Elite: Dangerous

[Ulminati]

Passenger liners + more imperial ships plz

 

[Whiran]

Will they? I don't know the numbers playing the beta. Presumably there's a fair amount. The servers went for a month without any restarts while they were still working on the game. I don't see why they'd suddenly need weekly restarts once the game goes live. The MMO betas I were in in the past had servers going down all willy-nilly, so I'm assuming server stability in beta is worse than it will normally be.

To be fair if this is truly a cloud-y app then it is running on virtual servers so that should almost never go down unless they are updating the code or if the code crashes. That being written both Amazon and Microsoft's "clouds" have been down in the past so, chances are, there will be some outage at some point.

 

[Nikaido]

This is a fairly big thing though.. Always online or not is most definitely a core feature of any game. There's a reason there's been so much discussion about it previously, like with the aforementioned Sim City. So at which point do you call it fraud or at least false advertisement? What if it had been the online portion that got scrapped because of whatever? Would the multiplayer crowd be any more forgiving?

Fact of the matter is that they received a lot of cash by saying, and later confirming and reconfirming, the part about the offline mode.

It's definitely fraud. They didn't just put that on their webpage once and call it a day. They hammered that promise on us time and time again until their recent retraction.

• ”Elite will also work offline but you just won’t get a lot of the features. The whole point is that the world evolves due to the aggregated actions of the players.” - David Braben
• "I’m always concerned with games that are server-based that you can’t then play them after the publisher or whoever turns the servers off. We’ll structure it in a way that you could play it entirely locally, so it would survive time if that makes sense.” - David Braben
  
  
• "We plan to fund the servers off (i) the updates and (ii) people who want to buy cash. I don't think it is a high risk - and in the worst case we will structure the game so that it can be run without the servers should we eventually have to shut them down." - David Braben
  
  
• "I hope you'll all give the connected game a try as it is the way we want people to experiece it, but you have the option if it's not your thing." - Michael
  
  
• "You can play offline without server connections and we will make sure you can play the game if we ever shut the servers down." - Michael via Kickstarter comment
  
  
• "Space is big Most of the galaxy is unexplored when the game begins and there are plenty of resources to be discovered.
  
  
• There will also be an offline single player mode." - Michael via reddit AMA

And considering how meh the multiplayer side of this game is (peer to peer connection between players) the fact that it is always on and might receive in game ads doesn't really help. This isn't one of these games that justify full on multiplayer. Not being able to play the game while traveling, suffering from instability, risking the single player experience whenever people start DDOSING for the lolz (which happens to all online games, you're completely retarded if you think there'll never be any outage), the inability to mod the game etc all of the negative points come for no valid reason because the multiplayer of this game is badly implemented and inconsequential. Anyone who has experienced P2P connections in games like Dork Souls knows what I'm talking about. PVP is going to be shit except once in a blue moon when you get paired with someone real close.

This game is dead to me.

 

[J_C]

And considering how meh the multiplayer side of this game is (peer to peer connection between players) the fact that it is always on and might receive in game ads doesn't really help. This isn't one of these games that justify full on multiplayer. Not being able to play the game while traveling, suffering from instability, risking the single player experience whenever people start DDOSING for the lolz (which happens to all online games, you're completely retarded if you think there'll never be any outage), the inability to mod the game etc all of the negative points come for no valid reason because the multiplayer of this game is badly implemented and inconsequential. Anyone who has experienced P2P connections in games like Dork Souls knows what I'm talking about. PVP is going to be shit except once in a blue moon when you get paired with someone real close.

This game is dead to me.

May I ask how much time have you put into the beta?

And seriously people, I hate to say this but get a fucking life. OMG, what will happen if the servers are down for a few hours a month, do you expect me to ...gasp....face reality? And what if there is a power outage in my city? What will I do with myself if I can't play mah precious vidyagame?

There are valid complaints about always online. The lack of modding, the future of the game if the servers are taken down, these are understandable. But the whining about the game being down for a few hours every 2-3 months is just ridiculous.

Maybe I've just grown up and don't give a damn, but i don't care about always online DRM anymore. I hated it in Simcity and Diablo 3, but the reason for that was that the games simply didn't work. I doubt it will be the case with Elite. If I'm wrong and the game won't be playable because the servers crash in the first days, I will come back and eat my words.

 

[Shadowfang]

 

[J_C]

I got it for my Double Fine fanboyism, it has nothing to do with Elite. Just sayin.

