Dragon's Dogma II - "They’re masterworks, all – you can’t go wrong"

[anvi]

What makes it MMOish is the big world that takes ages to travel through, lots of trash mob fights, endless respawns, lots of junk loot to sort through with merchants, respawns back at town and repeating the same thing, playing a single character while a party around you does stuff like tanking/healing without you, etc...

What makes it a bad version of this is the fact that all of those things are demonstrably worse than other older games. You only think this shitty Nintendo experience is good because you have no frame of reference. Meme at me all you want, it doesn't change that fact.

 

[anvi]

Yes very boring and dumb. The cannon fodder pawns go in to tank and get smashed around while you do the 1 huge spell the destroy everything. Or a few smaller spells that destroy everything in a slightly less awesome-button way. All in a game with bad ui, bad itemisation, bad repeating voice overs, tedious linear world design, etc. Yeah it's maybe better than Skyrim or whatever, there aren't many alternatives, but still the standards are low as hell. You don't have to accept all that.

It makes me sad that you don't like Dragons Dogma or Skyrim.

It makes me sad you would defend them after playing EverQuest. A 23+ year old game made with a tiny budget and a tiny team... Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

Skyrim is a shallow pile of shit from a megacorporation turned into billionaires by the low standard pleb public. It's not even as good as earlier ES games which themselves are miles off EQ, and this is too. It's unjust, and it sucks for gaming that all the retards in this thread are trying to tell me what's better when they clearly have no fucking clue. You do, you should know better.

 

[Delterius]

lots of junk loot to sort through with merchants

That's not really an MMO thing innit

 

[Zombra]

NEWS FLASH
Playing a party-based game with other human allies instead of excellent AI bots can be more enjoyable unless you prefer to play a single-player game
Stay tuned for more informative updates on this astonishing story

 

[Machocruz]

It makes me sad you would defend them after playing EverQuest. A 23+ year old game made with a tiny budget and a tiny team... Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

Skyrim is a shallow pile of shit from a megacorporation turned into billionaires by the low standard pleb public. It's not even as good as earlier ES games which themselves are miles off EQ, and this is too. It's unjust, and it sucks for gaming that all the retards in this thread are trying to tell me what's better when they clearly have no fucking clue. You do, you should know better.

Bro I see you. Your ongoing praise for EverQuest in various threads is admirable. It is indeed a milestone game. A GOAT, as they say. But by the same token, an unfair comparison. Dragon's Dogma is but a console action-RPG (i.e. arcade game with stats). In that field, such as it is, it is one of the finest examples yet produced. But even at that, it cannot compare to a good MMO or CRPG (cough Gothic)in depth, detail, complexity, and simulation. The strengths such games as DD have to compete on are action/arcade combat mechanics, feel and feedback and spectacle of such combat, control and movement. Completely different set of criteria, maybe a lower, dumber bar, but it is what it is. I'd say it does those better than at least 95% of any such game, and better than all western made games in that space. Only the likes of Platinum, Team Ninja, or other Capcom games are in the ballpark. The Dark Arisen expansion puts it over the top, with dungeon crawling they don't touch.

 

[anvi]

lots of junk loot to sort through with merchants

That's not really an MMO thing innit

No but put it all together and that's what the game is like...

 

[anvi]

It makes me sad you would defend them after playing EverQuest. A 23+ year old game made with a tiny budget and a tiny team... Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

Skyrim is a shallow pile of shit from a megacorporation turned into billionaires by the low standard pleb public. It's not even as good as earlier ES games which themselves are miles off EQ, and this is too. It's unjust, and it sucks for gaming that all the retards in this thread are trying to tell me what's better when they clearly have no fucking clue. You do, you should know better.

Bro I see you. Your ongoing praise for EverQuest in various threads is admirable. It is indeed a milestone game. A GOAT, as they say. But by the same token, an unfair comparison. Dragon's Dogma is but a console action-RPG (i.e. arcade game with stats). In that field, such as it is, it is one of the finest examples yet produced. But even at that, it cannot compare to a good MMO or CRPG (cough Gothic)in depth, detail, complexity, and simulation. The strengths such games as DD have to compete on are action/arcade combat mechanics, feel and feedback and spectacle of such combat, control and movement. Completely different set of criteria, maybe a lower, dumber bar, but it is what it is. I'd say it does those better than at least 95% of any such game, and better than all western made games in that space. Only the likes of Platinum, Team Ninja, or other Capcom games are in the ballpark. The Dark Arisen expansion puts it over the top, with dungeon crawling they don't touch.

