here how it can look in elminage 3

 

[Serus]

I own Elminage Gothic on Steam and also - let's say less legally - i can run Gothic Original on psp emulator. Which of the two games would you recommend to play first ? I played Wiz 7 and 8 but not the older titles and none of the many japanese clones.

 

[Jasede]

While not impossible, Gothic is hard even for Wizardry veterans so try Original. If you find it too easy, try Gothic. If you find both too hard, try Stranger of Sword City.

 

[aweigh]

what dorarnae reocmmends is 1 way to play Shamans. Personally after doing the math I found that Shamans didn't gain that much from sacrificing AC for Charms (Seals) inside Ibag's Tower.

(Seals were nerfed in E: Gothic). A.C. was simply more important than having extra attacks.

 

[Gunnar]

That should keep you busy for a bit.

I'm addicted to this game now. Sure the first few dungeons were free but now I have to have more. Now you're introducing me to the hard stuff. You're a terrible person, look what you've done to me.

 

[Sacred82]

noob problems, I left my party in Tsun-Kurn (because why the fuck do I have to go back to town to quit?), but I don't remember where and they don't show up on the map (wtf?). How do I git gud?

BTW shamans are front row characters, right? Not much in the way of spears/ bows for them?

 

[CryptRat]

If I understand your question after loading your game then World Map -> Party Icon and then the party should be there.

 

[Sacred82]

Ah that fixed it, thx.

 

[aweigh]

i misunderstood the question and was just about to reply that there is a spell that gives coordinates to "waiting" out-of-party characters inside of a dungeon.

just like the wizardry spell kandir or kandor, can't remember the name.

 

[aweigh]

Sacred82

shamans can work from either row, ESPECIALLY in Gothic where their access to god-tier weaponry shines, and deliberately places them several rungs above the other "Intermediate" classes such as Bards and Servants.

traditionally, however, shamans need to decide between wearing armor or equipping seals (charms) onto their armor-slots which grant them extra attacks.

IMO the E: Gothic post-game dungeons are too hard-core to have your shaman forego Armor Class in favor of extra attacks, though, but that's up to you. One powerful strategy is the one Dorarnae mentions, which is:

- Equip the phattest weapon(s) on your Shaman, then fill out his remaining slots (head, torso, arms, legs, accessories 1 and 2) each with a Seal/charm which Double-damages an enemy type and enchanted with ailments.

It's absoluely viable, but I like leaving them with only 2, or even only 1 Seal/charm equipped, (for a total of 3 attacks if dual-wielding); then rest of slots w/ armor.

 

[Haplo]

To add to the discussion: not sure about Shaman spear access, but they certainly get access to some good bows.

 

[Sacred82]

I've come to appreciate the Shaman, and realize now that building the party around including a Bard fucked it up. Right now I can't see a scenario where including a Bard would be a good idea. In a magic heavy party he's either a liability in the front row or he takes up a valuable slot in the back row, and in physical combat parties a Ninja, Thief or Hunter is probably still better. Tarot isn't a saving grace as random as it is, because against weak enemies you don't need it, and against strong enemies it's a no-go because of negative draws, so I can only see myself using it in scenarios where you'd otherwise have to reload. Instruments being shit is like the final nail in the coffin.

 

[an Administrator]

Bards are much more useful in Wizardry titles.

 

[Haplo]

Or in Neverwinter Nights

 

[Sacred82]

BTW does anyone else feel like the Alchemist should be split up into two classes, one for forging (metal) weapons and armor, thereby increasing damage and AC, and one for infusing gear with resists etc.? Would have spiced things up a bit instead of every party including an Alchemist.

 

[Jasede]

Then every party would have two of those split classes!

 

[Sacred82]

I would feel tempted to duke it out with a Lord and Shaman as my magic defense at least once, so I have the back row open for mages.

 

[Haplo]

Well, for now I'm risking rolling without an Alchemist.
Still have a 29 level one benched at town for dis- and re-assembly. Not having a level 26+ one with disassembly would be a major pain when upgrading/changing equipment.

 

[Gunnar]

I'm stepping foot into the dreaded Ibags Tower for the first time. My party at this point:

Human Brawler (Innocent), L73, Deaths: 26 - Kills: 3324 / BRACE
Human Samurai (Innocent), L63, Deaths: 39 - Kills: 2296 / COUNTERATTACK
Dwarven Cleric-->Lord, L60, Deaths: 39 - Kills: 956 / HAND OF KINDNESS
Dragonewt Valkyrie (Innocent), L58, Deaths: 9 - Kills: 1505 / SONG OF HEALING
Devilish Hunter-->Ninja(with medal), L49, Deaths: 12 - Kills: 1595 / TREASURE CHEST
Dragonewt Alchemist --> Hunter, L59, Deaths: 5 - Kills: 191 / MAGIC ESSENCE

The Clerics offense power sucked until I turned him into a Lord, now he's doing huge damage so most of his kills are all due to the Lord. I should have class changed much earlier.

Dragonewt valkyrie has low piety and thus had cruddy healing for most of the game, but, as a secondary healer that didn't end up mattering much. I mainly relied on her for full heals, res and status cures. I bumped up her holy attack and now she has a great heal all.

Kinda unsure about what to do with the Ninja. I have him dual wielding ranged weapons from the back and stacking his beheading as high as possible.

The Alchemist--> Hunter was a new character I made when my original Alchemist reached mastery.

edit- First guy wiped out 4 party members in one round. Ahh, this is going to be great

 

[Haplo]

Good show.

Regarding low piety, that also affects your chances to resurrect fallen characters. Of course that's kinda moot if the Lord is down... either you succeed or don't.