 

[Whiran]

And seriously people, I hate to say this but get a fucking life. OMG, what will happen if the servers are down for a few hours a month, do you expect me to ...gasp....face reality? And what if there is a power outage in my city? What will I do with myself if I can't play mah precious vidyagame?

I don't think it's that so much as the game was advertised as offline play capable and then that capability was pulled a few weeks before release. So for some people who were planning on playing the game offline for whatever reasons they had (bad internet connection, lack of internet connection, don't like online games, lack of bandwidth, no network access on gaming system.. whatever) bought into a claim that was wrong. Frontier maintained all along that offline mode was going to happen without hinting that it might not happen. That's the rub.

As written previously in this thread I believe Frontier is handing out refunds or, at least, looking at refund requests on a case by case basis. When I checked the mega-thread at Frontier no one had managed to get a refund and I haven't been back to check up on that situation.

If you find yourself in the situation whereby you were planning on playing offline mode then request a refund. If you haven't bought the game yet then don't buy it.

 

[J_C]

And seriously people, I hate to say this but get a fucking life. OMG, what will happen if the servers are down for a few hours a month, do you expect me to ...gasp....face reality? And what if there is a power outage in my city? What will I do with myself if I can't play mah precious vidyagame?

I don't think it's that so much as the game was advertised as offline play capable and then that capability was pulled a few weeks before release. So for some people who were planning on playing the game offline for whatever reasons they had (bad internet connection, lack of internet connection, don't like online games, lack of bandwidth, no network access on gaming system.. whatever) bought into a claim that was wrong. Frontier maintained all along that offline mode was going to happen without hinting that it might not happen. That's the rub.

As written previously in this thread I believe Frontier is handing out refunds or, at least, looking at refund requests on a case by case basis. When I checked the mega-thread at Frontier no one had managed to get a refund and I haven't been back to check up on that situation.

If you find yourself in the situation whereby you were planning on playing offline mode then request a refund. If you haven't bought the game yet then don't buy it.

Agreed, if it is a gamebreaking thing for some, they should ask for a refund. I'm just wondering how many of these naysayers have a really shitty internet connection. I have a feeling most whiners are just throwing a tantrum, while they have good internet connection.

 

[Shadowfang]

I got it for my Double Fine fanboyism, it has nothing to do with Elite. Just sayin.

Really? I thought you got it from POE.
I don't think tags expire J_C, you don't have to go to the trouble of renewing it.

 

[The Fish]

I haven't played an enormous amount over the past couple of beta iterations. Can someone tell me how the changes to the flight mechanics have effected the dog fighting? Did anyone figure out a way to use flight assist off again now you have severe velocity restrictions in non forward directions and given it can't be used to spin on the spot as effectively?

 

[Turisas]

Agreed, if it is a gamebreaking thing for some, they should ask for a refund.

In case you haven't heard, they're denying those requests by automatic messages (someone bought from their store, never played it, and got a response saying something about the kickstarter campaign). So much for the "case by case" bullshit.

 

[J_C]

I got it for my Double Fine fanboyism, it has nothing to do with Elite. Just sayin.

Really? I thought you got it from POE.
I don't think tags expire J_C, you don't have to go to the trouble of renewing it.

Nah, I actually don't like the way PoE is heading gameplay wise.

 

[J_C]

Agreed, if it is a gamebreaking thing for some, they should ask for a refund.

In case you haven't heard, they're denying those requests by automatic messages (someone bought from their store, never played it, and got a response saying something about the kickstarter campaign). So much for the "case by case" bullshit.

No, I haven't heard. Source?

 

[Turisas]

It was mentioned by more than one poster in that gigantic thread over at their forums: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789&page=621

Have fun combing through it all though, I sure won't.

 

[J_C]

It was mentioned by more than one poster in that gigantic thread over at their forums: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=58789&page=621

Have fun combing through it all though, I sure won't.

I don't care enough to do.

Anyway, new newsletter:

Welcome to Elite: Dangerous Newsletter #50!

We are sending our newsletter early this week, as we wanted to highlight what you can expect in Beta 3.9 tomorrow (Thursday 20 November), and are getting ready to host the Premiere event this coming weekend (Saturday 22 November).

We take a look at the many additional features you can expect from this last Beta build before we start the Gamma phase on Saturday.

We also wanted to round up and address the common questions we have received after last week’s announcement that there would not be an offline version of the game.

Beta is ending this Saturday – there are now just 3 more days to become a Beta backer.

