Capcom Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

[Lizard]

I found the first time you fight a drake more exciting than Grigori. The first drake fight actually felt dangerous with him wiping pawns or mind controlling them, trying to position correctly to knockdown the drake without getting thrown around too much. Once you figure it out it is easy, but it is fun the first couple times. By the time I was done with all the running around/qte bs I was pretty much already tired of the Grigori fight; just jump slashing, with a couple arcs, and the ballista when he was flying.

Anyone here try out DD Online when that was running? Feels kinda bad missing out on that.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

RPGs have this notion of classes or roles, where you get to play the role that you want. I chose to play a fighter because I wanted to play a swordsman. If I had wanted to use magic, I would've rolled a mage or a sorcerer.

Good RPG's also have this notion that classes should have both strengths and weaknesses
That means while your Swordsman might have a easy time dealing with X, he will not be as good as a mage to deal with Y
"Choice & Consequence" in it's purest mechanical form

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I like the fighter playstyle in DD, but I would argue that they are gimped power-wise compared to other vocations. E.g. assassin and warrior both have faster growing strength/attack power, and more versatility (bow and ranged for assassin, jumping attacks for both, etc. And ranged vocations can just spam shit, which makes combat much easier.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I like the fighter playstyle in DD, but I would argue that they are gimped power-wise compared to other vocations. E.g. assassin and warrior both have faster growing strength/attack power, and more versatility (bow and ranged for assassin, jumping attacks for both, etc. And ranged vocations can just spam shit, which makes combat much easier.

Fighters have moves with a lot of iframes, perfect blocking mechanics, etc. that other classes don't get. Play the other classes and/or try not being terrible before making these sorts of judgments.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I like the fighter playstyle in DD, but I would argue that they are gimped power-wise compared to other vocations. E.g. assassin and warrior both have faster growing strength/attack power, and more versatility (bow and ranged for assassin, jumping attacks for both, etc. And ranged vocations can just spam shit, which makes combat much easier.

Fighters have moves with a lot of iframes, perfect blocking mechanics, etc. that other classes don't get. Play the other classes and/or try not being terrible before making these sorts of judgments.

This is why you are an idiot, cause you always talk about stuff you don't know anything about. You see, I did play a bit with other vocations, and they are definitely easier than a fighter, though I prefer the fighter's playstyle.

Yeah, fighters have blocking mechanics, which I love. But you know what, while you are trying to land a perfect block (or some other reactive move) against a horde of skeletons or a horde of saurians or an enraged chimera or whatever, the other vocations can just spam easy ranged attacks, or skill-less melee attacks (like that dagger assassin skill with infinite parry window). Hence my point.

 

[Saark]

This is why you are an idiot, cause you always talk about stuff you don't know anything about. You see, I did play a bit with other vocations, and they are definitely easier than a fighter, though I prefer the fighter's playstyle.

How did you manage to do that, considering you were almost bragging about getting to Grigori at a low level? How did you experience the entire game, and all its vocations and intricacies of each specialization, while staying low enough level to get a prolapsed rectum from entering BBI?

 

[mediocrepoet]

This is why you are an idiot, cause you always talk about stuff you don't know anything about. You see, I did play a bit with other vocations, and they are definitely easier than a fighter, though I prefer the fighter's playstyle.

How did you manage to do that, considering you were almost bragging about getting to Grigori at a low level? How did you experience the entire game, and all its vocations and intricacies of each specialization, while staying low enough level to get a prolapsed rectum from entering BBI?

This is why you are an idiot. You have more than a passing familiarity with game mechanics, rather than an unending well of REEEEE! and tears.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

This is why you are an idiot, cause you always talk about stuff you don't know anything about. You see, I did play a bit with other vocations, and they are definitely easier than a fighter, though I prefer the fighter's playstyle.

How did you manage to do that, considering you were almost bragging about getting to Grigori at a low level? How did you experience the entire game, and all its vocations and intricacies of each specialization, while staying low enough level to get a prolapsed rectum from entering BBI?

I love how you can't answer any direct questions, make any actual points in an argument, but just show up to say something stupid when my attention is directed at someone else.

But since I am so nice, I will explain this to you. I played as an assassin and some other vocations for a bit during earlier play-throughs, nothing to do with this one. Mind blown...