There is absolutely nothing unfair about comparing them, and this game does compare to MMOs in lots of ways. And it compares VERY poorly. A lot of fans of this game only have a console so they have no idea what they are missing out on. Something like WoW is far more engaging than this game and most of the codex top 20 put together. And even WoW is weak compared to some of the others. If people want to call it just some "console action rpg" that's fine, but there's a thread full of people here trying to tell me this is a good game and I should be excited for more of the same. All of those people need to gtfo.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

So what? You literally press a button and things die.

 

[Pink Eye]

WoW is far more engaging than this game and most of the codex top 20 put together.

 

[anvi]

Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

So what? You literally press a button and things die.

Every new class you try out you have to go through the same terrible intro, tutorial, and first hour of the game. You could have multiple starting locations each unique.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Yes very boring and dumb. The cannon fodder pawns go in to tank and get smashed around while you do the 1 huge spell the destroy everything. Or a few smaller spells that destroy everything in a slightly less awesome-button way. All in a game with bad ui, bad itemisation, bad repeating voice overs, tedious linear world design, etc. Yeah it's maybe better than Skyrim or whatever, there aren't many alternatives, but still the standards are low as hell. You don't have to accept all that.

It makes me sad that you don't like Dragons Dogma or Skyrim.

It makes me sad you would defend them after playing EverQuest. A 23+ year old game made with a tiny budget and a tiny team... Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

Skyrim is a shallow pile of shit from a megacorporation turned into billionaires by the low standard pleb public. It's not even as good as earlier ES games which themselves are miles off EQ, and this is too. It's unjust, and it sucks for gaming that all the retards in this thread are trying to tell me what's better when they clearly have no fucking clue. You do, you should know better.

Fucking hell dude. I was just saying I was saddened you didnt like Dragons Dogma / Skyrim because I like your opinion and enjoy talking with you. No need to rip on me about it as I am certainly not in this thread to rip on anyone about what games they like or dont like.

 

[Ninjerk]

Yes very boring and dumb. The cannon fodder pawns go in to tank and get smashed around while you do the 1 huge spell the destroy everything. Or a few smaller spells that destroy everything in a slightly less awesome-button way. All in a game with bad ui, bad itemisation, bad repeating voice overs, tedious linear world design, etc. Yeah it's maybe better than Skyrim or whatever, there aren't many alternatives, but still the standards are low as hell. You don't have to accept all that.

It makes me sad that you don't like Dragons Dogma or Skyrim.

It makes me sad you would defend them after playing EverQuest. A 23+ year old game made with a tiny budget and a tiny team... Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

Skyrim is a shallow pile of shit from a megacorporation turned into billionaires by the low standard pleb public. It's not even as good as earlier ES games which themselves are miles off EQ, and this is too. It's unjust, and it sucks for gaming that all the retards in this thread are trying to tell me what's better when they clearly have no fucking clue. You do, you should know better.

Fucking hell dude. I was just saying I was saddened you didnt like Dragons Dogma / Skyrim because I like your opinion and enjoy talking with you. No need to rip on me about it as I am certainly not in this thread to rip on anyone about what games they like or dont like.

You did say you liked Skyrim.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

So what? You literally press a button and things die.

Every new class you try out you have to go through the same terrible intro, tutorial, and first hour of the game. You could have multiple starting locations each unique.

So what? You literally press a button and things die.

 

[anvi]

Yes very boring and dumb. The cannon fodder pawns go in to tank and get smashed around while you do the 1 huge spell the destroy everything. Or a few smaller spells that destroy everything in a slightly less awesome-button way. All in a game with bad ui, bad itemisation, bad repeating voice overs, tedious linear world design, etc. Yeah it's maybe better than Skyrim or whatever, there aren't many alternatives, but still the standards are low as hell. You don't have to accept all that.

It makes me sad that you don't like Dragons Dogma or Skyrim.

It makes me sad you would defend them after playing EverQuest. A 23+ year old game made with a tiny budget and a tiny team... Yet multiple starting locations, interesting racial abilities, complex faction system that changes as you play, thousands of unique items, mobs, quests, and a world so big it had a sense of wonder that other games don't even come close to, varied weather, a combat and magic system so complex it had emergent gameplay all over the place that got balanced in real time, pets you can control and equip, dozens of well designed dungeons with traps and puzzles and secrets and unique creatures/loot, hugely varied locations and mob types, etc.