If you can’t already play, becoming a Beta backer is the only way you will be able to play Elite: Dangerous until 16th December. In addition to that and the other existing Beta benefits such as Mercenary Edition and automatic permit to visit Sol, Beta backers also receive 25% off in-game ship insurance for life, plus free access to one of the 5 new ships we announced last week!

Elite: Dangerous will be released on 16th December, so there are also only 27 days left to pre-order the game and get The Elite: Dangerous Mercenary Edition additional content and benefit from the £4.99 discount. Available to buy now.

If you have already pre-ordered the final game you can still become part of the Beta now and take advantage of the lasting benefits that will give you, by upgrading your account, which will cost you an additional £15. Interested? Just go to the store, put the Beta in your basket and the correct discount will be applied when you checkout.

Contents this week (Click subject to jump forward):

Newsletter Peek of the Week
Beta 3.9
Elite: Dangerous Offline Mode - Q&A
The Elite: Dangerous Premiere Event - 22.11.14 Update
Comms Chatter

Newsletter Peek of the Week
Back to Contents
Beta 3.9
We announced in the last newsletter that Beta 3.9 would be arriving tomorrow.

Beta 3.9 is the last Beta build, with Gamma 1.0 to be released on Saturday 22 November and, of course, Elite: Dangerous 1.0 goes live on 16 Dec.

Beta 3.9 is a stepping stone to Gamma and represents a very large amount of ongoing under the hood work, as well as new features.

There will be some significant additions on Saturday for Gamma 1.0, too. The Gamma phase itself will then be about polish, fixes and optimization rather than major new features.

The 16th December release of Elite: Dangerous will see the Federation, Empire and Alliance start their machinations in earnest, adding a new depth to your experiences in the galaxy. The design team are being tight-lipped about this. All we have heard is that “Hengist Duval is sick”. More on 22 November.
Here’s a quick overview of what to expect from Beta 3.9, above and beyond the countless fixes, tweaks, improvements and optimizations that have been going in.

Top of the list is the exciting news there are now multiple ways to reach the rank of Elite! You now progress to that exalted status via Trading and/or Exploration and/or Combat, rather than Combat alone.

You can also now gain ranks with both the Federation and/or Empire as you work on their behalf.

There is a further step forward in the ongoing changes to the mission system in preparation for the 16th December, generally increasing the richness of what you are able to do. This includes an associated significant overhaul of Unidentified Signal Sources, giving increased variety and added mission related context. USS are now well worth checking out.

You can now barter with other players in deep space, by transferring non-stolen goods to them.

Ship outfitting and Galaxy map have both had major overhauls.

Last but not least for this brief summary, open-mic voice communications between up to 6 players in a group has been added.

Back to Contents
Elite: Dangerous Offline Mode - Q&A
From David Braben:

Each of the “Elite” games pushed the boundaries of the technology available. With Elite: Dangerous a major new feature is playing online, and we are pushing that hard now. Offline support was not one of our original aims, though we did believe we could support it at the start of the project. We do a great deal of processing in the cloud, and this benefits everyone playing. We had considered that an online connection is a reasonable pre-requisite for a game delivered online. I am really sorry this has upset people, but we have a strong, consistent vision that we do not want to compromise.

Below we have collected common questions from backers and the press and our answers so we can be clear about the situation.

Can I still play in single player mode?
Yes. Some people have thought that dropping 100% offline play means there wouldn’t be a single-player mode - to be clear, the single-player game is already there, but it requires a low bandwidth online connection for the reasons we explained.
I’ve even played on a laptop using a tethered connection on the train.

When was the offline mode dropped?
The decision was made recently, and was not made lightly as we have been looking for ways to satisfy everyone. We announced shortly after we concluded that it wasn’t possible to create an offline mode without unacceptably compromising the game.

Offline-only support was a requested feature during the Kickstarter – why was it dropped?
Back during the Kickstarter, we were clear about the vision, to make a phenomenal new sequel to Elite in an online world, which we believe we are about to deliver. At the time we believed we could also offer a good single player experience, and base an acceptable offline-only experience off that. As development has progressed, it has become clear that this last assumption is not the case.

Why wait so long to announce this?
In retrospect we should have shared the fact that we were struggling with this aspect with the community, but we were still trying to find a solution. As features were implemented, for the best results we chose to prioritise delivery of the online single and multiplayer experiences, with a view to providing the offline version later in development. We had to make a decision for the good of the game, and that is what we did.

