Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[agris]

Well, it is exactly -10% dodge for spears.
Those guys are spearman with shield and axeman.

A few points. If you look at the Aim: Legs description, you'll see that the dodge malus is based on the AP of the attack. So a short bow (4/5 AP) imposes less of a penalty to dodge than a long recurve bow (7 AP), for example. I assume that holds true with spears as well.

Second, regarding the mechanics, I think this reflects that the shield-using NPC's defense stat isn't derived from dodge, but rather block. You are decreasing dodge, but since his primary defense skill is block, his defense rating is calculated using block, thus a dodge malus isn't changing your THC.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

There are two enemy in Barca's gang, when I used Aimed: Legs on them, THC didn't increase, is it bug or something in mechanics I don't undestand?

I dont know how it's working. Log doesnt showing second bonus either. For example: I hit ant warrior legs two times. Game showing dodge penalty -10 on first attack, and dodge penalty -10 on second one. Ants lose 1 hp for every attack, but dodge penalty stack only once. It is random bug and only work if you click too fast.
Sometimes i even manage to get a rain of same damage popups over the enemy head.

Also, in secind fight, where Ardomir - there is a swordman with shield, I have Torso: Strike THC something ~25% and yet every strike hits the target, but this time I'm sure it isn't a bug.

This swordsman have low block skill. It's enough to block your attack, but not enough to activate passive that completely negate all incoming damage. So swordsman will block damage equal to his shield DR + armor DR. This is working up to molerats, where skill and gear gap start showing, and this strat renders useless. You want to have high Perception to continue going for arterial, torso or head strikes after midgame.

 

[Cadmus]

Goral Elhoim I really can't apply the sharpening stone to my main spear guy. I checked now and upon applying the stone and closing the inventory, stone appears back (but I swear I saw it disappear sometimes before....) and I get no bonus. What gives? Is there some prerequisite I'm not meeting? But then it wouldn't show the weapon as sharpened in the inventory. Nobody else gets this?

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Goral Elhoim I really can't apply the sharpening stone to my main spear guy. I checked now and upon applying the stone and closing the inventory, stone appears back (but I swear I saw it disappear sometimes before....) and I get no bonus. What gives? Is there some prerequisite I'm not meeting? But then it wouldn't show the weapon as sharpened in the inventory. Nobody else gets this?

You need at least 2 Crafting to apply stone to the bronze weapons. If you doing this in fight, then check for AP left --- you need at least 1.

 

[Cadmus]

Goral Elhoim I really can't apply the sharpening stone to my main spear guy. I checked now and upon applying the stone and closing the inventory, stone appears back (but I swear I saw it disappear sometimes before....) and I get no bonus. What gives? Is there some prerequisite I'm not meeting? But then it wouldn't show the weapon as sharpened in the inventory. Nobody else gets this?

You need at least 2 Crafting to apply stone to the bronze weapons. If you doing this in fight, then check for AP left --- you need at least 1.

What? I need crafting to apply the stone?
So to apply the stone to steel I need 6 crafting? But why does the game show the stone applied then. There should be some message instead of it disappearing.

 

[Fenix]

Ants lose 1 hp for every attack, but dodge penalty stack only once.

Wait, you mean that only one such attack works?
But I can descrease enemy's dodge quite sagnificant, stacking those penalties like first turn Aimed Legs only, then Aimed Head, or Arterial Strike or anything.
Or I simply didn't understand your words.

Btw, what if that one-handed spear + block chracter goes for full throwing, and will use spear just for interrupt?
That was my initial plan.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

I'm worded it wrong. After you get 2 crafting, you can apply stone to any weapon, but for different damage and duration. I guess you picked Scaurus spear, which buffed by stone already. If this true, you wont notice any change.
EDIT: Fenix, leg penalties stack. There is common bug, when game showing that you succeded, but you not realy. Enemy still lose hp for some reason.

 

[Fenix]

This swordsman have low block skill. It's enough to block your attack, but not enough to activate passive that completely negate all incoming damage. So swordsman will block damage equal to his shield DR + armor DR.

Yeah, but why I hit him with every strike, if my THC for him is ~25%?

 

[Darth Roxor]

vault dweller

all i want to say is

i will have your head one day

for those

fucking

poison shooting plants

against which i have 96% thc

and which constantly doge

sincerely yours :^)

 

[Fenix]

Also, btw, if you wait for Ismail death, what with skorps, they will be gone? I don't remember.

 

[Goral]

They're alive (maybe one is dead, can't remember) but they are severely wounded and you get all of his alchemy inventory.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

They block skill must be very low. They cant block even my 3 axe 4 PER character head attacks. l think they have block skill of 2. Even my 13% attack landing 50% of the times. 7 + 50 - 13 = 44% of perfect block. BTW, read EDIT section of my previous comment for clarification on dodge penalties.
ON Ismail fight: There will be two common scorpions left. It is boils down to choise between xp and alchemy inventory of Ismail, mainly for 1 of 3 eagle eye potions in the game.
On plants tactics: use 3 Ap fast attack weapon. Move in, strike 2 times, move out. Plants harmless against 10 dodge or 8 block with vsRanged 15. That tactic works if you have at least 10 AP. Use 1 regular and 1 fast instead if you have 12 AP. Wait with 1 AP left to use antidote in the end of the turn if you need one. Two handed spears destroy plants very well due to interupt attack against archers exploit.