Skyrim is a shallow pile of shit from a megacorporation turned into billionaires by the low standard pleb public. It's not even as good as earlier ES games which themselves are miles off EQ, and this is too. It's unjust, and it sucks for gaming that all the retards in this thread are trying to tell me what's better when they clearly have no fucking clue. You do, you should know better.

Fucking hell dude. I was just saying I was saddened you didnt like Dragons Dogma / Skyrim because I like your opinion and enjoy talking with you. No need to rip on me about it as I am certainly not in this thread to rip on anyone about what games they like or dont like.

That's nice, but that WAS my opinion on Dragons Dogma and Skyrim, and Witcher 3, and everything else like that. They are boring and stupid and basic compared to what we've seen a good team can do even with just a few people and a low budget. They get away with it because console gamers don't know any better. They are consuming McGames and saying it's a good thing and I'm the biggest retard evor for wanting what 4 dorks and $3m did 20+ years ago... People deserve their McShit sandwiches.

 

[mediocrepoet]

What makes it MMOish is the big world that takes ages to travel through, lots of trash mob fights, endless respawns, lots of junk loot to sort through with merchants, respawns back at town and repeating the same thing, playing a single character while a party around you does stuff like tanking/healing without you, etc...

What makes it a bad version of this is the fact that all of those things are demonstrably worse than other older games. You only think this shitty Nintendo experience is good because you have no frame of reference. Meme at me all you want, it doesn't change that fact.

Makes sense. I mean, most of these specific points would apply to games like Wizardry and the Gold Box games, but yes it's because everyone but you lacks perspective. You may think it's just a chance to meme, but I know I'm not the only one that legitimately thinks this is a moronic line of criticism, whatever your thoughts on the game.

Anyway, this should really go in the thread about the first game unless you have something relevant about the upcoming sequel. It won't make it any less retarded, but it will at least be in the appropriate thread.

Fucking guy couldn't even get that right.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Have you played the Sorcerer? It's literally holding 1 button and the world explodes...

9 times out 10 you get killed while you're holding that button. It's hard AND boring.

Only hard with the bug that causes the Inflection augment to have the opposite effect, doubling damage received while casting a spell rather than halving it, which was introduced in Dark Arisen and kept in the PC version until finally being patched in December 2017.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

On the topic of world size: EQ1 and early WoW had a relatively low level of detail. An environment artist might plop down a generic prefab house, toss some furniture and a carpet in it, maybe add a few candles and dinner plates, place a light source, and then move on. Maybe spent 10 or 20 minutes max on it. So artists could churn out large swathes of play area in a single day. Molten Core was thrown together within one week and it looks like it.

Nowadays, if you're laying down more than $30 for a 3D game, we expect a certain level of detail and polish. No blatantly copy pasted prefab houses. The artists are instructed to make tilesets that break up a house into hundreds of different pieces like a dozen different door frames, a dozen different corner pieces, etc, that can be combined into unique buildings. Building a single house now takes a lot of time. And then there is the time spent placing different light sources and trying to get everything to look just right. An environment artist might only make a few houses for a city in a day's work. So having relatively less play area in exchange for higher quality areas is understandable. Unless you're a game dev behind a billion doar game franchise like WoW (after it exploded) or Skyrim, in which case there is no excuse as to why you can't hire enough environment artists so you can have large swathes of playable area AND high level of detail, handcrafted environments.

 

[gaussgunner]

Have you played the Sorcerer? It's literally holding 1 button and the world explodes...

9 times out 10 you get killed while you're holding that button. It's hard AND boring.

Only hard with the bug that causes the Inflection augment to have the opposite effect, doubling damage received while casting a spell rather than halving it, which was introduced in Dark Arisen and kept in the PC version until finally being patched in December 2017.

I might still have that version, don't think so, I just don't like playing high-level spellcasters in this game. Hopefully they will improve them in the sequel, not just spam more flashing colors and shit.

 

[anvi]

On the topic of world size: EQ1 and early WoW had a relatively low level of detail. An environment artist might plop down a generic prefab house, toss some furniture and a carpet in it, maybe add a few candles and dinner plates, place a light source, and then move on. Maybe spent 10 or 20 minutes max on it. So artists could churn out large swathes of play area in a single day. Molten Core was thrown together within one week and it looks like it.

