Dungeons and Dragons 4E

[Lurkar]

But then again, it's not about realism. RPGs trying to be realistic are usually not all that much fun. Not when it takes about 20 seconds for a party of wannabe heroes to get reduced to cripples & corpses.

Don't be rediculous. There's a reason the ideal levels for playing aren't very high.

Combat is fun when it's actually dangerous. You don't remember the time your party just routinely steamrolled everything, but you do remember the time two of your party members died and your sorcerer, slightly drunk at the table, went to amazing lengths to let the last member escape.

 

[Keldorn]

But do RPG's actually have to be realistic to be extremely challenging ? It seems to me that you can have extreme challenge by immersing yourself in an utterly wacky and insanely difficult high-fantasy boss battle, such as found when playing the final BG2:ToB battle on hardcore rules setting.

 

[Lurkar]

But do RPG's actually have to be realistic to be extremely challenging ? It seems to me that you can have extreme challenge by immersing yourself in an utterly wacky and insanely difficult high-fantasy boss battle, such as found when playing the final BG2:ToB battle on hardcore rules setting.

You mean the BBEG? The good ones usually don't just become all the party attacking one guy, no twists, no interesting things lying around, final destination only. That's just SCREAMING for an unlucky roll made on the BBEG's part against a save-or-die spell.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that the best games are the ones where it becomes the players versus each other versus the DM versus the books, at last in standard D&D.

 

[Norfleet]

You mean the BBEG? The good ones usually don't just become all the party attacking one guy, no twists, no interesting things lying around, final destination only. That's just SCREAMING for an unlucky roll made on the BBEG's part against a save-or-die spell.

Save or die is really a horrible design mechanic. In many cases, there is no effective way to avoid its effects other than by pure random chance, which, by the 3E save mechanics, is basically impossible, because all the saving throws are rigged such that characters are divided into "bad" saves that always fail, and "good" saves that practically always succeed. It similarly trivializes the entire "dying" thing, and trivializing death always detracts from the game experience. The idea that killed characters can be trivially brought back from the dead with a simple midlevel spell is something that negatively colors the entire game experience. How many times in CRPGs have you seen an important NPC die as part of the plotline, and thought to yourself, "Well, why don't I just cast Raise Dead/use a Phoenix Down/etc.?" The entire trivialization of DYING simply makes the rest of the plot look rather contrived and silly.

 

[Human Shield]

Only heavy simulation nuts wants characters that die from disease after 1 week because that is what the statistics produce.

A good system is one in which protagonist "luck" is actually part of the system. The characters are never random people, they are main characters. The system should be realistic to make sense in the world and characters surviving should be a metagame mechanic because that it what it WILL be. Riddle of Steel is one of the most realistic systems but it gives bonuses to characters for working towards what their character wants so they can get stuff done but are threatened in a plot twist.

Realistic systems can provide heavy tactics and fast, bloody combat instead of the normal tank, heal, HP bar depletion test.

 

[Lurkar]

It similarly trivializes the entire "dying" thing, and trivializing death always detracts from the game experience. The idea that killed characters can be trivially brought back from the dead with a simple midlevel spell is something that negatively colors the entire game experience. How many times in CRPGs have you seen an important NPC die as part of the plotline, and thought to yourself, "Well, why don't I just cast Raise Dead/use a Phoenix Down/etc.?" The entire trivialization of DYING simply makes the rest of the plot look rather contrived and silly.

Wait, death is trivialized? I dunno about you, but I don't play with the Baldur's Gate "Resurrection costs 100 gold" rule. If your character goes down, you better have some diamonds ready.

 

[Andhaira]

thats why I like realms of arkania crpg's. Disease is actually one of the main killers in the game, and there are lots, and lots of them.

Sucxh a gem of a trilogy. No one can call themself a crpger if they have not played and finished at least one of these babies.

 

[kingcomrade]

In regards to D&D (any edition)'s social interaction I just read this comment and it made me lol:

D&D has no social abilities, because it's players have none. What they claim are social abilities are really just hitting people using your voice.

 

[Norfleet]

Wait, death is trivialized? I dunno about you, but I don't play with the Baldur's Gate "Resurrection costs 100 gold" rule. If your character goes down, you better have some diamonds ready.

Which CRPG implements this, AND makes diamonds things are not trivially acquired? I mean, I've seen even 10K+ gold resurrections, but the fact of the matter is that there is nothing you ever can really DO with the gold, and finishing with millions of gold pieces from all the vendortrash you've unloaded is commonplace.