 

[Saark]

Maybe it's because there are no questions worth answering. The only question you asked was a dumb one, mainly, whether its alright for a class like a fighter to struggle more with a massive fucking dragon, than ranged classes. Yes, I absolutely think that's okay, considering fighter also deals with other enemies much better than those ranged classes. That's what makes the game enjoyable, the fact that some enemies you can "style" on if your vocation and the players proficiency with it allow you to do so, while other fights are a bit of an uphill battle. Pawns exist to make up for the weaknesses, at least partially. That's not to say that you can't have a great time as a fighter, once you utilize the tools the game gives you, and demolish Grigori or any other boss in satisfying fashion.

I am sorry to hear that you do not possess the knowledge nor proficiency to do exactly that, and I fully understand why this creates a frustrating experience for you. I'm sure From Software will soon release another game where all you do is parry-counter and dodge-roll, which should be more up your alley. Don't worry, there's plenty of people on Resetera or neogaf who believe those games to actually be RPGs, so you can still call yourself an expert in RPG Games.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

You misunderstood the question. Even though I stated it quite clearly. So let me state it again, in simpler terms (just for you):

The actual question was, if you consider me saying that Grigori fight was badly balanced for a fighter a sign of being butthurt, then where do you draw the line as far as being butthurt goes? Are people allowed to criticize games at all, without being labeled butthurt? Point out anything they didn't like about a game? Or maybe in your world one is only allowed to be a mindless shill? I am genuinely curious.

Cause see, my problem with people like you is that I didn't even come to say anything bad in particular about DD at that time. I just found the fight annoying on my vocation at the time, and it's fine if people disagree or point out why it wasn't annoying for them, but people like you (or mediocre poet or some other placeholder moron), who instantly take offense when anyone says anything bad about a game they like, and begin labeling any criticism, whether legitimate or not, as being "butthurt" or "get gud" or whatver, that's the part that's kinda annoying about fanboys. Just my two cents, bre.

 

[Black Angel]

I love DD and have played it since release on PS3 (that version was shit because the framerate was often sub-20), but I'm one of the few fans who isn't crazy about BBI. I much prefer the base game.

However, I do understand its appeal and why most people think it's the best part of the game. It's a great dungeon crawl.

Yeah, same for me on the PS3. I think BBI is a well designed dungeon and it's nice to dive in a bit to grind for a few extra levels, but I didn't feel so drawn in that I needed to complete it. I explored a bit and had some fun and then decided to go back and complete the game so I could retire with my true love of Mercedes Marten...

and still got stuck with the duchess. Come on game, if you are going to stick me with a romance option I didn't want, you could at least have stuck me with Madeleine.

If you're someone who cared even in the slightest about a video game's narrative aspect, then BBI is the base game's narrative twisted and turned up to eleven. They give you a whole new scenario based on what happens when someone wished to go *against* the Cycle of Eternal Return, and it's not just something they tell you in a few lines; they even changed the dungeon's dynamic for when you attempt it the second time around, up until the last boss which gained an entirely new phase.

 

[mogwaimon]

Anyone here try out DD Online when that was running? Feels kinda bad missing out on that.

DDO is the kind of retardo x72 multi-hit combo! that DD isn't. Even the slowest DDO class will overload the screen with damage blips way beyond anything you'll ever do in DD. It's not so bad, the art is incredible and it's more involved than the typical MMO, but it's just not the same subgenre.

Dragon's Dogma and Amalur are two of the 3rd-person brawlers I really wish could be played in coop, and the fact that DD has a tedious MMO variant and Amalur was initially promotional material for an MMO is just twisting the knife.

If you're itching for games somewhat close to Dragon's Dogma in coop, try War in the North, The Cursed Crusade, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, or Vindictus. The comparison is mostly driven by the bare definition (3rd-person action-"RPG") so don't expect too close a match. Vindictus does have a dedicated grapple key with environment-sensitive throws like slamming enemies into walls, although it does suffer from MMO feature bloat.

The number of coop games in that subgenre is so tiny that you have to include mediocre outings like BG: Dark Alliance, The First Templar and Fable 3. I'd happily include the Souls games too if their coop system wasn't such a mess.