Nowadays, if you're laying down more than $30 for a 3D game, we expect a certain level of detail and polish. No blatantly copy pasted prefab houses. The artists are instructed to make tilesets that break up a house into hundreds of different pieces like a dozen different door frames, a dozen different corner pieces, etc, that can be combined into unique buildings. Building a single house now takes a lot of time. And then there is the time spent placing different light sources and trying to get everything to look just right. An environment artist might only make a few houses for a city in a day's work. So having relatively less play area in exchange for higher quality areas is understandable. Unless you're a game dev behind a billion doar game franchise like WoW (after it exploded) or Skyrim, in which case there is no excuse as to why you can't hire enough environment artists so you can have large swathes of playable area AND high level of detail, handcrafted environments.

This game's locations are more boring and empty than a good MMO. And as I've said EQ had a tiny budget and tiny team. There is no excuse for having such bland empty worlds. The only reason they get away with it is because the players have no frame of reference.

 

[Zombra]

This game's locations are more boring and empty than a good MMO. And as I've said EQ had a tiny budget and tiny team. There is no excuse for having such bland empty worlds. The only reason they get away with it is because the players have no frame of reference.

Seriously dude, you're not the only person on the Codex who played EverQuest. Just because you were 12 when it came out and you can't let go of your childhood is not an excuse to stink up the rest of the forum with your persistent farting about how perfect it is. It's embarrassing, and just as off topic as the GD posters who try to make every game about politics. You know no other game will ever measure up in your mind to your memories of mommy. You know it. You keep saying the same repetitive shit in every thread about any other game.* So why do you keep hurting yourself looking elsewhere? THe jammo forujam is noth hard to find >>>>>>>>>>>>> just go there and fucking stay there.

*Hmmm loves repetitive behavior, loves MMOs .... there's a joke in there too but I'll let you figure it out yourself.

 

[Jrpgfan]

You only think this shitty Nintendo experience is good because you have no frame of reference. Meme at me all you want, it doesn't change that fact.

Nintendo first party games are anything but repetitive and games like Mario and Zelda always bring novel gameplay mechanics with each new installment.

 

[HereticGuy]

There is no excuse for having such bland empty worlds

Gransys (the main world of Dragon's Dogma) was extremely static, yeah. You always counter the same enemies at the same exact locations (except some day / night differences). Having no random encounters, no believable world economy (no traveling caravans / agriculture / animal husbandary...), no rangers in wilderness who tries to fend off creatures / bandits from attacking to main roads etc... It was a barebones of a "world".

But, Bitterblack Island (expansion pack of the game) did something smart; Capcom played to the game's strength. A somewhat linear dungeon crawling with solid enemy encounters, nice level design and arguably the best action rpg combat ever coded. I've always wanted to play a third person Diablo 1 without casino-slot machine type of item drops. So that expansion pack satisfied me (altough Diablo's more grounded Judeo-Chrstian theme is far superior).

So if you just played the main game and disliked it; give a second chance with the expansion pack. In my opinion, it is much better than the vanilla game.

 

[anvi]

jk lol

 

[anvi]

All of you who emoji me and reee at my comments without being able to make any argument for or against anything, are worthless fucking pieces of shit. And you know it too, that's why you are butthurt at me. It's part butthurt, part jealousy. You sad fucks.

 

[mediocrepoet]

All of you who emoji me and reee at my comments without being able to make any argument for or against anything, are worthless fucking pieces of shit. And you know it too, that's why you are butthurt at me. It's part butthurt, part jealousy. You sad fucks.

Or perhaps it's just the complete inability to take you seriously at this point. Your points are so dumb, I actually thought you were trolling.

"People keep praising the pawn system but they just keep saying repetitive stuff like wolves hunt in packs! Everquest had chat where people would say unique things all the time! Look how superior this ancient MMO is to your silly Japanese ARPG. What now, DD fans!? Durrrr....."

"Everquest made you stare at a spellbook to regenerate mana, to simulate the complete boredom of being a wizard. Mario Kart doesn't even have mana or spells! What a sad shit game. You guys should play MMOs to see what gaming could be!"

Piss off, you butthurt faggot. And if you won't, at least post in the proper thread.