 

[Fenix]

They're alive (maybe one is dead, can't remember) but they are severely wounded and you get all of his alchemy inventory.

But do get same exp if you wait for his death?

It is boils down to choise between xp and alchemy inventory of Ismail, mainly for 1 of 3 eagle eye potions in the game.

You mean that if you let him die, you'll get less exp?

I'm sure I tested it in my dagger run, but I already forgot it.

They block skill must be very low. They cant block even my 3 axe 4 PER character head attacks. l think they have block skill of 2. Even my 13% attack landing 50% of the times. 7 + 50 - 13 = 44% of perfect block.

Yeah, but I always hit that guy with 25% THC and very often miss other with hammer with THC ~60+. That is strange and a little misleading because if I hadn't tried Aimed Torso on swordsman, this fight would be much more difficult.

 

[agris]

vault dweller

all i want to say is

i will have your head one day

for those

fucking

poison shooting plants

against which i have 96% thc

and which constantly doge

sincerely yours :^)

you should have looted some crude wooden tower shields (+25 vs Ranged) a while ago. Put one on your tank-iest guy, pump him full of scorp juice, and have him draw fire while the plants dodge all your attacks.

edit: antivenom works as a prophylactic also, something the item description doesn't really convey. you can use it during the positioning phase from inventory, but not the belt slot. still not clear if that is a bug or an exploit.

 

[Fenix]

leg penalties stack. There is common bug, when game showing that you succeded, but you not realy. Enemy still lose hp for some reason.

Hm, that explain it, but it only happens with this two, and I tried a lot to get this dodge debuffs, but it is never heppened.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Actualy I dont know for sure. Logicaly it should give you more xp, but I doubt it after ants and ant queen fights. Number of enemies doesnt seem to affect xp gain.

Yeah, but I always hit that guy with 25% THC and very often miss other with hammer with THC ~60+. That is strange and a little misleading because if I hadn't tried Aimed Torso on swordsman, this fight would be much more difficult.

nah, RNGgesus hate your hammer then. BTW, how your ironman run going?

 

[agris]

guys, like I said, your THC won't change with hits to the leg on enemies having block as their main defense skill. the aim: leg doesn't say penalty to defense, it says penalty to dodge.

 

[Fenix]

BTW, how your ironman run going?

Stopped before Ismail.
Btw, why didn't you killed skorps before? I stomped them just before Barca fight, do they more dangerous for dodgers?

guys, like I said, your THC won't change with hits to the leg on enemies having block as their main defense skill. the aim: leg doesn't say penalty to defense, it says penalty to dodge.

Ahaaaaa. I see.
But anyway I need clarification from devs.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Stopped before Ismail.
Btw, why didn't you killed skorps before? I stomped them just before Barca fight, do they more dangerous for dodgers?

I can stomp them too, but it wont give me extra xp + Ismail uses all liquid fires and eagle eye neuro.

guys, like I said, your THC won't change with hits to the leg on enemies having block as their main defense skill. the aim: leg doesn't say penalty to defense, it says penalty to dodge.

Shame on me. I never tried to bring down shield dudes defence by legs strikes in AoD and DR. I believe you, my good sir. I wondered, why they never recommended to hit shield enemies legs in combat system review.

 

[agris]

Shame on me. I never tried to bring down shield dudes defence by legs strikes in AoD and DR. I believe you, my good sir. I wondered, why they never recommended to hit shield enemies legs in combat system review.

I'm not implying that you're stupid, I'm replying to Felix's questions about why the actions you outlined above didn't change his THC.

 

[Fenix]

I can stomp them too, but it wont give me extra xp + Ismail uses all liquid fires and eagle eye neuro.

I mean those 4 with stat jar.

Stopped before Black Skolopendra, because it is... ugh.. scary, because even usual gave me fight of my life...
Also, I have no fucking idea how to kill 3 worms lol.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Stopped before Black Skolopendra, because it is... ugh.. scary, because even usual gave me fight of my life...
Also, I have no fucking idea how to kill 3 worms lol.

3 worms is easy with good cs defence, cs attack and DR. Dont risk them before Temple. You dont need super bomb, jar and blue steel at this point. You can try them, if you struggle with scaurus. But how you kill xbow medbot then? I think 4 strong liquid fires and burning one can got him.

 

[Tigranes]

Alright, the sword/block + Marcus + Roxana combo made it out. The final battle with the waves was a nice touch.

Now trying to make spears work (which I never did in AOD), or maybe bow, for a 2-man run. I don't think I'll ever do 4, it just seems like overkill for the AOD system.

 

[ComradeReptiloid]

Yep, sword + block is competetive enough for solo. Roxana will add more mayhem to this build.

 

[Whisper]

I can stomp them too, but it wont give me extra xp + Ismail uses all liquid fires and eagle eye neuro.

I mean those 4 with stat jar.

Stopped before Black Skolopendra, because it is... ugh.. scary, because even usual gave me fight of my life...
Also, I have no fucking idea how to kill 3 worms lol.

Hint, liquid fire.