And of course, if what you want out of a coop DD is fighting big monsters together, try Monster Hunter and Dauntless.

well I would imagine very strongly that there is a group of people out there working on getting a certain Monster Hunter MMO back up and running that was shut down around the same time as DDO. I'm certain there's got to be another group of people secretly working on one for DDO. For christ's sake there's even Dragon Ball Online private servers out in English now and I hadn't heard of that game here in the west in over ten years I think. Granted there's a ton more Dragon Ball fans than Dragon's Dogma but at the same time 99% of western fans probably don't even remember that game even exists so...yea. Point is it'll get revived...eventually. Just gotta be patient. Hopefully Dogma 2 will be out by then though, kek

 

[Saark]

Cause see, my problem with people like you is that I didn't even come to say anything bad in particular about DD at that time. I just found the fight annoying on my vocation at the time, and it's fine if people disagree or point out why it wasn't annoying for them, but people like you (or mediocre poet or some other placeholder moron), who instantly take offense when anyone says anything bad about a game they like, and begin labeling any criticism, whether legitimate or not, as being "butthurt" or "get gud" or whatver, that's the part that's kinda annoying about fanboys. Just my two cents, bre.

I don't even care about the game. I had a great time with it, and I'd certainly like to see a sequel for it, but it's not like I think its a great game. It's a diamond in the rough.

I just happen to browse the thread in the hopes of seeing a sequel announcement, but instead of the regular talk about the game, I saw someone being butthurt about how unfair it is and how BBI is just badly designed. That butthurt lasted for the better part of the week, and almost 10 pages, and normally I don't care but your insistence on having "plenty of experience with difficult games" and then citing Dark Souls, just made me wanna tilt and troll you. Around these roads, you best be careful Arisen.

 

[Lizard]

DDO is the kind of retardo x72 multi-hit combo! that DD isn't. Even the slowest DDO class will overload the screen with damage blips way beyond anything you'll ever do in DD. It's not so bad, the art is incredible and it's more involved than the typical MMO, but it's just not the same subgenre.

Dragon's Dogma and Amalur are two of the 3rd-person brawlers I really wish could be played in coop, and the fact that DD has a tedious MMO variant and Amalur was initially promotional material for an MMO is just twisting the knife.

If you're itching for games somewhat close to Dragon's Dogma in coop, try War in the North, The Cursed Crusade, Hunted: The Demon's Forge, or Vindictus. The comparison is mostly driven by the bare definition (3rd-person action-"RPG") so don't expect too close a match. Vindictus does have a dedicated grapple key with environment-sensitive throws like slamming enemies into walls, although it does suffer from MMO feature bloat.

Thanks for the recommendations bro. Sucks to hear about DDO being so different, some of the monsters look really cool in the screenshots. Would be cool if they had a separate team rebalance it for offline/coop, like SQEX did with their DQ MMO.

War in the North has been sitting in my steam library forever lol. I used to play some Vindictus, great combat, amazing what they pulled off with source engine. More action games should have grappling moves in them, and using the environment. Again, if they ever do an offline/coop version I'm there. I doubt it though, since it is still going. Never heard of Cursed Crusade. Played Dark Souls, it was good. Haven't been in the mood to play the sequels though.

I mainly just want more games where I can play a badass full plate armored warrior wielding a twohander, that can dish it out as well as he takes it. You take what you can get though. :/ Games like Dragon's Dogma where every class archetype is fun are rare. Usually either everyone is just kinda alright/bland, or one class type gets way more attention. Seems like most rpgs are designed by magic lovers. Oh well, at least we know DD2 is coming. Hopefully they give us more tools/weapons: throwing weapons, polearms, nets, also stuff like the chain hooks from Vindictus were cool. Oh and more than 3 skillslots for warrior damnit!

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I just happen to browse the thread in the hopes of seeing a sequel announcement, but instead of the regular talk about the game, I saw someone being butthurt about how unfair it is and how BBI is just badly designed. That butthurt lasted for the better part of the week, and almost 10 pages, and normally I don't care but your insistence on having "plenty of experience with difficult games" and then citing Dark Souls, just made me wanna tilt and troll you. Around these roads, you best be careful Arisen.

Sounds like you are deflecting. The bottom line is, there was no one being butthurt or anything else except you and the other fanboys, and then you were the ones who actually got butthurt, and started crying about how this game has no flaws.

And then Porky put you back in your place.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

where do you draw the line as far as being butthurt goes?

On the butt, where else? Is this some kind of trick question?

