ELEX Pre-Release Thread

[Metro]

How many people that worked on G1 and G2 are still there? Hell... how many people that worked on Risen 1 are still there?

 

[Jools]

tranny they will have sex with tonight.

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I feel upbeat about their next game because

a) It's not another Risen.
b) 512MB RAM restrictions left behind for good.

I feel like I should install Gothic 3 + Mods now.

I don't understand how anyone can get into Gothic 3, even with mods and years of fan made patches. I bought it at release, and the core mechanics, design, and overall presentation just plain sucked.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

How many people that worked on G1 and G2 are still there? Hell... how many people that worked on Risen 1 are still there?

Nobody. I love Risen #1 too FYI.

 

[Eirikur]

Whoa whoa whoa, there's a Risen 3? What's the consensus?
Did you work for Piranha Bytes?

No, I'm just a long-time fan (though less so post-R2).

How many people that worked on G1 and G2 are still there? Hell... how many people that worked on Risen 1 are still there?

These are the core old guard who designed Gothic 1-2 (as far as I know - I'm going by memory):

Alex Brüggemann (Founder) - Died in 2013
Mike Hoge (Founder) - Left after R2
Tom Putzki (Founder) - Left after G2
Stefan Nyul (Founder) - Left after G2
Björn Pankratz - Still there
Horst Dworczak - Still there
Stefan Kalveram - Still there
Sascha Henrichs - Still there

 

[Maschtervoz]

I want to feel better about whatever PB plan to do next. I really do. But first they need to realize that consoleros do not give a molecule of a fuck about their games and make an honest effort to pay some attention to their old fanbase. And definitely not in the same way as Risen 3's "we're going back to our roots swear on our moms", which was a load of horseshit. Those invisible walls and the retarded enemies only attacking one at a time still make me butthurt as fuck.

I just remembered I keep trying to replay Gothic 3 since I only beaten it once on release and I just rushed through Nordmar and Varant because I couldn't stand it anymore. I really made an effort to play the thing last summer, even bought all three games on steam as encouragement, but I lost interest after half a dozen hours and just ended up replaying Gothic 1 for the gorillionth time instead. Sometimes, I find myself thinking I should give it another chance this summer but then I remember combat vs animals and start feeling my life energy just draining away.

 

[Outlander]

These are the core old guard who designed Gothic 1-2 (as far as I know - I'm going by memory):

Alex Brüggemann (Founder) - Died in 2013
Mike Hoge (Founder) - Left after R2
Tom Putzki (Founder) - Left after G2
Stefan Nyul (Founder) - Left after G2
Björn Pankratz - Still there
Horst Dworczak - Still there
Stefan Kalveram - Still there
Sascha Henrichs - Still there

Kai Rosenkranz is also gone.

 

[Metro]

What's baffling is it isn't very hard -- in theory -- to replicate the Gothic formula. They did it well enough in Risen 1 but instead of expanding on that they actually cut out the facets that make PB games.. PB games. Lack of factions, lack of meaningful character builds, etc. Apparently R3 was a step back in the right direction but... who knows. Where can they really take the Gothic universe beyond G3? R1 was the obvious follow up to that just with a different IP.

 

[Doktor Best]

the gothic formula is really simple all in all:

-hard as fuck difficulty, especially at the beginning
-interesting social structures with interesting factions
-natural gameworld contentblockers that require you to either gain strength or social status to progress, which are clearly signaled to the player, almost resembling a metroidvania game.
-rich handcrafted gameworld filled with secrets and opportunities

The main problem with risen3 was the ridiculously easy difficulty (its fixed to some extent with the latest patch introducing cooldown on potion use and the removal of invincibility frames on your dodge rolls), which was also due to the fact that they wanted to make it a nonlinear openworld game. there is not much difference between fighting some monkey and fighting the hardest enemies of the game, which is ridiculous. add absolutely overpowered spells to the formula and bang, you have a boring game, despite of all its qualities.

gothic games always took a big load of its charme out of providing a challenging, hostile gameworld to the player, especially at the beginning of the game. There is no other rpg that made you feel like a defenseless little piece of shit like gothic 1+2, and therefor the rewarding feeling of getting a grip in the gameworld and slowly becoming a "strong" character proving yourself with the given tasks is unparalleled. take that away and the whole gamedesign formula collapses.

i have no fucking clue how pb can not see that. its really borderline dumbfuckery at its finest. i am from germany so playing risen3 made me want to get in my car, drive to Essen and fling shit at their head office like the angry monkey i was.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

the gothic formula is really simple all in all:

-hard as fuck difficulty, especially at the beginning
-interesting social structures with interesting factions
-natural gameworld contentblockers that require you to either gain strength or social status to progress, which are clearly signaled to the player, almost resembling a metroidvania game.
-rich handcrafted gameworld filled with secrets and opportunities

You're missing tangible differences upon learning skills and FUCKING AMAZING MUSIC, but true otherwise. Also completely morals free.

 

[lorn]

I wonder to what extent you can even say, that Piranha Bytes is still Piranha Bytes. Looking at the list of people, who left the company there isn't much left.

I loved Gothic 1 and 2; I preordered Gothic 3 and stopped after 2 hours, because it was so horribly broken. 3 Years later, after I finished Risen, I tried it again wih the community patch. I managed to play about 15 hours, before I stopped, because I was bored to tears by the formula of "go to village, do quests for humans or orcs, go to next village", without ever seeing any character progression. Whether I was Level 2 with no armor or Lvl 20 with a 60 protection armor, a wolf was exactly the same challenge.