What would you lose in offline mode?
We have developed a multi-player game with an unfolding story involving the players, and groups collaborating with specific objectives and taking account of all player’s behaviour. This is what the game is about. Without this it would not be the rich gaming experience that we will deliver, and would be a great disappointment to all players.

Any offline experience would be fundamentally empty. We could write a separate mission system to allow a limited series of fixed missions, but that would still not be a compelling game, and is just the first step in the mountain of work that would be required.

Do you now consider Elite: Dangerous to be an MMO?
Technically, it has always been. There are already over 100,000 people playing in the same world. We believe that always-online entertainment is already a reality for the majority. We are delivering a truly huge game using the best technology and designed to stand the test of time, played for many years to come and still be relevant.

What do you say to people who backed Elite with an offline experience in mind?
Many of the conversations we have had during development focussed on backers wanting to play the game without the downside of online – griefing especially – ie a single player experience. We considered this to be the main issue and focussed on making sure we had a great single player offering. We have also ensured that the solo play mode has a minimal network requirement(about 10 kbps).

Are you confident the servers will be stable come launch day?
Yes, as confident as we can be, because we have been testing our servers throughout the development process, and continue to do so. Our servers are the same ones that Amazon uses, and can (and have) scaled up quickly to deal with demand when needed.

What is Frontier's plan for when the servers shut down?
We do not plan to shut the servers down, but understand it is a reasonable question. We are at the beginning of the game not the end and are focused on creating a game that we hope will be played for many years in the future. We do plan to take regular archives of the game and the servers, to preserve the game for the future.

Could the server code be released publicly some day when the servers are shut down?
Yes. This is something we would do if for whatever reason we cannot keep the game going.

Will offline mode ever be implemented? Why not create a second "offline galaxy" with different secrets than the online one?
It is not out of the question we will create a cut-down game that is offline only, but this is not currently in our plan. It would still be a big undertaking to do well.

Will you give people refunds?
We have started responding to requests where there is a clear outcome:
- Those who have pre-ordered an Elite: Dangerous release version from our online store and have therefore not yet played the game are eligible for a refund.
- Those who have already been playing the game online in the Alpha and/or Beta phases, regardless of whether they backed the project via Kickstarter or purchased access to Alpha and/or Beta through our online store, are not eligible for a refund.

We want to make sure we treat each person's situation with the thoroughness it deserves, and have contacted each of them to ask that they bear with us over the next few working days if their circumstances do not fit either criteria above as we look into individual requests.

Is offline mode an impossible problem, or just unfeasible?
It is a creative decision, not wanting to produce an empty game. It is technically possible, but it would be a largely separate game development.

Why not delay the decisions and put extra resources on this after the release?
We will review the decision after release, but our priority is moving the game forwards for the great majority of players, and are wary of producing a sub-standard game.

Was this because offline players are less likely to get involved in microtransactions? Is this just about the money?
No. We have been clear and consistent. This is about the game experience. I have always been against ‘pay to win’ – in a game like Elite: Dangerous there are a great many opportunities we could have taken already that would have amounted to ‘pay to win’ but we have chosen not to.

This whole issue comes down to what the vision is of the game we are making, and whether people trust us to make the right decisions. We made this decision with heavy hearts but for the right reasons.

David Braben
Back to Contents
The Elite: Dangerous Premiere Event 22.11.14 Update
Our plans are almost complete for the Elite: Dangerous Premiere event this weekend. We hope that you join us on our Twitch channel at 8pm GMT for the livestream of the event. You can also join us on all our social media channels throughout the evening and we will be keeping you all posted on the events of the evening

Twitch channel
Facebook
Twitter

Back to Contents
Comms Chatter
You thought your Elite: Dangerous set-up was impressive? Take a look at Markus Boesen’s video.
For non-German speakers, the images speak for themselves.
Marcus Carra sent us the design for his Board game. The instructions are all in German, but it certainly got us excited to sit down and play – “I built this board game just for my own pleasure and played it with friends who pushed me to talk to publisher throughout Germany. It is said to be way too complex for the German market. The rules are tight to the original game ELITE by David Braben and Ian Bell from 1984, this is a prototype designed by me and some enthusiasts of the Oolite community (new drawings of the old ELITE concept ships).”
Titus Balls bids a fond farewell to the Beta with episode 6 of his Wonders of the Galaxy series.
Gnepcoyi on Youtube put this humorous video together about your first ever docking experience: expectations versus reality.