 

[Grimlorn]

I like the fighter playstyle in DD, but I would argue that they are gimped power-wise compared to other vocations. E.g. assassin and warrior both have faster growing strength/attack power, and more versatility (bow and ranged for assassin, jumping attacks for both, etc. And ranged vocations can just spam shit, which makes combat much easier.

Fighters have moves with a lot of iframes, perfect blocking mechanics, etc. that other classes don't get. Play the other classes and/or try not being terrible before making these sorts of judgments.

This is why you are an idiot, cause you always talk about stuff you don't know anything about. You see, I did play a bit with other vocations, and they are definitely easier than a fighter, though I prefer the fighter's playstyle.

Yeah, fighters have blocking mechanics, which I love. But you know what, while you are trying to land a perfect block (or some other reactive move) against a horde of skeletons or a horde of saurians or an enraged chimera or whatever, the other vocations can just spam easy ranged attacks, or skill-less melee attacks (like that dagger assassin skill with infinite parry window). Hence my point.

Should have been an Assassin. Stop whining that a game is shit because you played a class you didn't like or it had a bad class. I wouldn't have liked playing a Warrior waiting for my one shot attack to charge all game long. Doesn't mean the game as a whole is shit. You also don't need range as an Assassin. Climbing on enemies and using thousand kisses with daggers or the skewer attack with a sword, is perfectly fine for eyeballs, heads, or hearts of mobs.

 

[Rafidur]

Assassin really feels like a less fun magic archer with a counter stapled on.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Assassin really feels like a less fun magic archer with a counter stapled on.

That's interesting. I don't really agree with that since MA's moves are generally autotargeting and work more like magic with a first person aiming reticule (and then dagger moves). Assassin is more like strider that can use a sword and/or shield if they want to and has invulnerability counters whether using sword or dagger.
Even though they can use a sword and shield, their moves are still more "stridery" than "fightery".

Ironically, outside of that, if you develop their physical attack stat, striders are arguably a better assassin than assassins due to the helm/skull/brain splitter line of moves that no other class gets.

 

[Black Angel]

Assassins basically allows Fighters to gain access to a playstyle otherwise exclusive to the Striders, and vice versa. Might not seem very exciting considering that Mystic Knights aren't basically Fighters with magickal spells or Magick Archers aren't basically Striders with magickal spells, but perhaps the fact that Assassins don't have access to any kinds of flashy spells is probably a challenge in and of itself, and might be intriguing to some people.

I do love the counter moves of Assassins, I just love parries in general.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Assassins basically allows Fighters to gain access to a playstyle otherwise exclusive to the Striders, and vice versa. Might not seem very exciting considering that Mystic Knights aren't basically Fighters with magickal spells or Magick Archers aren't basically Striders with magickal spells, but perhaps the fact that Assassins don't have access to any kinds of flashy spells is probably a challenge in and of itself, and might be intriguing to some people.

I do love the counter moves of Assassins, I just love parries in general.

The counter moves are great, if OP. It's also fun running around with a sword and bow. They're the only class that can do that particular combination.

 

[Matador]

I'm curious about what fellow codexers think about potential Coop in DD2. Would it harm the formula or would it be great?

I like the idea in theory, but don't know if it would translate well into practice. With long charge classes, at least would have some interesting team tactics, but I guess encounters would need some tuning.

At the very least they should improve pawn AI, or at least improve reactivity to player orders and remove the dynamic inclinations. Just let the player buy and place slots for the wanted actions. Maybe some basic gambits, simpler than FFXII, but on that spirit.

 

[Reinhardt]

I'm curious about what fellow codexers think about potential Coop in DD2.

You mean princess carry some fag and drop him from the cliff?

 

[Siveon]

DD2 coop could work if the co-op partner can also use a pawn.

I also am for a system like gambits, or just some way to command units rather than give them vague suggestions. Personally it would be cool if you could switch between units at any time, maybe establish a new bit of lore on the connection between pawn and arisen.

That way you could set up spells, go back to fighting, or switch to the archer to take down a flying enemy yourself. Best of all worlds.

 

[Black Angel]

Yeah, FFXII's gambit-style party mechanics would probably fit well in a theoretical sequel of DD where you get to also control your pawn(s). Honestly, I couldn't see anything going wrong with this, unless they somehow couldn't implement a gambit system that's at least as functional and competent as FFXII's....