Risen was a good game, I enjoyed about 80% of it(i.e. everything, before they send you into temple after temple). It was a nice throwback to Gothic 1. Then Risen 2 comes along, completely changes the lore of the series to this weird pirate/fantasy hybrid and implements the worst combat system I've ever played, well maybe on par with release Gothic 3. Not to mention the crappy items, I believe you could get the best item for a slot basically right after game start.
I didn't even touch Risen 3 so far. I find it hard to trust PB with delivering anything good ever again.

As for Hoges project. Remains to be seen, it sounds very ambitous. If they aim for a 2017 release, there is plenty of time and personally I don't give a toss about it till it's actually nearing a release.

 

[Gerrard]

I tried playing Risen since I bought it on some sale long ago, but shit keeps randomly crashing with some VC++ errors. Apparently it's a known problem without known solutions.

 

[Maschtervoz]

-interesting social structures with interesting factions

PB were fucking godlike with this. Gothic 1 and 2 have the best designed settlements and factions I've ever seen. They know how to use architecture, armor design, NPCs, music, environment and the like to create memorable and unique locations, each with its own distinct atmosphere. Really brings the gameworld to life and makes downtime in the settlements actually feel relaxing. The Swamp Camp in the evening, Orlan's tavern, the Old Camp marketplace and castle courtyard, the Fire Mage monastery and the pirate camp are especially

 

[Metro]

I tried playing Risen since I bought it on some sale long ago, but shit keeps randomly crashing with some VC++ errors. Apparently it's a known problem without known solutions.

Known problem = your computer is shit.

 

[Leitz]

the gothic formula is really simple all in all:

-interesting social structures with interesting factions
...
-rich handcrafted gameworld filled with secrets and opportunities

That's not simple. These are two things, that RPG devs fuck up generally. Maybe they made Gothic I-II so good by chance. That seems to happen alot in the game industry.

 

[toro]

Piranha Bytes games tl;dn.
Gothic 1 - kind of hard to get into becouse hard control system, but it pay with atmosphere, dialogues(not best but still add something) and maybe some nostalgia.
Gothic 2 - Best of the best, with Night of the Raven one of better games I played. And if you don't agree with me, well... I can say only this in potato 'Powiedzmy sobie szczerze. Przyszedłeś tutaj tylko dlatego, żeby móc pocałować DU w dupę!'
Gothic 3 - worst of the series, but after large amount of patches it is good game. Well... at least medicore.
Risen 1 - nice game, have some Gothic spirit. Can give large amount of fun.
Risen 2 - nope. This is big fucking nope.
Risen 3 - Polished turd. Another big fucking nope.

 

[Obama Phone 3]

I'll take a Gothic reboot right about now. Both series have been killed.

 

[Metro]

I would pay/KS $30-40 for a remake of G1 with an updated engine, more polished mechanics, and some added content.

 

[Jools]

I'd pay 100€ for a G1+G2 remake, limited to the engine. in fact I'd be really happy if they left everything else as it is.

 

[Maschtervoz]

I'd pay 100€ for a G1+G2 remake, limited to the engine. in fact I'd be really happy if they left everything else as it is.

G1 did have some obviously unifinshed content left around though, like the always hostile camp of bandits between the old mine and the troll canyon. There were also some rather barebones areas like the free mine or the swamps around the sect camp. I think it would be cool for a remake to work a bit of new content into these.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

G1 did have some obviously unifinshed content left around though, like the always hostile camp of bandits between the old mine and the troll canyon. There were also some rather barebones areas like the free mine or the swamps around the sect camp. I think it would be cool for a remake to work a bit of new content into these.

As long as that new content doesn't stick out like a sore thumb but instead blends in with the rest of the game which is the tricky part. Gothic was made in a different time when the gaming world was bolder and more experimental, nowadays everything (nearly, there are exceptions) has to abide by certain norms, be safe, welcoming and progressive. It was a game in which you character was an absolute weakling at the start who got welcomed into to the game's world with a punch to the face, where in the first settlement you reached guards tried to extort you for protection money and treated you like dirt. Throwing you weight around and stealing other people's shit could get you killed.

IMO you'd need to go back to that mindset of designing a truly gritty, dirty world instead of Disneyland with a rough exterior to make any meaningful content additions to Gothic. Otherwise, just update the engine and don't fuck with anything else.

 

[Metro]

There was some content originally designed that was left out and I'm sure the current group could think of some other appropriate stuff to flesh out the world a bit more.

 

[Jools]

I'd pay 100€ for a G1+G2 remake, limited to the engine. in fact I'd be really happy if they left everything else as it is.

G1 did have some obviously unifinshed content left around though, like the always hostile camp of bandits between the old mine and the troll canyon. There were also some rather barebones areas like the free mine or the swamps around the sect camp. I think it would be cool for a remake to work a bit of new content into these.

Well, sure, but I would still be more than happy to have it merely updated to 2015 graphics. They could just import the model(s) to Risen 2 engine and add a few polys and props...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Rather Risen's than Risen 2's.

 

[Jools]

, just update the engine and don't fuck with anything else.

My point exactly. Because I know, and the more so after Risen 3, that they would fuck the gameplay up, if they actually made any changes to it.