Regarding refunds, only those get a refund who didn't already play the game in an alpha or beta version. If you already tasted the game, you won't get a dime.

 

[bonescraper]

So, Orca and this Viper XXL confrimed for 3.9?

Looks shooped to me. Hard to tell if it's playable already or not. Hmmm.

I wonder how much will this thing cost. It's quite big.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Mmm.... Python. Now that'll be interesting.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Maybe people misinterpreted that as offline play? I can keep digging through the mails I guess, but it seems like the whole single player with online compoenent interactivity was a feature from day 1.

implied singleplayer possibility from kickstarter faq itself:

Will the game be DRM-free?

Yes, the game code will not include DRM (Digital Rights Management), but there will be server authentication when you connect for multiplayer and/or updates and to synchronise with the server.

+
outright stated singleplayer offline after people kept asking and asking about it. i don't remember when the update with the addition was exactly, but it was way before i backed, and one of the reasons why i did so in the first place.

How will single player work? Will I need to connect to a server to play?

The galaxy for Elite: Dangerous is a shared universe maintained by a central server. All of the meta data for the galaxy is shared between players. This includes the galaxy itself as well as transient information like economies. The aim here is that a player's actions will influence the development of the galaxy, without necessarily having to play multiplayer.

The other important aspect for us is that we can seed the galaxy with events, often these events will be triggered by player actions. With a living breathing galaxy players can discover new and interesting things long after they have started playing.

Update! The above is the intended single player experience. However it will be possible to have a single player game without connecting to the galaxy server. You won't get the features of the evolving galaxy (although we will investigate minimising those differences) and you probably won't be able to sync between server and non-server (again we'll investigate).

in short: people kept asking for offline, they said it would contain an offline mode, and now that beta is ending are again flip-flopping on that, which seems like kind of a dick move to max backing and beta sales.

not being able to play when the internet gives out in this shithole of a city is fucking annoying, especially when i gave them a ton of money for a game that promised that i could if i wanted to... ah well, at least i still get infinite cobra mk3s to crash into stuff.

 

[Whiran]

in short: people kept asking for offline, they said it would contain an offline mode, and now that beta is ending are again flip-flopping on that, which seems like kind of a dick move to max backing and beta sales.

I agree, it is totally a dick move to do it this way.

From what I read when I did peek at the mega-thread over at Frontier there were definitely a significant number of people who backed the Kickstarter of Elite: Dangerous because of the offline mode.

If they had not said they were going to 100% have an offline mode they would not have backed the project.

Frontier maintained the belief and actively marketed the game with the idea of the offline mode being there. At no time in any of the statements made by Frontier did they even suggest that the offline mode was just a possibility. It was a core feature of the game.

Frontier should suck it up and give refunds to those people who ask for them. They were sold on something that is not going to happen.

If the number of people who want offline only mode is really small then what's the big deal?

If the number of people who want offline mode is really big then Frontier purposefully preyed on their hopes and told them falsehoods to get their money.

Regardless of how Frontier imagined the game internally in their external communications they maintained the illusion that offline mode was going to be available and actively sold that concept to people so they would buy into the game. That is definitely a dick move.

 

[J_C]

Frontier should suck it up and give refunds to those people who ask for them. They were sold on something that is not going to happen.

Frontier is giving refunds to those who preordered/backed the game, but haven't played the alpha-beta.

 

[Morkar Left]

I don't think it's a good move wanting to prevent people who played the beta to get a refund. I don't even see the logical reason behind that.

 

[J_C]

I don't think it's a good move wanting to prevent people who played the beta to get a refund. I don't even see the logical reason behind that.

The reason is that if you played the beta, probably enjoyed it (otherwise you wouldn't have played it), you didn't care about being always online (otherwise you wouldn't have played it), then don't try to pull a 180 and want a refund. Oh, you liked playing online, didn't have any problem with it, but suddenly, after you put a 100 hour into our game, you want your money back? Then fuck you!

It's like if you buy a product in a store and after you get home you realize that you didn't want it, you can get back into the store and get a refund. But good luck getting a refund after taking home the product, using it for 4 months, enjoying it, and then returning it to the shop.

 

[bonescraper]

And i bet half of those clowns who are throwing a hissy fit, and are canceling their pre-orders now, will end up buying the game eventually.

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/5/5972671/diablo-3-activision-blizzard-pc-sales

 

[shihonage]

Fanbois using ad hominem to counter reason. Some things never change.

 

[J_C]

Nobody used ad hominem, just sayin. Do you even know what it means?